Body Found in Tia Sharp's Grandmother's house
- Thread starter Randall Flagg
- Start date
Sweet Baby Jesus. I'm so glad I missed this.
it all unfolded minutes from my gaff, how dya think I feel I cant escape the feckin thing 
Its actually awful
Its actually awfulThe Catholics certainly think so..
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=58300
Though Gaddafi was pretty rugged in the day.
He looks like Uri Geller.
A massive bender?
I missed this thread, just to call out on the absolute absurdness, stereotypical Thatcheresque views of some posters, in particular alastair, and Erica.
Now bearing in mind, I'm a proud, proud socialist, and come from a long line of working class activists, my father was buried with a starry plough, and my mother is very political too.
I was brought up in one of the poorer areas in Dublin, not as bad as some areas, but very working class, but to say that a working class man or women is any more likely to murder a child, or be negligent enough to allow their child to be murdered, shouldn't be allowed out alone.
I may be a socialist, but class politics doesn't make much sense, I now rich people who are working class, and poor people who are elitist wankers.
You're class in no way defines you as a person, well it shouldn't, it's your morals, and being working class, doesn't have any impact on you're humanity.
Now bearing in mind, I'm a proud, proud socialist, and come from a long line of working class activists, my father was buried with a starry plough, and my mother is very political too.
I was brought up in one of the poorer areas in Dublin, not as bad as some areas, but very working class, but to say that a working class man or women is any more likely to murder a child, or be negligent enough to allow their child to be murdered, shouldn't be allowed out alone.
I may be a socialist, but class politics doesn't make much sense, I now rich people who are working class, and poor people who are elitist wankers.
You're class in no way defines you as a person, well it shouldn't, it's your morals, and being working class, doesn't have any impact on you're humanity.
As a fellow socialist, I say this with all due respect.
Know*, your*.
Know*, your*.
How has that got anything to do with class? It's a case of people who you think are down to earth are nice, and people who you think are arrogant aren't nice. Makes no sense whatsoever to bring class into it.
It's literally like no-one has a clue how to read. I've said about eight times in this thread that a working class person isn't more likely to commit murder, and yet people still don't understand. But alright, I'm a stereotypical Thatcherite.What a show that was. Been nothing like it since.
But aren't you simply inventing another class? The "they are working class but I have separarting them so that I can claim not to be saying that working class people are more likley to murder/be murdered/go to the wrong private school class".*
* delete as appropriate.
The Jeremy Kyle class?
The scratchcard class?
The go-abroad-and-leave-the-kids-with-twenty-quid-for-a-week class?
The scratchcard class?
The go-abroad-and-leave-the-kids-with-twenty-quid-for-a-week class?
"O people! Verily your Lord is One and your father [Adam] is one"
Aastair is related to me, and I'm a commoner.
Aastair is related to me, and I'm a commoner.
This was I think the crux of this thread, if I recall earlier posts.
Some people said the class system as it exists in the UK does not describe a growing section of the population who place themselves outside of normal society. Their behaviours are nothing to do with being working class and they are not working class. They never seek work, they don't send their kids to school, they allow their little kids to drink and smoke in front of them (I once saw a 5-year-old with a can of lager and a cigarette, mum was there too) and they live in absolutely filthy conditions, apparently by choice.
Most people here will never meet these people and probably don't even know families like this exist in the UK, you have to work in a job which brings you into their homes to understand what their lives are like.
(edit - I should add that I'm sure there's no evidence that these people are more often guilty of committing murder either, the point is that they don't seem to have any regard for anything - they place themselves outside of the society that the rest of us live within, and the things they choose to do would be rejected by the vast majority of other people, whatever social class they are).
Some people said the class system as it exists in the UK does not describe a growing section of the population who place themselves outside of normal society. Their behaviours are nothing to do with being working class and they are not working class. They never seek work, they don't send their kids to school, they allow their little kids to drink and smoke in front of them (I once saw a 5-year-old with a can of lager and a cigarette, mum was there too) and they live in absolutely filthy conditions, apparently by choice.
Most people here will never meet these people and probably don't even know families like this exist in the UK, you have to work in a job which brings you into their homes to understand what their lives are like.
(edit - I should add that I'm sure there's no evidence that these people are more often guilty of committing murder either, the point is that they don't seem to have any regard for anything - they place themselves outside of the society that the rest of us live within, and the things they choose to do would be rejected by the vast majority of other people, whatever social class they are).
Not at all, and I dislike the manner in which people deliberately misinterpret what I'm saying to try and make out that I'm doing down working class people. I respect whoever merits it regardless of their social class.
I've invented this 4th class, yes, because I feel the people who represent it do not fit into any other class category. Penna's post below describes how I feel.
You portray people as baseless animals, Alastair. You place all the blame for their social status and behaviour solely at their feet. You wash your hands of them like a good tory.
It appears unfathomable to you that this '4th class' of yours is the result of any social/housing/educational/welfare policies over the years. It seems that you believe that people choose to be this underclass.
It appears unfathomable to you that this '4th class' of yours is the result of any social/housing/educational/welfare policies over the years. It seems that you believe that people choose to be this underclass.
That's rather unfair, I have to say. I don't believe that Alastair is saying that at all. The folk he is talking about are not the product of any political party's policies, it's not to do with economics and they have no need to live in the way they do - I should add that the filthy homes I visited often contained the latest big TVs, in one case a full-size snooker table which filled the only living space (piles of dog mess notwithstanding).
The folk I described in my post have no internal moral compass. Why would you never bother sending your child to school, when it's only a few hundred yards down the road and completely free to access? It's abusive and absolutely wrong on every count.
So people having huge tv sets isnt because of the financial system which allows anyone with a pulse to get credit cards and loans which amount to several times their salary/dole cheque?
My personal experiences were in the days before easy credit, Badunk. The TV thing is a red herring really. I can't properly describe what I saw in some houses, because it was beyond comprehension. I used to visit these families as a midwife, I saw a lot of what was going on and it was disturbing.
These were not just disadvantaged folk, these were completely opted-out of-everything folk. They had the same benefits and help coming in as the family a few doors down the road, but they chose a different way of living.
I have every sympathy with people who find themselves in difficulties nowadays because of economic policies which have wrecked the lives of ordinary folk whilst making others rich. But this wasn't that, and at the time we were not in recession in the UK.
So what towns are we talking about here? Or which areas of cities? Any ex-mining or ship-building? Anywhere that had their main industry wiped out virtually overnight?
Because, while I'm not disputuing that the people you describe exist, and that some people will be scumbags, there has to be an underlying reason why people become like this. And I dont think it's entirely their own doing.
Because, while I'm not disputuing that the people you describe exist, and that some people will be scumbags, there has to be an underlying reason why people become like this. And I dont think it's entirely their own doing.
You may be right about it not being entirely their own doing, something made this happen because I simply can't see why people would continue to live that way when they really didn't have to. It wasn't all about economic hardship though, that's for sure.
It was in West Yorkshire. I don't know if this is relevant, but the families were always white British. In contrast, the homes of the many very economically-disadvantaged Asian families I visited were without exception clean and welcoming, if lacking in home comforts, and the welfare of the children was everyone's priority.
In fact, I'm somewhat in agreement with you on this. I sympathise immensely with the children in these families who end up becoming like their parents because they don't know any better. The cycle will continue on and on until we do something to stop it.
The problem is sadly shifting from lazy scumbags to people who have never seen a world of opportunity as a result of them. This is the 4th class.
pennared, no-one is doubting that the sort of people you're talking about exist. But I'm not sure there's any evidence the family involved is like that. Basically we didn't know a lot about them when this thread was started, except that Hazell apparently had a prior conviction involving a machete.
No, these people have no class.
I call them scum class. If that caught on, they'd aspire to do something with themselves.
Possibly with stating again that, according to the BBC, the grandmother was working the night Tia went missing.
I wasn't suggesting that the Sharp family are like this, the mum and step-dad come across as decent, normal, caring folk.
I'd like to know what's going on too.
I find it amusing that even children in some European counties and US, thinking of communism as evil.It's as if they've gone under a brainwash.
So this cnut changed his plea to guilty.
Hope he never gets out.
38 years minimum. So will be about 75 when he is released.
Life.
Which means he will probably be able to get out in around 30 years.
EDIT - Sorry he can get out in 38 years.
38 years is nothing compared to a young girl's life, the tax payers have to feed and cloth him and pay him a wage for the next 38 years, I am not really in favour of the death penalty but feck me sometimes I think we should.
And how much would that cost do you think?
Elvis' leftie alarm goes off in these threads. He can sense them a mile off.
If the law allowed it he could be could be put to death later today by hanging. Expense would be minimal. None of this waiting around on death row malarky
Agreed, rope is cheap it could be done in 5 minutes tops. Off with his head the cnut.
It's astonishing that this creature will be kept alive at great expense for the next 38 years.
A couple of decades ago I remember John Simpson pointing at the leg (shoe) of a tea lady buried in the rubble of a Belgrade TV station, when Blair and Clinton decided that murdering innocent Serbian citizens was a righteous cause. We can kill her, but we can't kill this piece of excrement because of our 'respect for life'?
A couple of decades ago I remember John Simpson pointing at the leg (shoe) of a tea lady buried in the rubble of a Belgrade TV station, when Blair and Clinton decided that murdering innocent Serbian citizens was a righteous cause. We can kill her, but we can't kill this piece of excrement because of our 'respect for life'?
Got this from the BBC
The average cost of keeping someone in prison is £47,000 a year
So 38 x 47,000 would be £1,789,000.
Plenty of better ways to spend that money.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-12879042
Had no real choice but to change his plea, they had way too much evidence against him. He had secretly filmed her in her sleep, searched for child porn (with terms including "violent forced rape" and "little girls in glasses"), had her blood on his belt and on a sex toy and his semen on the bed clothes where she slept. I think he also had pictures of her that appeared to be taken after her death.
After all that his lawyer pleaded mitigating circumstances because he hadn't planned it and he "probably" loved her. It's sick.
After all that his lawyer pleaded mitigating circumstances because he hadn't planned it and he "probably" loved her. It's sick.
If he lives that long. Someone's got his card marked in the nick: you can count on that. Same with Huntley. It's only a matter of time until he he gets offed.