blanc or o'shea?

you have the right not to believe me and i was not pretending that you are enough wise to believe in me.

Btw i dont write well because I am writing while i am working, so i dont care about the spelling mistakes

And about the Rover well Germans have bad tastes and crap players but definately they have good cars


Now let us go on the subject
 
The facts are

1 Blanc was brought last season to bring solidity
(mission failed)because our defense was never as exposed as last season.

2 He was brought in as Stam's successor.(mission failed) Blanc is slower, older and definately weaker than Stam.

3 Blanc a bargain? comeon. Last season our defense was ripped apart ( it wasnt entirely his fault but he was brought to give an identity and solditity to our backline which he failed) 50 m lost from champions league, league and all other trophies.
This season despite ALL his teachings and other bullshit ManUtd had to invest a farther 30M on Rio Ferdinard

Mind you its not his fault but i think that the PLc Cheap way to recover the Money spent on Veron And Van nistelrooy proved a complete sh*t

Blanc is slow and playing out of position( he is a world class sweeper but not suitable in a 4-4-2)
and definately not cut for the Premiership

And whoever thinks that I am against Blanc you are wrong. I have seen him BEFORE he came at OT, with Barcelona and back in france and i loved his elegant way of playing. But i repeat at 37 he is too old for manutd standards

I see O Shea as a better option. It is my opinion and as i respect yours, pls respect mine.
 
Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>The facts are

1 Blanc was brought last season to bring solidity
(mission failed)because our defense was never as exposed as last season.

2 He was brought in as Stam's successor.(mission failed) Blanc is slower, older and definately weaker than Stam.

3 Blanc a bargain? comeon. Last season our defense was ripped apart ( it wasnt entirely his fault but he was brought to give an identity and solditity to our backline which he failed) 50 m lost from champions league, league and all other trophies.
This season despite ALL his teachings and other bullshit ManUtd had to invest a farther 30M on Rio Ferdinard

Mind you its not his fault but i think that the PLc Cheap way to recover the Money spent on Veron And Van nistelrooy proved a complete sh*t

Blanc is slow and playing out of position( he is a world class sweeper but not suitable in a 4-4-2)
and definately not cut for the Premiership

And whoever thinks that I am against Blanc you are wrong. I have seen him BEFORE he came at OT, with Barcelona and back in france and i loved his elegant way of playing. But i repeat at 37 he is too old for manutd standards

I see O Shea as a better option. It is my opinion and as i respect yours, pls respect mine.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, I am not Blanc's biggest fan but I must say he has done a pretty good job for us especially this season. If it's any consolation to you, this is blanc's final season before he walks out for good so you only have to wait for slightly more than half a year before that happens.

Personally, I would like to see gary neville and rio in the centre of defence.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>

Well, I am not Blanc's biggest fan but I must say he has done a pretty good job for us especially this season. If it's any consolation to you, this is blanc's final season before he walks out for good so you only have to wait for slightly more than half a year before that happens.

Personally, I would like to see gary neville and rio in the centre of defence.</strong><hr></blockquote>


IMO Gaz can make a very good central defender. He did marvelous jobs partnering Stam in the center in the past. The problems are there though:

1. Gaz moving into center leaves too much room open on the right side because there are no good substitutes and we will lose a good partner to Becks. Wes can do a job here, but O'Shea will not be given enough chances to surface into the first team.

2. Gaz is a little bit too short to stand the likes of Shearer on the air.

3. Gaz is not particularly good at man marking and have been known to get caught out, so he'll be fried against Henry.

4. Blanc is still here and is still doing an alright job if not the best. Apart from this we have O'Shea surfacing in the center, but none on the right except Wes who likes to get injured. I don't think i trust Philip to stand in as a starting 11 on the right side.

For these reasons, I believe we're better off using Blanc for now.
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The real problem lies on what will happen next year.

With Blanc retiring (hopefully) I predict that Another central back will be brought to compensate him

WHY? SIMPLE

G Neville ( is judged to be not of a central back shape)

O Shea ( too young and not experienced enough to hold a first team place)

W Brown ( injury prone)

Silvestre ( seen as more comftable on the left)

So I ask. Why dont we check our current talent NOW and then judge later whether we should bring a new defender or not?

Blanc is getting slow and at 37 I seriosly doubt whether he can withstand an entire season.

Giving space to the other players is a must
 
[So I ask. Why dont we check our current talent NOW and then judge later whether we should bring a new defender or not?

Blanc is getting slow and at 37 I seriosly doubt whether he can withstand an entire season.

Giving space to the other players is a must[/QB][/QUOTE]
 
I hate to bring it up, as all the Man Utd fans who support Blanc will surely crucify me, but while I don't have the figures any more, the statistical breakdown is that we conceeded something like half a goal a game more with Blanc in the team than when he was out of it. Ronny J was the exact opposite - he shored the defence up most, with G. Nev. playing in the middle also having an effect. So Blanc didn't pick up last year - he got covered for.

Don't think for a moment that I don't rate Blanc - I watched him a few years back, and he made Desailly look crap. Desailly is far from crap. But, like Seaman, Blanc is getting old. He can provide all that wonderful instruction on the training ground as well as he can by playing.
O'Shea is 6'7" - a true GIANT of a man, who's already marked great strikers off the pitch.

Put it this way: if Henry breaks clear of back-line, there literally isn't a footballer in England who can catch him. He's almost 2 kph faster than Owen. Who do you think has a better chance of beating him to the ball - Blanc or O'Shea? Blanc's positioning is good, great even, but he's not prescient. But O'Shea is fast.
 
I read 6' 7" in the Sunday Tribune last weekend - it did sound a bit high to me. Still, he is big, and he's proven very composed and compitant in the air
 
Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>The facts are

Blanc is slow and playing out of position( he is a world class sweeper but not suitable in a 4-4-2)
and definately not cut for the Premiership</strong><hr></blockquote>

France have been playing with a back 4 over the past few successful years.

'Definately not cut for the Premiership'? Well, you may go to every single manchester united match until the end of your life, but if won't change something: You're clueless about football.
Click to expand...
 
Give it a rest people. O'Shea is a huge talent, but the last huge defensive talent we've had is now sitting on the sidelines with another injury after having a bit of a mental break down.

No matter how good O'Shea is, we can afford to ease him into the team because we already have two superb centerhalves who play well together. Stop rushing it!

If Henry breaks the only one who can stop him is the goalkeeper. O'Shea's chances of stopping him are probably no more than those of Blanc anticipating the move and stopiing it beforehand.
 
Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>Wes might have had injuries, but a couple of own goals doesn't mean he's had a mental breakdown. :rolleyes: </strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm exaggerating ofcource, but he was doing brilliantly for a long period of time when Jaap was out in 2000/01, and then at some stage he just wasn't the same player. Not for the last couple of months of that season or as we know, the months before his injust last season.

Alright, so mental breakdown is hardly the right words, but maybe he was pushed more than he should have been (we didn't have a choice ofcourse with players like Jaap and Johnsen out for long streches).

A centerhalf is a very difficult position mentally, in a way even worse than a goalkeeper because you're blamed for goals but very rarely gets to actually be a hero. O'Shea's a great talent, but if we can ease him into a great long term role, we should be happy to do it the right way.
Click to expand...
 
JOHN O SHEA plays for IRELAND LIKE ( OR USED TO BE)KEANO

Secondly what do you think of blanc's performances against Fulham? Ok the penalty wasnt his fault but he did showed his lack of pace a couple of times.

Ehh btw no one have compared blanc with his ancestor Stam. the results show by themselves whether we walked or not o the right direction

I believe that blanc wasnt half as good as Jaap Stam and a fully fit Johnsen. Dont tell me about the honours he won out of OT, they are other ppl stuff not ours.

the facts are that unfortunately next season we will have to invest on another world class central defender because

1 Blanc is retiring
2 the other options does not have the experience needed for such a responsable role
 
devilish why dont you bring these matters up with Fergie next time you meet him and tell him to his face how you believe United havent benefitted from having Blanc around. :rolleyes:

as to whoever posed the question: who would catch Henry if he broke clear..Blanch or O'Shea, the answer is off course NEITHER would catch him if he broke CLEAR. what a stupid arguement.
 
Originally posted by golden_blunder:
<strong>devilish why dont you bring these matters up with Fergie next time you meet him and tell him to his face how you believe United havent benefitted from having Blanc around. :rolleyes:

as to whoever posed the question: who would catch Henry if he broke clear..Blanch or O'Shea, the answer is off course NEITHER would catch him if he broke CLEAR. what a stupid arguement.</strong><hr></blockquote>


But O'Shea would stand more chance than Blanc.

Regardless of whether Blanc is/was a brilliant defender, United haven't benefitted from having him. We didn't win anything last season. And it stands to reason that this season he's going to be even slower.

Tbh, he never looks interested to me.
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Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>


But O'Shea would stand more chance than Blanc.

Regardless of whether Blanc is/was a brilliant defender, United haven't benefitted from having him. We didn't win anything last season. And it stands to reason that this season he's going to be even slower.

Tbh, he never looks interested to me.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Liv, how can you say that United havent benefitted from having him? Study O'Sheas game..who does it remind you off? yes indeed big parts of Blancs game in the way o'shea plays.
Blanc has probably done more for the United defence (in a postive learning role) than we will ever know.

Whilst i agree he is not the long term solution, i dispute the 'pace' issue put forward by those who dont rate him. Probably the same ones who think Stam should still be here.
Blancs game has never been about pace, Fergie knew that when he signed him as will any followers of french & italian footy. His game has always been about the superior reading, which IMO he still displays.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by golden_blunder:
<strong>

Liv, how can you say that United havent benefitted from having him? Study O'Sheas game..who does it remind you off? yes indeed big parts of Blancs game in the way o'shea plays.
Blanc has probably done more for the United defence (in a postive learning role) than we will ever know.

Whilst i agree he is not the long term solution, i dispute the 'pace' issue put forward by those who dont rate him. Probably the same ones who think Stam should still be here.
Blancs game has never been about pace, Fergie knew that when he signed him as will any followers of french & italian footy. His game has always been about the superior reading, which IMO he still displays.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes fair enough, we might have benefited from him being around and passing on his experience and his influence etc. But I don't think we've benefitted from him actually playing because we've won nowt. He's been immense in some games and I think he was man of the match a few times last season, but I don't think he's been anything special this year. The ability to read a game isn't a lot of good if you're not able to transfer the info. to your performance. There was absolutely no need for that penalty on Saturday - and when even Paddy Crerand criticizes a United player, you need to take notice!
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Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>

Yes fair enough, we might have benefited from him being around and passing on his experience and his influence etc. But I don't think we've benefitted from him actually playing because we've won nowt. He's been immense in some games and I think he was man of the match a few times last season, but I don't think he's been anything special this year. The ability to read a game isn't a lot of good if you're not able to transfer the info. to your performance. There was absolutely no need for that penalty on Saturday - and when even Paddy Crerand criticizes a United player, you need to take notice!</strong><hr></blockquote>

i thought the penalty awarded was harsh myself.
What should have been a penalty was when O'Shea practically took the shirt of Sava. yet no-one mentions that.
But, i take your point, he hasnt been consistently as good this year (so far) as he was last year. But then again, who has been?
Beckham for example has been awful for most of this season so far, yet no-one has suggested that he should be dropped.
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Originally posted by golden_blunder:
<strong>

i thought the penalty awarded was harsh myself.
What should have been a penalty was when O'Shea practically took the shirt of Sava. yet no-one mentions that.
But, i take your point, he hasnt been consistently as good this year (so far) as he was last year. But then again, who has been?
Beckham for example has been awful for most of this season so far, yet no-one has suggested that he should be dropped. </strong>
I don't think Beckham has been awful.

What I do think is that he should make his mind up about whether or not he wants to be a midfielder or a defender. How many times did we see him in the RB position on Saturday?? Too many times lately he seems to swap positions with Gary Neville.

Sometimes it pays off and we're grateful for a clearance or something - but he is playing far too deep to be as effective as he can be.
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i think what youre describing there Liv is a little bit of a 'leftover' from when Gary Neville wasnt playing. Maybe he felt he needed to help out Phil/O'Shea/Wes or whoever else was playing RB when Gary wasnt there. which is fair enough i guess, but now Gary Neville is back,fit and playing well, Becks should be looking to play in the opposition half a bit more.
Maybe i was a bit harsh in saying Becks has been awful this year but by his own standards he hasnt been playing well. His crossing and passing have at times been very poor. Its looked at times like hes carrying an injury or is simply knackered. After all, hes played pretty much non-stop (including WC/England duty) since he came back from his broken foot. I think we would benefit if he was given one of fergies 'rests' so that hes fit and raring to go after christmas.
But then, that begs the question: who have we got to replace him at this stage for the right side of midfield?
 
Have you ever heard about propoganda?

Stam came at OT with an enormous reputation. He was inspirational in the treble winning team, voted as Manutd best ever defender and also FIFA best defender. Fergie claimed that Stam was a column in our team, a mentor for 2 young homegrown talents (Brown and Wallwork) and incredibliy important in the settling down of another star Silvestre.

Then the diary came

AND Suddenly Stam wasnt good anymore. He havent thought anything to the team and wasnt even able to hold a regular place in our defense.

The result was that Blanc came to the rescue of a disastrous defense ( which the season before had won the league with only 11 points lol). Goals were leaking out and though it wasnt completely Blanc fault HE WAS THE MAN RESPONSABLE FOR OUR DEFENSE.

And yet Blanc is doing fine for Manutd according Fergie. Without him Rio and John would be selling hot dogs instead of playing football isnt't?

I have full respect of fergie and Blanc, but i have brains to think alone without any help of anyone

the facts are that neither Stam nor A Cole were effectively replaced.

The facts are that Manutd are on the decline

and the facts are that Blanc WAS and WILL NEVER, EVER REACH STAMs STANDARDS at OT

I love Stam and I cannot understand why he was treated like that for one silly mistake. He was a colossus in our defense and NO ONE neither Alex Ferguson can claim anything against that
 
get over it dude, hes gone.
book or no book Stam was in decline (for whatever reason) in his last few months at OT.
 
Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>

I love Stam and I cannot understand why he was treated like that for one silly mistake. He was a colossus in our defense and NO ONE neither Alex Ferguson can claim anything against that</strong><hr></blockquote>


I totally agree.

And whatever his form is like now, I don't think form was the reason for his departure. Any player who had done as much for United as Jaap did should have been given more time to get over his injury, if he wasn't back up to form.

If we sell out of form players that quickly we wouldn't have a squad left.
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Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>


I totally agree.

And whatever his form is like now, I don't think form was the reason for his departure. Any player who had done as much for United as Jaap did should have been given more time to get over his injury, if he wasn't back up to form.

If we sell out of form players that quickly we wouldn't have a squad left.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Too true, considering the time given to Giggs, and Johnsen, after their injuries, it doesn't make sense. Keane said, in his book, that he thought Stam didn't have the subtlety for the CL - but it was with him that we won the CL and he was voted the CL's best defender.
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well, whatever the reason..theres no point crying about it now ;)
its debatable whether Stam could have helped us win any trophies last season or not.
 
I agree that Blanc had been wonderful in certian games, sometimes even spectacular but the point is that

1 Definately Blanc is inferior to his ancestor.
2 We could have brought a better player to do his
job
3 The defense grew weaker not stronger with Blanc instead of Stam

I can point at least 12 defenders which could have done better than Blanc

1 Stam
2 Hypia
3 Nesta
4 Campbell
5 Cannavaro
6 R Ferdinand
7 Samuel
8 Ayala
9 Maldini
10 Kaladze
11 Montero
12 me ( joking )
 
Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>
I can point at least 12 defenders which could have done better than Blanc

10 Kaladze
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yep, stick a left back into the center of our defence, he'll do just fine.

Boy, sometimes you make sense (although I don't agree with you) and sometimes you just talk out of the wrong parts of your body.

You NEVER know how a player will adapt. So throwing the names of world class defenders with the certain assumption they will all do better than someone else is silly.

And I'm sick and tired of hearing about Jaap Stam. How about Steve Bruce? Should never have let him go to Birmingham in 1996 I tell ya.

Blanc's sheer class :cool:
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it seems that you have NEVER seen the Serie A in your life

Kaladze is a wonderful defender with charateristics very similar to those of Ronnie Johnsen

He can play as a left back and as a defensive midfielder, but his natural position is that of a central back.

Currently Ancelotti is utilising him as a left back for two reasons

1 Because he want more experience in the heart of the defense ( And he is having it with Maldini)

2 Because Maldini is not capable to give those elegant overlaps he used to give in the past.

THIS IS KALADZE'S MAIDEN SEASON AS A LEFT BACK

and btw even though you cannot be 100 per cent certian that these players would be even better than Blanc, you dont need a lot of imagination to imagine Hypia or Nesta giving a better performance than larry.

After all as you have just said they ARE ( and not WERE) world class players
 
Easy guide for Amir on players who can play both as a full back and a central defender

G Neville , Brown, O Shea and Silvestre ( they are manutd players you know?)

Chivu
Maldini
Kaladze
Campbell
Ehiogu
Escude
Burdisso
Cannavaro
Thuram
Birindelli
Cordoba
Mihailovic

and the least go on and on
 
I'm sure Phil Neville can also play centerhalf. Doesn't mean he does it. Same goes for Kaladze. A better centerhalf than Blanc? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
 
Geez.. We DON'T have Stam NOW. What we do have is Blanc. Maybe Stam was sold because of the book, maybe he wasn't, we may never know. My personal opinion it's the book that got him sold.
Yes Stam is a wonderful defender (I've seen him made Vieri completely useless in serie A last game last season), yes he was inspirational in the treble season, but we don't have him now, nor the 12 others defenders you listed here.
Blanc is the best we got now. O'Shea maybe talented enough to be a better player than Blanc at his best. But he's not a complete article yet. I don't want him to be rushed in and suffered the same fate as Brown. If by playing Blanc could help in O'Shea progress (by not rushed him into the first team) then be it.
 
Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>Have you ever heard about propoganda?

Stam came at OT with an enormous reputation. He was inspirational in the treble winning team, voted as Manutd best ever defender and also FIFA best defender. Fergie claimed that Stam was a column in our team, a mentor for 2 young homegrown talents (Brown and Wallwork) and incredibliy important in the settling down of another star Silvestre.

Then the diary came

AND Suddenly Stam wasnt good anymore. He havent thought anything to the team and wasnt even able to hold a regular place in our defense.

The result was that Blanc came to the rescue of a disastrous defense ( which the season before had won the league with only 11 points lol). Goals were leaking out and though it wasnt completely Blanc fault HE WAS THE MAN RESPONSABLE FOR OUR DEFENSE.

And yet Blanc is doing fine for Manutd according Fergie. Without him Rio and John would be selling hot dogs instead of playing football isnt't?

I have full respect of fergie and Blanc, but i have brains to think alone without any help of anyone

the facts are that neither Stam nor A Cole were effectively replaced.

The facts are that Manutd are on the decline

and the facts are that Blanc WAS and WILL NEVER, EVER REACH STAMs STANDARDS at OT

I love Stam and I cannot understand why he was treated like that for one silly mistake. He was a colossus in our defense and NO ONE neither Alex Ferguson can claim anything against that</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree about stam - he was definitely a giant in our defense and was one of my favourite players at OT.
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Kaladze IS a central back. He had been groomed and he still play with Georgia AS A CENTRAL BACK.

Last season due to injuries Ancelotti had tried to play him as a defensive midfielder, an experiment that worked well. So this season ( ONLY) he has been playing him ( with success ) as a left back.

Kaladze is a wonderful player who can play in many positions. I guess Amir you should learn a bit about international football, you are being ridiculous <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
 
This is our problem. If Blanc is not at our level, we should replace him by

1 either bringing in one from the youths
2 buying someone
 
Amir Sir Alex is wonderful manager but your views about him is not of a good manager but of GOD.

I guess that you think that he is the new messiah dont you? (joking)

Ferguson had built Manutd's empire, but unfortunately the facts show that Manutd are on the decline, and the gaffer has an important share of responsability in it

why?

1 the 4-4-1-1 formation is crap
2 Selling Cole AND stam have weakened not strenghtened the team
3 thier successors where not up to the level
4 His tactics ( relying on the wings and cross to van nistelrooy's head ) is old

I am not saying that the gaffer need to be replaced, but definately HE DO SOME MISTAKES

btw i had once one of those hairdryers. They are up to their fame believe me !!!!!
 
Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>This is our problem. If Blanc is not at our level, we should replace him by

1 either bringing in one from the youths
2 buying someone</strong><hr></blockquote>

1. There isn't anyone good enough
2. a world class defender who isn't cup-tied? it would take alot of money which I don't think the PLC would want to spend..
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I agree with you over this issue Reelworld. Yet I think this issue should had been solved before the season started not now
 
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