8/10
Go Brenton!
Go Brenton!
Brentan Rodgers
- Thread starter The Neviller
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Tbh, this is my default position for pretty much everything to do with Liverpool FOOTBALL CLUB
this is why Kuyt was close to legendary status I suppose.You play a player out of position, chances are he'll be unhappy and will perform badly.Rodgers being the arrogant man that he is, never sought to rectify it.Sahin is at a better club so it was his gain and Liverpool's apparently
7/10 The man's a fecking moron. (Rogers, not Brent. Brent is a legend, I just wouldn't want to be managed by him!)
All the nonsense management speak aside, Rodgers is doing a very good job with Liverpool.
Does he? Liverpool is in real danger of not playing international football in the following season. For a club with the possibilities of Liverpool this is simply dissapointing. Without Suarez´ extreme good form, they would have no chance at all to reach the top 6 in this season.
Everything about Rodgers screams mediocrity to me. His treatment of Sahin was a prime example of that.
Lucas definitely looks a yard behind the pace at the moment. Still, he's an intelligent footballer and our midfield isn't the same without him.
He looks a very promising manager, in my opinion. But our defensive frailty is definitely a cause for concern.
He looks a very promising manager, in my opinion. But our defensive frailty is definitely a cause for concern.
They are in pace for 7 more points than last year, they already have a goal differential almost three times better than last year. They're bringing in young talent and shipping out Dalglish's overpaid shit. What more can you expect in year one?
I agree with Eboue BUT i do believe that he overpaid for Allen and the jury is still out on Borini (Injuries has prevented him showing his worth fully though).
However, Sturridge/Coutinho look to be very good signings and next year depending on who our manager is and what happens in the Summer, they could finish ahead of us again. I think we will finish above them this season though.
However, Sturridge/Coutinho look to be very good signings and next year depending on who our manager is and what happens in the Summer, they could finish ahead of us again. I think we will finish above them this season though.
How they would have been this year without Suarez means fecking less than nothing because they have had Suarez.
I think he's a decent manager but Liverpool will remain mid table for a long time.
I definitely agree on Borini but those are exactly the type of signings they need to make. Without Champions League football they can't attract stars so they need to go for promising youth and hope a few pan out.
What, shit signings?
Brendan has spent 50m this season, after their spending of 70m the season before. Surely some improvement is due. Then you compare those numbers to teams around their position (Everton, Wes Brom, Arsenal, and even SPurs), you'll get the better picture.
Sahin is at a better club so it was his gain and Liverpool's apparently
He did rectify it though. He got rid of Sahin & bought a player 4 years younger, who up to now, has been a significantly better player in a Liverpool shirt.
Sahin stated after his move to Dortmund that they are the only club he wants to play for. So this could probably explain his half-arsed attitude whilst playing for Liverpool. Whereas his excuse that nasty old Brendan Rodgers was to blame for his poor form at Liverpool is being taken as gospel by you & few others on here
Coutinho still has a long way to go to prove he's up to the task of being the playmaker we've craved ever since Peter Beardsley was sold over 20 years ago. On the other hand, scoring 2 goals in a 5-1 home romp doesn't mean that Nuri Sahin is back to his best. After all, he looked pretty decent when he scored against Norwich, even though he was played out of position, when we beat them 5-2 earlier on in the season.
My point is that he is spending wisely.
Sadly for us, the money spent by Dalglish actually made us worse. So you can't really heap that upon Rodgers shoulders. It's not as though Kenny had left our new manager with solid foundations is it ? He's had to ship out ageing players like Kuyt, Bellamy, & Maxi. Plus move on failed signings like Adam & Carroll. Only then has he been able to start bringing in players who he feels can do a job for Liverpool.
& anyway. If spending loads of dosh= success/improvement. How do explain QPR being where they are after spending £44 million ?
Unlike Downing who's been played at LB, Henderson who's been played all over midfield, and Enrique who's been played up and down the left flank, Sahin looked disinterested when played in that advanced role. Even if it wasn't his preferred position, 100% application is to be expected.
He also lost a number of senior, important first team players (Bellamy, Kuyt, Maxi) as well as having to shift dead wood (Adam, Carroll, Spearing) who were also first team players. The squad was in a bad way and even after spending £50m we've still had to frequently play youngsters such as Suso, Sterling and Wisdom. That picture can't be ignored either.
He also lost a number of senior, important first team players (Bellamy, Kuyt, Maxi) as well as having to shift dead wood (Adam, Carroll, Spearing) who were also first team players. The squad was in a bad way and even after spending £50m we've still had to frequently play youngsters such as Suso, Sterling and Wisdom. That picture can't be ignored either.
Liverpool have the second highest net spend in the Premier League this season. Rogers net spend this season is actually higher than in the whole of the Daglish reign. The jury is still out on all his signings. Players often hit the ground running after a transfer and then fade. Remember that is exactly what Coutinho did at Inter. I would imagine that they have reduced the wage bill somewhat. Nonetheless I wouldn't say that Rogers is excelling.
Compare to previous regime, yes he is. Compare to other teams around them, no he isn't. £50m (+ 5m Sahin loan) for Borrini, Allen, Assaidi, Coutinho, and Sturridge are hardly 'inspiring'. Whose from those could be a top 4 starter? They are young with some potentials, though.
Spending loads of dosh should equal improvement. I think it's a common trait. If not, it's called failure. How much improvement it makes, is the main question here.
All's not bad from KD's regime. BR still use KD's signings (Enrique, Henderson, and Downing) which are not bad players; and in Suarez, he gets the 2nd best player in the league (even better than RvP, imho). Then BR still inherited core good players in Gerrard, Johnson, Agger, Reina, and Skertel. Adding that with another £50+m war chest, an improvement should be expected.
Read above. Squad wise, BR still inherited a decent one. It's his fault then, that after spending £50+m he's still had to frequently play youngsters.
He did rectify it though. He got rid of Sahin & bought a player 4 years younger, who up to now, has been a significantly better player in a Liverpool shirt.
Sahin stated after his move to Dortmund that they are the only club he wants to play for. So this could probably explain his half-arsed attitude whilst playing for Liverpool. Whereas his excuse that nasty old Brendan Rodgers was to blame for his poor form at Liverpool is being taken as gospel by you & few others on here
But you'd have us believe he moved to a team he didn't want to play for? That's the opposing logic you are going with?
These guys are overrated. Liverpool have finished 6th,7th,8th with a core of these guys the last few years.
Net spend for one season is exceedingly silly. Not to mention that he didn't have many assets to sell off, given the shape of the squad he inherited.
Of course the jury is still out on all of his signings, we're not even a full season in. But the fact that Rodgers is going after promising young players instead of Stewart Downing and Charlie Adam is a major improvement from his predecessor. Their goal differential is better than Spurs, which is a pretty good predictor of future success. They're going to need to get back into the top 4 to attract top players. What is the best way to get top 4, buying 4-5 young talents and hoping 2-3 pan out? Or overpaying vastly for midtable British talent? He's going about it the right way and the results are encouraging for them.
I wanted Sahin at Arsenal and many people on here wanted Sahin at United. It didn't work out but it was still worth a shot. Sturridge could easily be a top four starter, Coutinho as well. Borini and Assaidi haven't done much yet but not every signing works out. Allen is 6 months younger than Cleverley, it would be ridiculous to write him off now.
10/10
Surprised myself
Surprised myself
I largely agree with this. His transfer policy is in-itself a vast improvement on Kenny's madness, there can be little doubt about that. These players will have to come truly good, though – and I'm not fully convinced about anyone of them.
And then there's the Suarez issue. Even if we say for the sake of argument that Brenton knows what he's doing his master plan will be set back drastically if Suarez buggers off this summer – they can't realistically replace him, and so the pressure on the prospects to hit full stride will be even greater. They may get a handsome fee for him, granted, and spend that on further reinforcements, but this will entail further X factors: He is their one unquestionable asset at the moment.
In theory they aren't miles off a CL spot – but that requires further positive development from three or four youngsters, some reinforcements at the back AND Suarez staying. Lots of uncertainties there. I thought at the beginning of the season that he should steer them to 6th at least. If they finish behind Everton again this may not prove anything against Brenton's methods (he's clearly thinking long-term, as he should) but it doesn't look good: The symbolic value of a thing is often more important than its actual value, someone once said.
He's done all right. They obviously are 25 (more now) points worse than United, so he was wrong about that one.
His big challenge is to keep hold of Suarez. Do that and they might climb a couple of places up the table. Lose him, and they will be no better than under KKK.
His big challenge is to keep hold of Suarez. Do that and they might climb a couple of places up the table. Lose him, and they will be no better than under KKK.
He's done a very good job pulling the Liverpool plane out of the nosedive that was caused by Rafa being Rafa and King Kenny's drunken rampage. He's brought in the right players, who are capable of playing the style of football he wants.
However, I don't think he's good enough to get this Liverpool side to reach the goals that their fans are expecting, which is a top 4 finish next season. This isn't a knock on Rodgers at all, but despite the obvious improvements he's made, that squad needs alot more work and it can't be done in one transfer window.
An apt comparison would be them to Arsenal. Both sides squads have got considerably worse over the years, but Wenger is a much better manager and still keeps Arsenal challenging, whereas Liverpool have fallen to midtable. Arsenal lost Van Persie and can still very easily finish in the top 4. If Liverpool lost Suarez this summer, they'd be fecked.
However, I don't think he's good enough to get this Liverpool side to reach the goals that their fans are expecting, which is a top 4 finish next season. This isn't a knock on Rodgers at all, but despite the obvious improvements he's made, that squad needs alot more work and it can't be done in one transfer window.
An apt comparison would be them to Arsenal. Both sides squads have got considerably worse over the years, but Wenger is a much better manager and still keeps Arsenal challenging, whereas Liverpool have fallen to midtable. Arsenal lost Van Persie and can still very easily finish in the top 4. If Liverpool lost Suarez this summer, they'd be fecked.
6 first team players left the club (including the Carroll loan) from a squad that had finished 8th. That's a sizeable overhaul/loss of depth from an already average squad. That's also the reason he's had to play youngsters, because we simply haven't had many other options - especially up until January.
It will be interesting to see what happens if he is there for the Gerrard phase-out. Re-creating the identity of the club will be tough and it is a talking point on United with life after Keane and the way the team has lost some of that edge.
I'd say he really has 2 or 3 seasons left in him at his peak unless he gets molded into a niche role. That is about the concrete timeframe (without contract extension and serious investment into his management) Rogers has to get it right.
Charlie Adam has to be one of the most hilarious signings that Dalglish made. 3/4 of a season and then shipped out. I still remember reading thesis' over how they had got one over United. Not having a go but that really was a terrible signing.
He's done ok, 60/100 for me.
I'd say he really has 2 or 3 seasons left in him at his peak unless he gets molded into a niche role. That is about the concrete timeframe (without contract extension and serious investment into his management) Rogers has to get it right.
Charlie Adam has to be one of the most hilarious signings that Dalglish made. 3/4 of a season and then shipped out. I still remember reading thesis' over how they had got one over United. Not having a go but that really was a terrible signing.
He's done ok, 60/100 for me.
No doubt – but it begs a question or two: Was he too eager to get rid of players that, granted, weren't superb in any way but who had top flight experience and might've done a job as squad players? It's a classic rookie mistake – too dramatic an overhaul. He has had to field youngsters to a large extent, as you say, but that's his choice. Players like Kuyt and Bellamy are seasoned professionals – over the hill, certainly, but that's beside the point when the alternative is to play youngsters who strictly speaking aren't ready yet. They could've put in a shift, as they say. Even Carroll could've done that.
And keeping these players on the books for the crucial first season (for Rodgers) wouldn't have impeded the development of said youngsters in any conceivable way: The old boys (and Carroll) would've been back-up more than anything. Some of his moves are fully understandable (Adam, obviously), whereas others may seem a little rash, perhaps.
Good to see you up here, mate. Great poster.
My humble thanks, chief.
You're a night owl, ain't you, Steve? My excuse is that I used to work nights and just lost all my rhythm - er, biorhythm, that is.
You're a night owl, ain't you, Steve? My excuse is that I used to work nights and just lost all my rhythm - er, biorhythm, that is.
Major players who left on the summer are Kuyt, Carroll, Bellamy, and Adam. KD rarely used Maxi, and Cole, so they don't count first teamers. Those aren't really inspiring players anyway.
Then they are replaced with £50+m war chest, plus players like:
Reina
Doni
Johnson
Skertel
Agger
Carragher
Enrique
Coates
Gerrard
Lucas
Henderson
Suarez
Downing
Shelvey
(Lucas is injured, but still part of the inherited team. And other teams also have injuries as well).
So, if you think getting 6th-7th means BR is doing a good job, I can see from your POV. The scale of this 'good job' is quite big though, from "he doesn't feck up things" - "having a brilliant season".
Imho, Clarke at West Brom, Laudrup at Swansea, and Moyes at Everton are on the middle to upper scale of 'doing a good job"; based on the resource available to them, players bought, and league position. And maybe also AVB at Spurs for their net spend relative to where they are.
So, I'd place BR on the lower scale of "doing a good job". I'm sure he'll get upset upon my rating
.I understand where you're coming from, but it's not as simple as that. Maxi wished to move back to Argentina and Bellamy had family problems (exacerbated by the death of Gary Speed) which meant he wanted to go back to Cardiff. Kuyt also wanted regular first team football, which he wasn't going to get. Those are the three that I would've kept and I believe Rodgers was quoted as saying he wanted at least both Maxi & Bellamy to stay. It was out of his hands though.
I agree on Carroll. Even though I think he's mediocre, we came close to having no striker at all when Borini picked up his first injury. Keeping him would've at least given us a form of backup, although Rodgers was 'guaranteed' another forward in August which we somehow fecked up.
There are others who he could have sold but decided against doing so; Enrique, Downing (and Henderson to some) were hugely out of form/favour with the fans going into this season. Rodgers seems to have completely changed those players' fortunes around.
Major players who left on the summer are Kuyt, Carroll, Bellamy, and Adam. KD rarely used Maxi, and Cole, so they don't count first teamers. Those aren't really inspiring players anyway.
Then they are replaced with £50+m war chest, plus players like:
Reina
Doni
Johnson
Skertel
Agger
Carragher
Enrique
Coates
Gerrard
Lucas
Henderson
Suarez
Downing
Shelvey
(Lucas is injured, but still part of the inherited team. And other teams also have injuries as well).
So, if you think getting 6th-7th means BR is doing a good job, I can see from your POV. The scale of this 'good job' is quite big though, from "he doesn't feck up things" - "having a brilliant season".
Imho, Clarke at West Brom, Laudrup at Swansea, and Moyes at Everton are on the middle to upper scale of 'doing a good job"; based on the resource available to them, players bought, and league position. And maybe also AVB at Spurs for their net spend relative to where they are.
So, I'd place BR on the lower scale of "doing a good job". I'm sure he'll get upset upon my rating
Maxi still made 17 appearances and was a player I'm sure Rodgers would have utilised often. You've forgotten Spearing too, who was a regular starter under Dalglish.
The fact remains that taking 6 first team players out left a few gaping holes in the squad. The £50mish he's spent has been spent largely well in my opinion, and it seems we've plugged the gaps that were formed last summer with better quality than we previously had. Not until January did we completely do that though, and our form has markedly improved ever since. Remember, it's not like Rodgers spent £50m on a squad that was already brimming with talent.
6/7th would be progress, and that's what I wished for at the beginning of the season because we were in absolute skyfall for the last couple of months of 2011/12.
In all honesty this year doesn't matter because Rome wasn't built in a day. We'll slag Brenton off here because that's our job, but 7th isn't really much improvement but at least there's potential and he didn't feck up. He seems to have won over the fans without too many outrageous acts of pandering to the scouser's ala FSW. What really matters is how he does his business this summer and where you end up next year and how the fans react. He's done a good job at keeping everyone on board so far from the players to the fans to the board. A good summer and maybe top 4 next year and he's golden. I think 5th or 6th is more realistic as United/City/Chelsea/Arsenal/Spurs all look a good 2 seasons ahead of you. Everton less so because of the threadbare nature of their squad and the fact that they may lose Moyes if he doesn't sign the contract.
It's actually always a really interesting side story because one place in the league seems to mean so much now for the top 6-7 and there is genuine competition and from City down to you there's only 14 points.
It's actually always a really interesting side story because one place in the league seems to mean so much now for the top 6-7 and there is genuine competition and from City down to you there's only 14 points.
That's interesting - I didn't know that. If that's the case I owe Brenton an apology.
As for Kuyt - I can't really see why he should be a less attractive short-term alternative than Downing: Doing a job out wide, basically. And he would have been a possibility up front too. Then again if he wanted guarantees from the manager - well, he isn't good enough to justify that. And Rodgers obviously didn't plan on having so few striker options at the time.
Strange, that last bit. Who was that "other forward," one wonders? And why didn't it materialize?
Kuyt would be faster in reverse. A player long past being useful.
I really think that he has done a fine job this year. Wasn't expected that Pool will go to Champions this year. He has made some good signings in Sturridge and Coutinho, Suarez is playing much better, some young players he played did good (Sterling and to a lesser degree Suso). Even some of the dead woods are playing much better this season (Henderson and Downing).
Anyway, I don't think that they will finish in top 4 next season too, and things will become more complicated when they lose Suarez (IMO is pretty sure that he will leave next summer if they don't manage to go in Champions).
The problem is that Liverpool really was a midtable club (a term that has been used more as a joke). And unless you have a sugar daddy, it is very difficult returning to Champions, especially in England when we have United that are really a giant club in every way, Chelsea and City that have infinite cash, and Spurs and Arsenal who are well good clubs with good managers and have better players.
Personally, I think that it will be a success for BR if Liverpool manages to finish in top 4 in 2014-2015. But the signs are good and finally I can watch Liverpool without having headaches (a thing that wasn't possible since 2009 when they started they epic fall).
Anyway, I don't think that they will finish in top 4 next season too, and things will become more complicated when they lose Suarez (IMO is pretty sure that he will leave next summer if they don't manage to go in Champions).
The problem is that Liverpool really was a midtable club (a term that has been used more as a joke). And unless you have a sugar daddy, it is very difficult returning to Champions, especially in England when we have United that are really a giant club in every way, Chelsea and City that have infinite cash, and Spurs and Arsenal who are well good clubs with good managers and have better players.
Personally, I think that it will be a success for BR if Liverpool manages to finish in top 4 in 2014-2015. But the signs are good and finally I can watch Liverpool without having headaches (a thing that wasn't possible since 2009 when they started they epic fall).
Aye, perhaps. But the alternative was - and has been, this season - Downing. Hardly an astronomical difference, one might say.
Anyway, if Kuyt made demands, then the matter is clear cut: You don't give guarantees to a player of his kind.
As much of a joke as Downing was last season he's been ok for periods this year and probably has another level or two in him.
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