Boycott The Qatar World Cup?

[RacingClub]

It should be the same people who are critical of Qatar that should be critical in 4 years time too. Otherwise it's pure hypocrisy.

Well the reverse works too, I expect you will be there constantly reminding everyone about future hosts human rights records / atrocities during the "American World Cup Boycott" thread and steering the conversation away from criticism of the current event hosts?

Otherwise it's pure hypocrisy right?

 

[moses]

I am standing by what I say. In 4 years time you come and create such a big fuss as now then I will apologize. Otherwise it's pure hypocrisy.

Now you're being ridiculous.

Who exactly is a hypocrite?

This hysteria shouted into the ether is tedious.

 

[moses]

Not just critical, b/c that just lets them off the hook by saying "I was against Trump/Bush/QAnon" (basically all the low-hanging fruit). I want a thread just like this in 2026 calling for people to boycott the WC in the US and all the same posts outlining the horrible things the US government is involved in.

Do you know what hypocrisy means?

Would you like a list of differences between the US and Qatar?

In that list will be the many reasons different stances won't be hypocrisy.

 

[GreenFieldsGoldenBarley]

It should be the same people who are critical of Qatar that should be critical in 4 years time too. Otherwise it's pure hypocrisy.

Look, i fully intend to criticise the US fully during the next world cup. However, criticising Qatar but not the US for hosting the world cup is not hypocrisy, unless thousands of labourers die in the construction of stadiums for the US world cup. This won't happen, because the US (remarkably) has better labour laws than Qatar, and also because the US already has stadiums and doesn't need to import and then kill record numbers of migrant labourers to build them.

So stop whining about hypocrisy to deflect from Qatar killing people from South Asia.

 

[Rood]

Look, i fully intend to criticise the US fully during the next world cup. However, criticising Qatar but not the US for hosting the world cup is not hypocrisy, unless thousands of labourers die in the construction of stadiums for the US world cup. This won't happen, because the US (remarkably) has better labour laws than Qatar, and also because the US already has stadiums and doesn't need to import and then kill record numbers of migrant labourers to build them.

So stop whining about hypocrisy to deflect from Qatar killing people from South Asia.

Has already been debunked many times in this thread and others, but the idea that 'thousands of labourers died in the construction of stadiums " is simply not true

Qatar needs to improve its employment rights record but going around calling people murderers is silly

All started with that article in The Guardian, who themselves amended it, but the misleading numbers have been reshared again and again

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-how-many-people-have-died-for-the-qatar-world-cup/a-63763713

 

[GreenFieldsGoldenBarley]

Has already been debunked many times in this thread and others, but the idea that 'thousands of labourers died in the construction of stadiums " is simply not true

Qatar needs to improve its employment rights record but going around calling people murderers is silly

All started with that article in The Guardian, who themselves amended it, but the misleading numbers have been reshared again and again

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-how-many-people-have-died-for-the-qatar-world-cup/a-63763713

From this article: "In conclusion, figures referring to fatalities in connection with the 2022 World Cup vary depending on definition, including of where migrant workers came from, where and when they died, and whether their deaths can be described as work-related or not. However, given the inconsistencies and shortcomings in Qatar's own official data, a concrete conclusion is impossible to ascertain, which in turn raises the question as to why exactly the Qatari authorities are unable to provide reliable information."

The article that you quoted also states that "The official acknowledgement of three deaths, therefore, discounts fatalities, which may have occurred on other construction sites which likely wouldn't have existed without the World Cup. It also fails to take into account thousands of documented cases of migrant workers dying in their accommodation outside of shift hours, for which no adequate explanations have been provided.

According to research by The Guardian and Amnesty International, the latter using figures provided by the government of Bangladesh, Qatari doctors ascribe around 70% of fatalities to "natural deaths" caused by acute cardio-respiratory failures.

However, for epidemiologists, heart and breathing failures are not causes of death but results. The cause of a cardiac arrest could be a heart attack or other irregularity, while respiratory failure could be caused by an allergic reaction or poisoning.

But no such explanations are given. Indeed, in a 2022 documentary series by German public broadcaster ARD, Qatari doctors even report being forced to fill out death certificates as such.

As early as 2014, in an independent report commissioned by the Qatari government, the global law firm DLA Piper criticized this practice and "strongly recommended" that the government "permit autopsies or post-mortems in cases of unexpected or sudden death." In late 2021, the International Labor Organization (ILO) also criticized the lack of adequate documentation of accidents and causes of death.""

So all this proves is that Qatar has avoided documenting its responsibility for the deaths of migrant workers, which isn't as strong an argument as you seem to think.

 

[Rood]

So all this proves is that Qatar has avoided documenting its responsibility for the deaths of migrant workers, which isn't as strong an argument as you seem to think.

Nothing you posted supports the idea that thousands of labourers died building WC stadia - because it's simply not true

Obviously many have died and the only questions are how many would be 'normal' in that size of population and how many are directly connected to the World Cup

There is various bits of research with morbid stats about death rates amongst migrant communities online if you want to read them

 

[Wibble]

Finally watched some of this WC - the second half of extra time of Argentina vs Holland and the penalties. Underwhelmed. Neither side looked good enough to win the whole thing.

 

[Wibble]

Nothing you posted supports the idea that thousands of labourers died building WC stadia - because it's simply not true

Obviously many have died and the only questions are how many would be 'normal' in that size of population and how many are directly connected to the World Cup

There is various bits of research with morbid stats about death rates amongst migrant communities online if you want to read them

This is standard practice across the Gulf states. Understate, lie and deny.

Why are you so pro an obviously fairly despicable regime? Your defense of them seems oddly OTT.

 

[Rood]

This is standard practice across the Gulf states. Understate, lie and deny.

Why are you so pro an obviously fairly despicable regime? Your defense of them seems oddly OTT.

I'd say that's standard practice for most governments nowadays - Boris Johnson did exactly that on a weekly basis

I'm only looking for the facts - rather than believe every clickbait headline in the media (The Guardian article being case in point) I've actually taken the time to research things like the situation for migrant workers in the Gulf and it's absolutely clear that the idea that thousands of workers died building the WC stadiums is false

If people are considering extreme action like boycotting based on such numbers, then wouldn't you say that it's important to get the facts right ?

 

[Wibble]

I'd say that's standard practice for most governments nowadays - Boris Johnson did exactly that on a weekly basis

Boris was and is an utter twat but no way did he cover up mass mortality of workers.

I'm only looking for the facts - rather than believe every clickbait headline in the media (The Guardian article being case in point) I've actually taken the time to research things like the situation for migrant workers in the Gulf and it's absolutely clear that the idea that thousands of workers died building the WC stadiums is false

Nothing of the sort is clear. The gulf in general hides worker mortality on a huge scale. No more than a renewable resource.

If people are considering extreme action like boycotting based on such numbers, then wouldn't you say that it's important to get the facts right ?

The facts clearly justify a boycott. Even if you forget the corruption.

 

[Relevated]

If you told an individual from a different continent, or culture, about the stuff Boris johnson (or other PMs) have done then they'd give the same reaction we're giving.

Hundreds of old people froze to death in the winter. People are waiting 40+ hours and dying in the wait of an ambulance. Thousands of avoidable deaths during covid.

All this was so that tories could make money.

Just because the crime is done by a man in a suit doesn't make it legitimate, in comparison to a man in foreign garment. Its like people turn a blind eye to their own society since they've grown in it.

 

[moses]

I'd say that's standard practice for most governments nowadays - Boris Johnson did exactly that on a weekly basis

I'm only looking for the facts - rather than believe every clickbait headline in the media (The Guardian article being case in point) I've actually taken the time to research things like the situation for migrant workers in the Gulf and it's absolutely clear that the idea that thousands of workers died building the WC stadiums is false

If people are considering extreme action like boycotting based on such numbers, then wouldn't you say that it's important to get the facts right ?

You don't seem to be looking for facts quite as much as looking for the positives. There's nothing wrong with that but just needs to be clarified.

With all your research any negatives pointed out to you seems to be brand new information. Often after you have dismissed it. Like the numbers, nobody can prove or disprove them because of the nature of the records, which is at best cause for concern, but which you take as proof the allegations are 'simply not true'.

Why does a boycott seem 'extreme' to you? Surely it's quite a reserved form of protest?

 

[moses]

If you told an individual from a different continent, or culture, about the stuff Boris johnson (or other PMs) have done then they'd give the same reaction we're giving.

Hundreds of old people froze to death in the winter. People are waiting 40+ hours and dying in the wait of an ambulance. Thousands of avoidable deaths during covid.

All this was so that tories could make money.

Just because the crime is done by a man in a suit doesn't make it legitimate, in comparison to a man in foreign garment. Its like people turn a blind eye to their own society since they've grown in it.

Because protesters famously love dudes in suits. I'm ignoring the boring racist, allegations.

I'm not from the UK and no fan of Boris, in fact I despise him, but we do at least have the numbers of the dead to which you refer, and there is consequentially constant debate over the inequality literally daily, both published and broadcast and there are also elections. That's some of the worst whabatoutery ever lads.

 

[oneway]

Around 48000 workers die in India each year, are we going to boycott cricket there? China has Uighurs in concentration camps are we going to boycott all the millions of products that come from there? The UK and the French are signing new gas and oil deals with Qatar shall we stop using gas and filling out cars with fuel. Bangladeshi workers are paid a pittance for making football kits that are sold for extortionate prices here shall we stop buying football tops ? Most likely not, from what i can see those fans, pundits and global companies are really enjoying it out in Qatar so if you feel so strongly don`t watch it even the highlights. I know once the world cup is done it will be forgotten. I avoid Israeli products has it changed anything for the Palestinians, the situation there is no better, nowadays they just shoot them. There are problems all around the world we have poor leaders everywhere who only think about themselves and that`s one of the main issue we face.

 

[Relevated]

Because protesters famously love dudes in suits. I'm ignoring the boring racist, allegations.

I'm not from the UK and no fan of Boris, in fact I despise him, but we do at least have the numbers of the dead to which you refer, and there is consequentially constant debate over the inequality literally daily, both published and broadcast and there are also elections. That's some of the worst whabatoutery ever lads.

Why do you speak as if our governments here are completely transparent and not murderers, for the purpose of money? And why is there also a slight racist undertone in your posts? Why do you take the side of news which MAY not be true, as opposed to remaining partial? Why do you, at surface level, seem to deny that there is a difference in the ways cultures perceive each others? Why do you say there is a racist undertone when it's very clear, and the experiences of millions, that they're viewed negatively just because of the colour of their skin and their garments?

 

[moses]

Around 48000 workers die in India each year, are we going to boycott cricket there? China has Uighurs in concentration camps are we going to boycott all the millions of products that come from there? The UK and the French are signing new gas and oil deals with Qatar shall we stop using gas and filling out cars with fuel. Bangladeshi workers are paid a pittance for making football kits that are sold for extortionate prices here shall we stop buying football tops ? Most likely not, from what i can see those fans, pundits and global companies are really enjoying it out in Qatar so if you feel so strongly don`t watch it even the highlights. I know once the world cup is done it will be forgotten. I avoid Israeli products has it changed anything for the Palestinians, the situation there is no better, nowadays they just shoot them. There are problems all around the world we have poor leaders everywhere who only think about themselves and that`s one of the main issue we face.

I live outside the sphere of cricket, but if those figures are true and the result of greed and oppression then if the World Cup goes there I would hope it would be used to shine a light on the problems. Likewise for China, they have well documented Human Rights problems, and if there was a way to highlight them further we should jump at the opportunity. I too have been part of an Israeli Boycott for almost two decades now. Yes there are problems in every country and we should try and fix them if we have the time and energy. We are limited in our effect but sometimes momentum builds and change occurs. I get people who see it's pointless, because it often is, but I couldn't sleep if I didn't do a at least a little bit.

 

[Relevated]

Around 48000 workers die in India each year, are we going to boycott cricket there? China has Uighurs in concentration camps are we going to boycott all the millions of products that come from there? The UK and the French are signing new gas and oil deals with Qatar shall we stop using gas and filling out cars with fuel. Bangladeshi workers are paid a pittance for making football kits that are sold for extortionate prices here shall we stop buying football tops ? Most likely not, from what i can see those fans, pundits and global companies are really enjoying it out in Qatar so if you feel so strongly don`t watch it even the highlights. I know once the world cup is done it will be forgotten. I avoid Israeli products has it changed anything for the Palestinians, the situation there is no better, nowadays they just shoot them. There are problems all around the world we have poor leaders everywhere who only think about themselves and that`s one of the main issue we face.

One of the most sensible posts here but again, people (especially specific mods) will ignore this all and say that the focus is now on Qatar so we must focus on that. Its extremely clear as to what the real issue is with those who oppose Qatar, and its the Islamic law & anti lgbtq laws. There is absolutely no other reason, regardless of what is said. So sensible posts like this will just be overlooked.

Qatar has better infrastructure, has been a better host, has very good security, has provided good entertainment with no hooliganism, foreigners have been safe, there has been no brutality. Qatar has been very very good.

 

[moses]

Why do you speak as if our governments here are completely transparent and not murderers, for the purpose of money? And why is there also a slight racist undertone in your posts? Why do you take the side of news which MAY not be true, as opposed to remaining partial? Why do you, at surface level, seem to deny that there is a difference in the ways cultures perceive each others? Why do you say there is a racist undertone when it's very clear, and the experiences of millions, that they're viewed negatively just because of the colour of their skin and their garments?

Firstly I don't know where you are from.

Secondly the issue in hand was nebulous deaths in Qatar and specific figures for the UK, given by you.

Show me the racism in my posts please, because the vague cries of racism are moving from tedious to insidious.

I know perceptions vary, but I'm more concerned with material suffering.

Racism exists, yes. But it's a leap to reduce concerns over human rights to racism. You're the only one caught up with skin colour and clothes.

 

[Abizzz]

One of the most sensible posts here but again, people (especially specific mods) will ignore this all and say that the focus is now on Qatar so we must focus on that. Its extremely clear as to what the real issue is with those who oppose Qatar, and its the Islamic law & anti lgbtq laws. There is absolutely no other reason, regardless of what is said. So sensible posts like this will just be overlooked.

Qatar has better infrastructure, has been a better host, has very good security, has provided good entertainment with no hooliganism, foreigners have been safe, there has been no brutality. Qatar has been very very good.

You do not get to decide what other people object to. The audacity to expect everybody to respect what is undeniably a intransparent, corrupt and authoritarian regime just because they have huge amounts of money is outstanding.

And the calls and insinuations of racism are despicable if you have no other reason to come up with them than a disagreement in an argument.

 

[moses]

One of the most sensible posts here but again, people (especially specific mods) will ignore this all and say that the focus is now on Qatar so we must focus on that. Its extremely clear as to what the real issue is with those who oppose Qatar, and its the Islamic law & anti lgbtq laws. There is absolutely no other reason, regardless of what is said. So sensible posts like this will just be overlooked.

Qatar has better infrastructure, has been a better host, has very good security, has provided good entertainment with no hooliganism, foreigners have been safe, there has been no brutality. Qatar has been very very good.

Come on, explain the accusations of racism. Seriously, you can't just accuse people of racism with no explanation.

And name the mods so they can explain their stance.

 

[Sky1981]

From this article: "In conclusion, figures referring to fatalities in connection with the 2022 World Cup vary depending on definition, including of where migrant workers came from, where and when they died, and whether their deaths can be described as work-related or not. However, given the inconsistencies and shortcomings in Qatar's own official data, a concrete conclusion is impossible to ascertain, which in turn raises the question as to why exactly the Qatari authorities are unable to provide reliable information."

The article that you quoted also states that "The official acknowledgement of three deaths, therefore, discounts fatalities, which may have occurred on other construction sites which likely wouldn't have existed without the World Cup. It also fails to take into account thousands of documented cases of migrant workers dying in their accommodation outside of shift hours, for which no adequate explanations have been provided.

According to research by The Guardian and Amnesty International, the latter using figures provided by the government of Bangladesh, Qatari doctors ascribe around 70% of fatalities to "natural deaths" caused by acute cardio-respiratory failures.

However, for epidemiologists, heart and breathing failures are not causes of death but results. The cause of a cardiac arrest could be a heart attack or other irregularity, while respiratory failure could be caused by an allergic reaction or poisoning.

But no such explanations are given. Indeed, in a 2022 documentary series by German public broadcaster ARD, Qatari doctors even report being forced to fill out death certificates as such.

As early as 2014, in an independent report commissioned by the Qatari government, the global law firm DLA Piper criticized this practice and "strongly recommended" that the government "permit autopsies or post-mortems in cases of unexpected or sudden death." In late 2021, the International Labor Organization (ILO) also criticized the lack of adequate documentation of accidents and causes of death.""

So all this proves is that Qatar has avoided documenting its responsibility for the deaths of migrant workers, which isn't as strong an argument as you seem to think.

They provided data. The media (west) just dont buy it. Their typical tactic. Write everything off and question everything

They're an open country. You can literally go there and vlog. The sites are open to inspections.

Yet somehow you have no problem believing 6500 workers died. A number that would be impossible to even think of.

Try hiding 6500 corpses with today's satelite and smartphone.

 

[VorZakone]

They provided data. The media (west) just dont buy it. Their typical tactic. Write everything off and question everything

Didn't some Qatari official tell Piers Morgan the deaths are in the hundreds recently?

 

[Sultan]

Without exonerating the blame of the working conditions of Qatar as we're discussing the country hosting a major event. Spending some extra finances will not bankrupt these nations or companies. I'd also point out that many foreign companies contracted to build in Qatar, UAE, etc are from industrialised nations. The home government's fault line is not to force or compel these companies to provide better health and safety laws.

It's pretty obvious India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and the Philippines where most migrant workers are from are victims of poverty and the glitter we see in certain nations is obviously due to their blood, sweat and tears. The countries that provide jobs will counter-argue that young men and women feel compelled to leave their home nations simply to feed their families and choose the working conditions and pay on offer is still better than their home nations.

 

[moses]

They provided data. The media (west) just dont buy it. Their typical tactic. Write everything off and question everything

They're an open country. You can literally go there and vlog. The sites are open to inspections.

Yet somehow you have no problem believing 6500 workers died. A number that would be impossible to even think of.

Try hiding 6500 corpses with today's satelite and smartphone.

I may be wrong but I don't think the deaths are being questioned, just the causes? The issue is with the post mortem records?


This Time Mag piece explains it a bit and explains the 6500 figure is over 10 years. It was without a doubt a base and sensationalist headline.

https://time.com/6237677/qatar-migrant-deaths-world-cup/

 

[Roane]

Look, i fully intend to criticise the US fully during the next world cup. However, criticising Qatar but not the US for hosting the world cup is not hypocrisy, unless thousands of labourers die in the construction of stadiums for the US world cup. This won't happen, because the US (remarkably) has better labour laws than Qatar, and also because the US already has stadiums and doesn't need to import and then kill record numbers of migrant labourers to build them.

So stop whining about hypocrisy to deflect from Qatar killing people from South Asia.

As I understand it, someone correct me if I'm wrong, the infrastructure for the stadiums in Qatar will be shipped to the USA for the next WC.

 

[GreenFieldsGoldenBarley]

They provided data. The media (west) just dont buy it. Their typical tactic. Write everything off and question everything

They're an open country. You can literally go there and vlog. The sites are open to inspections.

Yet somehow you have no problem believing 6500 workers died. A number that would be impossible to even think of.

Try hiding 6500 corpses with today's satelite and smartphone.

I don't get why you'd view the state's information as more reliable than an independent human rights NGO's data. The state obviously has all the motivation in the world to minimise the public account of the deaths it has caused. Human Rights Watch does not.

Human Rights Watch are not some western propaganda tool. They criticise everyone. For example, they're being kicked out of Israel because they announced in great detail that Israel is an apartheid state. You can't dismiss what they day as Western propaganda. Especially if your argument against it is that 'well, Qatar said they didn't kill that many people, and why would they lie about it?'

Don't tell me you think that a country hosting instagram influencers makes them open and free. That's crazy naive at best.

Clearly an authoritarian regime with heaps of gas money and a long coastline can hide 6500 corpses over a period of 10 years. Taking these figures from the embassies of the countries from where migrant workers come is much more likely to produce accurate statistics than just asking the Qatari gov how many workers it killed.

Honestly, even if you take Qatari figures at face value (which you shouldn't, because obviously that's propaganda) 500 people dying getting the world cup ready is still appalling and horrific. Its shocking how many people seem willing to defend Qatar on the basis that they say 'only' 500 people died.

Nothing you posted supports the idea that thousands of labourers died building WC stadia - because it's simply not true

Obviously many have died and the only questions are how many would be 'normal' in that size of population and how many are directly connected to the World Cup

There is various bits of research with morbid stats about death rates amongst migrant communities online if you want to read them

The figure of over 6500 deaths comes from the embassies of Nepal, Bangladesh, India and Pakistan - it's how many nationals from these countries have died in Qatar since the world cup was awarded. I accept that it is impossible to show statistically exactly how many of these deaths can be linked directly to the WC, and how many would have happened anyway. But there's a reason that is the nulber being quoted.

I think that the practice of importing migrant labourers from poor countries to work extreme hours in excruciating conditions for negligible pay, so that rich countries can make money and bolster their image is barbaric and basically amounts to a continuation of slavery. If the death rate of migrant workers - who are, by their nature, young and able-bodied - is this high, that is a reason to condemn the whole practice, not to excuse the death rate of migrant workers in Qatar.

 

[GreenFieldsGoldenBarley]

As I understand it, someone correct me if I'm wrong, the infrastructure for the stadiums in Qatar will be shipped to the USA for the next WC.

There's one stadium that was made of shipping containers that is being disassembled - which to me flags up how totally crazy it was to award a wc to Qatar. They're building these stadiums on top of dead bodies, and they can't even pretend that they have any long-term purpose.

 

[noodlehair]

The thing I'm not comfortable about with the boycotting argument is its tunnel visioning a wider issue into somehow being directly caused by or due to the world cup, and as soon as its finished it'll all be forgotten about again. There's also an uncomfortable touch of hypocrisy or convenience arguing about it.

If there is any blame specifically relating to the world cup, this should be directly pointed at FIFA. They are the only international body with authority or remit to govern the safety and treatment of people building world cup stadiums. They have rules and regulations for the safety of people who use football stadiums, which effectively mirror the safety laws in countries like the United Kingdom. Their power in this regard is that if these rules aren't followed, FIFA can refuse to allow their football matches to be hosted there. There is no reason why they can't apply the same to construction and worker practices, especially where a stadium is built specifically for a FIFA event. Other countries have no remit or, more bluntly, business, trying to enforce their laws onto a foreign country. FIFA in effect can, and given they choose where the world cup is, should. If they had done this Qatar would have either coughed up a tiny bit more money to treat workers better, or wouldn't have hosted the world cup. Either might have set a precedent going forwards for worker rights in general.

Boycotting is fine but then what is it you are taking issue with. Fifa and The world cup specifically, or is it the treatment of migrant workers/lgbt rights in general within the middle East? Because the impression I get seems to be that the finger is being pointed at Qatar, which is fine if there are valid issues, but then what about outside of the world cup? Aren't the current champions of England owned and funded by the UAE? Who have a terrible record with treatment of migrant workers? A third of the England squad are on their payroll. Did people boycott cheering whenever Sterling scored at the Euros?

I get that the world cup has shone a light on certain issues but the problem with applying principals to your morals is you then have to apply them across the board otherwise its completely meaningless and isnt going to be taken seriously, and then it starts to get quite complicated when you're going to the extreme of boycotting things.

 

[stevoc]

As I understand it, someone correct me if I'm wrong, the infrastructure for the stadiums in Qatar will be shipped to the USA for the next WC.

Pretty sure the US has more top clasd stadiums than 99% of the world's countries, they won't need a shipping container stadium from Qatar.

I suspect that one container stadium they built will be shipped somewhere and see little or no use. I could be wrong but in the original bid I thought most of the stadiums for this WC were supposed to be portable and be shipped to Africa after the tournament. Let's see how that works out.

 

[moses]

The thing I'm not comfortable about with the boycotting argument is its tunnel visioning a wider issue into somehow being directly caused by or due to the world cup, and as soon as its finished it'll all be forgotten about again. There's also an uncomfortable touch of hypocrisy or convenience arguing about it.

If there is any blame specifically relating to the world cup, this should be directly pointed at FIFA. They are the only international body with authority or remit to govern the safety and treatment of people building world cup stadiums. They have rules and regulations for the safety of people who use football stadiums, which effectively mirror the safety laws in countries like the United Kingdom. Their power in this regard is that if these rules aren't followed, FIFA can refuse to allow their football matches to be hosted there. There is no reason why they can't apply the same to construction and worker practices, especially where a stadium is built specifically for a FIFA event. Other countries have no remit or, more bluntly, business, trying to enforce their laws onto a foreign country. FIFA in effect can, and given they choose where the world cup is, should. If they had done this Qatar would have either coughed up a tiny bit more money to treat workers better, or wouldn't have hosted the world cup. Either might have set a precedent going forwards for worker rights in general.

Boycotting is fine but then what is it you are taking issue with. Fifa and The world cup specifically, or is it the treatment of migrant workers/lgbt rights in general within the middle East? Because the impression I get seems to be that the finger is being pointed at Qatar, which is fine if there are valid issues, but then what about outside of the world cup? Aren't the current champions of England owned and funded by the UAE? Who have a terrible record with treatment of migrant workers? A third of the England squad are on their payroll. Did people boycott cheering whenever Sterling scored at the Euros?

I get that the world cup has shone a light on certain issues but the problem with applying principals to your morals is you then have to apply them across the board otherwise its completely meaningless and isnt going to be taken seriously, and then it starts to get quite complicated when you're going to the extreme of boycotting things.

I really don't understand the logic that unless you dedicate your life to every protest, which is the reality of your logic, then your priest is somehow invalid.

Protests have to be tactical, both as an individual and as an organisation, at a place and time where one's energies will have the greatest effect because as you say there are many injustices of various types in every country. Even Amnesty can't focus on all of them simultaneously, so to expect an individual to is quite unreasonable. Even with two similar injustices, an individual may react differently because of personal circumstances, or the second even might be the tipping point.

There has always been a discussion of LGBT rights, women';s rights and workers rights in Qatar. The world cup has brought it into focus so more people have an opinion, that's just logical?Similarly there is constant investigative scrutiny over Man City.

The debate over human rights is just another country "trying to enforce their laws onto a foreign country." to you? That's a weird take.

 

[moses]

As I understand it, someone correct me if I'm wrong, the infrastructure for the stadiums in Qatar will be shipped to the USA for the next WC.

I think they can be repurposed alright, I've not heard details.

 

[GreenFieldsGoldenBarley]

The thing I'm not comfortable about with the boycotting argument is its tunnel visioning a wider issue into somehow being directly caused by or due to the world cup, and as soon as its finished it'll all be forgotten about again. There's also an uncomfortable touch of hypocrisy or convenience arguing about it.

If there is any blame specifically relating to the world cup, this should be directly pointed at FIFA. They are the only international body with authority or remit to govern the safety and treatment of people building world cup stadiums. They have rules and regulations for the safety of people who use football stadiums, which effectively mirror the safety laws in countries like the United Kingdom. Their power in this regard is that if these rules aren't followed, FIFA can refuse to allow their football matches to be hosted there. There is no reason why they can't apply the same to construction and worker practices, especially where a stadium is built specifically for a FIFA event. Other countries have no remit or, more bluntly, business, trying to enforce their laws onto a foreign country. FIFA in effect can, and given they choose where the world cup is, should. If they had done this Qatar would have either coughed up a tiny bit more money to treat workers better, or wouldn't have hosted the world cup. Either might have set a precedent going forwards for worker rights in general.

Boycotting is fine but then what is it you are taking issue with. Fifa and The world cup specifically, or is it the treatment of migrant workers/lgbt rights in general within the middle East? Because the impression I get seems to be that the finger is being pointed at Qatar, which is fine if there are valid issues, but then what about outside of the world cup? Aren't the current champions of England owned and funded by the UAE? Who have a terrible record with treatment of migrant workers? A third of the England squad are on their payroll. Did people boycott cheering whenever Sterling scored at the Euros?

I get that the world cup has shone a light on certain issues but the problem with applying principals to your morals is you then have to apply them across the board otherwise its completely meaningless and isnt going to be taken seriously, and then it starts to get quite complicated when you're going to the extreme of boycotting things.

1000% FIFA need to be blamed for this. The world cup def did increase the number of migrant worker deaths, because these stadiums/accommodation venues needed to be constructed quickly for the world cup - without the world cup the building projects don't happen and the scale of deaths is lower.

Qatar also needs to be held responsible though, as they are the ones who planned and ran the building projects, which are what killed all those people.

Boycotting really isn't an extreme response. I mean, no-one gets hurt or even inconvenienced. It's one of the least extreme forms of protest there is. If you think boycotting a world cup is too extreme then you are basically saying that no-one should protest.

 

[Rood]

Boris was and is an utter twat but no way did he cover up mass mortality of workers.



Nothing of the sort is clear. The gulf in general hides worker mortality on a huge scale. No more than a renewable resource.



The facts clearly justify a boycott. Even if you forget the corruption.

It is absolutely clear that the claim that thousands of workers have died building stadiums in Qatar is not true, it's been debunked my many indepedant sources

Even The Guardian who made this claim originally had to change it

Have you even read the links I posted above? This is not info from Qatar themselves as obviously their official numbers cannot be trusted either

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-how-many-people-have-died-for-the-qatar-world-cup/a-63763713

 

[Rood]

You don't seem to be looking for facts quite as much as looking for the positives. There's nothing wrong with that but just needs to be clarified.

With all your research any negatives pointed out to you seems to be brand new information. Often after you have dismissed it. Like the numbers, nobody can prove or disprove them because of the nature of the records, which is at best cause for concern, but which you take as proof the allegations are 'simply not true'.

Why does a boycott seem 'extreme' to you? Surely it's quite a reserved form of protest?

what are you refering to here? I am open to all new bits of info, I dont claim to have all the answers but on this specific issue of misinformation about worker deaths is absolutely clear from all the research I have read

I didnt mean 'extreme' in that way, but this is a football forum so to me to see football fans boycotting the biggest tournament in the sport is a shame

 

[GreenFieldsGoldenBarley]

It is absolutely clear that the claim that thousands of workers have died building stadiums in Qatar is not true, it's been debunked my many indepedant sources

Even The Guardian who made this claim originally had to change it

Have you even read the links I posted above? This is not info from Qatar themselves as obviously their official numbers cannot be trusted either

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-how-many-people-have-died-for-the-qatar-world-cup/a-63763713

The claim is that thousands of migrant labourers from Nepal, Bangladesh, India and Pakistan have died in Qatar since 2010 when the world cup was awarded to Qatar. This claim is based on reports from the Bangladeshi, Nepali, Indian and Pakistani embassies, and I see no reason to dispute it.

No-one can prove that all of those labourers died as a result of the Qatar world cup bid. Nevertheless, it is clearly horrific that such large numbers of migrant workers have died in qatar over the last 10 years.

It is also likely that this number is higher because of the pressure put on migrant workers by the Qatari government due to their need to be ready for the world cup.

That the deaths cannot legally be attributed to the decision to give the world cup to Qatar does not mean that they were not caused by the wc, nor does it make the deaths more acceptable.

 

[GreenFieldsGoldenBarley]

what are you refering to here? I am open to all new bits of info, I dont claim to have all the answers but on this specific issue of misinformation about worker deaths is absolutely clear from all the research I have read

I didnt mean 'extreme' in that way, but this is a football forum so to me to see football fans boycotting the biggest tournament in the sport is a shame

Don't think it's such a shame as people choosing to minimise and/or ignore the human suffering that went into preparing the world cup just because they really like football.

 

[Roane]

Is Qatar the only country to have had a stadium designed by a female architect?

 

[Rood]

The figure of over 6500 deaths comes from the embassies of Nepal, Bangladesh, India and Pakistan - it's how many nationals from these countries have died in Qatar since the world cup was awarded. I accept that it is impossible to show statistically exactly how many of these deaths can be linked directly to the WC, and how many would have happened anyway. But there's a reason that is the nulber being quoted.

I think that the practice of importing migrant labourers from poor countries to work extreme hours in excruciating conditions for negligible pay, so that rich countries can make money and bolster their image is barbaric and basically amounts to a continuation of slavery. If the death rate of migrant workers - who are, by their nature, young and able-bodied - is this high, that is a reason to condemn the whole practice, not to excuse the death rate of migrant workers in Qatar.

You will get no argument from me that Qatar has major issues with workers rights and needs to do a lot to improve the situation but I believe that the WC has already forced them to improve and see no reason why this situation wont continue to improve in the future

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Don't think it's such a shame as people choosing to minimise and/or ignore the human suffering that went into preparing the world cup just because they really like football.

I don’t think it’s a love of football that’s driving the agendas of Rood / MUnchies / Roane / Foxblatt etc.

When the next WC rolls around they won’t be calling anyone and everyone hypocrites for criticising the US but not criticising China / the ME / Russia, I assure you.