what are you rolling your eyes for?
Brentan Rodgers
- Thread starter The Neviller
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what are you rolling your eyes for?
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I can't recall a single manager in a title race that's literally had only one tactic for an entire season.
I can't recall you being someone so prone to hyperbole. Shame.
Kevin Keegan says hi.
This is genuine. They've played the same way all year, and when it's not worked, they've been completely unable to do anything about it every single time. He's been heralded as some sort of genius, yet his Plan A is "score loads in the first half", with absolutely no care given on how to see out a match, or any form of Plan B in sight when Plan A doesn't work. Tonight was an extreme example, but all season they've relied on first-half/first hour leads to see them through matches. They've 'lost' a staggering number of second halves this season, especially when compared to City and Chelsea. He's done a great job putting them where they are, but he's still looked clueless tactically.
Obviously I'm being slightly hyperbolic, I just think people have brushed a lot under the rug this season regarding his tactics because they've played entertaining football. Until tonight, there's been very little criticism of the fact that they tend to burn out after about an hour, and that their defense has looked shoddy all season. Had they nicked a 4th tonight, it might have been the same story again.
To be fair, I was about 4 when he was around.
How do you think they have sustained a title challenge with 1) a squad clearly worse than every one of their rivals and 2) the most tactically inept manager to ever be involved in a title challenge
Because the tactic has worked for a lot of the season. However, once people suss it out, they fall apart. That's what's happened over the last few games, and it's finally cost them. They also wouldn't have been able to play as they have all season had they been in either European competition because their players wouldn't have had the energy to do it twice a week.
They nearly ballsed it up against City and got saved by a lucky winner. They did balls it up against Chelsea. They nearly ballsed it up against Norwich, and they ballsed it up again tonight. There was no good reason to play like they have been against Chelsea, yet they did and it cost them because of all the space they leave. There was no good reason for them to keep playing like they have been once Palace pulled one back, but they did. When required, Rodgers has been too afraid or too clueless to try anything else because he only knows one way to make Liverpool play.
They've scored 99 goals this season, with 75 of them coming in the first hour. They've conceded 49; 37 in the last hour, 29 in the second half, and 21 in the final half hour. They rely on scoring enough early for the ones they concede late not costing them the game. Their whole game plan is literally one massive gamble on scoring early. When they don't score early, they generally don't win.
As I said, tonight was an extreme example showing up the tactic. They went shit or bust for the first hour and got themselves 3-0 up. Because Rodgers had them stupidly believing that they could make up the goal difference, they carried on trying to play that way. I can sort of understand that because had they managed to grab a couple more, the goal difference thing was actually looking slightly possible. However, it was monumental stupidity that saw them stay that way until the 2nd goal went in.
3-0 was worth as much to him as 3-2. I reckon his next shite-bite was ready to be spewed forth, talking about winning it right n bollocks.
Whether Liverpool win the league or not, Brendan Rodgers has done a great job. Great coaching to have improved a team that was a laughing stock under Kenny dalglish so much and he has handled suarez very well.
What happened over the last two games was 1) Gerrard slipped and Mourniho parked the bus 2) They pressed on up 3-0 trying to boost their goal differential and got caught out. It really has nothing to do with some failing of his tactics. The "if they were in Europe" speculation cuts both ways because if they were in Europe, they would have invested in a larger squad.
This is nonsense. You can't attribute every loss to tactics unless you are saying that in order for his tatics to be a success, Liverpool must win every match.
Let's do some quick math here.
75% of their goals have come within 66% of the match. 75% of the goals they have conceded have come within 66% of the match. 59% of their goals conceded have come within 50% of the match. 42% of their goals conceded have come within the final 33% of the match.
None of that is statistically significant. I bet you could find similar stats for Norwich in minutes 37-67 or Southampton in minutes 24-84.
Tonight was an example of pressing for more idiotically when there was a minute chance of them ever coming close to making up the goal differential. There is no way anyone could have watched the match and conclude that it was something else.
Definitely. He's had them playing far beyond what they should be and it's quite admirable, if not for their fanbase's arrogance despite having won absolutely nothing yet. He's still got things to learn though. How to shut out a game, how to play more than one style of football, when to go ugly football...
Rodgers has done an excellent job, he deserves a lot of credit for Liverpool's season. He was a couple of results away from the title with a decent to good Liverpool squad. Criticism of him now is bizarre.
True, these are things all the best managers can do. Even guardiola for all the criticism of his tactics did those things regularly at Barcelona in away matches that were tight.
Aye. You could tell how reluctant he is to adapt to a dynamic situation where his 'right way to play' clearly is not working and a defeat is telegraphed, in the wake of the Chelsea result. He kept reiterating that he wouldn't change the style and barking on about Chelsea's transfer legacy. Even Moyes knew our weaknesses this season against Bayern and set us up accordingly.
If Liverpool go into next season with the same gung-ho attitude that has recently been found out by City, Chelsea, Norwich and Palace to mixed results, they'll get battered in Europe and struggle to challenge again.
You can't really claim his tactic was to score lots of goals in the first half. There's a lot more to it than that.
It's better than Norwich's tactic of "only concede one handful of goals".
They needed to batter palace if they were going to stand any chance of winning the title and palace scored because of that. You can't really blame him for that. What's the point of winning 3-0 when you really need 8?
Against chelsea, yes he shouldve played for the draw. Oit wouldve taken chelsea out of their comfort area and made them chase the game in which then pool couldve destroyed them on the counter.
Against chelsea, yes he shouldve played for the draw. Oit wouldve taken chelsea out of their comfort area and made them chase the game in which then pool couldve destroyed them on the counter.
...except they were never going to make up the goal difference. Their tactics showed Rodgers' up. Its 'mind games'. The only thing Liverpool really could do is win their match and put the pressure on City.
1) Worked because they had no plan b
2) Trying to catch the goal difference was a silly naive thing to do and it bit them in the arse. The have been leaky at the back all season.
So I'd say Alex makes a decent point.
Both of those statements are undoubtably true. But they aren't the point that I thought we were discussing. Saying Rodgers is "the most tactically inept manager ever to be involved in a title race" could only be true if he had far and away the best team and stumbled to a disappointing finish. Instead he has taken a team no one expected much of and has them finishing, at worst, in second place. You don't accomplish that by being the most tactically inept manager ever to be involved in a title race. Obviously Rodgers has made mistakes but I think Alex is being way over the top.
How he responds and learns from it, and how he puts that into his players - that will be how you judge him. Shit happens to every manager, player, team but the best are the ones that turn this into opportunity. Fergie did it time and time again but something like this can be the breaking of someone. Will be interesting to see how they cope.
He's an inexperienced manager compared to most other managers in the league. He won't make this mistake again (unless he's been brainwashed completely by Liverpool).
he will learn. think they have finally got themselves a decent manager. Talk he wants to bring in up to 6 players. They will have more games too. They are back alright.
I don't think he's going to get this opportunity of fighting for titles again.
We will get our act together. Chelsea and City will be stronger next year.
We will get our act together. Chelsea and City will be stronger next year.
That's abit harsh on them. They are still top of the league, 1 bad match and suddenly they're falling apart.
It's too early for all that, City are a slip away (knock on wood), and if City lost, all they got to do is win their last match. We have our own collapse. You also have to factor in that this is their first real title shot in 26 years, it's not an easy game to handle with pressure mounting and they're actually 2 match away from winning it.
Some credit where it's due.
I agree with this. However, they could improve too. It's going to be tense for top 4 next season.
He is the Liverpool manager so by definition he is useless at everything and probably tortures small furry creatures for a hobby. And worse than Hilter and everything.
And Keegan wins that award by a mile anyway.
Rodgers has done a brilliant job, particularly with the handicap of that midtable defence. It is true that their high intensity/high press starts sees the drop off physically in the last 20 minutes but often the game has been won by then.
Well, that depends on how they buy. They have a more established first 11 than us. If they purchase a couple of good players, I can see them building to another title challenge next year.
That's football. You always want more.
Every Pool fan in the world would have snapped the hand off 2nd place if asked last summer.
But when you have the title in your hands with 3 games left, starting with a Chelsea fringe team who have no desire to win the game, and you manage to lose, and then go on to blow the title, it has to rankle.
This was their chance to win it. Next year will be a much different experience. Especially if Real Madrid come a calling.
You cannot overlook the advantage having no Europe gave them. Also being out of the other cups quite early.
And again, some pretty good luck with availability of their top players, Suarez's 6match ban at the start withstanding.
I see, I look forward to our squad having this tremendous advantage next season!
This Moyes lark was all part of a greater plan, I now see.
I hope we can also get lucky and go out of the cups early too.
They've looked rubbish in the second half of the match for the third consecutive match. Having no Europe helped them immensely and I suspect that's why we saw some this high energy attacking game from Liverpool. I'm not saying that they'll suddenly turn rubbish this season but they won't be able to carry this high tempo attacking game for next season.
Whilst it's maybe to be expected on a Utd forum, to call Rodgers clueless tactically is just plain weird.
He's done a fantastic job (much, much beyond my expectations) & put Liverpool firmly back on the map. The last couple of games have been hard to swallow, but I can't wait to see how he builds on this next year.
He's done a fantastic job (much, much beyond my expectations) & put Liverpool firmly back on the map. The last couple of games have been hard to swallow, but I can't wait to see how he builds on this next year.
I doubt it, they won't get such a clear cut chance again. City will be better next season, so will Chelsea. I'm also confident that ourselves will finish ahead of liverpool next season, with the right transfers during the summer.
we all laughed at Mourinho saying Liverpool had a massive advantage way back, but turned out to be the case.
Such a bare squad, but way less games than everyone else to get through.
Cannot believe they've thrown this away, barring an even sillier City meltdown.
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