Borussia Dortmund 2016/17
- Thread starter Invictus
- Start date
I disagree. His first season was very good. Nearly every player was average or worse during Klopp's final season. He was world class last season.
I haven't read the full interview with Watzke but Kicker's own summary gives the impression "re-sign" is meant in the sense of hypothetically re-signing him from United and it's not about the 2013 deal.
the reason they quote is that "every intelligent player should think beforehand about what kind of enviroment he joins [this is probably about pressure]. If you're playing in a functioning enviroment, like Dortmund, it's questionable to let go of that straight away after things started to work out finally, after such a long time".
So in other words what he said apparently was never about the player's quality.
the reason they quote is that "every intelligent player should think beforehand about what kind of enviroment he joins [this is probably about pressure]. If you're playing in a functioning enviroment, like Dortmund, it's questionable to let go of that straight away after things started to work out finally, after such a long time".
So in other words what he said apparently was never about the player's quality.
Buying Schürrle was such a terrible idea.
Everyone knew it would be, why not the scouting and transfer geniuses of BVB?
Everyone knew it would be, why not the scouting and transfer geniuses of BVB?
Hasn't been that bad in his cameos IMO.
From an experience point it does make sense.
Mor, Pulisic and Dembele are all young and inconsistent so Schurrle being rotated in in certain matches/situations is necessary, as we've seen this season in the big games against Real and Bayern.
Thought Stefan Buczko summarised his arrival well in the summer here. Worth a read...
http://www.espnfc.com/club/borussia...-andre-schurrle-makes-sense-despite-price-tag
I disagree. For me it desn't make sense, as it's far too much money wasted and BVB isn't exactly filthy rich.
Anyway, from a football point of view it won't matter much with Reus back. Great to see him in action again, adds another dimension of class.
Anyway, from a football point of view it won't matter much with Reus back. Great to see him in action again, adds another dimension of class.
Reus is simply magnificent.
Feel like every time they attack, they can create a chance.
Their synergy in attack is amazing.
Their synergy in attack is amazing.
Imagine Reus,Weigl and Aubameyang in a United side, that would solve most of our current problems. Dortmund are a club that buy´s very well and also have Demble,Mor,Passlack and Pulisic and they are really promising young players. They went all out tonight and the game was a joy to watch and attacking football at it´s best.
Can't believe it was less than a year ago Klopp was giving them a lesson in Europe.
You meant Anfield
[And if this were an elimination game, the bernabeu would have done the same]
[And if this were an elimination game, the bernabeu would have done the same]
If by giving them a lesson you mean being 1-3 down at home until the 66th minute then of course I agree. If anything they were a better team last season in comparison to this one. Schooled Porto and Tottenham on the way to their shock exit against Liverpool.
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1- it wasn't a shock, Liverpool and BVB were almost on the same level
2- it's not hard to school this Spurs side
http://i.imgur.com/ZU95SbA.jpg
they were without their best players
I imagine he probably means scoring three unanswered goals after the 66th minute to win the game 4-3. But then I get the impression you knew that...
According to the bookies it was a shock. Odds before the first as well as before the second leg suggested a Dortmund win. Odds also suggested Dortmund to win the competition in general. Dortmund had won 7 of their 10 Europa League games (only Villarreal had won as many). Liverpool had won 4. Liverpool didn't even qualify for Europe in the Leicester/Spurs/Arsenal dominated Premier League last season whereas Dortmund were flying in the Bundesliga. But the part that made this a shock result the most was that Dortmund were 2-0 up and then got another one to go up 3-1 at Anfield. After 65 minutes Dortmund were seemingly not in danger of going out. Liverpool hustled hard whereas Dortmund fecked it up massively.
Perhaps I worded the second part poorly. I didn't mean "were a better team" in regards to the Liverpool tie. I said that because at first I interpreted Dumbstar's quote as a suggestion that Dortmund have improved massively since then. In my opinion they actually were far more consistent last year (at least so far). But I probably misinterpreted Dumbstar's quote.
Guaranteed BTTS.
I don't think that makes a shock result. It's like saying 99' was a shock, but it wasn't IMO. Liverpool last season were really good on huge/important games, you talked about Villarreal and the same Liverpool won 3-0 against them at home. You just knew they had the quality in them to beat a team like BVB last season.
Again. It wasn't liverpool, it was Anfield. Dortmund were cruising, then coutinho scores, anfield roars, and dortmund folds. Same thing happened to villareal, except they had lost before they even stepped onto the pitch
Coming back to draw a home game is considered schooling? Wow! 
By the same logic then Dortmund schooled Real tonight (away as well)!
By the same logic then Dortmund schooled Real tonight (away as well)!
I'm happy to be schooled as well!Coming back to draw a home game is considered schooling? Wow!
By the same logic then Dortmund schooled Real tonight (away as well)!
brb basking in the awesomeness of coming second in the group lol
The Stadium played a role, but I think the bigger factor was that it was Klopp they were up against. He played the most significant role in the development of the majority of the Dortmund players on the pitch and showed them the possibility of such a comeback (Malaga 2013) before, which made them nervous and scared and ultimatively led to the collapse. Without the Klopp factor that game probably would not have gotten that kind of own dynamic.
It's also the fact that Klopp's teams play a high risk high reward game. So the loss against Bournemouth and the win against Dortmund are both not exactly crazy results for them, since they're perfect capable of both scoring with ease and conceding so.
No, seriously, that was literally a matter of "yound and inexperience team goes to play into one of europe's most terrifying stadiums, can't cope with the pressure".
Remember when united went to milan in 2007? you could tell before the game began that they were going to get slaughtered. They were terrified of san siro
The only young and inexperienced players that game were Weigl and the subbed on Ginter. The rest of the team consisted of CL finalists, proven Internationals and players with dozens of CL games under their belt.The age average was probably around 27.
Don´t mistake last seasons Dortmund with the far younger one this season. We had a massive transition in terms of overall age this season, exchanging players in their prime with mostly U21 (top) talents.
No, that team was pretty inexperienced. Gonzalo Castro, Sahin, Weigl, Miki and Auba aren't experienced veterans, used to play a EL quarter-final in a stadium like Anfield. Add to that the fact the team was in his first year under Tuchel and coming off a horrible season, they'd been doing well and all, but still there were cracks. And then you have to consider the effect Anfield had on liverpool. Mix it all together, add a pinch of shock and disbelief, and you get the recipe of the disaster
Edit: thinking on it, inexperience is probably the wrong word. Let's say that team didn't have enough experience to react in that situation
These days we'd doubtlessly find some way to completely ruin them.
No, that team was pretty inexperienced. Gonzalo Castro, Sahin, Weigl, Miki and Auba aren't experienced veterans, used to play a EL quarter-final in a stadium like Anfield. Add to that the fact the team was in his first year under Tuchel and coming off a horrible season, they'd been doing well and all, but still there were cracks. And then you have to consider the effect Anfield had on liverpool. Mix it all together, add a pinch of shock and disbelief, and you get the recipe of the disaster
Edit: thinking on it, inexperience is probably the wrong word. Let's say that team didn't have enough experience to react in that situation
Not saying the atmosphere didn't play a role but that's just a lazy statement without much truth to it.
That game was Castro's 71st, Mkhitaryan's 65th and Aubameyang's 43rd European game. Mkhitaryan and Aubameyang had played a CL quarter final at the Bernabeu, and a round of 16 game at the Juventus stadium. Mkhitaryan had even played another CL knockout tie at Westfalenstadion prior to that (atmospheric and 1.5 times bigger stadium than Anfield), when he was still at Shakhtar. Both of them had faced Arsenal, Juventus and Real in the CL before, Mkhitaryan had also previous CL experience against Chelsea and another 2 games against Juventus. But what is more Aubameyang had already faced Liverpool in an EL knockout game when he was still at LOSC Lille.
Sahin has a Bundesliga and a La Liga medal. He got his first professional games at 16. He even played AT Liverpool for a while and was at Dortmund and Real Madrid prior to that.
All of these players have played for their national team. Mkhitaryan even is the captain of his. You can't compare any of these guys with Weigl who played his first season of 1st division football.
The others you named are every bit experienced enough for the occasion.
Dortmund hadn't just been "doing well and all" either. If you mention they were coming off a horrible season, then you should perhaps also mention that at the time of the game they were in the middle of an incredible first season for Tuchel. Everything was going brilliantly, they were scoring for fun, everybody lauded them, their offensive trio seemed unstoppable, and they had previously absolutely wiped the floor with Porto and Tottenham in 4 completely one sided games (2-0, 1-0, agg.: 3-0 | 3-0, 2-1, agg.: 5-1). They hadn't lost in 18 games in all competitions and had won 14 of those 18 (37 goals scored, 10 condeded in 18 games).
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Yeah because our entire defense was butchered by injuries.
Yes I admit it was lazy. It was a combination of factors, with Anfield playing a decisive role
Yes and how did those games go? How did they perform?
Yes and they got slaughtered
Leagues are a completely different beast than european knock-out rounds. Sahin was a failure at both madrid and liverpool
Again, not the same thing at all. Miki plays for Armenia, Auba for Gabon, Sahin had never played in a tournament with his NT
Yes, as I said, experience is the wrong word. It wasn't a lack of experience, it was a lack of experience and mental strength for a situation like that.
They also lost 5-1 to bayern and were playing for second place with no rivals since October/November. The german league is also very well suited for teams like that dortmund side to go on a great run, since it's a tactical nearly-monolithical league where the only difference in playing against the third and last-placed team is in the individual quality of the players.
A dreadful porto, tottenham's B team. They also finished behind krasnodar in their EL group. And I can't stress this enough, but knock-out rounds are an entirely different beast from anything else
What happened was, Klopp blitzed them in Dortmund, which took away some of their confidence. Then they show up at anfield and go up 2 goals in 10 minutes almost without trying, and they go from worried/respectful to overconfident, try to slow things down and control the game from there, something they were absolutely incapable of doing, which allowed liverpool to get back into the game. And then they react and score the 3rd, almost too easily, think the game's done, allow liverpool back into the game again, Anfield truly comes alive and overconfidence turns into downright panic, and they don't have the experience/mental strength/call-it-what-you-will to react, and they collapse as a result
@Skills maybe that was part of it. Nonetheless, cristiano and rooney looked like deers in the headlights before the game even began. They simply weren't ready for that kind of game in that kind of stadium at the time. Giggs was the only united player who did anything on the night, because he was the only one who'd already been there before(in fact, he'd even played in a bigger game -and won it-)
Clearly you don't. We didn't lose that game because the players were scared
So Tuchel isn't the second coming of Klopp now? Him struggling is a bit pleasing considering the amount to which Dortmund fans were bigging him up last season.
your stars were
Anfield one of 'Europe's most terrifying stadiums' that is a total different 'beast' than in league games and United players were scared playing in the San Siro in 2007. I've heard it all now
It's a bit weird to write something like that half a day after they drew in Madrid, set a new record for goals scored in group stage and won their group.
@giorno You're trying way too hard to squeeze everything into your little theory. Most of Dortmund's players are used to playing in a heated atmosphere, Sahin didn't even play that match and the team as a whole was completely oblivious to the crowd for most parts of the game, their game plan (controlling the lead) simply failed and because Liverpool had the necessary amount of good fortune Dortmund ended up bottling it.
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..and do it with so many young and inexperienced players in crucial positions at the Bernabeu. While some United fans think Rashford and Martial need five months off to recover from the physical and mental stress of playing 90 minutes on a cold night at Stoke.
Dortmund shows the inconsistencies of a highly talented, but young squad. Their highs will be higher than those of last year, but the lows will be lower. And they need to stabilize their defense. If Dortmund were able to keep this core together and add 1-2 players, they´d be a top 5 team in the world in three years.