Let's for a second say a united states of Europe happens. Which it won't, but feck it lets just go with it.
That such a bad thing for you?
That would be worse than what's currently happening yeah?
Brexit related judicial reviews: Supreme Court | Judgment: Prorogation was unlawful
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Let's for a second say a united states of Europe happens. Which it won't, but feck it lets just go with it.
That such a bad thing for you?
That would be worse than what's currently happening yeah?
That's because the emphasis has been about leaving with a deal. If we cannot leave without a deal, it'll be on the EU's terms which will be terrible for us, great for them.
But I'm just curious, because you say you'd vote leave again, yet everything you said back in 2016 is clearly not true. You can't get these free trade agreements with everyone else, you can't negotiate the lovely deal with the EU you thought you would, you're clearly not as important to the EU as you thought you were. Immigration won't stop etc. etc.
So despite all of these things you thought were surely going to happen back in 2016 clearly not going to happen now, you'd still vote to leave again, because.. um.. United States of Europe?
Funnily enough I didn't see any mention of that in your posts in 2016.
Leaving without a deal would be an utter fecking disaster.
How can you not see that?
I cannot fathom how anyone who voted to leave back then can see what's happened since and say they'd vote leave again.
Would the British people vote for a federal Europe?
This would be significant in vote.
Incredible that people still just don't understand how things like this work. It makes you wonder how people can be so entrenched in their view of leave being best for us when they don't even understand the workings of such major parts of the processes.
What on earth are you on about?
I try really hard not to generalise people but I'm convinced the vast majority of leave voters had no idea what they were voting for. They were lied to by the leave campaign and fell for it.
If they didn't vote for it then it wouldn't happen, assuming they stayed a member.Why are you so concerned with a United States of Europe when you just said yourself that it would be rejected by member states?
It means that the only people who know what was said to the Queen are the 3 Stooges, the Queen and her staff and none of them have repeated what was said.
They can't say if he misled her or not unless they know what was said in the meeting.
Of course it is.
A deal with the EU is simply for our mutual benefit. We would get a deal, but it wouldn't be the end of the world if we didn't.
We didn't leave. That's quite a big factor to take into consideration, yes?
You'll find it if you dig deeper.
Why are you so concerned with a United States of Europe when you just said yourself that it would be rejected by member states?
I didn't say that.
What do you mean by ' a deal '
The EU cleverly trapped May into saying they couldn't even start to discuss a Trade Agreement ( is that what you mean by ' deal ' ? ) until a Withdrawl Agreement was agreed and implemented, and then put conditions into the Withdrawl Agreement which they knew would be unacceptable to the Pro-Brext groups in the UK parliament.
So the UK is trapped in never-never land from now until....until....Feck knows when....And at a cost of £1.3 billion per month.
I doubt many at all will change their vote.
Which conditions?
I don't think there is a majority to stand behind an interim leader. If nobody could form a government it would go to a general election and we would leave the EU with no deal while parliament was shut down for the election.
You didn't answer my question. It's quite clear none of those things you thought would happen will happen - so why vote leave again?
Do the UK wouldn't reject it? Or would they? Yes/No.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalisation_of_the_European_Union
It's obviously complicated but the EU could already be called a Federation in many respects, and of course 'ever greater union' is far from an unknown phrase. From the link the French wanted the EEC to actually be called a Federation, but bowed to the British and changed it to Community.
Personally I think the expansion and inclusion of many more states, with more to come, means the EU is at about at the high point of union and won't go much further, but the UK leaving could make a difference to that, and I could be totally wrong in any event.
Think of all that lovely money that could be going to the NHS right now
I can't imagine, after the last three years' worth of shenanigans from the Anti-Brexit Groups,
that one single Pro-Brexi voter would change his / her vote.
The so-called Irish Backstop.
What has happened since to change leavers minds?
The only concern is uncertainty, because parliament are insisting on a deal, and the EU are only offering a shit deal.
The backstop is nothing to the EU. They will concede this in the coming weeks in order to re-heat May's deal.
Even with the backstop it's still a shit deal and will be voted down in parliament.
Just like back in 2016 they were going to give you a nice cushy deal!
Always nice for the Leave voters to show up and prove they still don't understand what's going on every now and again.
The leave campaign being fined for lying about reasons to leave? Like the NHS funding stats on buses.
The 3 years of utter chaos.
Government officials saying a no deal brexit would lead to fresh food and medicine shortages?
I think people voted to leave because they felt ignored by the Government and the media and they thought voting to leave would do something about it.
They were lied to.
want to place a side bet?
Don't bet against ignorance.
Not sure I want any of this current lot of MP's organising anything that affects my life to be honest. They have all shown themselves to be completely self-obsessed and have no regard for the people who voted them in.
The EU were never going to give us everything we wanted, otherwise it would be regarded as a pointless institution.
The Irish backstop issue is nothing to them, which is why we'll see them concede this if Boris is allowed to push his do or die agenda for Oct 31st departure (seems unlikely now).
It would still be a ridiculously good deal for the EU, but be bad for us.
The backstop was a British proposal, not one tabled by the UK or Ireland.
Quite scary actually. Just proves the point that there can’t be another referendum. Brexit has to go through one way or another.
You keep saying this, but they're quite clearly not going to concede on the backstop.
Yeah me neither. Don't trust the vast majority of them.
If there was a 2nd referendum I have a horrible feeling Leave would win again though . You can't underestimate people's stupidity.
Once perhaps; not gonna happen again.
As one of the 17.4M, it's always nice to drop in on you guys now and again.
Congratulations on your degree and subsequent career.
The primary reason I voted to remain was that I could only see our fragile economy being adversely affected by leaving. It had only begun to recover from the global financial crisis and the very last thing we needed was further uncertainty and instability.
Like it or not, we are competing in a global economy and the EU is in a much more advantageous position to negotiate trade deals.
You are quite right. The referendum was a disaster of the highest order. Self inflicted damage which many people will pay for with jobs or lower standard of living.
I hear leavers complaing that the majority of parliament are remainers. Hardly a surprise given that they should understand the issues better than most.
Lastly. I am appalled at the shameful behaviour of Boris Johnson. He has treated parliament and the Queen with utter distain.
He needs to show some humility and respect for the electorate. We are not all as stupid as he so obviously thinks.
The last few pages are all the evidence ever needed that the general public are too stupid and ignorant for a referendum to ever be a good idea.
You know that and I know that....But the EU also knew that including it in a WDA would get the WDA voted down in the UK Parliament and the UK then would still be trapped in the EU.
You're absolutley right....
Ultimatley, they have been lied to by the Politicians who said ' We will leave the EU if that's what you vote for '
Strangely enough, people believed that.
It's scary to honour the democratic will of the people?
Who really cares what he thinks or says. He is an idiot of the highest order.