He mentioned something about Gerrard hardly getting a kick when against Keane and Scholes too, perhaps comparing to someone like Veira?
Brentan Rodgers
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He mentioned something about Gerrard hardly getting a kick when against Keane and Scholes too, perhaps comparing to someone like Veira?
I haven't read the book so I don't know, but hardly any teams got a kick against them two.
It's quite easy to say where a player is better than another. I get the feeling you just don't want to say it. Have you never said one player is better than another? Can you not say that Robin Van Persie is a better striker than Victor Anichebe because they fulfill different roles?
What's wrong with Fergie comments? Talking about pure ability and talent Gerrard isn't a 'top top player' that Scholes was. He's a driving force and manages to influence his team-mates due to enormous determination. Is a good striker of the ball and a good passer as well. Scholesy was a level above as his passing was consistently top notch as was his spacial awareness and goalscoring ability. Keano on the other hand was even more determined and moxy than Gerrard, had a good pass on him (both feet) and was extremely intelligent positioning wise.
Fergie's also mostly right on Gerrard not getting a kick against Keane and Scholes together. I fail to remember games he dominated in the middle of the park against those two and I do remember each of Keane and Scholes doing just that. I rate Lampard higher than Gerrard to be honest with you, believe he had/has more in his locker talking merely about ability.
Fergie's also mostly right on Gerrard not getting a kick against Keane and Scholes together. I fail to remember games he dominated in the middle of the park against those two and I do remember each of Keane and Scholes doing just that. I rate Lampard higher than Gerrard to be honest with you, believe he had/has more in his locker talking merely about ability.
You're absolutely right, it is very easy saying one player is better than another. Proving it though is another matter altogether, because it's highly subjective. Especially when you compare 2 talented players such as Scholes & Gerrard, as both are in the top bracket of English talents. Ask me if I think Gerrard is a better player than someone like Anderson & I'll give you a direct answer. The reason I won't give you a straight answer regarding PS & SG, is that I can't, for the reasons already stated in previous posts. It really is as simple as that.
Apologies if this has been covered, but did Rogers really suggest that the reigning champions need ten new players to win the title? Was it a lame attempt at humour?
The reasons you have given have been because they are different kind of players. Which is ridiculous.
Here's a list of the games whereby Gerrard, Keane, & Scholes have all started the match.
17/12/2000 - United 0-1 Liverpool
04/11/2001 - Liverpool 3-1 United
22/01/2002 - United 0-2 Liverpool
02/03/2003 - Liverpool 2-0 United (League Cup Final)
05/04/2003 - United 4-0 Liverpool (Hyypia sent off after 5 mins)
20/09/2004 - United 2-1 Liverpool (Gerrard taken off with broken metatarsal)
15/01/2005 - Liverpool 0-1 United
18/09/2005 - Liverpool 0-0 United
That's 4 victories, 3 defeats, & 1 draw.
So Fergie's not 'mostly right' really is he ?
Well he didn't get much of a kick after that happened.
Danny Murphy was more influential for your lot than Gerrard back in the early 2000's (in those games you listed). Your Cup final was a joke and a massive fluke + Jerzy Dudek. The rest of the results are either in our favour or were hideous affairs that had nothing to do with the quality in the middle.Or both. Keano was done in 2005 and Scholesy had problems with sight, still Gerrard didn't dominate them.
Take Keano away and look what Scholes did to your midfield in 2006 at Old Trafford.
Fergie is not stupid, he'll be first to admit he's faced problems dealing with Henry and probably even more so Anelka, had to design a special role for Phil Neville to deal with Vieira in Keane's absence. I'm sure Lampard gave him more sleepless nights than Gerrard did in his whole career to date.
Take Keano away and look what Scholes did to your midfield in 2006 at Old Trafford.
Fergie is not stupid, he'll be first to admit he's faced problems dealing with Henry and probably even more so Anelka, had to design a special role for Phil Neville to deal with Vieira in Keane's absence. I'm sure Lampard gave him more sleepless nights than Gerrard did in his whole career to date.
Besides, you seem to have developed that special ability to beat us despite not being the better side. Our last league encounter should serve as a great example, will you say in 5 years' time that you won cause your cm dominated ours? We on the other hand seem to struggle to beat you comprehensively. We battered you 3 years in a row at OT now and still won all of those by a mere one goal.
Keane and Scholes didn't play at all in the game in november 2001. Stop making things up. Keane played with a broken foot in 2005, but I see you rather mention that Gerrard was subbed in another game.
We won a few games where we played pretty poorly against Liverpool going back a few more years, from 2008-9 or so. Their turn for the rub of the green, it seems.
The problem is that you are such a humourless and dour bunch of fans. Someone saying a player is brilliant but not one the all time greats has caused every Liverpool fan with an outlet to cry as if SAF had broken Gerrard's leg. People claiming SAF is 'insecure' and 'bitter' because he basically suggested that two players who aren't very disciplined and great strengths don't lay in possession play aren't the answer to England not being able to hold the ball.
Who is really insecure?
Yeah, 06/07 springs to my mind now that was a win
07-08 was a tight affair but we defended brilliantly and once we steadied the ship we looked more accomplished team. That would be that for our luck against them in the last decade.To be fair the majority of their fanbase don't really care and wish injury on everyone on a whim.
No offence, but your fanbase isn't any better on that front. The number of people that wished injury on Thiago for not signing for you was immense, at least in the newbs, anyway.
Am I standing here morally sticking up for United fans?... Didn't think so. It was a bad example wishing injury.. Sticking up for a known racial abuser is another story though.
Your ex-manager started it.
Playing your lot like a fiddle. Brilliant man, brilliant mind, brilliant manager.
Gerrard scored one goal in all of those game and it was a deflection if Beckham.
Not really, even though it woud be still only natural with age, unlike Kenny's deepening retardness.
I've just destroyed your, & Fergie's, point by some cold hard stats, & now you go all Vicky Pollard on me ("yeah but, no but, yeah but")
Tell me. Who set up Murphy's winner at OT in 2002 ? & who won the penalty a couple of years later at OT which Murphy duly converted ? Where exactly where your dynamic duo then ?
Keane & Scholes were part of a fantastic United team, far superior to anything we had back then. Yet it's there in black & white mate. Contrary to what you & Ferguson might have thought, Steven Gerrard more than held his own against both of them. So both of you need to stop talking bollocks.
You've set low standards for yourself if that's destroying one's point. Your little stats have already been proved wrong to some extent and you still won't be able to point at one game that Gerrard dominated.
I've just destroyed your, & Fergie's, point by some cold hard stats
I've just destroyed your, & Fergie's, point by some cold hard stats, & now you go all Vicky Pollard on me ("yeah but, no but, yeah but")
. "Heres a bunch of games and scores.. Yeah have that you mump".Have a word.
Have a word.
Such underhanded behaviour on my part eh ? It's not something anyone on here would have used to back up an argument is it ? Let's just rely on opinions shall we. Much more conclusive after all.
At the end of the day Gerrard isnt even close to being a top,top player. They are the likes of Zidane,RonaldoX2,Messi etc etc.
Gerrard isnt even close.
He isnt any special in the CM role. His best days have come as a second striker or a free role.
Gerrard isnt even close.
He isnt any special in the CM role. His best days have come as a second striker or a free role.
"United fans do it to".... I think I'll trust the greatest manager of our generation over some bell-end on a forum when validating my own personal opinion on those players.
Fergie says 'boo', scouseland goes in to meltdown. Even in retirement he's driving them delirious!
I can't help but think the eulogization of Paul Scholes has gone a bit over the top during his twilight years. I don't remember such hype during the mid-2000s/him ever being considered as one of the top ten players in the world at any point in his career. He was a long standing pillar of a very successful United side, yes - but the difference between him & Gerrard is not as night & day as some would have you think. It's a very open debate for me.
My Liverpool mates say they agree with SAF. But, they think he was a great player at his best, and I think SAF would agree. But, he is not a top, top player, anyone knows that.
Zidane, Scholes, Xavi is top, top players and Gerrard was never in their class. His ability was not as good as them, he relied much on his drive and physic.
Zidane, Scholes, Xavi is top, top players and Gerrard was never in their class. His ability was not as good as them, he relied much on his drive and physic.
Scholes was not on Xavi's level. Keane, now he was a player that was a level up.
He looked lost his last few years. He really did. It's sad to see him this way, to see it end with the whole footballing world attacking him and putting down his legacy.
Hated him but always respected him.
when did this happen?
Winning titles with the head of his cock.
I hope so too. Should be a good read. Even the entire chapter about Liverpool and Ferguson's admiration for their traditions.
And in fairness to Gerrard, he was young when he faced Roy. Would have been a brilliant battle, prime Keane - Prime Vieira - Prime Gerrard.
Yeah, 3 points off winning 7 league titles in a row. Seeing off Chelsea's millions and then seeing off Man City and their millions. Fergie really did look lost. Finishing at the top, going down as the greatest manager of all time. Definitely a typical sad Hollywood ending for Fergie.
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