Brentan Rodgers

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220 million? With a club the size of liverpool? Miracle? To get a squad better than this current arsenal and man united? Surely you don't believe that.
I do. Club 'size' is has little to do with it.
To this generation of top players Liverpool are largely irrelevant. I don't think Liverpool are much bigger as a draw than Tottenham. I've listed why a little way back. That money is more likely to be spent on a player like Sigurdsson than Ozil or Sanchez.

Let's not change the stance. People were laughing all summer at Liverpool fans being 'deluded' that they could sign a player like Sanchez.
 
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Spending far more money LvG has toiled with little or no pattern for more of the season than Rodgers' Liverpool.

Either way it was a poor start from Liverpool but it was remedied.

This is what bugs me about football 'analysis'. It's based almost singularly on the 'now'. Had Liverpool won on Sunday this narrative we are debating would've been directed at LvG.

As I said above, I'm happy to tolerate losses if it falls within the context of general progress. This is why I'm not concerned.

The key difference there is that it's only LvG's first season in the league, but Rodgers' 3rd with Liverpool and 5th overall.
 
The key difference there is that it's only LvG's first season in the league, but Rodgers' 3rd with Liverpool and 5th overall.
Which is why Rodgers' pattern of play is more established.
 
They both spend quite a bit, but they've spent it to replace better player's that have left, particularly in Spurs' case. They also can't offer the wages that the four bigger clubs offer, which means they end up paying more in transfer fee's to compensate for lower wages. I believe for instance that Spurs are the only team in the League that has a negative net spend for the past 4 seasons. Liverpool are fourth with around £135m, which to be fair is quite a lot (Arsenal £90m). However every year they give away around £20m in wages.

The only thing I'd say about the likes of Simeone & Klopp is that the success is usually short lived. A crop of quality player's under a top manager will click together and for 3-4 seasons they can compete. However in the medium term the best player's get bought and usually the team falls back to its equilibrium. We are seeing this with Dortmund this year and will probably start to see it with A.Madrid in the next season or two.

You are right. However, what I am saying is that when you are a club in their position, you want the manager to perform better than at the bare minimum. You don't go - we have the fifth highest revenue and we finished 5th, we did good. The goal is always to improve.

Simeone and Klopp may not be able to establish their respective clubs along with the giants in their leagues but for a club like theirs a title or two and good European runs in that period is golden.
 
Liverpool needed world-class quality like Sanchez in the summer window and couldn't get it, despite being in the CL, nearly winning the league, playing nice football.

They need world-class quality this summer
Rodgers and Balotelli :lol:



'Kin hell. Is that what David Luiz looks like with short hair? No wonder he keeps the mop.
 
You are right. However, what I am saying is that when you are a club in their position, you want the manager to perform better than at the bare minimum. You don't go - we have the fifth highest revenue and we finished 5th, we did good. The goal is always to improve.

Simeone and Klopp may not be able to establish their respective clubs along with the giants in their leagues but for a club like theirs a title or two and good European runs in that period is golden.

True enough and last season Rodgers did hugely overachieve. Likewise winning the FA Cup would be an over-achievement this season.

To expect him to do what Simeone/Klopp have done for more than the odd season here and there is a bit harsh in my view. It'd be like sacking Van Gaal if he didn't win the League next year.
 
True enough and last season Rodgers did hugely overachieve. Likewise winning the FA Cup would be an over-achievement this season.

To expect him to do what Simeone/Klopp have done for more than the odd season here and there is a bit harsh in my view. It'd be like sacking Van Gaal if he didn't win the League next year.

Why would winning the FA Cup be an over-achievement?
 
Why would winning the FA Cup be an over-achievement?

The same reason winning the League or Champions League would be an over-achievement, there are several teams better than you. The only way for Liverpool to win the FA Cup would be:
  • To very fortunately avoid the 4 teams better than yourself
  • To beat a few teams better than yourself
Now beating better team(s) is the definition of overachieving and the chances of not coming against any club better than yourself is very small. Liverpool have been incredibly fortunate in their draws so far this season, but will still almost certainly face a better team in the final. So if they win it this year it will be a mixture of fortune and overachieving.
 
The same reason winning the League or Champions League would be an over-achievement, there are several teams better than you. The only way for Liverpool to win the FA Cup would be:
  • To very fortunately avoid the 4 teams better than yourself
  • To beat a few teams better than yourself
Now beating better team(s) is the definition of overachieving and the chances of not coming against any club better than yourself is very small. Liverpool have been incredibly fortunate in their draws so far this season, but will still almost certainly face a better team in the final. So if they win it this year it will be a mixture of fortune and overachieving.

I don't see how winning a game against a team better than you is necessarily overachieving. Especially when Arsenal (the only team better than them) are hardly massively better than them. Liverpool are certainly more then capable of beating Arsenal on their day.
 
I don't see how winning a game against a team better than you is necessarily overachieving. Especially when Arsenal (the only team better than them) are hardly massively better than them. Liverpool are certainly more then capable of beating Arsenal on their day.

In a usual cup run Liverpool would have to beat a few better teams. The chances are they'd face a team like Spurs/So'ton in the quarters, a team like United/City in the semi's and a Chelsea/Arsenal type team in the final. There'd be at least 3 matches that would be a good test, as well as the tricky away fixtures earlier on in the competition. The probability of a team like Liverpool winning the competition would be about 1/10 to 1/15 (see the betting odds at the start of the campaign), hence winning it either being fortunate or overachieving.

Think about what a normal season for Liverpool would be as standard: 5th place in the league, FA Cup quarters and possibly a League Cup semi or final. If they do much better than this they have over-achieved that year.
 
The same reason winning the League or Champions League would be an over-achievement, there are several teams better than you. The only way for Liverpool to win the FA Cup would be:
  • To very fortunately avoid the 4 teams better than yourself
  • To beat a few teams better than yourself
Now beating better team(s) is the definition of overachieving and the chances of not coming against any club better than yourself is very small. Liverpool have been incredibly fortunate in their draws so far this season, but will still almost certainly face a better team in the final. So if they win it this year it will be a mixture of fortune and overachieving.

In a usual cup run Liverpool would have to beat a few better teams. The chances are they'd face a team like Spurs/So'ton in the quarters, a team like United/City in the semi's and a Chelsea/Arsenal type team in the final. There'd be at least 3 matches that would be a good test, as well as the tricky away fixtures earlier on in the competition. The probability of a team like Liverpool winning the competition would be about 1/10 to 1/15 (see the betting odds at the start of the campaign), hence winning it either being fortunate or overachieving.

Think about what a normal season for Liverpool would be as standard: 5th place in the league, FA Cup quarters and possibly a League Cup semi or final. If they do much better than this they have over-achieved that year.
:lol: That is such bullshit. That's not overachieving, it's called having a good cup run and it's all about form on the day, being motivated and, admittedly, some luck with the draws. A tournament is very different to the Premier League which is a competition over the course of a whole season. You can get far in a tournament without having to be the best team whereas most of the time, the best teams are competing for the title. You can't overachieve in a cup tournament, imo.
 
:lol: That is such bullshit. That's not overachieving, it's called having a good cup run and it's all about form on the day, being motivated and, admittedly, some luck with the draws. A tournament is very different to the Premier League which is a competition over the course of a whole season. You can get far in a tournament without having to be the best team whereas most of the time, the best teams are competing for the title. You can't overachieve in a cup tournament, imo.

I'm sure if you won the champions league you'd agree you'd over achieved.
 
The same reason winning the League or Champions League would be an over-achievement, there are several teams better than you. The only way for Liverpool to win the FA Cup would be:
  • To very fortunately avoid the 4 teams better than yourself
  • To beat a few teams better than yourself
Now beating better team(s) is the definition of overachieving and the chances of not coming against any club better than yourself is very small. Liverpool have been incredibly fortunate in their draws so far this season, but will still almost certainly face a better team in the final. So if they win it this year it will be a mixture of fortune and overachieving.

What a load of rubbish!

Most teams who win a cup have some luck along the way, and any team in the Premier League are capable of a good cup run, jeez even Hull nearly won it last season.
We beat City at home in the league, so if we had met and beaten them in the cup is that over-achieving too?

The fortunate fixtures comment is just called 'luck of the draw', which is why United faced mighty Cambridge, Yeovil & Preston.

I'm sure if you won the champions league you'd agree you'd over achieved.

If we won the Champions League I wouldn't be capable of typing for the rest of the year...however, you said the FA Cup, to say that would be an over-achievement is crazy.
 
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In a usual cup run Liverpool would have to beat a few better teams. The chances are they'd face a team like Spurs/So'ton in the quarters, a team like United/City in the semi's and a Chelsea/Arsenal type team in the final. There'd be at least 3 matches that would be a good test, as well as the tricky away fixtures earlier on in the competition. The probability of a team like Liverpool winning the competition would be about 1/10 to 1/15 (see the betting odds at the start of the campaign), hence winning it either being fortunate or overachieving.

Think about what a normal season for Liverpool would be as standard: 5th place in the league, FA Cup quarters and possibly a League Cup semi or final. If they do much better than this they have over-achieved that year.

Considering Liverpool haven't finished 5th in the league for a decade, I'm not sure what you're really getting at. And yeah, you'll often have to meet good teams in the cup, but it's not really a guarantee either to be fair. That's the whole luck aspect of the cup, after all.

What you seem to be suggesting is that by merely not being the best team in the cup, they'd be overachieving, which is a bit daft. Otherwise, any club other than Chelsea winning it would technically be overachieving by your logic, albeit to different degrees. Couldn't it be that if they win it, they've just had a good cup campaign?
 
Considering Liverpool haven't finished 5th in the league for a decade, I'm not sure what you're really getting at. And yeah, you'll often have to meet good teams in the cup, but it's not really a guarantee either to be fair. That's the whole luck aspect of the cup, after all.

What you seem to be suggesting is that by merely not being the best team in the cup, they'd be overachieving, which is a bit daft. Otherwise, any club other than Chelsea winning it would technically be overachieving by your logic, albeit to different degrees. Couldn't it be that if they win it, they've just had a good cup campaign?

Indeed.
 
I do. Club 'size' is has little to do with it.
To this generation of top players Liverpool are largely irrelevant. I don't think Liverpool are much bigger as a draw than Tottenham. I've listed why a little way back. That money is more likely to be spent on a player like Sigurdsson than Ozil or Sanchez.

Let's not change the stance. People were laughing all summer at Liverpool fans being 'deluded' that they could sign a player like Sanchez.
I'd say you're wrong, liverpool have enough prestige and money(massive difference between them and spurs) to attract quality players that aren't at the top clubs. Anyways signing players is more a case of finding players of great potential who fit into the teams dynamics rather than these 'world class' signings. He's been there long enough for him to have implemented some sort of long term transfer strategy but he hasn't done that. Instead its more of a scatter gun approach that isn't paying dividends.

He's got Coutinho at the club who's quality is obvious, yet goes and signs Markovic for big money who plays in the same position. He needed a quality defender, and signed lovren. Allen, henderson, Gerrard and Lucas shouldn't be starters in a midfield of a club with big ambitions, yet they are. He figured signing Can was the way to go.

There's a narrow-mindedness in english football that the only way to put together a great squad riddled with quality is just a matter of attracting world stars, but it really isn't. With most of these players signing them before they become superstars is far more constructive than trying to lure them when everyone is chasing them. Plus teams throw away quality players all the time due to a vast amount of reasons and these players could be purchased.

Atletico, Juve and Dortmund have shown in recent years that it isn't all about having a team that can attract talent and all that. Such statements make it sound like Pool is swansea or something when in fact they are a pretty massive club. It also makes it sound like getting a squad better than Arsenal and Man United is some tall task, when it really isn't.
 
Which is why Rodgers' pattern of play is more established.

In your own words, "He wasn't sure about a clear pattern of play from Sept to November."

This isn't about LvG taking a bit longer than Rodgers to find a working formation this season, this is about Rodgers entering his 3rd season as Liverpool manager following a £120 million summer splurge on new players (on top of the previous windows), and not knowing what the feck he was doing with them.
 
Considering Liverpool haven't finished 5th in the league for a decade, I'm not sure what you're really getting at. And yeah, you'll often have to meet good teams in the cup, but it's not really a guarantee either to be fair. That's the whole luck aspect of the cup, after all.

What you seem to be suggesting is that by merely not being the best team in the cup, they'd be overachieving, which is a bit daft. Otherwise, any club other than Chelsea winning it would technically be overachieving by your logic, albeit to different degrees. Couldn't it be that if they win it, they've just had a good cup campaign?

When Liverpool finish 6th or 7th, they are underachieving. When they finished 2nd, they overachieved. Winning the Champions League would be overachieving because their are several better teams and 49 times out of 50 they'd be knocked out. Winning the FA Cup is overachieving because 9 times out of 10 they'd be knocked out.

In the last 15 seasons Liverpool have had arguably 3 seasons that match an FA Cup winning season... I class achieving a feat that happens once every 5 years at best as over-achieving.
 
I'd say you're wrong, liverpool have enough prestige and money(massive difference between them and spurs) to attract quality players that aren't at the top clubs. Anyways signing players is more a case of finding players of great potential who fit into the teams dynamics rather than these 'world class' signings. He's been there long enough for him to have implemented some sort of long term transfer strategy but he hasn't done that. Instead its more of a scatter gun approach that isn't paying dividends.

He's got Coutinho at the club who's quality is obvious, yet goes and signs Markovic for big money who plays in the same position. He needed a quality defender, and signed lovren. Allen, henderson, Gerrard and Lucas shouldn't be starters in a midfield of a club with big ambitions, yet they are. He figured signing Can was the way to go.

There's a narrow-mindedness in english football that the only way to put together a great squad riddled with quality is just a matter of attracting world stars, but it really isn't. With most of these players signing them before they become superstars is far more constructive than trying to lure them when everyone is chasing them. Plus teams throw away quality players all the time due to a vast amount of reasons and these players could be purchased.

Atletico, Juve and Dortmund have shown in recent years that it isn't all about having a team that can attract talent and all that. Such statements make it sound like Pool is swansea or something when in fact they are a pretty massive club. It also makes it sound like getting a squad better than Arsenal and Man United is some tall task, when it really isn't.
Agree with all of that (except the bolded part maybe). We signed players like Torres and Suarez when they were already very good players but not yet superstars, arguably Xabi Alonso and Mascherano as well. That's the way to go in my opinion: target the players you need, find the right (and available at a reasonable price) players and turn them into superstars yourself. Of course, you can't always predict how a player will develop so it can be a bit hit and miss but given the right scouting tactics, you'll be just fine. Coutinho is the perfect example in my opinion. Only in cases like last season, when we sold one of the best players in the world, you should directly replace him with another established world class player (Sanchez, Higuain, ...) because you can't gamble on such a gaping hole in your starting eleven.

When Liverpool finish 6th or 7th, they are underachieving. When they finished 2nd, they overachieved. Winning the Champions League would be overachieving because their are several better teams and 49 times out of 50 they'd be knocked out. Winning the FA Cup is overachieving because 9 times out of 10 they'd be knocked out.

In the last 15 seasons Liverpool have had arguably 3 seasons that match an FA Cup winning season... I class achieving a feat that happens once every 5 years at best as over-achieving.
:wenger: Again, I can't even understand your reasoning. The league and FA Cup are two different things, you don't need a good season to win the FA Cup - that's the beauty of it, doesn't mean you're overachieving. Just had a good cup run. Winning the FA Cup was a realistic goal for Liverpool before the beginning of the season, winning the Champions League was not. So the latter would be overachieving, the former would not.
 
Rodgers is an absolute phenomenon of a manager. I'd have him over Mourinho based on him having a lot more integrity than Mourinho despite him learning his trade from Mourinho. It pains me that Liverpool have such a manager. Van Gaal is great too but it is still unknown how consistent he can be. Hopefully Liverppol don't finish top 4 this season as they will be a very dangerous animal heading into the future if they do..PS love the Balotelli hair-cut swap photos
 
Rodgers is an absolute phenomenon of a manager. I'd have him over Mourinho based on him having a lot more integrity than Mourinho despite him learning his trade from Mourinho. It pains me that Liverpool have such a manager. Van Gaal is great too but it is still unknown how consistent he can be. Hopefully Liverppol don't finish top 4 this season as they will be a very dangerous animal heading into the future if they do..PS love the Balotelli hair-cut swap photos
Apart from inventing 3 at the back this year, how?
 
Apart from inventing 3 at the back this year, how?
Taking a mid-table bunch of clowns similar to Newcastle and turning them into a unit that play breathtaking football at times despite spending probably the same amount that Newcastle do......Liverpool have basically emerged from nowhere to becoming a very serious contender to win the premier league....There's no harm in being in denial or delusional like you obviously are but Liverpool are a club to fear again even though they lost to us unexpectedly last weekend and it's all down to Brenton. Like I said - we need them not to finish in the Top 4 this season otherwise the next 10 years of PL football could be painful to watch
 
Taking a mid-table bunch of clowns similar to Newcastle and turning them into a unit that play breathtaking football at times despite spending probably the same amount that Newcastle do......Liverpool have basically emerged from nowhere to becoming a very serious contender to win the premier league....There's no harm in being in denial or delusional like you obviously are but Liverpool are a club to fear again even though they lost to us unexpectedly last weekend and it's all down to Brenton. Like I said - we need them not to finish in the Top 4 this season otherwise the next 10 years of PL football could be painful to watch
you're pretty touchy for all things Brendan. he's a decent young manager no doubt, a 'phenomenon' as you put it, he is not. He has been there 3 years now, has no interest in defending and a transfer record that is frankly abysmal. He was beaten at his own game in his own back yard last sunday, and I fully expect him to sign some magic beans in the summer
 
Rodgers is an absolute phenomenon of a manager. I'd have him over Mourinho based on him having a lot more integrity than Mourinho despite him learning his trade from Mourinho. It pains me that Liverpool have such a manager. Van Gaal is great too but it is still unknown how consistent he can be. Hopefully Liverppol don't finish top 4 this season as they will be a very dangerous animal heading into the future if they do..PS love the Balotelli hair-cut swap photos
Taking a mid-table bunch of clowns similar to Newcastle and turning them into a unit that play breathtaking football at times despite spending probably the same amount that Newcastle do......Liverpool have basically emerged from nowhere to becoming a very serious contender to win the premier league....There's no harm in being in denial or delusional like you obviously are but Liverpool are a club to fear again even though they lost to us unexpectedly last weekend and it's all down to Brenton. Like I said - we need them not to finish in the Top 4 this season otherwise the next 10 years of PL football could be painful to watch
:wenger::lol:
 
I'd be interested to see who he would go with a squad like Arsenal or something. His Liverpool team can play some beautiful stuff when they are on, if he had more talent I think he would be rated very, very highly. The fact he is Liverpool's manager (and a bit of a tool) means he is judged extra critically.
 
Rodgers is an absolute phenomenon of a manager. I'd have him over Mourinho based on him having a lot more integrity than Mourinho despite him learning his trade from Mourinho. It pains me that Liverpool have such a manager. Van Gaal is great too but it is still unknown how consistent he can be. Hopefully Liverppol don't finish top 4 this season as they will be a very dangerous animal heading into the future if they do..PS love the Balotelli hair-cut swap photos
Phenomenon of a manager who won 0 trophies as a manager. (unless you count the PL playoffs with Swansea)

He's a promising manager but I would take Mourinho over Rodgers any day. Rodgers having a "lot more integrity" than Mourinho is also horse shit. (if you think otherwise then see him defending Skrtel stamp on DDG)
 
Rodgers is an absolute phenomenon of a manager. I'd have him over Mourinho based on him having a lot more integrity than Mourinho despite him learning his trade from Mourinho. It pains me that Liverpool have such a manager. Van Gaal is great too but it is still unknown how consistent he can be. Hopefully Liverppol don't finish top 4 this season as they will be a very dangerous animal heading into the future if they do..PS love the Balotelli hair-cut swap photos
Seriously?
 
Taking a mid-table bunch of clowns similar to Newcastle and turning them into a unit that play breathtaking football at times despite spending probably the same amount that Newcastle do......Liverpool have basically emerged from nowhere to becoming a very serious contender to win the premier league....There's no harm in being in denial or delusional like you obviously are but Liverpool are a club to fear again even though they lost to us unexpectedly last weekend and it's all down to Brenton. Like I said - we need them not to finish in the Top 4 this season otherwise the next 10 years of PL football could be painful to watch
The delusion is strong in this one.
 
Taking a mid-table bunch of clowns similar to Newcastle and turning them into a unit that play breathtaking football at times despite spending probably the same amount that Newcastle do......Liverpool have basically emerged from nowhere to becoming a very serious contender to win the premier league....There's no harm in being in denial or delusional like you obviously are but Liverpool are a club to fear again even though they lost to us unexpectedly last weekend and it's all down to Brenton. Like I said - we need them not to finish in the Top 4 this season otherwise the next 10 years of PL football could be painful to watch

;)
 
I do. Club 'size' is has little to do with it.
To this generation of top players Liverpool are largely irrelevant. I don't think Liverpool are much bigger as a draw than Tottenham. I've listed why a little way back. That money is more likely to be spent on a player like Sigurdsson than Ozil or Sanchez.

Let's not change the stance. People were laughing all summer at Liverpool fans being 'deluded' that they could sign a player like Sanchez.
Mentioning Gylfi, he'd actually be a great signing for Liverpool. Frightening thought.
 
Spending far more money LvG has toiled with little or no pattern for more of the season than Rodgers' Liverpool.

Either way it was a poor start from Liverpool but it was remedied.

This is what bugs me about football 'analysis'. It's based almost singularly on the 'now'. Had Liverpool won on Sunday this narrative we are debating would've been directed at LvG.

As I said above, I'm happy to tolerate losses if it falls within the context of general progress. This is why I'm not concerned.

Far more money? He spent £150m compared to Rodgers £120m. The only difference is that while Rodgers was working on a squad that lost two players over the summer, Van Gaal was working with a squad that lost 10 players and was then decimated my an injury crisis of an extent very rarely seen in the Premier League.
 
Said it before but, he's a good football guy, who is a good manager....He's just being sucked into the Liverpool way of doing things...

Yano...Without decency. "Oh he didn't mean to stamp on him"...Yeah, right.

That and the fact he is a little weirdo!!....He's so weird
 
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