TBF, at this point, i think it's hard not to copy something from the past. Also, he got really, really close to winning the league last year with a team who on paper should be vastly inferior to what City and Chelsea could field. I don't like him one bit, and i think hes a pompous twat, but hes a good manager, and he sticks to his ideas.
Brentan Rodgers
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TBF, at this point, i think it's hard not to copy something from the past. Also, he got really, really close to winning the league last year with a team who on paper should be vastly inferior to what City and Chelsea could field. I don't like him one bit, and i think hes a pompous twat, but hes a good manager, and he sticks to his ideas.
He does at times get outwitted by his elder, more experienced peers (Mourinho, LVG on Sunday etc). But crucially, he is a manager that has consistently adapted and found solutions when we've been struggling as a team - combine that with his relative youth and I'm confident that he has the tools to turn Liverpool into a side that consistently competes for the top honours, with time.
If they don't get top 4 this season, will his job be at risk?
They could present an envelope from the start of the season with his name in it.
And one for Gerrard too
And one for Gerrard too
If they finish 5th or 6th then they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. That is their level these days. They massively overachieved last season.
I can't see why his job would be at risk.
I think his job will be safe if he fails to get too four unless somebody like Klopp comes available. Doubt Klopp would go there anyways.
Only if someone a lot better is available I'd imagine. It doesn't make any sense to bin him if he can't be replaced properly. Right now it's his team playing to his ideas any new manager would have to take some time to get the team round to his way of playing and get a set of his own players.
I don't think it's likely he'll be sacked.
Well, a wise man once said " If you spend more than £100 million, you expect to be challenging for the league". He challenged for the title last season and then spent more than £100 million. If they finish 5th and don't win the FA cup, it's a very dissapointing season for Liverpool.
Do they really have a choice? not like there are World Class managers queuing up to go to Liverpool.
I think he's quite pragmatic when he can take a step back and assess stuff, switching a formation from one week to another or being aware of certain limitations of players. However, where he still struggles at the moment is game management, I feel. He's not quite capable of exactly pinpointing what may be going wrong and affecting it with subs or re-shuffling during a game, so he struggles to actually affect the outcome of a game once it's ongoing.
That's not huge criticism to be honest, because it must be very hard to assess limitations and what's going wrong in real time, and he might improve at it with time. But he'll definitely need to, because it's quite a big weakness at the moment.
The fun part is that when you suck in the earlier part of the season and then perform to your level or raise it in the later half it is considered as a huge achievement. It becomes a turn around story rather than a disappoinment when compared to the previous season, as it should be.
You'd like to think the owners are realistic, if they finish behind 4 clubs with bigger budgets and revenues it's pretty much par for the course. Also considering they have improved as the season has progressed you could argue that he was bedding in the several new signings and dealing with not having Suarez.
I think he'll be given less leeway next season though and if he's in the same position next November than he was last November I think they'll pull the trigger. Which is a shame for them as fourth should be seen as a big bonus, not something that is expected. Spurs and Liverpool seem to sack managers for finishing 5th or 6th which doesn't really make sense to me. It'd be like Chelsea sacking Mourinho for finishing 3rd last season.
There is no dispute that those 4 clubs have higher revenues, however Spurs and Liverpool are also spending quite a bit in the transfer market. The expectation is for a manager to have the team pull above their weight. Like say Simeone or Klopp.
I am not saying whether it is the right approach or the wrong, but that's the thinking and reason for sacking managers.
They both spend quite a bit, but they've spent it to replace better player's that have left, particularly in Spurs' case. They also can't offer the wages that the four bigger clubs offer, which means they end up paying more in transfer fee's to compensate for lower wages. I believe for instance that Spurs are the only team in the League that has a negative net spend for the past 4 seasons. Liverpool are fourth with around £135m, which to be fair is quite a lot (Arsenal £90m). However every year they give away around £20m in wages.
The only thing I'd say about the likes of Simeone & Klopp is that the success is usually short lived. A crop of quality player's under a top manager will click together and for 3-4 seasons they can compete. However in the medium term the best player's get bought and usually the team falls back to its equilibrium. We are seeing this with Dortmund this year and will probably start to see it with A.Madrid in the next season or two.
They came second last year, sold one player and then spent £120m on new players.
When you spend that sort of money you should be challenging for the title.
That's what Brendan said. I didn't think they had a shot at challenging for the title. Maintaining top four would have been a good season for them given the summers activities.
You're leaving out a lot of other stuff just to suit your agenda here. For starters, we massively overachieved last season. It's possible to do that in a season when the circumstances are there (no European football, we went on an unbeaten run at the right time and scoring for fun), but almost impossible to do it two seasons in a row. It's true we spent a lot of money but not one of the players brought in are capable to replace Suarez and that's what we needed to duplicate a season like last year. If we would've bought someone like Alexis Sanchez for example, a genuine world class player, we would be a lot better off by now, pretty sure of that (although I can't prove it so that's just my gut feeling). We didn't though, and opted to add depth to our team, which we also needed considering we'd be in Europe this year. Going forward, I'm still convinced it was a good thing to do. We've got enough depth now and a very young squad which is only going to improve in the future. Add to that two or three specific players in the summer who are starting eleven material and we're good for the next couple of years, imo.
At the start of the season, you couldn't realistically say we were going to challenge for the title. A top four challenge was the mimimum required though and we're still chasing that objective although it'll be very difficult to achieve now, also thanks to our very poor start of the season. And for the record, United spent more than £120m this summer and aren't exactly challenging for the title either.
Regarding Sanchez, why do you think you missed out on him?
Call it bias but I honestly think he would've joined us if we were London based. His rejection was a huge blow because for the first time in years, it felt like all the ingredients were finally there: Champions League qualification, attractive brand of football, a lot of promising young players and a up and coming coach but it still wasn't enough apparently.. Such a shame because I absolutely love him.
It's bias.
I'm not convinced it ever got as far as him rejecting you. I just don't think you could afford him because you'd already sanctioned deals for a load of overpriced mediocrity.
If he did reject you, it wasn't because he was going to be living a few hours away from London, it was because you sold* the player that made the attractive football and CL qualification possible, and as much as you all love Rodgers, he's not a draw for players.
*couldn't keep hold of because he wanted to leave
Arsene Wenger, for a manager who hasn't won a great deal over the last ten years still has great pulling power for players which Rodgers doesn't yet have with all due respect to him. Location may have played a part, but that hasn't stopped other Latin players moving to the North West.
I think that last year was a moment in time for them. The Suarez influence and a number of players hitting peak form at one time. It was an aberration IMO and not truly reflective of the quality of their players outside of Suarez.
They don't have the scope to buy players good enough to help them compete for the title, they rely more the luck of unearthing the next big thing. They also had to bring in quantity to compete in the Champions League. Unless they hit the mother-load with new signings or existing players kicking on to a large degree (neither happened) then I think they are where they should be right now. Anything beyond that will be over achievement IMO.
He did reject us. Of course we could afford him after we sold Suarez, we went all out for him but he didn't want to come here. As for the "couldn't keep hold of Suarez" part, it's almost impossible to keep Latin-American players if Madrid or Barça come calling. It was inevitable.
We definitely over achieved last season. A lot down to Suarez, but the goals and performances from him and Sturridge had a massive impact on others around them.
Sterling in particular, if you have them 3 on fire and others playing to their maximum then as it showed we scored goals for fun.
Even though defensively we were rubbish.
This season and with Suarez gone, Sturridge injured we started the season poorly. Yes you can question the signings, especially Balotelli and Lovren.
Some of the others have taken time to settle and been in and out of the team.
I don't think the manager is under threat, but he can't afford any mistakes in the next transfer window and needs a top 4 place next season for sure.
The longer he goes without a trophy the more pressure he will be under.
Sterling in particular, if you have them 3 on fire and others playing to their maximum then as it showed we scored goals for fun.
Even though defensively we were rubbish.
This season and with Suarez gone, Sturridge injured we started the season poorly. Yes you can question the signings, especially Balotelli and Lovren.
Some of the others have taken time to settle and been in and out of the team.
I don't think the manager is under threat, but he can't afford any mistakes in the next transfer window and needs a top 4 place next season for sure.
The longer he goes without a trophy the more pressure he will be under.
The part in bold is hilarious - not that I'm laughing at your expense (I enjoy your posts), but it's funny because it's exactly what we were telling the other Liverpool supporters on here at the start of the season and none of them would have it. Now it's being used as a reason for your rapid decline.
Can't argue with the post though.
I don't buy the "needed quantity" line. Rodgers barely changed their line-ups over the congested PL-CL-PL fixture runs, and even when he did he was often using subs that had played a good chunk of the game before. There's no point in buying more players if you aren't going to rotate your squad to make use of them, or if they simply aren't good enough in the first place. You may as well play someone twice in a row if you're going to have to bring them on at half time anyway.
Liverpool's line-ups before and after CL ties compared to their CL line-ups:
Villa - 13th September - Lost v Ludogorets - 16th September - Won v West Ham - 20th September - Lost
Mignolet Mignolet Mignolet
Manquillo Manquillo Manquillo
Lovren Lovren Lovren
Sakho Sakho Skrtel
Moreno Moreno Moreno
Henderson Henderson Henderson
Gerrard Gerrard Gerrard
Markovic Sterling Sterling
Coutinho Coutinho Lucas
Lallana Lallana Borini
Balotelli Balotelli Balotelli
Subs: Subs: Subs:
Sterling - 30 mins Lucas - 20 mins Lallana - 45 mins
Borini - 20 mins Borini - 25 mins Sakho - 80 mins
Lambert - 20 mins Lambert - 15 mins
Starting 11 changes - 1 then 3
Fresh players introduced - 0 then 1
Total players used - 16
Total subs made - 8/9
Mignolet Mignolet Mignolet
Manquillo Manquillo Manquillo
Lovren Lovren Lovren
Sakho Sakho Skrtel
Moreno Moreno Moreno
Henderson Henderson Henderson
Gerrard Gerrard Gerrard
Markovic Sterling Sterling
Coutinho Coutinho Lucas
Lallana Lallana Borini
Balotelli Balotelli Balotelli
Subs: Subs: Subs:
Sterling - 30 mins Lucas - 20 mins Lallana - 45 mins
Borini - 20 mins Borini - 25 mins Sakho - 80 mins
Lambert - 20 mins Lambert - 15 mins
Starting 11 changes - 1 then 3
Fresh players introduced - 0 then 1
Total players used - 16
Total subs made - 8/9
v Everton - 27th September - Drew v Basel - 1st October - Lost v West Brom - 4th October - Won
Mignolet Mignolet Mignolet
Manquillo Manquillo Manquillo
Skrtel Skrtel Skrtel
Lovren Lovren Lovren
Moreno Enrique Moreno
Gerrard Gerrard Gerrard
Henderson Henderson Henderson
Markovic Markovic Lallana
Lallana Coutinho Coutinho
Sterling Sterling Sterling
Balotelli Balotelli Lambert
Subs: Subs: Subs:
Coutinho - 30 mins Lallana - 20 mins Johnson - 25 mins
Lambert - 2 mins Lambert - 9 mins Balotelli - 25 mins
Lucas - 15 mins
Starting 11 changes - 2 then 3
Fresh players introduced - 1 then 2
Total players used - 16
Total subs made - 7/9
Mignolet Mignolet Mignolet
Manquillo Manquillo Manquillo
Skrtel Skrtel Skrtel
Lovren Lovren Lovren
Moreno Enrique Moreno
Gerrard Gerrard Gerrard
Henderson Henderson Henderson
Markovic Markovic Lallana
Lallana Coutinho Coutinho
Sterling Sterling Sterling
Balotelli Balotelli Lambert
Subs: Subs: Subs:
Coutinho - 30 mins Lallana - 20 mins Johnson - 25 mins
Lambert - 2 mins Lambert - 9 mins Balotelli - 25 mins
Lucas - 15 mins
Starting 11 changes - 2 then 3
Fresh players introduced - 1 then 2
Total players used - 16
Total subs made - 7/9
v QPR - 19th October - Won v Real Madrid - 22nd October - Lost v Hull - 25th October - Drew
Mignolet Mignolet Mignolet
Johnson Johnson Manquillo
Skrtel Skrtel Skrtel
Lovren Lovren Lovren
Enrique Moreno Moreno
Henderson Henderson Can
Can Allen Allen
Sterling Sterling Sterling
Gerrard Gerrard Gerrard
Lallana Coutinho Lallana
Balotelli Balotelli Balotelli
Subs: Subs: Subs:
Coutinho - 25 mins Lallana - 45 mins Coutinho - 30 mins
Allen - 25 mins Can - 25 mins Henderson - 15 mins
Toure - 1 min Markovic - 20 mins Lambert - 30 mins
Starting 11 changes - 2 then 3
Fresh players introduced - 1 then 1
Total players used - 18
Total subs made - 9/9
Mignolet Mignolet Mignolet
Johnson Johnson Manquillo
Skrtel Skrtel Skrtel
Lovren Lovren Lovren
Enrique Moreno Moreno
Henderson Henderson Can
Can Allen Allen
Sterling Sterling Sterling
Gerrard Gerrard Gerrard
Lallana Coutinho Lallana
Balotelli Balotelli Balotelli
Subs: Subs: Subs:
Coutinho - 25 mins Lallana - 45 mins Coutinho - 30 mins
Allen - 25 mins Can - 25 mins Henderson - 15 mins
Toure - 1 min Markovic - 20 mins Lambert - 30 mins
Starting 11 changes - 2 then 3
Fresh players introduced - 1 then 1
Total players used - 18
Total subs made - 9/9
v Newcastle - 1st November - Lost v Real Madrid - 4th November - Lost v Chelsea - 8th November - Lost
Mignolet Mignolet Mignolet
Johnson Manquillo Johnson
Skrtel Skrtel Skrtel
Lovren Toure Lovren
Moreno Moreno Moreno
Gerrard Can Can
Henderson Lucas Gerrard
Allen Allen Henderson
Coutinho Markovic Coutinho
Sterling Lallana Sterling
Balotelli Borini Balotelli
Subs: Subs: Subs:
Borini - 25 mins Gerrard - 20 mins Allen - 20 mins
Lambert - 10 mins Sterling - 20 mins Borini - 20 mins
Coutinho - 15 mins Lambert - 10 mins
Starting 11 changes - 6 then 7
Fresh players introduced - 6 then 4
Total players used - 19
Total subs made - 8/9
Mignolet Mignolet Mignolet
Johnson Manquillo Johnson
Skrtel Skrtel Skrtel
Lovren Toure Lovren
Moreno Moreno Moreno
Gerrard Can Can
Henderson Lucas Gerrard
Allen Allen Henderson
Coutinho Markovic Coutinho
Sterling Lallana Sterling
Balotelli Borini Balotelli
Subs: Subs: Subs:
Borini - 25 mins Gerrard - 20 mins Allen - 20 mins
Lambert - 10 mins Sterling - 20 mins Borini - 20 mins
Coutinho - 15 mins Lambert - 10 mins
Starting 11 changes - 6 then 7
Fresh players introduced - 6 then 4
Total players used - 19
Total subs made - 8/9
v Palace - 23rd November - Lost v Ludogorets - 26th November - Drew v Stoke - 29th November - Won
Mignolet Mignolet Mignolet
Manquillo Manquillo Enrique
Skrtel Skrtel Skrtel
Lovren Toure Toure
Johnson Johnson Johnson
Lallana Henderson Henderson
Gerrard Gerrard Coutinho
Allen Allen Allen
Sterling Sterling Sterling
Coutinho Lucas Lucas
Lambert Lambert Lambert
Subs: Subs: Subs:
Borini - 20 mins Moreno - 10 mins Gerrard - 15 mins
Can - 15 mins Lovren - 2 mins
Starting 11 changes - 3 then 2
Fresh players introduced - 3 then 2
Total players used - 18
Total subs made - 5/9
Mignolet Mignolet Mignolet
Manquillo Manquillo Enrique
Skrtel Skrtel Skrtel
Lovren Toure Toure
Johnson Johnson Johnson
Lallana Henderson Henderson
Gerrard Gerrard Coutinho
Allen Allen Allen
Sterling Sterling Sterling
Coutinho Lucas Lucas
Lambert Lambert Lambert
Subs: Subs: Subs:
Borini - 20 mins Moreno - 10 mins Gerrard - 15 mins
Can - 15 mins Lovren - 2 mins
Starting 11 changes - 3 then 2
Fresh players introduced - 3 then 2
Total players used - 18
Total subs made - 5/9
v Sunderland - 6th December - Drew v Basel - 9th December - Drew v United - 14th December - Lost
Mignolet Mignolet Jones
Johnson Johnson Johnson
Skrtel Skrtel Skrtel
Toure Lovren Lovren
Moreno Enrique Moreno
Henderson Henderson Henderson
Lucas Lucas Coutinho
Lallana Gerrard Gerrard
Coutinho Allen Allen
Sterling Sterling Sterling
Lambert Lambert Lallana
Subs: Subs: Subs:
Gerrard - 25 mins Markovic - 15 mins Toure - 65 mins
Markovic - 10 mins Moreno - 45 mins Markovic - 20 mins
Coutinho - 15 mins Balotelli - 45 mins
Starting 11 changes - 4 then 4
Fresh players introduced - 3 then 2
Total players used - 18
Total subs used - 8/9
Mignolet Mignolet Jones
Johnson Johnson Johnson
Skrtel Skrtel Skrtel
Toure Lovren Lovren
Moreno Enrique Moreno
Henderson Henderson Henderson
Lucas Lucas Coutinho
Lallana Gerrard Gerrard
Coutinho Allen Allen
Sterling Sterling Sterling
Lambert Lambert Lallana
Subs: Subs: Subs:
Gerrard - 25 mins Markovic - 15 mins Toure - 65 mins
Markovic - 10 mins Moreno - 45 mins Markovic - 20 mins
Coutinho - 15 mins Balotelli - 45 mins
Starting 11 changes - 4 then 4
Fresh players introduced - 3 then 2
Total players used - 18
Total subs used - 8/9
By the time Rodgers even attempted a bit of rotation it was too late, and they were pretty much already out of the CL. Their PL form around the CL fixtures was shockingly bad too, even against shit sides. Defeats to Villa, West Ham, Newcastle, Chelsea, Palace and United, and draws against Everton, Hull and Sunderland.
No matter how you try and dress it up, Rodgers/the tyrannical Liverpool transfer board's policy of filling up the squad with mediocrity has backfired massively, not helped by the fact that Rodgers chose not to use his squad during periods of fixture congestion.
Demanding that rodgers at least makes top 4 next season is setting him out to fail imo, i'm not saying it's not gonna happen, but spending needs to match the ambitions. To be a regular top 4 club, year in year out, you'll need to outspend and offer better wages than 16 teams in the league, at least that's how it's gonna work long term anyway.
Not just tonight though, in case you haven't noticed he's taken a team that finished 2nd last season, admittedly lost one great player and then is taking them to a non top 4 finish. He's been all over the place this season, seems to be experimenting without a clear line of thought as to what he's trying to build.
Obviously it's a little funny considering Rodgers' comments about Tottenham, but the reality is that a club like Liverpool cannot properly replace a player like Suarez. Same as Tottenham couldn't properly replace Bale.
In theory, you should be able to replace those goals and everything else with four or five good signings (if you're lucky.) But we've seen it doesn't work that way.
Suarez/Bale are A-level players (at least in terms of their impact.) Replacing them with four B-C level players just isn't the same. Match-winners of that level are rare. When it's that obvious that your star player is so so much better than everyone else in the team, and you're in Liverpool or Tottenham's position, you're usually screwed trying to replace them. You're effectively taking away the one player who's head and shoulders above the rest and replacing them with players of that same standard of everyone else, or even worse.
There is basically nobody they could have signed to replicate what Suarez/Bale did. basically the style that worked before cannot work as well now Suarez is gone. Rodgers' real test starts here.
In theory, you should be able to replace those goals and everything else with four or five good signings (if you're lucky.) But we've seen it doesn't work that way.
Suarez/Bale are A-level players (at least in terms of their impact.) Replacing them with four B-C level players just isn't the same. Match-winners of that level are rare. When it's that obvious that your star player is so so much better than everyone else in the team, and you're in Liverpool or Tottenham's position, you're usually screwed trying to replace them. You're effectively taking away the one player who's head and shoulders above the rest and replacing them with players of that same standard of everyone else, or even worse.
There is basically nobody they could have signed to replicate what Suarez/Bale did. basically the style that worked before cannot work as well now Suarez is gone. Rodgers' real test starts here.
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I said that at the time. Rodgers probably knew this, it was obvious enough, and as they weren't gonna be able to sign anyone truly world class to replace him, they went for squad depth instead to cope with the extra fixtures.
At the moment, it looks like they've bought a load of shite.
The thing is that in Rodgers' criticism of Spurs he made no such allowances, so why should we, or any non-hypocritical Liverpool fans*, allow him any such leeway?
*if such exist.
Yes finding a match winner to replace those calibre of players is extremely difficult however you can improve the other positions in the team that were problematic in the season before, thus leading to a more balanced side than before. Its not like the pool team last season didn't have any issues that needed urgent interventions. They tried to do that, and failed drastically.
The came second due to their attack of which Suarez was a massive part of. The rest of the team though was riddled with holes all over. Their midfield couldn't protect their defence, their defence has been average at bringing the ball out. These are issues that good intelligent signings could've solved instead he embarked on a mission to add to the squad. Why would you put the focus on improving the squad when the first 11 isn't on point? What sort of thinking is that?
Losing 1 superstar attacker shouldn't have a team ending up 1 point above a southampton side that lost half their first 11.
They definitely got things wrong in the summer, but you can understand the need to add numbers, purely due to the Champions League games.
In terms of comparison to Southampton. Like I said before, the real key is that Liverpool lost a player significantly better than everyone else. Southampton may have lost half their team, but the gap between who they lost and who they didn't was smaller. And the gap between what they lost and what they were able to sign was also smaller than for Liverpool. You could argue Suarez was that good.
I'd say the table right now actually reflects Liverpool's quality better than last year's table did.
What level of layer should Liverpool have gone for in order to address the issues you mention? An obvious right back would have been Clyne, but obviously they'd already signed three players from Southampton. Who else? Would they have actually been a surer bet than what they ended up with?
Considering they went and spent £20m on Lovren, £24m on Lallana and £14m on Balotelli AFTER failing to sign Sanchez points to me that they did have the funds, just not desire to join them from player.
I don't think you had a chance. Maybe... maybe.. if Suarez wasn't leaving to Barcelona, you could have pitched to Sanchez the opportunity to cause havoc as a pairing (I don't know if you'd still have been after him in that case though?)
But I think Liverpool of today are so far away from the draw they were in the past. So far away. I think you barely even register for a player like Sanchez, when he's looking for a move, to be honest.
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Southampton actually managed to replace their departures with adequate players. Bertrand for Shaw, Alderweireld for Lovren, Pelle for Lambert and Tadic for Lallana actually made them stronger.
I hope so. He's an excellent manager and the sooner he's out of Liverpool the better for all of us.
Because we had no squad depth at all last season. You only had to check who was on the bench to see that.
When there was the need to change something we had few or little options to be able to do that.
Ironically (in theory) our bench is a lot stronger but league results overall because of the bad start we made don't reflect that.
I do kind of agree though, I would rather bring in quality over quantity. The manager wanted Sanchez but he chose to go elsewhere.
Fact is him apart he got most of the targets he wanted, which is why I said earlier next season is a big one for him given it looks like we may not qualify for the CL this time around.
I still think he is a good manager but needs to buy the right players in the summer.
Surely Arsenal over Liverpool is a no brainer both in terms of football and lifestyle.
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