Boycott The Qatar World Cup?

moses said:
How many of your handful of posts on the caf are not trying to undermine opposition to Qatar?

What do you think of the actual matter at hand. Do you think Qatar has human rights abuses to answer for?
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It seems you've somewhat turned the page from the sanctimonious diatribes you have been on. I'm happy for you and I'm excited to engage in nuanced discussion about complex topics.

Yes, ofcourse I believe Qatar has human rigts abuses to answer for. As I've mentioned repeatedly, homophobic states such as Qatar, states that have draconian laws with respect to women or minorities such as Qatar, states where discrimination runs rampant such as Qatar, and states that make a trade out of the extraction and subjugation of others should be condemned. All of them.

Do I believe major sporting events should be held there? Probably not, as I dont believe they should have been held in many other places in the past.

Should I just sit here when people spew propagandistic talking points like "thousands have died from heat stroke alone building the stadiums", when this has already been completely disproven?

Should I just cross my arms when people mix legitimate protext with eurocentric babble like "it shouldnt be held there cause it disrupts the European calendar"?(potentially more, including the k-league, j-league, brazil, argentina, the libertadores, MLS, the chinese Super League, asia champion league, and many others are disrupted by summer world cups)

Should I just shut up when people single out this world cup for corruption, when corruption is an essentially institutionalized part of the bidding process?

Ofcourse not and I won't.

Look I think people have every right to protest this or any event or issue they take exception to. I commend them for it. I personally see it as important to hold up the mirror, in an effort to show people that there are also other issues they may be concerned about, a bit closer to home and perpetrated by their in groups, and that they may even be able to vote about.

Does this work? Well not as much as I'd hope. Ultimately people turn a blind eye to or entirely silence such things precisely by screaming whataboutism.

However, double standards have material effects on people's well being, and some would do well to act in situations where they themselves benefit from and even propagate injustice.

I ask you again. Do you believe pointing out double standards can be important? If so, when is it not whataboutism?
 
Foxbatt said:
No they are not hosting. The USA is the next WC. Russia got banned and thrown out because of their illegal invasion of Ukraine. Israel has been illegally occupying Palestine for years but nothing happens to them. Turkey is in Syria and nothing happens to them. Shouldn't they be banned by UEFA? It's utter hypocrisy by FIFA and other internal organizations. Yes Qatar or any of the middle east countries should never be hosting any international sports if human rights is the criteria. Just like many other countries.
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FIFA as you've pointed out don't give a feck about anything, all they're interested in is money.

Lot's of countries do bad shit we know this, it's always been the case and sadly always will be the case. If countries that have done or are currently doing some nefarious shit were ruled out from hosting the WC then that doesn't leave many potential hosts every 4 years.

The difference with Qatar that many in here seem to be missing is they are doing bad shit to host the Tournament as well as having draconian laws that discriminate against minorities. It's generally not football's job to police the world and try to influence politics and countries foreign policies. And no I'm not excusing or defending the actions of any country I'm against everything you've listed but the vast majority of developed countries won't need to ship in tens of thousands of migrant workers to work in virtual slavery and squalid conditions many of them dying in the process just to host the tournament.
 
To be honest the World Cup has lost the glitz and glamour (for me) with this latest Qatari iteration - there are certain things that are bigger than football. The same outcries should have been made when Russia was awarded the honor back in 2018.

The world cup is now an inconvenient distraction from an otherwise important season for United.

I hope the eventual winners this year make a statement during the cup presentation - human rights abuses need to be called out and sport is a perfect medium for it.
 
Ironically this is turning out to be the most talked about WC of recent times. I imagine even the boycotters will be more intrigued by this one for wanting to peek and know how it turns out. Because of the compact nature of the event necessitated by the small area of the host country - and because of the presence of asian/arab fans in large numbers - this is going to be a unique one in many respects.
 
DRJosh said:
To be honest the World Cup has lost the glitz and glamour (for me) with this latest Qatari iteration - there are certain things that are bigger than football. The same outcries should have been made when Russia was awarded the honor back in 2018.

The world cup is now an inconvenient distraction from an otherwise important season for United.

I hope the eventual winners this year make a statement during the cup presentation - human rights abuses need to be called out and sport is a perfect medium for it.
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The actual way people experience an event is related to many factors - from geographical location to personal situation, age etc. Personally, I felt that the last 2 WCs were somewhat dampened affairs compared to some previous ones. But I am very much going to be taken in by this one - simply because it is geographically near - and many of my relatives are going to the event and many Indians have a connection with Gulf countries in one way or the other. I feel that while Europeans may feel this one as a dampened event due to the controversies, it'll be diametrically opposite for many Asian countries.
 
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Mshafeek said:
The actual way people experience an event is related to many factors - from geographical location to personal situation, age etc. Personally, I felt that the last 2 WCs were somewhat dampened affairs compared to some previous ones. But I am very much going to be taken in by this one - simply because it is geographically near - and many of my relatives are going to the event and many Indians have a connection with Gulf countries in one way or the other. I feel that while Europeans may feel this one as a dampened event due to the controversies, it'll be diametrically opposite for many Asian countries.
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Great point.
 
Seeking out "hypocrisy" in everything seems like such a tiresome way to live. No one can say anything about X because Y did Z thing. Yes, let's never endeavor to try to improve anything because preceding events and circumstances are not perfect. In what way does this benefit everyone besides the mental masturbation that the people pointing out "morally selective outrage" indulge in.

I will ask this. I am from a small country. A former British colony. We are an exporter of oil and gas. We have never invaded anyone. Am I morally pure enough to be able to criticize something, or do I not pass the fitness test?
 
Mshafeek said:
The actual way people experience an event is related to many factors - from geographical location to personal situation, age etc. Personally, I felt that the last 2 WCs were somewhat dampened affairs compared to some previous ones. But I am very much going to be taken in by this one - simply because it is geographically near - and many of my relatives are going to the event and many Indians have a connection with Gulf countries in one way or the other. I feel that while Europeans may feel this one as a dampened event due to the controversies, it'll be diametrically opposite for many Asian countries.
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I can definitely relate to what you’re saying. In many ways it is unfortunate that a sporting celebration of such magnitude has to be marred by any sort of controversy. I can imagine the cultural connection that this event would have for fans in the region.

It’s a very complex state of affairs.
 
Cloud7 said:
Seeking out "hypocrisy" in everything seems like such a tiresome way to live. No one can say anything about X because Y did Z thing. Yes, let's never endeavor to try to improve anything because preceding events and circumstances are not perfect. In what way does this benefit everyone besides the mental masturbation that the people pointing out "morally selective outrage" indulge in.

I will ask this. I am from a small country. A former British colony. We are an exporter of oil and gas. We have never invaded anyone. Am I morally pure enough to be able to criticize something, or do I not pass the fitness test?
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It doesn't benefit anyone. The majority of it's just pure whataboutism either to deflect criticism from Qatar and/or as an excuse to bring up the evils of other countries. And you can guarantee that every person that cries about hypocrisy gets selectively outraged about many things themselves.
 
moses said:
And with all eyes on Qatar that's a good place to spend energy on a protest..
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Fully agree! I for one will only watch it if it happens to be on in the office or elsewhere. No dollar or pound will go from my pocket to that farce of a tournament.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...s-decades-hamad-bin-jassim-bin-jaber-al-thani


Sheikh who secured World Cup for Qatar has UK links going back decades
Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber al-Thani’s success is built on a remarkable network of political and business connections

But until this year, Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber al-Thani, Qatar’s former prime minister turned billionaire investor, might have escaped many people’s notice.

In June 2022, it was claimed that the Prince of Wales, now King Charles III, had accepted €3m in bags full of cash between 2011 and 2015 – donations to his charity, from the man known variously as HBJ and “the man who bought London”.
 
The lefties at Novarra Media on a Boycott

https://novaramedia.com/2022/11/14/should-we-boycott-the-qatar-world-cup/

The Marxists they are they attempt to discuss it structurally, without being partisan.

"Whether we boycott the Qatar World Cup or not, the workers who died building its stadiums will still be dead. But with proper organisation, we might prevent such barbarism in future. In fact, we might transform football altogether through coordinated fan action around everything from ticket prices to corruption to the sexism and homophobia still rife in the game. This all starts with proper discussions about where football sits within politics and economics. As Marx might have said, fans of the world, unite – you have nothing to lose but your fatalism."
 
stevoc said:
FIFA as you've pointed out don't give a feck about anything, all they're interested in is money.

Lot's of countries do bad shit we know this, it's always been the case and sadly always will be the case. If countries that have done or are currently doing some nefarious shit were ruled out from hosting the WC then that doesn't leave many potential hosts every 4 years.

The difference with Qatar that many in here seem to be missing is they are doing bad shit to host the Tournament as well as having draconian laws that discriminate against minorities. It's generally not football's job to police the world and try to influence politics and countries foreign policies. And no I'm not excusing or defending the actions of any country I'm against everything you've listed but the vast majority of developed countries won't need to ship in tens of thousands of migrant workers to work in virtual slavery and squalid conditions many of them dying in the process just to host the tournament.
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FIFA and the rest of the world sadly.

I wont be watching the WC.

I wouldnt even if Norway were in it, i really dont care anymore.
 
I just can't boycott what will probably feel like the last proper WC. The next WC will have 16 more countries participating! Qualifying for the WC is an achievement worthy of being celebrated and I'm not sure that will be the case going forward. I'll begrudgingly accept being pleasantly surprised.
 
Yorkeontop said:
I just can't boycott what will probably feel like the last proper WC. The next WC will have 16 more countries participating! Qualifying for the WC is an achievement worthy of being celebrated and I'm not sure that will be the case going forward. I'll begrudgingly accept being pleasantly surprised.
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I'd say a winter world cup brought to you by corruption is not really a proper WC anyways
 
Stack said:
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The full context of this clip is that the danish reporter is one of the most credible journalists. TV2 who he is representing is the 2nd biggest station in Denmark, so it's not a sensational media like Fox-news.

They had their official permission to film, but apparently it didn't rub the Qataris the right way. The media environment seems very controlled.
 
Cloud7 said:
Seeking out "hypocrisy" in everything seems like such a tiresome way to live. No one can say anything about X because Y did Z thing. Yes, let's never endeavor to try to improve anything because preceding events and circumstances are not perfect. In what way does this benefit everyone besides the mental masturbation that the people pointing out "morally selective outrage" indulge in.

I will ask this. I am from a small country. A former British colony. We are an exporter of oil and gas. We have never invaded anyone. Am I morally pure enough to be able to criticize something, or do I not pass the fitness test?
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This a 100%. The World would stop turning, if everyone should have a 100% clean slate to stand up for something
 
Won't watch it. Was unsure but there has been quite some momentum here recently where it seems plenty will boycott it so it kinda feels worth it to do as well (gloryhunter mentality I know).
It helps that I've become increasingly disillusioned with supporting the national team over the years with all the pathetic nationalism that comes with it as well as the increasing capitalistic exploitation of the sport itself.

Only bummer is that there's basically no bigger sport that I follow really going on in December, so there will be a void.
 
Really don't feel like watching the World Cup.
I will read the scoreslines online, visit the Caf for any United-related news (which United player is doing well, who scored, who's got injured etc.).

I have plenty of Switch and Playstation games lying around and I can always watch movies.
 
Heard an interview with an Indian migrant worker where he said he was absolutely thrilled about the World Cup being there as he couldn't imagine it would ever be in India so this is probably his only real chance to experience a World Cup live.

Not that that is any form of justification for this event happening in Qatar in any way shape or form, and no solace to a workers lost life, or one that's been treated horrendously, or simply just doesn't give two shits about football... but it was something nice at least through all the other shite.
 
ROFLUTION said:
I'd say a winter world cup brought to you by corruption is not really a proper WC anyways
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Is corruption odd for a World Cup? And surely, one day, we were due a winter World Cup? With it being a global game, and a game for all, I don't think it's beyond comprehension that sometime in the next few decades it was going to go to a place such as this. (I don't say this as any sort of justification for this tournament, and that we shouldn't do and expect better, rather that I don't think those two aspects stop it being a proper World Cup - simply that one is nothing new, and the other asepct inevitable someday).
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Heard an interview with an Indian migrant worker where he said he was absolutely thrilled about the World Cup being there as he couldn't imagine it would ever be in India so this is probably his only real chance to experience a World Cup live.

Not that that is any form of justification for this event happening in Qatar in any way shape or form, and no solace to a workers lost life, or one that's been treated horrendously, or simply just doesn't give two shits about football... but it was something nice at least through all the other shite.
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Do you think it's possible he might have been paid to say that mate? I mean what's the price of the cheapest group game tickets, £15-20?

I don't imagine too many of those guys working out there on £1 an hour will be attending the matches.
 
stevoc said:
Do you think it's possible he might have been paid to say that mate? I mean what's the price of the cheapest group game tickets, £15-20?

I don't imagine too many of those guys working out there on £1 an hour will be attending the matches.
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Don't think so - it was part of an overall fairly critical piece on Qatar. Sounded genuine enough - but even if it wasn't, it's probably true of some of the workers in the region (say taxi drivers/hotel staff or something - not necessarily stadium workers). I guess we'll see when the games start and we see the crowds but you'd think some will have saved up/got tickets somehow.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Don't think so - it was part of an overall fairly critical piece on Qatar. Sounded genuine enough - but even if it wasn't, it's probably true of some of the workers in the region (say taxi drivers/hotel staff or something - not necessarily stadium workers). I guess we'll see when the games start and we see the crowds but you'd think some will have saved up/got tickets somehow.
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Fair enough mate.

It's not the type of thing I would put past Qatar though given all the renewed bad PR about migrant workers there right now.
 
stevoc said:
Do you think it's possible he might have been paid to say that mate? I mean what's the price of the cheapest group game tickets, £15-20?

I don't imagine too many of those guys working out there on £1 an hour will be attending the matches.
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Most migrant workers aren't on those wages though, why have you assumed that?

Group stage tickets for residents is about £8.
 
Once a ball is kicked all this talk will faze out. It’s human nature. I won’t go into the politics of it before I get banned for not following group think. But the football will win most over eventually. Seeing the team arrive in Qatar is already bringing excitement.
 
MDFC Manager said:
Most migrant workers aren't on those wages though, why have you assumed that?

Group stage tickets for residents is about £8.
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Well I'm going off what I've read. I've read 8-10 articles in the last week alone with migrant workers claiming they're only making around £1 per hour.

How much do you think/know the average migrant construction worker makes?
 
therealtboy said:
Once a ball is kicked all this talk will faze out. It’s human nature. I won’t go into the politics of it before I get banned for not following group think. But the football will win most over eventually. Seeing the team arrive in Qatar is already bringing excitement.
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:rolleyes:
 
stevoc said:
Well I'm going off what I've read. I've read 8-10 articles in the last week alone with migrant workers claiming they're only making around £1 per hour.

How much do you think/know the average migrant construction worker makes?
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Well now you're specialising to construction workers. Sadly, and with the greatest of respect, those folks would most likely not visit an international sporting event in their home country either. The cheapest cricket World Cup ticket 2011 was about £6.

Those aren't the only migrant workers though. The skilled workers running into a few hundred thousands, would be able to comfortably afford the £8 group stage ticket, and as you can see from the videos, they're hugely excited about the event.
 
MDFC Manager said:
Well now you're specialising to construction workers. Sadly, and with the greatest of respect, those folks would most likely not visit an international sporting event in their home country either. The cheapest cricket World Cup ticket 2011 was about £6.
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Well I said migrant workers who were only making £1 an hour mate, between that and the context of this discussion I thought it was clear I was talking about migrant workers on the lower end of the Qatari pay scale.


MDFC Manager said:
Those aren't the only migrant workers though. The skilled workers running into a few hundred thousands, would be able to comfortably afford the £8 group stage ticket, and as you can see from the videos, they're hugely excited about the event.
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I'm aware, most of them will be on similarly low wages though.
 
Just decided that I'm only going to watch as part of social gatherings (can't afford to say 'no' to opportunities to be social these days). Won't watch any games on my own, will just check scores and maybe watch the goals here and there.
 
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