As usual, I'm interested only in Qatar and the World Cup
I have not seen anything anywhere that suggests that "right wing xenophobes" support a World Cup in Qatar
Boycott The Qatar World Cup?
- Thread starter OldSchoolManc
- Start date
As usual, I'm interested only in Qatar and the World Cup
I have not seen anything anywhere that suggests that "right wing xenophobes" support a World Cup in Qatar
Yes let's and let's hope that that World Cup is used as a platform by sections of the media to highlight the problematic issues you've mentioned not only about America but also some of the things going on in Mexico and Canada too. Like the methods Mexico's military use to control drug trafficking or Canada's treatment of indigenous people.
But until then your main contribution to people trying to discuss the issues surrounding this current World Cup and it's hosts human rights abuses has been basically just barging into the discussion every few pages to shout. ''But what about Merica?''
If there's a thread in 3 years discussing America's human rights abuses in the lead up to that World Cup. Will you suddenly become very concerned about discussing the human rights abuses of China, Russia, India etc. in those threads?
That's a giant assumption. Either they do support the world cup, and this can be evidenced by actual examples, or you're assuming they can based on tangential, but inaccurate logic.
Yes, Guantanamo is terrible. But Qatar was particularly awful as a location for a world cup as they literally had no infrastructure to support a world cup when it was given to them. No football stadiums, no accommodation, no facilities or cities to host.
To get the world cup ready, Qatar had to import an entire new workforce from south Asia. Thousands of people died to get the country ready for the world cup. That makes this different from a world cup in the US, or Brazil. As much as Guantanamo is a travesty, it has nothing to do with the world cup. Whereas, the thousands of labourers who have died in Qatar over the last 10 years died getting the country ready for the world cup.
So it is legitimate to ask the question about this world cup specifically - it cost many human lives, was it worth it?
We can criticise other countries that host the world cup, sure, but there are problems connected to Qatar hosting the world cup that we need to talk about, cos they're fundamental to the world cup experience.
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No, don't be silly, it's just part of what's skewing the discourse. There are many valid discussions being conflated. It's not a controversial take.
I'm assuming nothing, all are partially true but that's the thread people cling to because it suits their overall narrative.
The truth as ever is a mix of all.
I was just explaining how some right wing xenophobes hold counter intuitive positions. The opposite is true. Lots of lefties have a knee jerk sympathy with Putin due to anti Nato skepticism.
Edit - Just as some will oppose the world cup based on other people's hunan rights claims because they are actually xenophobes. Its that messed up. They pick one talking point and go with it.
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OK. Sometimes you do need to get a wider lens to get the full picture though. I'm not saying the World Cup is in any way xenophobic. It's just not always linear.
Don't think so. People speaking up against the wc in Qatar are speaking from the perspective of migrant right and LGBTQ rights. These are left-wing arguments. Centrist, liberal publications (i.e. the guardian, European political parties, the bbc) have criticised the WC but they haven't boycotted. More right-wing news orgs (piers morgan, fox news) haven't criticised the WC at all. Criticism of the world cup has basically come from the left, and that isn't surprising - it's the left that cares about migrant rights and LGBTQ rights.
The arguments against boycotting are authoritarian - they're about the fact that Qatar should be able to do what it wants inside Qatar. That's the same as China telling human rights orgs to get out of China, or Israel telling human rights orgs to get out of Israel/Palestine. In fact, Qatar's arguments that criticisms of it are racist are basically an exact replica of Israel calling anyone who talks about its treatment of Palestinians antisemitic.
@moses It sort of makes sense that right-wing xenophobes would support the world cup, as it sets a precedent that you can host a major international event and just tell everyone talking about human rights to shut up. It doesn't really matter if the authoritarian is Muslim or christian or secular - that's just window dressing
You do know Pundits aren’t Migrants don’t you?
you do know travelling football fans aren’t migrants either don’t you??
I’ve seen this mentioned before and was listening to some of the guys on Talksport talk about how well received they’ve been etc etc
The pundits and media have been treated with hospitality and VIP status’s
Of course their treatment is going to be utterly fantastic, possibly second too none
All this talk of how well we’ve been treated (none migrants) is throwing a blanket over the treatment of the migrants.
I’ve not boycotted this WC though as that would achieve entirely nothing, me sitting at home in my lounge refusing to watch it isn’t going to make a blind bit of difference
As far as WC’s go it’s been fantastic
@Rood
here's and a US conservative take
here's a reddit thread on it
Anti woke is the real reason they would champion the Qataris
"The leftist who piss and moan about colonialism travel somewhere else and immediately demand they change their entire culture and law to be in line with themselves. Do mirrors exist in university?"
"The Wokensteins will welcome him back with a parade and shower him with praise for being so “Brave”"
"Oh no! An Islamic country won't let you celebrate your woke ideologies?? And you're complaining about it?
What happened to respect all cultures?"
"Every time you see that rainbow flag on the US soccer team's jerseys, or above an American embassy, or plastered on some corporation's logo, understand that the world is laughing at us.
We are the new Rome, and the barbarians find the collapse of our civilization hilarious.".
here's and a US conservative take
here's a reddit thread on it
Anti woke is the real reason they would champion the Qataris
"The leftist who piss and moan about colonialism travel somewhere else and immediately demand they change their entire culture and law to be in line with themselves. Do mirrors exist in university?"
"The Wokensteins will welcome him back with a parade and shower him with praise for being so “Brave”"
"Oh no! An Islamic country won't let you celebrate your woke ideologies?? And you're complaining about it?
What happened to respect all cultures?"
"Every time you see that rainbow flag on the US soccer team's jerseys, or above an American embassy, or plastered on some corporation's logo, understand that the world is laughing at us.
We are the new Rome, and the barbarians find the collapse of our civilization hilarious.".
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Oh don't worry, I see it. It's obvious to me why it would find support in the more oppressive among us.
The right-wing "Marxist" take over at Spiked:
"On one side there is the proper football World Cup – a sporting tournament played out on the pitch, which is all about scoring goals and stars the best players on Earth.
On the other, there is the new woke World Cup – a culture war played out in the media (but projected towards the pitch), which is all about pious politically correct point-scoring using rainbow armbands, knee-taking etc. In this version, the repressive Gulf state of Qatar is a convenient stage on which to strike virtuous poses against homophobia or racism, while the players are reduced to (sometimes willing) pawns in a political game.
The clash between the two World Cups, over the values and meaning of international sport, could be as important as the outcome of the football tournament itself. Because make no mistake, if the woke version of the World Cup wins, it could destroy the integrity and excitement of football just as effectively as the trans lobby is undermining women’s sport."
https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/11/22/a-tale-of-two-world-cups/
"On one side there is the proper football World Cup – a sporting tournament played out on the pitch, which is all about scoring goals and stars the best players on Earth.
On the other, there is the new woke World Cup – a culture war played out in the media (but projected towards the pitch), which is all about pious politically correct point-scoring using rainbow armbands, knee-taking etc. In this version, the repressive Gulf state of Qatar is a convenient stage on which to strike virtuous poses against homophobia or racism, while the players are reduced to (sometimes willing) pawns in a political game.
The clash between the two World Cups, over the values and meaning of international sport, could be as important as the outcome of the football tournament itself. Because make no mistake, if the woke version of the World Cup wins, it could destroy the integrity and excitement of football just as effectively as the trans lobby is undermining women’s sport."
https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/11/22/a-tale-of-two-world-cups/
Fox news is being very pro-qatar world cup! It hasn't mentioned any of the problems, just been incredibly supporting and hype about everything.
More widely, I think it's part of a pattern around sportswashing being a left-wing concern. Trump, for example, was very in favour of the Saudi golf tour. I think it connects to the right-wing idea that if you have money you should be able to do what you want without states, and especially Western liberal states, from intervening. And that human rights are just a justification for curtailing business freedoms.
Fantastic post!
From an article on a session of the European parliament, in which mainstream and left wing parties were unified in their criticism of the World Cup in Qatar:
AfD chairman Tino Chrupalla:
To be clear, the opposite position exists as well inside the AfD, and the party is notoriously disunited internally in general (always on the basis of far right politics, of course). So it's unsurprising that they waver between contradicting motives, like their xenophobia against Muslims and support for an authoritarian-conservative "cultural autonomy" they wish to claim for themselves as well. Qatar is both an Islamic state and anti-"woke", so they can pick what they like.
From a commentary in "Junge Freiheit", the most notorious German magazine trying to bridge mainstream conservative and far right politics:
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Interesting and I see a couple of others have posted examples from other countries
I'd seen nothing like this in the UK though which I was interested to hear the logic
So not as "Obviously not", as you initially thought. It's Fox News, they are not a media backwater. As quoted above Fox News are behind the World Cup, but were also the loudest champions of Trump's Muslim ban and frequently broadcast the Great Replacement theory and other white supremacy nonsense. I honestly can't believe this sort of crossover and manipulation of agendas is really all new to you? It's as counter intuitive and common as people shouting racism at Human Rights campaigners. The real shame in both agendas is the human victims used as pawns in some other argument. That's why the whataboutism was just an affront to the victims.
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Perfect summary of right wing reasons to support Qatar actually. It makes perfect sense... To be fair they have far more in common with those regimes (like Qatari) than they have with the western society in general.
It's been underpinning the discourse from the off, but unless someone states it, one has to presume their opposition to the protest is not malicious or motivated by support for an authoritative oppressive government, and is just either disinterest, genuine respect for their culture or some other non activist reason.
That's actually an incorrect, scandalous and hugely offensive statement. But at least we know now the lack of precision in your analysis.
Well actually it was mostly the 'xenophobe' bit I didn't agree with - by definition a xenophobe in UK is unlikely to support a WC in the Middle East
Right wing is one thing, xenophobe is another and there is plenty of other complaints about this World Cup which is nothing to do with more left wing human rights issues so that bit isn't necessarily a surprise to me
It was the dismissive 'Obviously not' that got me into the conversation. Like I said, I'm surprised that with your constant engagement with this topic you only came upon this paradox today. At a stretch by dictionary definition it makes no sense, but even cursory research opens a rabbit hole.
Also a xenophobe by definition if you take the definition to be " a person having a dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries" could admire other strong-arm xenophobic countries as long as they stay in their own countries. Xenophbobia is a fear and dislike whereas racism is a superiority and dislike. Neither are great but racism is the more activist and ideological of the two.
I have not watched a single game yet. I am not kidding myself that me not watching this World Cup will change anything for the better regarding human rights in Qatar. But our TVs are like voting machines, it actually matters what we tune into. If the advertising companies miss significant revenue because there's millions of people not tuning into this World Cup that might just put pressure on FIFA when they choose hosts in the future.
That's just my personal anecdote on the matter. However, having been a reading follower on the debate, this thread came to mind listening to a podcast with David McRaney this morning. Unfortunately I doubt anyone is really convincing the other "side" on here. Rooted on their past experiences, people basically believe what they want to believe and construct new information accordingly. You can listen to the pocast here: The Psychology Pocast - How minds change - maybe instead of the WC game tonight.
McRaney argues, instead of arguing over facts, we should use empathy to understand why we disagree. Instead of a mindset of trying to convince others, everyone would benefit by approaching arguments with a mindset focused on learning from one another. But no wonder we rarely do that, considering our language is constantly using war metaphors when we talk about "winning" arguments, "attacking" others arguments or "defending" one's stance. (A really inspiring story in regards to empathy for me was the one of Daryl Davis by the way, a black man who has convinced several members of the K.K.K. to exit the clan: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/26/opinion/racism-politics-daryl-davis.html) Sorry, slightly off-topic in the end.
That's just my personal anecdote on the matter. However, having been a reading follower on the debate, this thread came to mind listening to a podcast with David McRaney this morning. Unfortunately I doubt anyone is really convincing the other "side" on here. Rooted on their past experiences, people basically believe what they want to believe and construct new information accordingly. You can listen to the pocast here: The Psychology Pocast - How minds change - maybe instead of the WC game tonight.
McRaney argues, instead of arguing over facts, we should use empathy to understand why we disagree. Instead of a mindset of trying to convince others, everyone would benefit by approaching arguments with a mindset focused on learning from one another. But no wonder we rarely do that, considering our language is constantly using war metaphors when we talk about "winning" arguments, "attacking" others arguments or "defending" one's stance. (A really inspiring story in regards to empathy for me was the one of Daryl Davis by the way, a black man who has convinced several members of the K.K.K. to exit the clan: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/26/opinion/racism-politics-daryl-davis.html) Sorry, slightly off-topic in the end.
There is a great Ted talk from a woman who left the Westboro church and her sentiments are similar to the podcast.I have not watched a single game yet. I am not kidding myself that me not watching this World Cup will change anything for the better regarding human rights in Qatar. But our TVs are like voting machines, it actually matters what we tune into. If the advertising companies miss significant revenue because there's millions of people not tuning into this World Cup that might just put pressure on FIFA when they choose hosts in the future.
That's just my personal anecdote on the matter. However, having been a reading follower on the debate, this thread came to mind listening to a podcast with David McRaney this morning. Unfortunately I doubt anyone is really convincing the other "side" on here. Rooted on their past experiences, people basically believe what they want to believe and construct new information accordingly. You can listen to the pocast here: The Psychology Pocast - How minds change - maybe instead of the WC game tonight.
McRaney argues, instead of arguing over facts, we should use empathy to understand why we disagree. Instead of a mindset of trying to convince others, everyone would benefit by approaching arguments with a mindset focused on learning from one another. But no wonder we rarely do that, considering our language is constantly using war metaphors when we talk about "winning" arguments, "attacking" others arguments or "defending" one's stance. (A really inspiring story in regards to empathy for me was the one of Daryl Davis by the way, a black man who has convinced several members of the K.K.K. to exit the clan: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/26/opinion/racism-politics-daryl-davis.html) Sorry, slightly off-topic in the end.
If your 'obviously not' still stands, do you think the AfD politicians and Fox News people aren't xenophobes, or are you saying that UK xenophobes are unlikely to support a WC in the Middle East while German and American xenophobes aren't?
I have not watched a single game yet. I am not kidding myself that me not watching this World Cup will change anything for the better regarding human rights in Qatar. But our TVs are like voting machines, it actually matters what we tune into. If the advertising companies miss significant revenue because there's millions of people not tuning into this World Cup that might just put pressure on FIFA when they choose hosts in the future.
That's just my personal anecdote on the matter. However, having been a reading follower on the debate, this thread came to mind listening to a podcast with David McRaney this morning. Unfortunately I doubt anyone is really convincing the other "side" on here. Rooted on their past experiences, people basically believe what they want to believe and construct new information accordingly. You can listen to the pocast here: The Psychology Pocast - How minds change - maybe instead of the WC game tonight.
McRaney argues, instead of arguing over facts, we should use empathy to understand why we disagree. Instead of a mindset of trying to convince others, everyone would benefit by approaching arguments with a mindset focused on learning from one another. But no wonder we rarely do that, considering our language is constantly using war metaphors when we talk about "winning" arguments, "attacking" others arguments or "defending" one's stance. (A really inspiring story in regards to empathy for me was the one of Daryl Davis by the way, a black man who has convinced several members of the K.K.K. to exit the clan: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/26/opinion/racism-politics-daryl-davis.html) Sorry, slightly off-topic in the end.
That's not necessarily true.
Over time I've become more and more convinced that Qatar are unsuitable hosts for the WC based on human right violations related to migrant deaths. Thanks to articles by the Guardian, and posts on here.
I still don't think sportswashing is a meaningful term here (it is very obvious that Qatar's reputation has not been elevated due to all the bad things brought to light by the tournament).
I also think it's prudent for FIFA to sit down and establish clear guidelines for what a host country needs to be, in order to be a suitable host. Because the worst thing that could happen is for all the Qatar critics to disappear come 4 years when the U.S.A. is hosting the WC.
Well there you go, a new perspective for me. I thought discourse on Twitter is eternally tribal, but apparently there are people on the platform that were able to change this women’s life. Thanks for sharing.
This won't be an issue when the US hosts, just like it wasn't the last time the US hosted.
What do you expect? They are going to disappear. They have never appeared before and they will not in 4 years time.
It's appalling the situation in Qatar but this bashing of Qatar only while other western countries could do whatever they want and host international tournaments without a peep is pure hypocrisy.
If anything I'd expect the people who have fought tooth and nail to deflect criticism from Qatar will be there to pile on the USA to be honest.
I am standing by what I say. In 4 years time you come and create such a big fuss as now then I will apologize. Otherwise it's pure hypocrisy.
Yes if there's one thing that nobody ever does ever it's criticize the US.
A distinct possibility, but I suspect a vast majority won't care because the WC will be in a western country during a time of year when it should be hosted, and won't in any way conflict with the club football calendar.
I was 4 in '94, I don't know how it was back then
Possibly. Are you saying increased scrutiny of WC hosts in general is a bad thing?
It should be the same people who are critical of Qatar that should be critical in 4 years time too. Otherwise it's pure hypocrisy.
Went to a couple of games in 94. The general sentiment of most fans was it was an excuse to visit the US.
Err no? I'm saying that the people who are critical of Qatar will be critical of the US , while IMO the people who are willing do run defence for Qatar right now and deflect etc will be more than willing to criticize the US when the time comes!
Seems like some are already chomping at the bit.
Which is fine with me because you won't see me defending FIFA awarding a World Cup to the USA
Not just critical, b/c that just lets them off the hook by saying "I was against Trump/Bush/QAnon" (basically all the low-hanging fruit). I want a thread just like this in 2026 calling for people to boycott the WC in the US and all the same posts outlining the horrible things the US government is involved in.