Boycott The Qatar World Cup?

Thom Merrilin said:
No I don't expect an entire country to change their beliefs, especially when a lot of those beliefs come from religious indoctrination. I did however expect Qatar to be more welcoming to other cultures seeing as they're putting their country on the world stage. Their attitude seems to be "our way or the highway" which is fine, it's their country and they can do what they want.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say regarding LGBT folks getting upset. Should they accept being being told that their sexuality is wrong?

As others have pointed out, there are pro-palestine marches and protests all over the western world. This is a thread about Qatar though.

I'm not sure how human rights could be subjective?? If you accept the fact that people of all race, gender, and sexuality are equal then surely human rights are universal and completely objective.

Personally, I think human rights are more important than any sport or game. I think a lot of people feel the same which is why there's so much discussion around things not football related.
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i appreciate your rational view of things, i really do. You understand that these laws are based on religious views. people may like it or not, but some things can not be accepted because they are not accepted by religion. People should just acknowledge that, like you said, it’s their country.

also, look, i mentioned palestine as an example. I was accused by some to be “weaponising compassion” whatever that means! You are right, the thread is about the world cup. It was just an example.
 
stevoc said:
Out of interest have you heard anyone say Qatari nationals are one of the groups being oppressed by the Qatati government?
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i probably mis-read the post which said “oppressed in Qatar”.

You’re view is that the LGBT community is oppressed, Qatar’s view is that they want people to respect their culture.
 
united for life said:
i appreciate your rational view of things, i really do. You understand that these laws are based on religious views. people may like it or not, but some things can not be accepted because they are not accepted by religion. People should just acknowledge that, like you said, it’s their country.

also, look, i mentioned palestine as an example. I was accused by some to be “weaponising compassion” whatever that means! You are right, the thread is about the world cup. It was just an example.
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Yeah I dont know what weaponising compassion means either.

I should also add that I don't accept religion as a valid defense against critisism of oppressive laws.

Religion and state should always be kept separate. Stories written over 2000 years ago have no place influencing government policies and how people live their lives today.
 
It is so sad and embarrassing how so many people are happy to attend the world cup just because they want to enjoy a 'game', when the tournament was only held in Qatar due to massive corruption with FIFA, not to mention the human rights issues.

I don't understand why people are happy to ignore issues as long as they can watch a game about a bag of air being kicked around.
 
Thom Merrilin said:
Yeah I dont know what weaponising compassion means either.

I should also add that I don't accept religion as a valid defense against critisism of oppressive laws.

Religion and state should always be kept separate. Stories written over 2000 years ago have no place influencing government policies and how people live their lives today.
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i disagree with that. “Oppressive laws”. “Stories written”? Disagree.

but on this point, let’s agree to disagree.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
It is so sad and embarrassing how so many people are happy to attend the world cup just because they want to enjoy a 'game', when the tournament was only held in Qatar due to massive corruption with FIFA, not to mention the human rights issues.

I don't understand why people are happy to ignore issues as long as they can watch a game about a bag of air being kicked around.
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Interesting question to ask on a football forum. :lol:

I understand your point but obviously not everyone is gonna be highly outraged by social and political issues and these things are pretty much endless everywhere. Bit harsh to blame people for just getting on with things they enjoy especially after the last two three odd years. At the end of the day we are just consuming one more product that is gonna end up making money for filthy cnuts something we are guilty of most of the time.
 
Thom Merrilin said:
Yeah I dont know what weaponising compassion means either.
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It's basically that solidarity with or compassion for the migrant workers and LGBT community has been taken as a slight against Islam, or non Europeans and furthermore isn't sincere but motivated by hate so it's not actually compassion but an attack, or weapon. Weaponised.

It's woven into the accusations of selective or agenda driven outrage and the vague shouts of hypocrisy.
 
united for life said:
i disagree with that. “Oppressive laws”. “Stories written”? Disagree.

but on this point, let’s agree to disagree.
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I accept we may not agree and I don't want to tell you what to think. What do you disagree with? Laws that punish people for their sexuality are oppressive.

How would you describe religious texts? They clearly were written and they are mostly made up of stories, tales, or whatever you want to call it.
 
moses said:
It's basically that solidarity with or compassion for the migrant workers and LGBT community has been taken as a slight against Islam, or non Europeans and furthermore isn't sincere but motivated by hate so it's not actually compassion but an attack, or weapon. Weaponised.

It's woven into the accusations of selective or agenda driven outrage and the vague shouts of hypocrisy.
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Oh I see, thanks for the explanation.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
It is so sad and embarrassing how so many people are happy to attend the world cup just because they want to enjoy a 'game', when the tournament was only held in Qatar due to massive corruption with FIFA, not to mention the human rights issues.

I don't understand why people are happy to ignore issues as long as they can watch a game about a bag of air being kicked around.
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In the latest john oliver show they showed a clip of a qatari gay man that really summed it up for me.

18:18 if anyone is interested:

 
This whole things about laws is also quite ridiculous. Every single society in the world has improved at some point by people saying "you know what, this law is fecked up". People treating laws like they're laws of physics that can't be contested or changed is such bullshit.

The normal reaction to a fecked up law is pointing out how fecked up it is and contest it and celebrate those who go against it, not "oh well, it's their law, just respect it."
 
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stevoc said:
Big if mate. And personally it would still be 3 too many for me if they happened because people were being forced to work in unsafe conditions.
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Again, it sounds insensitive but if it truly is something like 3 or a few dozen deaths then you should boycott every country with any manual labor. Even in America folks have died building skyscrapers in New York city as recent as a year or so ago. That doesn't indicate a systemic problem but incidental.

If we look at developing nations people die in labor and exhaustion all the time. It's weird to me the west goes all Pikachu face hearing about deaths from exertion in Qatar. The world does not exist like that. People put their lives at risk to work thousands die in places like India, Pakistan, China etc. These countries do not have the privileges of western society.

All this to say is having a "3 too many" stance is not feasible or logical. But if it's systemic that's a separate issue. I haven't looked at the rest of your post in detail but I will later. Interested to see if it convinces me that Qatar did have inhumane conditions outside of the norm for a non western country.

This and the slave labor claims, I have not found data or personal experience to back it but all the other criticism of them sounds right to me.
 
maniak said:
This whole things about laws is also quite ridiculous. Every single society in the world has improved at some point by people saying "you know what, this law is fecked up". People treating laws like they're laws of physics that can't be contested or changed is such bullshit.

The normal reaction to a fecked up law is pointing out how fecked up it is and contest it and celebrate those who go against it, not "oh well, it's their law, just respect it."
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Feel free to say that but is the end goal to show how messed up they are or convince them to change the laws?

If the latter I think socializing and participating helps a lot more than a boycott. Countries and nations evolve at different rates. Maybe Qatar is socially 80/100 years back according to Western standards. If that's the case, it would be best to bring them out of it.

If 100 years ago a more advanced civilization told England their homosexuality laws are barbaric I doubt it would have been received well. Just my 2cents
 
shamans said:
Feel free to say that but is the end goal to show how messed up they are or convince them to change the laws?

If the latter I think socializing and participating helps a lot more than a boycott. Countries and nations evolve at different rates. Maybe Qatar is socially 80/100 years back according to Western standards. If that's the case, it would be best to bring them out of it.

If 100 years ago a more advanced civilization told England their homosexuality laws are barbaric I doubt it would have been received well. Just my 2cents
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Watching what is happening, do you honestly see qatar trying to improve anything or change, even if very slightly?

Because I'm seeing the opposite, doubling down, and as moses mentioned, even making up new "laws" just to censor people.
 
I'm finding it really difficult to get at all excited about this tournament. Never really planned on boycotting the thing but so far of the 12 matches played I've watched a total of 15 minutes in one match before switching it off.

Will probably tune in for some of the knockouts but just can't find it in myself to give a feck.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
And the elephant in the room…

Where is the law that states Rainbows are not to be worn on clothing?

Where is the law that states that saying ‘I think everyone is equal’ is illegal?

If there are such laws over there, fair enough, but if not… it seems it’s actually qatar overstepping the mark, rather than anyone else!
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They're just flexing at this point. They are doing it because they can and there are no consequences.
 
RedTiger said:
What's your issue with that post?
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It is irrelevant and simply detracts attention from issues at hand. If the poster has an issue with Germans lack of response to the uhyghurs, they can start a thread?
 
shamans said:
Again, it sounds insensitive but if it truly is something like 3 or a few dozen deaths then you should boycott every country with any manual labor. Even in America folks have died building skyscrapers in New York city as recent as a year or so ago. That doesn't indicate a systemic problem but incidental.
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There's a huge difference mate between people who choose to work in construction in their own country where health and safety precautions are very high dying in an accident. And millions of migrant workers being exploited and forced to work in 50c heat, sometimes with little or no water for in some cases 70+ hours per week. And deaths occuring as a result of that.

shamans said:
If we look at developing nations people die in labor and exhaustion all the time. It's weird to me the west goes all Pikachu face hearing about deaths from exertion in Qatar. The world does not exist like that. People put their lives at risk to work thousands die in places like India, Pakistan, China etc. These countries do not have the privileges of western society.

All this to say is having a "3 too many" stance is not feasible or logical. But if it's systemic that's a separate issue. I haven't looked at the rest of your post in detail but I will later. Interested to see if it convinces me that Qatar did have inhumane conditions outside of the norm for a non western country.

This and the slave labor claims, I have not found data or personal experience to back it but all the other criticism of them sounds right to me.
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Fair enough mate the video in particular is very interesting and points to there being a very systemic problem with migrant workers in Qatar.
 
RedTiger said:
Every single subject devolves into whataboutism on this forum and the wider social media, every single subject left or right. Whataboutism won't stop because you're pointing out the date.
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But it can stop in this thread if people point out how stupid it is. You know perfectly well what's wrong with that post, I don't understand what point you're trying to make.
 
maniak said:
This whole things about laws is also quite ridiculous. Every single society in the world has improved at some point by people saying "you know what, this law is fecked up". People treating laws like they're laws of physics that can't be contested or changed is such bullshit.

The normal reaction to a fecked up law is pointing out how fecked up it is and contest it and celebrate those who go against it, not "oh well, it's their law, just respect it."
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Agree. The 2nd Amendment is probably most well-known example of how shit things end up being when an ancient law is still being taken as gospel.
 
I haven’t watched a single match or highlight yet. My country not being in it and all the controversy and corruption has made it so unexciting and uninspiring in the build up. It’s nothing like it was in my younger days. I will probably start half watching the knockout stages but for me at this stage in my life all I really have the time to invest in is United and Ireland (and a bit of complaining about both on here)
 
shamans said:
Are in agreement the 6500 deaths figure was a lie?

It now has me suspicious about anything regarding Qatar. Definitely more grey area here
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While not a complete lie (because thousands of migrant workers have actually died in Qatar) the 6500 figure that is thrown around is misleading at the very least because it's all deaths over a 10yr period and not directly connected to the World Cup projects.

Still it's pretty clear that conditions for a lot of workers on construction sites in Qatar (in fact all over the Gulf) are bad and need to be improved.

However there is evidence that there have been quite a few improvements implemented in Qatar in recent times due to the international spotlight the WC brings, more needs to be done or course but at least moving in the right direction

few articles here worth a read for anyone who wants to know the actual facts:

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-how-many-people-have-died-for-the-qatar-world-cup/a-63763713

https://www.theguardian.com/global-...-policy-workers-world-cup-2022-expert-verdict

https://www.qatar-tribune.com/artic...n-disinformation-about-workers-death-in-qatar

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decod...hs-on-qatar-construction-sites_6004375_8.html
 
RedTiger said:
Every single subject devolves into whataboutism on this forum and the wider social media, every single subject left or right. Whataboutism won't stop because you're pointing out the date.
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I am convinced posters on this forum don't understand the term and use it to shut down dissenting points of view. Anyone who screams whataboutism by default instead of attempting to understand the context of the counterexample isn't worth the back and forth.
 
As an old and tired man, I really don't have the energy to boytcott the event.

I'll get whatever dose of dopamine I can get, specially considering the record of Qatar main critics.

It is time people in power take strong stances against the kind of discrimination we are seeing, loading it all on the little guy is getting tiresome. This would mean that we vote for people willing to do such things. Alas, we never do.

Wibble said:
There could be a reason for that which involves jail time.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/n...-new-law-further-curbs-freedom-of-expression/
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I agree. Qatar is an incredibly small country, with only 352,536 local inhabitants. The remaining 88%, which comes to about 2,621,264 people, is composed of foreign workers according to this source from Wikipedia: http://priyadsouza.com/population-of-Qatar-by-nationality-in-2017/.

People in progressive countries still struggle with their sexual identity. Imagine being a culturally isolated member of a theocratic nightmare of a country. I wouldn't complain either.
 
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RedTiger said:
Every single subject devolves into whataboutism on this forum and the wider social media, every single subject left or right. Whataboutism won't stop because you're pointing out the date.
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Whataboutism is a term used by primarily Western commentators to avoid accountability and signals Western fragility.
 
The Corinthian said:
Whataboutism is a term used by primarily Western commentators to avoid accountability and signals Western fragility.
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I mean, I've seen you call out whataboutism in the palestine thread a few times. You even used the term.
 
RedTiger said:
Every single subject devolves into whataboutism on this forum and the wider social media, every single subject left or right. Whataboutism won't stop because you're pointing out the date.
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A lot of people don't realise how damaging hypocrisy is to credibility, no one is saying you have to be squeaky clean to point out injustices, but when you have German treatment of Ozil and German clubs going to the middle East for warm weather training it does seem a bit baffling, . Then you have Denmark who are making changes to their kit to highlight human rights but played in Tel Aviv a year ago without a peep, you can't make it up. Its not whatabouttery as all these actions are football related and connected. And when push came to shove they wouldn't stand up for it because of threats of yellow cards, it just comes accross insincere and hollow.
 
2mufc0 said:
A lot of people don't realise how damaging hypocrisy is to credibility, no one is saying you have to be squeaky clean to point out injustices, but when you have German treatment of Ozil and German clubs going to the middle East for warm weather training it does seem a bit baffling, . Then you have Denmark who are making changes to their kit to highlight human rights but played in Tel Aviv a year ago without a peep, you can't make it up. Its not whatabouttery as all these actions are football related and connected. And when push came to shove they wouldn't stand up for it because of threats of yellow cards, it just comes accross insincere and hollow.
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I guess the annoying bit is that that is being used a way to counter arguments of people in this thread. I have never silenced ozil, no one in this thread ever silenced ozil or supported it, but somehow that is an argument to counter what people are saying in this thread?

It's just a cheap and obvious tactic to change the course of the conversation.

And here we are proving it works.
 
maniak said:
I guess the annoying bit is that that is being used a way to counter arguments of people in this thread. I have never silenced ozil, no one in this thread ever silenced ozil or supported it, but somehow that is an argument to counter what people are saying in this thread?

It's just a cheap and obvious tactic to change the course of the conversation.

And here we are proving it works.
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My post wasn't about any poster on this thread, more about thr bad faith of certain organisations. The course of the conversation hasn't changed anywhere, the criticism is everywhere.
 
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