Boycott The Qatar World Cup?

ROFLUTION said:
Edit: also you gotta look at it in perspective - the more bad world cups, the more tension and frustration builds up. Therefore more people/countries speak up now. Thats about being fed up with corruption and sportswashing in the sport, which after all is the FA’s domain.

Then there is the actual military threat as we are almost neighbours to Russia - you can probably claim double standards on an internetforum, but does a small country like Denmark potentially want to start a bigger political debacle with Russia when the goal with them back then was to not do crazy stuff like Ukraine. Surely as a small country you measure your words a littlle more careful against a nation with nuclear missiles pointing at Europe
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See this is what I can agree with and what want to point out, alongside things I still believe are a cause like Islamophobia.

There are politics, and energy deals, involved. Qatar are a easy target for these European countries because they don't have any relation to them, yet, and are distinctly different in color and culture. Criticizing Russia back then could have caused more repercussions and therefore it was avoided by everyone, not just Denmark.

That's why I'm not at all jumping on the train saying the Denmark team, or other European teams, is so great for calling out Qatar's human rights issues. It's not all about morality but a lot about politics as well.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Oh so you're saying that you would feel better about Qatar hosting the tournament if they were bombing the UAE and occupying Dubai as long as they didn't hire migrant workers to build stadiums?
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you’re losing your shit here and not listening to the good points others in the thread are pointing out to you. You just want to argue, but not listening one bit to more posters than me pointing out that the FAs stand has to do with direct football related matters.Mustbe hard to understand/grasp for you, since you’re ignoring looking at the aspect of what an actual FA do. They deal with football matters, not war.

edit: oh nice to see you actually agreeing with some of it. You can only do very little as a small country. Seems unfair to bash a small country for not speaking up against a potential enemy of war in the EU. Russia has 143 mio people living there, we have 6.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
See this is what I can agree with and what want to point out, alongside things I still believe are a cause like Islamophobia.

There are politics, and energy deals, involved. Qatar are a easy target for these European countries because they don't have any relation to them, yet, and are distinctly different in color and culture. Criticizing Russia back then could have caused more repercussions and therefore it was avoided by everyone, not just Denmark.

That's why I'm not at all jumping on the train saying the Denmark team, or other European teams, is so great for calling out Qatar's human rights issues. It's not all about morality but a lot about politics as well.
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Your quest to find criticism of Qatar as clear islamophobia is severely clouding your judgement & making you make hyperbolic claims.
 
calodo2003 said:
Your quest to find criticism of Qatar as clear islamophobia is severely clouding your judgement & making you make hyperbolic claims.
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yeah that angle i dont understand neither - what FA would want to take that angle when there’s different etnicities in their own country in the squad. Makes no sense to throw the racist card imo. The Danish FA want players of all color to play for the national team.
 
calodo2003 said:
Your quest to find criticism of Qatar as clear islamophobia is severely clouding your judgement & making you make hyperbolic claims.
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I mentioned above that it's not just about Islamophobia but politics as well, but yes I still believe the is an element of Islamophobia involved as well.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
I mentioned above that it's not just about Islamophobia but politics as well, but yes I still believe the is an element of Islamophobia involved as well.
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Don’t think it’s the political angle that’s the ultimate judgement clouder here (if that’s a word), but oh well.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
See this is what I can agree with and what want to point out, alongside things I still believe are a cause like Islamophobia.

There are politics, and energy deals, involved. Qatar are a easy target for these European countries because they don't have any relation to them, yet, and are distinctly different in color and culture. Criticizing Russia back then could have caused more repercussions and therefore it was avoided by everyone, not just Denmark.

That's why I'm not at all jumping on the train saying the Denmark team, or other European teams, is so great for calling out Qatar's human rights issues. It's not all about morality but a lot about politics as well.
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You can hardly accuse them of Islamophobia just because they may or may not have been critical of the Russian governments foreign policy back in 2018. It isn't Islamophobic to highlight negative aspects of Qatar's hosting of the World Cup most notably their treatment of migrant workers, many of whom lets not forget are Muslim themselves.

You have to separate states from religion. Criticising Qatar is not tantamount to criticizing Islam.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Yea when you have no answer to the double standards, claim whataboutism.

We all know why everything was hunky dory when it came to Russia but they have a problem with Qatar.
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Aaaand just rinse and repeat with dark but veiled accusations of Islamophobia. Nice.
 
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hasanejaz88 said:
Aren't Russia accused of not only killing protestors and opposition in they own country but also engaging in warfare outside (eg: Syria). Oh and they had also invaded Crimea by then and engaged in a war in Eastern Ukraine, including shooting down a passenger airline killing everyone on it.
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I know you don't mean it this way, but by just calling it 'warfare' downplays what they really did there. They propped up and assisted a genocidal maniac who was gassing his own population. They even literally levelled whole cities (not only human loss but destroying historical heritage) with their air arsenal, people (mainly westerners) talk about how shocked/disgusted they are about Russia's conduct in Ukraine (rightly so) but we all knew what Putin and Russia were about well before and even during the 2018 World Cup. And it's disengenous to claim there was any similar level of energy against Russia than there has been for this world cup from certain parts of the world.
 
I won't be watching it either. More than 6000 have died due to heat stroke alone building these lovely stadia for folk to see the WC. Oh I'm sorry only 3 have died in total. The Qataris have brought over thousands of extra workers from poor parts of Asia so people like us can enjoy the WC and make sponsors some cash whilst they've worked in slave conditions without any chance of going back to their families. feck off Qatar.
 
Tyy
hasanejaz88 said:
Yea when you have no answer to the double standards, claim whataboutism.

We all know why everything was hunky dory when it came to Russia but they have a problem with Qatar.
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Hunky Dory? you can't just lie to make a point.

On your cries of Double Standards Russia has very well documented and protested human right and LGBT issues and they shouldn't hve been given the last world cup and there were protests saying as much which undermines your mania.

That said the situations a are different in lots of ways further undermining your mantra. In 1993 Russia decriminalised homosexuality and I think if Qatar do that a lot of the protest would fade. In 1999 Russia took homosexuality off their list of mental illnesses,yet this week a Qatari Ambassador said it was just that.

LGBT rights and freedoms have been growing slowly for almost a century and more people are gaining solidarity with their community. Your take on this changing landscape and progress is to repeatedly scream 'double standards'.
 
2mufc0 said:
I know you don't mean it this way, but by just calling it 'warfare' downplays what they really did there. They propped up and assisted a genocidal maniac who was gassing his own population. They even literally levelled whole cities (not only human loss but destroying historical heritage) with their air arsenal, people (mainly westerners) talk about how shocked/disgusted they are about Russia's conduct in Ukraine (rightly so) but we all knew what Putin and Russia were about well before and even during the 2018 World Cup. And it's disengenous to claim there was any similar level of energy against Russia than there has been for this world cup from certain parts of the world.
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Therefore we should ignore all subsequent human rights abuses by everyone?

The lack of logic and actual decency is astounding.

So now we are not saying there was no protest against Russia, just not the same energy. What also lacked energy was people trying to shut down the protest and basically attacking human rights. Well done you.for finding your voice.
 
ROFLUTION said:
Not in the same way, but the danish FA was not happy about it. Maybe it simply has something to do with the actual death toll in Qatar? There wasnt really specifics with Russia, other than you could accuse them of being a terribly run country.

After all, what they mostly aim at with Qatar now is what has direct relation to the World Cup - the corruption has actually never been fully documented, so that would be a wild accusation to throw at Russia without actual documentation.

Edit: also you gotta look at it in perspective - the more bad world cups, the more tension and frustration builds up. Therefore more people/countries speak up now. Thats about being fed up with corruption and sportswashing in the sport, which after all is the FA’s domain.

Then there is the actual military threat as we are almost neighbours to Russia - you can probably claim double standards on an internetforum, but does a small country like Denmark potentially want to start a bigger political debacle with Russia when the goal with them back then was to not do crazy stuff like Ukraine. Surely as a small country you measure your words a littlle more careful against a nation with nuclear missiles pointing at Europe
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Yes, unfortunately the linear nature of time escapes a lot of people.
 
duffer said:
Has anyone who was going to boycott, changed their minds?
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Nope, the level of toxicity and lack of empathy in these discussions have convinced me even more that football is really inconsequential in the scheme of things.
 
moses said:
Therefore we should ignore all subsequent human rights abuses by everyone?

The lack of logic and actual decency is astounding.
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I'm actually arguing the opposite, call out everything if you're going to do it,that's the more 'decent' thing to do and people will take you more seriously too. Otherwise you lose much credibility.
 
2mufc0 said:
I'm actually arguing the opposite, call out everything if you're going to do it,that's the more 'decent' thing to do and people will take you more seriously too. Otherwise you lose much credibility.
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Nonsense.

The major voices in this conversation are the same voices in most human rights issues, you've just decided otherwise for some odd reason.

Also human rights issues build and depend on new voices, no popular movement is born fully formed.,
 
I will watch it, because its a world cup. But I wont be watching it legally. I have every channel on my TV, but I will use IPTV so i dont sponser the viewership. I guess its something?
 
Andersonson said:
I will watch it, because its a world cup. But I wont be watching it legally. I have every channel on my TV, but I will use IPTV so i dont sponser the viewership. I guess its something?
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That was my take until the not so thinly veiled homophobia in this thread turned my stomach. My advice is to not read this thread if you still want to like football, or humans.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Well...it would achieve more than that, if we're being realistic here:

If a WC participant actually withdrew from the tournament at this stage for the reason we're talking about, it would cause a huge brouhaha - it would be immensely more impactful than wearing "hey, we're - you know - nice people who dig human rights" t-shirts.
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What would it actually achieve though apart from getting Denmark banned from every major tournament for the foreseeable?

And what about the Danish fans who have bought tickets, travel etc to see their team?

Sure there would be huge publicity for the relevant issues, but there is already a fair bit anyway
 
Rood said:
What would it actually achieve though apart from getting Denmark banned from every major tournament for the foreseeable?
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and? aren't we being convinced that all the things that are being debated here are more important than fecking football anyway? but it looks like no one is willing to sacrifice anything here, be it players, managers, pundits, TV houses, sponsors, TV watchers, literally nobody. all talkers it seems.
 
Rood said:
What would it actually achieve though apart from getting Denmark banned from every major tournament for the foreseeable?

And what about the Danish fans who have bought tickets, travel etc to see their team?

Sure there would be huge publicity for the relevant issues, but there is already a fair bit anyway
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In a human rights 'debate' , where nobody is actually saying there aren't human rights violations, who cares? That's all by choice and probably refundable, unlike who we are born to be.
 
Bole Top said:
and? aren't we being convinced that all the things that are being debated here are more important than fecking football anyway? but it looks like no one is willing to sacrifice anything here, be it players, managers, pundits, TV houses, sponsors, TV watchers, literally nobody. all talkers it seems.
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moses said:
In a human rights 'debate' , where nobody is actually saying there aren't human rights violations, who cares? That's all by choice and probably refundable, unlike who we are born to be.
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The question is, what would the Danish team (or any other for that matter) boycotting at this late stage achieve?

As far as I can see, the answer is nothing much apart from punishing players and fans
 
I genuinely fear Denmark having refs/VAR against us - we’re the most outspoken and the further you go in the tournament, the more potential problems for FIFA and Qatar.

It just seems logic for them to make Denmark go out of the tournament, knowing what people run FIFA/Qatar.

Other FA’s have their own problems with speaking up and therefore hold themselves back. Many of the big countries have all allegedly tried to bribe their way to hosting a World Cup, so they dont want to join in, as they could be called out for double standards.
 
Rood said:
The question is, what would the Danish team (or any other for that matter) boycotting at this late stage achieve?

As far as I can see, the answer is nothing much apart from punishing players and fans
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Really? You're being deliberately obtuse right?

Well it would set a precedent, which has always been the nature of building protest. Great historical symbolic gestures 'achieved' nothing in the moment. Usually they actually 'achieved' a material negative, like imprisonment, death or in this case of football fans, mild inconvenience. A certain amount might have to be sacrificed occasionally in the face of human rights abuses.
 
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moses said:
Really? You're being deliberately obtuse right?

Well it would set a precedent, which has always been the nature of building protest. Great historical symbolic gestures 'achieved' nothing in the moment. Usually they actually 'achieved' a material negative, like imprisonment, death or in this case of football fans, mild inconvenience. A certain amount might have to be sacrificed occasionally in the face of human rights abuses.
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Really well put.
 
I want to ask a question/raise a point without being accused of whataboutery and/homophobia etc.

I've been looking into the whole FIFA set up, rules and regulations, laws etc and it seems to me (please correct if I'm wrong) that during a tournament like this they, FIFA, have complete control over zones.

If I can simplify it in my own words, again please understand I'm being simplistic for the sake of simplicity here, what I understand this to mean is that FIFA become the law in those zones. Countries agree to this when bidding/winning. So in essence the countries laws, within those zones, cease to exist.

FIFA even have a military presence, so the navy in South Africa.

If all this is true and I have understood correctly then surely this is on FIFA not Qatar?

Again please understand Qatar's policies and practices are open to criticism like anyone elses. And I am in no way defending Qatar. However it would seem their laws within these zones are to be overridden by FIFA for the duration of the WC.

As I understand it this is no different to boxing events and concerts in say Saudi Arabia. If I can use an example here. Saudi Arabia have a process for hajj and Ummrah visas for pilgrims. A long winded and tiresome process and something I have done myself in the past. Yet for concerts it was simplified and given when purchasing tickets.
Again here different rules were in place for the concerts in terms of alcohol etc.

Sorry to go on here. But I just think of the zone thing and law changes are written in the bidding then why is there a discussion about Qatar not allowing certain things? FIFA are in control.

Or am I simply wrong and have misunderstood?
 
Roane said:
I want to ask a question/raise a point without being accused of whataboutery and/homophobia etc.

I've been looking into the whole FIFA set up, rules and regulations, laws etc and it seems to me (please correct if I'm wrong) that during a tournament like this they, FIFA, have complete control over zones.

If I can simplify it in my own words, again please understand I'm being simplistic for the sake of simplicity here, what I understand this to mean is that FIFA become the law in those zones. Countries agree to this when bidding/winning. So in essence the countries laws, within those zones, cease to exist.

FIFA even have a military presence, so the navy in South Africa.

If all this is true and I have understood correctly then surely this is on FIFA not Qatar?

Again please understand Qatar's policies and practices are open to criticism like anyone elses. And I am in no way defending Qatar. However it would seem their laws within these zones are to be overridden by FIFA for the duration of the WC.

As I understand it this is no different to boxing events and concerts in say Saudi Arabia. If I can use an example here. Saudi Arabia have a process for hajj and Ummrah visas for pilgrims. A long winded and tiresome process and something I have done myself in the past. Yet for concerts it was simplified and given when purchasing tickets.
Again here different rules were in place for the concerts in terms of alcohol etc.

Sorry to go on here. But I just think of the zone thing and law changes are written in the bidding then why is there a discussion about Qatar not allowing certain things? FIFA are in control.

Or am I simply wrong and have misunderstood?
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fifa and qatar have established ''fan zones'. they will be still policed by the qatari state and those in them will be allowed to drink alcohol, sing songs etc. the cops will be instructed to turn a blind eye to most things in those zones but you'd be well advised not to go outside them. i would also imagine that if you get assaulted or robbed the qatari cops won't be particularly diligent in securing justice on your behalf.
it all sounds grim to be honest.
 
moses said:
Really? You're being deliberately obtuse right?

Well it would set a precedent, which has always been the nature of building protest. Great historical symbolic gestures 'achieved' nothing in the moment. Usually they actually 'achieved' a material negative, like imprisonment, death or in this case of football fans, mild inconvenience. A certain amount might have to be sacrificed occasionally in the face of human rights abuses.
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Calm down mate - I asked a genuine question that's directly relevant to the thread topic (most of the discussion here is not) and it wasn't answered so I asked it again, don't see what's obtuse about that

Set a precedent for what exactly?
Note that the Danish team have already been the most vocal (and kudos to them) in their condemnation. plus they are set to appear in a special kit which the world will see on TV and will give commentators a good opportunity to mention the reasons behind that. If they weren't there then that won't happen.

The negative impact on players and fans is not the most important thing but when there are sacrifices to be made then the question of what exactly is achieved is very important

I don't see that a Danish boycott at this late stage achieves much apart from some extra publicity - in my opinion the time for a worthwhile boycott from national teams (when there was still time to get Qatar changed as a host) is long gone
 
Rood said:
Calm down mate - I asked a genuine question that's directly relevant to the thread topic (most of the discussion here is not) and it wasn't answered so I asked it again, don't see what's obtuse about that

Set a precedent for what exactly?
Note that the Danish team have already been the most vocal (and kudos to them) in their condemnation. plus they are set to appear in a special kit which the world will see on TV and will give commentators a good opportunity to mention the reasons behind that. If they weren't there then that won't happen.

The negative impact on players and fans is not the most important thing but when there are sacrifices to be made then the question of what exactly is achieved is very important

I don't see that a Danish boycott at this late stage achieves much apart from some extra publicity - in my opinion the time for a worthwhile boycott from national teams (when there was still time to get Qatar changed as a host) is long gone
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I am calm. Just amazed. And honestly is does seem odd that you are not aware of the details and timelines that got us the freedoms and liberties we have today. There are very few lightbulb moments in the history of protest and widening of privileges such as weekends, time off, voting and non segregation. Rosa Parks is famous, but by your logic she achieved nothing. Nothing came of her court case. Nothing. Still, what she did was momentous and hugely important.

The precedent of willing non-participation would be a huge blow to FIFA if it became normalised. These things take years, decades, even centuries.

What would it take for you to make a protest worthwhile?

No protester at an anti war march thinks the war is going to be stopped. It's all about increments towards critical mass or a tipping point in public opinion.
 
Can't remember which thread had the posts about Qatar offering free tickets etc to fan groups...

 
I'll be watching it. Love the fact that I don't need to change my sleep schedule to watch the matches for once. I don't think there are any overwhelming favorites this year, which also helps.
 
edgecutter said:
There seems little fanfare towards this world cup. I don't think I'll watch too much of and there seems to be a number of tickets still available for games. Hardly a success that Qatar would hope for.
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Its already a massive failure and any positive coverage Qatar thought they may get as hosts has been obliterated. They will look more like a corrupt, Island autocracy with a dodgy human rights record than a respectable nation that should be taken seriously and on par with other WC hosts.
 
Spoony said:
I won't be watching it either. More than 6000 have died due to heat stroke alone building these lovely stadia for folk to see the WC. Oh I'm sorry only 3 have died in total. The Qataris have brought over thousands of extra workers from poor parts of Asia so people like us can enjoy the WC and make sponsors some cash whilst they've worked in slave conditions without any chance of going back to their families. feck off Qatar.
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What's this now?
 
moses said:
I am calm. Just amazed. And honestly is does seem odd that you are not aware of the details and timelines that got us the freedoms and liberties we have today. There are very few lightbulb moments in the history of protest and widening of privileges such as weekends, time off, voting and non segregation. Rosa Parks is famous, but by your logic she achieved nothing. Nothing came of her court case. Nothing. Still, what she did was momentous and hugely important.

The precedent of willing non-participation would be a huge blow to FIFA if it became normalised. These things take years, decades, even centuries.

What would it take for you to make a protest worthwhile?

No protester at an anti war march thinks the war is going to be stopped. It's all about increments towards critical mass or a tipping point in public opinion.
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Your arguing against a strawman here - most of your post has little to do with the points I made or the subject of this thread.
I would prefer that you stick to commenting on what I've said rather than make incorrect assumptions about my logic on unrelated subjects.

Now to answer your question, I believe a protest is worthwhile either for publicity or because it has the potential to make a positive change.

I do agree that non-participation would be a blow to FIFA but I also think it's far too late for that kind of action now for the reasons I've already detailed.

Some countries say they considered boycotting 12/18 months ago - some even had a vote on it and all decided to play. That really was the time that this kind of action could have made a change, maybe it could have lead to a snowball effect of others following suit too which really would have been a worthwhile statement to push FIFA to take action.
 
VorZakone said:
He's referring to the migrant workers who died building the stadiums.
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They don't class them as work related deaths and all. Also the people who go to the likes of Qatar get loans to buy their airfare. Once they arrive in the Gulf their passports are confiscated, and they start workubg for 250 USD per month (Qatar WC) usually they live in horrible conditions. Most of them won't be allowed to go back home until the construction has been completed. One of the reason why their passports are confiscated is because the workers realise they're not actually earning enough to make it worthwhile to be away from their homeland and families. It's modern day slavery and it's disgusting. The stories I've heard have shocked me.
 
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