Billy No Mates Draft

Rob Rensenbrink

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1. Joga Bonito - 1. Maradona 2. Krol 3. Thuram 4. Breitner 5. Stoichkov 6. Monti 7. Tresor 8. Law 9. Gerets 10. 11. 12.
2. Sjor Bepo/Viva Januzaj - 1. Messi 2. Keane 3. Charlton 4. Djalma Santos 5. Schnellinger 6. Hansen 7. Makelele 8. Sivori 9. Schwarzenbeck 10. 11. 12.
3. harms - 1. Pelé 2. P. Falcão 3. Rummenigge 4. Ferdinand 5. Lahm 6. Netzer 7. Bossis 8. Vierchowod 9. Busquets 10. Rensenbrink 11. 12.
4. mazhar13 - 1. Beckenbauer 2. Nilton Santos 3. Desailly 4. Conti 5. Gullit 6. Rivera 7. Förster 8. Xabi Alonso 9. Del Piero 10. Kocsis 11. 12.
5. Tuppet - 1. Alfredo Di Stéfano 2. Gerd Muller 3. Passarella 4. Jairzinho 5. Boniek 6. Junior 7. Hierro 8. Coluna 9. V. Andrade 10. Nasazzi 11. 12.
6. Physiocrat - 1. Best 2. Neeskens 3. Luis Suarez Miramontes 4. Rivaldo 5. Vogts 6. Marzolini 7. Schweinsteiger 8. Thiago Silva 9. Ricardo Carvalho 10. Vieri 11. 12.
7. The Stain - 1. Luis Ronaldo 2. Džajić 3. Kohler 4. Nedved 5. Robson 6. Scholes 7. Obdulio Varela 8. Shesternyov 9. Dani Alves 10. Ricardo Zamora 11. 12.
8. Balu/crappy- 1. Eusébio 2. Scirea 3. Masopust 4. D. Edwards 5. Czibor 6. Lizarazu 7. Burgnich 8. Costacurta 9. Beckham 10. Gordon Banks 11. 12.
9. Stobzilla - 1. Maldini 2. Moore 3. Carlos Alberto 4. M. Laudrup 5. Kubala 6. Hamrin 7. Blokhin 8. Didi 9. Domingos Da Guia 10. Popescu 11. 12.
10. RedTiger/Marty1968 - 1. Puskas 2. Matthaus 3. Gentile 4. Matthews 5. R. Carlos 6. Neymar 7. Suurbier 8. Vieira 9. Sanchez 10. Ayala 11. 12.
11. diarm - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. Zidane 3. Ronaldinho 4. Batistuta 5. Santamaria 6. Bergomi 7. Koeman 8. Ocwirk 9. Voronin 10. De Vecchi 11. 12.
12. Gio - 1. Zico 2. Facchetti 3. Nesta 4. Bozsik 5. Iniesta 6. Souness 7. Andrade 8. Chumpitaz 9. Greaves 10. Finney 11. 12.
13. Aldo - 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Rivelino 4. Zanetti 5. Xavi 6. Schuster 7. Cabrini 8. Tigana 9. Schulz 10. John Charles 11. 12.
14. EAP/Pat/Skizzo - 1. Figueroa 2. Rijkaard 3. van Hanegem 4. Brehme 5. Cafu 6. Baggio 7. McGrath 8. Yashin 9. Kopa 10. Eto'o 11. 12.
15. Enigma_87/MJJ - 1. Johan Cruyff 2. Baresi 3. Figo 4. Henry 5. Amoros 6. Giggs 7. J. A. Camacho 8. Effenberg 9. Gerson 10. Ruggeri 11. 12.
16. Invictus/Theon - 1. Platini 2. Van Basten 3. Sammer 4. Redondo 5. Gento 6. Cannavaro. 7. Briegel 8. Stam 9. Meazza 10. Neuer 11. 12.


@Šjor Bepo @VivaJanuzaj
 
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1. Joga Bonito - 1. Maradona 2. Krol 3. Thuram 4. Breitner 5. Stoichkov 6. Monti 7. Tresor 8. Law 9. Gerets 10. 11. 12.
2. Sjor Bepo/Viva Januzaj - 1. Messi 2. Keane 3. Charlton 4. Djalma Santos 5. Schnellinger 6. Hansen 7. Makelele 8. Sivori 9. Schwarzenbeck 10. Elkjaer 11. 12.
3. harms - 1. Pelé 2. P. Falcão 3. Rummenigge 4. Ferdinand 5. Lahm 6. Netzer 7. Bossis 8. Vierchowod 9. Busquets 10. Rensenbrink 11. 12.
4. mazhar13 - 1. Beckenbauer 2. Nilton Santos 3. Desailly 4. Conti 5. Gullit 6. Rivera 7. Förster 8. Xabi Alonso 9. Del Piero 10. Kocsis 11. 12.
5. Tuppet - 1. Alfredo Di Stéfano 2. Gerd Muller 3. Passarella 4. Jairzinho 5. Boniek 6. Junior 7. Hierro 8. Coluna 9. V. Andrade 10. Nasazzi 11. 12.
6. Physiocrat - 1. Best 2. Neeskens 3. Luis Suarez Miramontes 4. Rivaldo 5. Vogts 6. Marzolini 7. Schweinsteiger 8. Thiago Silva 9. Ricardo Carvalho 10. Vieri 11. 12.
7. The Stain - 1. Luis Ronaldo 2. Džajić 3. Kohler 4. Nedved 5. Robson 6. Scholes 7. Obdulio Varela 8. Shesternyov 9. Dani Alves 10. Ricardo Zamora 11. 12.
8. Balu/crappy- 1. Eusébio 2. Scirea 3. Masopust 4. D. Edwards 5. Czibor 6. Lizarazu 7. Burgnich 8. Costacurta 9. Beckham 10. Gordon Banks 11. 12.
9. Stobzilla - 1. Maldini 2. Moore 3. Carlos Alberto 4. M. Laudrup 5. Kubala 6. Hamrin 7. Blokhin 8. Didi 9. Domingos Da Guia 10. Popescu 11. 12.
10. RedTiger/Marty1968 - 1. Puskas 2. Matthaus 3. Gentile 4. Matthews 5. R. Carlos 6. Neymar 7. Suurbier 8. Vieira 9. Sanchez 10. Ayala 11. 12.
11. diarm - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. Zidane 3. Ronaldinho 4. Batistuta 5. Santamaria 6. Bergomi 7. Koeman 8. Ocwirk 9. Voronin 10. De Vecchi 11. 12.
12. Gio - 1. Zico 2. Facchetti 3. Nesta 4. Bozsik 5. Iniesta 6. Souness 7. Andrade 8. Chumpitaz 9. Greaves 10. Finney 11. 12.
13. Aldo - 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Rivelino 4. Zanetti 5. Xavi 6. Schuster 7. Cabrini 8. Tigana 9. Schulz 10. John Charles 11. 12.
14. EAP/Pat/Skizzo - 1. Figueroa 2. Rijkaard 3. van Hanegem 4. Brehme 5. Cafu 6. Baggio 7. McGrath 8. Yashin 9. Kopa 10. Eto'o 11. 12.
15. Enigma_87/MJJ - 1. Johan Cruyff 2. Baresi 3. Figo 4. Henry 5. Amoros 6. Giggs 7. J. A. Camacho 8. Effenberg 9. Gerson 10. Ruggeri 11. 12.
16. Invictus/Theon - 1. Platini 2. Van Basten 3. Sammer 4. Redondo 5. Gento 6. Cannavaro. 7. Briegel 8. Stam 9. Meazza 10. Neuer 11. 12
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Not just that, I don't believe we can get a accurate profile at all.

Two examples come to mind immediately.
- Pirlo started off as a very good #10 before becoming a brilliant DLP.
- Sammer started off his career as a striker before becoming a sweeper.
But try playing them in any other position apart from DLP or CB and it'll get rubbished in the match thread or at least treated as 'not peak position' and rightly so.

Here we should at least be able to get a consensus that x is his best position, but he can do a decent job at y or z positions. That should at least be a bare minimum imo.
Click to expand...

The difference there is, simply, that we know all we need to know about Pirlo and Sammer. There's no need to interpret their skill sets in order to fit them into roles they didn't actually play. If you do the latter, it would be highly experimental – and you'd probably admit from the very beginning that you were doing something potentially crazy.

With the old school players, this is radically different: Their actual, nominal roles often don't exist in most (or any) modern set-ups, so you have to interpret, and look at their particular traits in order to determine what modern position would suit them best.

I don't think it's realistic to reach a consensus on some sort of “conversion” principle here. It comes down to individual players. If we simply decide that an old school fullback is a CB – and that's that, it would be wrong: The reality is more complex – we can't pretend otherwise just in order to make it easy on ourselves.

As @Balu says, it has to be up to the voters whether they buy what the manager has to say or not. That goes for any argument on behalf of any player, regardless of what era he played in.

That said, you have a point regarding match debates and the possibility of tedious arguing about whether Player X is in the wrong position or not. But this is possible to avoid if people are aware of the potential problem. Plus, people have a tendency to repeat the same arguments over and over regardless – it's not limited to this particular form of bickering.

Ultimately, it comes down to what we've discussed many times before: If old school players become too controversial, or if they split opinions too radically, we can't do all-time drafts with an unlimited pool. It's that simple. But I don't think we're there. Some will ignore them, others will rate them highly, some will be in the middle somewhere – to me, at least, it seems fairly balanced on here in that respect. We have regulars who love the old boys, and others who pretty much avoid any contact with them. But this hasn't so far been to the detriment of the drafts – if anything it adds a bit of spice to the thing.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Here we should at least be able to get a consensus that x is his best position, but he can do a decent job at y or z positions. That should at least be a bare minimum imo.
Click to expand...

That's fair enough.

From everything I've read, at his peak he was played primarily as the left most player of a 3 man defence. There aren't many team sheets showing exact formations from that time but having done some research on his teammates, it appears they were playing in something similar to the W-M formation which got popular during the 1920's. Now that formation doesn't really exist anymore so as Chester said, we'll have to look at what we know about him to decide where he would best fit today.

We know that he started out as a winger or wide attacker, that he is universally reported to have been excellent defensively, particularly against dribblers, and that he was exceptionally fast. We know that he captained his club and country for several years and was credited with marshaling both defences with great awareness and tactical understanding during that time. We also know that he wasn't the tallest of players, which imo would stand against him as a modern centre back in a four man defence.

In a modern formation, I believe his traits point to a fullback or wingback position depending on team tactics. That said... I may not set up with a modern formation.
 
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1. Joga Bonito - 1. Maradona 2. Krol 3. Thuram 4. Breitner 5. Stoichkov 6. Monti 7. Tresor 8. Law 9. Gerets 10. Tardelli 11. Dasayev 12.
2. Sjor Bepo/Viva Januzaj - 1. Messi 2. Keane 3. Charlton 4. Djalma Santos 5. Schnellinger 6. Hansen 7. Makelele 8. Sivori 9. Schwarzenbeck 10. Elkjaer 11. 12.
3. harms - 1. Pelé 2. P. Falcão 3. Rummenigge 4. Ferdinand 5. Lahm 6. Netzer 7. Bossis 8. Vierchowod 9. Busquets 10. Rensenbrink 11. 12.
4. mazhar13 - 1. Beckenbauer 2. Nilton Santos 3. Desailly 4. Conti 5. Gullit 6. Rivera 7. Förster 8. Xabi Alonso 9. Del Piero 10. Kocsis 11. 12.
5. Tuppet - 1. Alfredo Di Stéfano 2. Gerd Muller 3. Passarella 4. Jairzinho 5. Boniek 6. Junior 7. Hierro 8. Coluna 9. V. Andrade 10. Nasazzi 11. 12.
6. Physiocrat - 1. Best 2. Neeskens 3. Luis Suarez Miramontes 4. Rivaldo 5. Vogts 6. Marzolini 7. Schweinsteiger 8. Thiago Silva 9. Ricardo Carvalho 10. Vieri 11. 12.
7. The Stain - 1. Luis Ronaldo 2. Džajić 3. Kohler 4. Nedved 5. Robson 6. Scholes 7. Obdulio Varela 8. Shesternyov 9. Dani Alves 10. Ricardo Zamora 11. 12.
8. Balu/crappy - 1. Eusébio 2. Scirea 3. Masopust 4. D. Edwards 5. Czibor 6. Lizarazu 7. Burgnich 8. Costacurta 9. Beckham 10. Gordon Banks 11. 12.
9. Stobzilla - 1. Maldini 2. Moore 3. Carlos Alberto 4. M. Laudrup 5. Kubala 6. Hamrin 7. Blokhin 8. Didi 9. Domingos Da Guia 10. Popescu 11. 12.
10. RedTiger/Marty1968 - 1. Puskas 2. Matthaus 3. Gentile 4. Matthews 5. R. Carlos 6. Neymar 7. Suurbier 8. Vieira 9. Sanchez 10. Ayala 11. 12.
11. diarm - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. Zidane 3. Ronaldinho 4. Batistuta 5. Santamaria 6. Bergomi 7. Koeman 8. Ocwirk 9. Voronin 10. De Vecchi 11. 12.
12. Gio - 1. Zico 2. Facchetti 3. Nesta 4. Bozsik 5. Iniesta 6. Souness 7. Andrade 8. Chumpitaz 9. Greaves 10. Finney 11. 12.
13. Aldo - 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Rivelino 4. Zanetti 5. Xavi 6. Schuster 7. Cabrini 8. Tigana 9. Schulz 10. John Charles 11. 12.
14. EAP/Pat/Skizzo - 1. Figueroa 2. Rijkaard 3. van Hanegem 4. Brehme 5. Cafu 6. Baggio 7. McGrath 8. Yashin 9. Kopa 10. Eto'o 11. 12.
15. Enigma_87/MJJ - 1. Johan Cruyff 2. Baresi 3. Figo 4. Henry 5. Amoros 6. Giggs 7. J. A. Camacho 8. Effenberg 9. Gerson 10. Ruggeri 11. 12.
16. Invictus/Theon - 1. Platini 2. Van Basten 3. Sammer 4. Redondo 5. Gento 6. Cannavaro. 7. Briegel 8. Stam 9. Meazza 10. Neuer 11. 12

@viva januzaj @Šjor Bepo
 
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1. Joga Bonito - 1. Maradona 2. Krol 3. Thuram 4. Breitner 5. Stoichkov 6. Monti 7. Tresor 8. Law 9. Gerets 10. Tardelli 11. Dasayev 12.
2. Sjor Bepo/Viva Januzaj - 1. Messi 2. Keane 3. Charlton 4. Djalma Santos 5. Schnellinger 6. Hansen 7. Makelele 8. Sivori 9. Schwarzenbeck 10. Elkjaer 11. Southall 12.
3. harms - 1. Pelé 2. P. Falcão 3. Rummenigge 4. Ferdinand 5. Lahm 6. Netzer 7. Bossis 8. Vierchowod 9. Busquets 10. Rensenbrink 11. 12.
4. mazhar13 - 1. Beckenbauer 2. Nilton Santos 3. Desailly 4. Conti 5. Gullit 6. Rivera 7. Förster 8. Xabi Alonso 9. Del Piero 10. Kocsis 11. 12.
5. Tuppet - 1. Alfredo Di Stéfano 2. Gerd Muller 3. Passarella 4. Jairzinho 5. Boniek 6. Junior 7. Hierro 8. Coluna 9. V. Andrade 10. Nasazzi 11. 12.
6. Physiocrat - 1. Best 2. Neeskens 3. Luis Suarez Miramontes 4. Rivaldo 5. Vogts 6. Marzolini 7. Schweinsteiger 8. Thiago Silva 9. Ricardo Carvalho 10. Vieri 11. 12.
7. The Stain - 1. Luis Ronaldo 2. Džajić 3. Kohler 4. Nedved 5. Robson 6. Scholes 7. Obdulio Varela 8. Shesternyov 9. Dani Alves 10. Ricardo Zamora 11. 12.
8. Balu/crappy - 1. Eusébio 2. Scirea 3. Masopust 4. D. Edwards 5. Czibor 6. Lizarazu 7. Burgnich 8. Costacurta 9. Beckham 10. Gordon Banks 11. 12.
9. Stobzilla - 1. Maldini 2. Moore 3. Carlos Alberto 4. M. Laudrup 5. Kubala 6. Hamrin 7. Blokhin 8. Didi 9. Domingos Da Guia 10. Popescu 11. 12.
10. RedTiger/Marty1968 - 1. Puskas 2. Matthaus 3. Gentile 4. Matthews 5. R. Carlos 6. Neymar 7. Suurbier 8. Vieira 9. Sanchez 10. Ayala 11. 12.
11. diarm - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. Zidane 3. Ronaldinho 4. Batistuta 5. Santamaria 6. Bergomi 7. Koeman 8. Ocwirk 9. Voronin 10. De Vecchi 11. 12.
12. Gio - 1. Zico 2. Facchetti 3. Nesta 4. Bozsik 5. Iniesta 6. Souness 7. Andrade 8. Chumpitaz 9. Greaves 10. Finney 11. 12.
13. Aldo - 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Rivelino 4. Zanetti 5. Xavi 6. Schuster 7. Cabrini 8. Tigana 9. Schulz 10. John Charles 11. 12.
14. EAP/Pat/Skizzo - 1. Figueroa 2. Rijkaard 3. van Hanegem 4. Brehme 5. Cafu 6. Baggio 7. McGrath 8. Yashin 9. Kopa 10. Eto'o 11. 12.
15. Enigma_87/MJJ - 1. Johan Cruyff 2. Baresi 3. Figo 4. Henry 5. Amoros 6. Giggs 7. J. A. Camacho 8. Effenberg 9. Gerson 10. Ruggeri 11. 12.
16. Invictus/Theon - 1. Platini 2. Van Basten 3. Sammer 4. Redondo 5. Gento 6. Cannavaro. 7. Briegel 8. Stam 9. Meazza 10. Neuer 11. 12

@harms
 
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1. Joga Bonito - 1. Maradona 2. Krol 3. Thuram 4. Breitner 5. Stoichkov 6. Monti 7. Tresor 8. Law 9. Gerets 10. Tardelli 11. Dasayev 12.
2. Sjor Bepo/Viva Januzaj - 1. Messi 2. Keane 3. Charlton 4. Djalma Santos 5. Schnellinger 6. Hansen 7. Makelele 8. Sivori 9. Schwarzenbeck 10. Elkjaer 11. Southall 12.
3. harms - 1. Pelé 2. P. Falcão 3. Rummenigge 4. Ferdinand 5. Lahm 6. Netzer 7. Bossis 8. Vierchowod 9. Busquets 10. Rensenbrink 11. Hellström 12.
4. mazhar13 - 1. Beckenbauer 2. Nilton Santos 3. Desailly 4. Conti 5. Gullit 6. Rivera 7. Förster 8. Xabi Alonso 9. Del Piero 10. Kocsis 11. 12.
5. Tuppet - 1. Alfredo Di Stéfano 2. Gerd Muller 3. Passarella 4. Jairzinho 5. Boniek 6. Junior 7. Hierro 8. Coluna 9. V. Andrade 10. Nasazzi 11. 12.
6. Physiocrat - 1. Best 2. Neeskens 3. Luis Suarez Miramontes 4. Rivaldo 5. Vogts 6. Marzolini 7. Schweinsteiger 8. Thiago Silva 9. Ricardo Carvalho 10. Vieri 11. 12.
7. The Stain - 1. Luis Ronaldo 2. Džajić 3. Kohler 4. Nedved 5. Robson 6. Scholes 7. Obdulio Varela 8. Shesternyov 9. Dani Alves 10. Ricardo Zamora 11. 12.
8. Balu/crappy - 1. Eusébio 2. Scirea 3. Masopust 4. D. Edwards 5. Czibor 6. Lizarazu 7. Burgnich 8. Costacurta 9. Beckham 10. Gordon Banks 11. 12.
9. Stobzilla - 1. Maldini 2. Moore 3. Carlos Alberto 4. M. Laudrup 5. Kubala 6. Hamrin 7. Blokhin 8. Didi 9. Domingos Da Guia 10. Popescu 11. 12.
10. RedTiger/Marty1968 - 1. Puskas 2. Matthaus 3. Gentile 4. Matthews 5. R. Carlos 6. Neymar 7. Suurbier 8. Vieira 9. Sanchez 10. Ayala 11. 12.
11. diarm - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. Zidane 3. Ronaldinho 4. Batistuta 5. Santamaria 6. Bergomi 7. Koeman 8. Ocwirk 9. Voronin 10. De Vecchi 11. 12.
12. Gio - 1. Zico 2. Facchetti 3. Nesta 4. Bozsik 5. Iniesta 6. Souness 7. Andrade 8. Chumpitaz 9. Greaves 10. Finney 11. 12.
13. Aldo - 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Rivelino 4. Zanetti 5. Xavi 6. Schuster 7. Cabrini 8. Tigana 9. Schulz 10. John Charles 11. 12.
14. EAP/Pat/Skizzo - 1. Figueroa 2. Rijkaard 3. van Hanegem 4. Brehme 5. Cafu 6. Baggio 7. McGrath 8. Yashin 9. Kopa 10. Eto'o 11. 12.
15. Enigma_87/MJJ - 1. Johan Cruyff 2. Baresi 3. Figo 4. Henry 5. Amoros 6. Giggs 7. J. A. Camacho 8. Effenberg 9. Gerson 10. Ruggeri 11. 12.
16. Invictus/Theon - 1. Platini 2. Van Basten 3. Sammer 4. Redondo 5. Gento 6. Cannavaro. 7. Briegel 8. Stam 9. Meazza 10. Neuer 11. 12
 
1. Joga Bonito - 1. Maradona 2. Krol 3. Thuram 4. Breitner 5. Stoichkov 6. Monti 7. Tresor 8. Law 9. Gerets 10. Tardelli 11. Dasayev 12.
2. Sjor Bepo/Viva Januzaj - 1. Messi 2. Keane 3. Charlton 4. Djalma Santos 5. Schnellinger 6. Hansen 7. Makelele 8. Sivori 9. Schwarzenbeck 10. Elkjaer 11. Southall 12.
3. harms - 1. Pelé 2. P. Falcão 3. Rummenigge 4. Ferdinand 5. Lahm 6. Netzer 7. Bossis 8. Vierchowod 9. Busquets 10. Rensenbrink 11. Hellström 12.
4. mazhar13 - 1. Beckenbauer 2. Nilton Santos 3. Desailly 4. Conti 5. Gullit 6. Rivera 7. Förster 8. Xabi Alonso 9. Del Piero 10. Kocsis 11. Schmeichel 12.
5. Tuppet - 1. Alfredo Di Stéfano 2. Gerd Muller 3. Passarella 4. Jairzinho 5. Boniek 6. Junior 7. Hierro 8. Coluna 9. V. Andrade 10. Nasazzi 11. 12.
6. Physiocrat - 1. Best 2. Neeskens 3. Luis Suarez Miramontes 4. Rivaldo 5. Vogts 6. Marzolini 7. Schweinsteiger 8. Thiago Silva 9. Ricardo Carvalho 10. Vieri 11. 12.
7. The Stain - 1. Luis Ronaldo 2. Džajić 3. Kohler 4. Nedved 5. Robson 6. Scholes 7. Obdulio Varela 8. Shesternyov 9. Dani Alves 10. Ricardo Zamora 11. 12.
8. Balu/crappy - 1. Eusébio 2. Scirea 3. Masopust 4. D. Edwards 5. Czibor 6. Lizarazu 7. Burgnich 8. Costacurta 9. Beckham 10. Gordon Banks 11. 12.
9. Stobzilla - 1. Maldini 2. Moore 3. Carlos Alberto 4. M. Laudrup 5. Kubala 6. Hamrin 7. Blokhin 8. Didi 9. Domingos Da Guia 10. Popescu 11. 12.
10. RedTiger/Marty1968 - 1. Puskas 2. Matthaus 3. Gentile 4. Matthews 5. R. Carlos 6. Neymar 7. Suurbier 8. Vieira 9. Sanchez 10. Ayala 11. 12.
11. diarm - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. Zidane 3. Ronaldinho 4. Batistuta 5. Santamaria 6. Bergomi 7. Koeman 8. Ocwirk 9. Voronin 10. De Vecchi 11. 12.
12. Gio - 1. Zico 2. Facchetti 3. Nesta 4. Bozsik 5. Iniesta 6. Souness 7. Andrade 8. Chumpitaz 9. Greaves 10. Finney 11. 12.
13. Aldo - 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Rivelino 4. Zanetti 5. Xavi 6. Schuster 7. Cabrini 8. Tigana 9. Schulz 10. John Charles 11. 12.
14. EAP/Pat/Skizzo - 1. Figueroa 2. Rijkaard 3. van Hanegem 4. Brehme 5. Cafu 6. Baggio 7. McGrath 8. Yashin 9. Kopa 10. Eto'o 11. 12.
15. Enigma_87/MJJ - 1. Johan Cruyff 2. Baresi 3. Figo 4. Henry 5. Amoros 6. Giggs 7. J. A. Camacho 8. Effenberg 9. Gerson 10. Ruggeri 11. 12.
16. Invictus/Theon - 1. Platini 2. Van Basten 3. Sammer 4. Redondo 5. Gento 6. Cannavaro. 7. Briegel 8. Stam 9. Meazza 10. Neuer 11. 12
 
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1. Joga Bonito - 1. Maradona 2. Krol 3. Thuram 4. Breitner 5. Stoichkov 6. Monti 7. Tresor 8. Law 9. Gerets 10. Tardelli 11. Dasayev 12.
2. Sjor Bepo/Viva Januzaj - 1. Messi 2. Keane 3. Charlton 4. Djalma Santos 5. Schnellinger 6. Hansen 7. Makelele 8. Sivori 9. Schwarzenbeck 10. Elkjaer 11. Southall 12.
3. harms - 1. Pelé 2. P. Falcão 3. Rummenigge 4. Ferdinand 5. Lahm 6. Netzer 7. Bossis 8. Vierchowod 9. Busquets 10. Rensenbrink 11. Hellström 12.
4. mazhar13 - 1. Beckenbauer 2. Nilton Santos 3. Desailly 4. Conti 5. Gullit 6. Rivera 7. Förster 8. Xabi Alonso 9. Del Piero 10. Kocsis 11. Schmeichel 12.
5. Tuppet - 1. Alfredo Di Stéfano 2. Gerd Muller 3. Passarella 4. Jairzinho 5. Boniek 6. Junior 7. Hierro 8. Coluna 9. V. Andrade 10. Nasazzi 11. Davids 12.
6. Physiocrat - 1. Best 2. Neeskens 3. Luis Suarez Miramontes 4. Rivaldo 5. Vogts 6. Marzolini 7. Schweinsteiger 8. Thiago Silva 9. Ricardo Carvalho 10. Vieri 11. 12.
7. The Stain - 1. Luis Ronaldo 2. Džajić 3. Kohler 4. Nedved 5. Robson 6. Scholes 7. Obdulio Varela 8. Shesternyov 9. Dani Alves 10. Ricardo Zamora 11. 12.
8. Balu/crappy - 1. Eusébio 2. Scirea 3. Masopust 4. D. Edwards 5. Czibor 6. Lizarazu 7. Burgnich 8. Costacurta 9. Beckham 10. Gordon Banks 11. 12.
9. Stobzilla - 1. Maldini 2. Moore 3. Carlos Alberto 4. M. Laudrup 5. Kubala 6. Hamrin 7. Blokhin 8. Didi 9. Domingos Da Guia 10. Popescu 11. 12.
10. RedTiger/Marty1968 - 1. Puskas 2. Matthaus 3. Gentile 4. Matthews 5. R. Carlos 6. Neymar 7. Suurbier 8. Vieira 9. Sanchez 10. Ayala 11. 12.
11. diarm - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. Zidane 3. Ronaldinho 4. Batistuta 5. Santamaria 6. Bergomi 7. Koeman 8. Ocwirk 9. Voronin 10. De Vecchi 11. 12.
12. Gio - 1. Zico 2. Facchetti 3. Nesta 4. Bozsik 5. Iniesta 6. Souness 7. Andrade 8. Chumpitaz 9. Greaves 10. Finney 11. 12.
13. Aldo - 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Rivelino 4. Zanetti 5. Xavi 6. Schuster 7. Cabrini 8. Tigana 9. Schulz 10. John Charles 11. 12.
14. EAP/Pat/Skizzo - 1. Figueroa 2. Rijkaard 3. van Hanegem 4. Brehme 5. Cafu 6. Baggio 7. McGrath 8. Yashin 9. Kopa 10. Eto'o 11. 12.
15. Enigma_87/MJJ - 1. Johan Cruyff 2. Baresi 3. Figo 4. Henry 5. Amoros 6. Giggs 7. J. A. Camacho 8. Effenberg 9. Gerson 10. Ruggeri 11. 12.
16. Invictus/Theon - 1. Platini 2. Van Basten 3. Sammer 4. Redondo 5. Gento 6. Cannavaro. 7. Briegel 8. Stam 9. Meazza 10. Neuer 11. 12
 
Some really nice late picks coming in but i love the John Charles pick from Aldo, a 10th round steal. World class centre half and centre forward, voted Serie As greatest ever foreign player (ahead of Maradona, Van Basten, Zidane etc) and don't think he'd block too many.
 
Cutch said:
Some really nice late picks coming in but i love the John Charles pick from Aldo, a 10th round steal. World class centre half and centre forward, voted Serie As greatest ever foreign player (ahead of Maradona, Van Basten, Zidane etc) and don't think he'd block too many.
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Thanks Cutch. Yeah he's a handy one to have in this draft.
 
Cutch said:
Some really nice late picks coming in but i love the John Charles pick from Aldo, a 10th round steal. World class centre half and centre forward, voted Serie As greatest ever foreign player (ahead of Maradona, Van Basten, Zidane etc) and don't think he'd block too many.
Click to expand...
Wasn't that the Juve fans voting him their best ever foreign player for their 100 year celebration? I could be wrong, but that's what I remember. Still mighty impressive of course, ahead of for example Platini. He's truely loved by the Juventus fans.
 
Any excuse to post this. :drool:

Il Gigante Buono: From Jack to Juve
​

“Like Ulysses, he is mythological”
Benito Boldi – team mate of John Charles at Juventus

“Incomparable…John wasn’t only one of the greatest footballers who ever lived. He was one of the greatest men ever to play the game.”
Sir Bobby Robson.

“Do you know, whenever I look at John it feels as though the Messiah has returned.”
Jimmy Murphy, Wales manager (1956-64)



Read more at:
https://lostboyos.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/john-charles/
 
I thought about big John (having had him before). But decided that there was a better centre-back and a couple of strikers who fitted the rest of the team better.

He's a great fit for this draft though. Rock-solid reputation, blocks next to nobody and can be moved to another position subject to reinforcement opportunities.
 
Aldo said:
Defense is where I'll be using him this time, let's see how it goes.
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Almost picked him myself, prob should have. I was looking at a @green_smiley match in the all-time auction draft and people were suggesting re-inforcements after he had won. Don't think JC was mentioned as someone that needed replacing. Let me check..
 
1389817805_extras_noticia_foton_7_0.jpg


1.Joga Bonito - 1. Maradona 2. Krol 3. Thuram 4. Breitner 5. Stoichkov 6. Monti 7. Tresor 8. Law 9. Gerets 10. Tardelli 11. Dasayev 12.
2. Sjor Bepo/Viva Januzaj - 1. Messi 2. Keane 3. Charlton 4. Djalma Santos 5. Schnellinger 6. Hansen 7. Makelele 8. Sivori 9. Schwarzenbeck 10. Elkjaer 11. Southall 12.
3. harms - 1. Pelé 2. P. Falcão 3. Rummenigge 4. Ferdinand 5. Lahm 6. Netzer 7. Bossis 8. Vierchowod 9. Busquets 10. Rensenbrink 11. Hellström 12.
4. mazhar13 - 1. Beckenbauer 2. Nilton Santos 3. Desailly 4. Conti 5. Gullit 6. Rivera 7. Förster 8. Xabi Alonso 9. Del Piero 10. Kocsis 11. Schmeichel 12.
5. Tuppet - 1. Alfredo Di Stéfano 2. Gerd Muller 3. Passarella 4. Jairzinho 5. Boniek 6. Junior 7. Hierro 8. Coluna 9. V. Andrade 10. Nasazzi 11. Davids 12.
6. Physiocrat - 1. Best 2. Neeskens 3. Luis Suarez Miramontes 4. Rivaldo 5. Vogts 6. Marzolini 7. Schweinsteiger 8. Thiago Silva 9. Ricardo Carvalho 10. Vieri 11. Chilavert 12.
7. The Stain - 1. Luis Ronaldo 2. Džajić 3. Kohler 4. Nedved 5. Robson 6. Scholes 7. Obdulio Varela 8. Shesternyov 9. Dani Alves 10. Ricardo Zamora 11. 12.
8. Balu/crappy - 1. Eusébio 2. Scirea 3. Masopust 4. D. Edwards 5. Czibor 6. Lizarazu 7. Burgnich 8. Costacurta 9. Beckham 10. Gordon Banks 11. 12.
9. Stobzilla - 1. Maldini 2. Moore 3. Carlos Alberto 4. M. Laudrup 5. Kubala 6. Hamrin 7. Blokhin 8. Didi 9. Domingos Da Guia 10. Popescu 11. 12.
10. RedTiger/Marty1968 - 1. Puskas 2. Matthaus 3. Gentile 4. Matthews 5. R. Carlos 6. Neymar 7. Suurbier 8. Vieira 9. Sanchez 10. Ayala 11. 12.
11. diarm - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. Zidane 3. Ronaldinho 4. Batistuta 5. Santamaria 6. Bergomi 7. Koeman 8. Ocwirk 9. Voronin 10. De Vecchi 11. 12.
12. Gio - 1. Zico 2. Facchetti 3. Nesta 4. Bozsik 5. Iniesta 6. Souness 7. Andrade 8. Chumpitaz 9. Greaves 10. Finney 11. 12.
13. Aldo - 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Rivelino 4. Zanetti 5. Xavi 6. Schuster 7. Cabrini 8. Tigana 9. Schulz 10. John Charles 11. 12.
14. EAP/Pat/Skizzo - 1. Figueroa 2. Rijkaard 3. van Hanegem 4. Brehme 5. Cafu 6. Baggio 7. McGrath 8. Yashin 9. Kopa 10. Eto'o 11. 12.
15. Enigma_87/MJJ - 1. Johan Cruyff 2. Baresi 3. Figo 4. Henry 5. Amoros 6. Giggs 7. J. A. Camacho 8. Effenberg 9. Gerson 10. Ruggeri 11. 12.
16. Invictus/Theon - 1. Platini 2. Van Basten 3.Sammer 4. Redondo 5. Gento 6. Cannavaro. 7. Briegel 8. Stam 9. Meazza 10. Neuer 11. 12

@The Stain
 
92.336.611.jpeg


1.Joga Bonito - 1. Maradona 2. Krol 3. Thuram 4. Breitner 5. Stoichkov 6. Monti 7. Tresor 8. Law 9. Gerets 10. Tardelli 11. Dasayev 12.
2. Sjor Bepo/Viva Januzaj - 1. Messi 2. Keane 3. Charlton 4. Djalma Santos 5. Schnellinger 6. Hansen 7. Makelele 8. Sivori 9. Schwarzenbeck 10. Elkjaer 11. Southall 12.
3. harms - 1. Pelé 2. P. Falcão 3. Rummenigge 4. Ferdinand 5. Lahm 6. Netzer 7. Bossis 8. Vierchowod 9. Busquets 10. Rensenbrink 11. Hellström 12.
4. mazhar13 - 1. Beckenbauer 2. Nilton Santos 3. Desailly 4. Conti 5. Gullit 6. Rivera 7. Förster 8. Xabi Alonso 9. Del Piero 10. Kocsis 11. Schmeichel 12.
5. Tuppet - 1. Alfredo Di Stéfano 2. Gerd Muller 3. Passarella 4. Jairzinho 5. Boniek 6. Junior 7. Hierro 8. Coluna 9. V. Andrade 10. Nasazzi 11. Davids 12.
6. Physiocrat - 1. Best 2. Neeskens 3. Luis Suarez Miramontes 4. Rivaldo 5. Vogts 6. Marzolini 7. Schweinsteiger 8. Thiago Silva 9. Ricardo Carvalho 10. Vieri 11. Chilavert 12.
7. The Stain - 1. Luis Ronaldo 2. Džajić 3. Kohler 4. Nedved 5. Robson 6. Scholes 7. Obdulio Varela 8. Shesternyov 9. Dani Alves 10. Ricardo Zamora 11. Alaba 12.
8. Balu/crappy - 1. Eusébio 2. Scirea 3. Masopust 4. D. Edwards 5. Czibor 6. Lizarazu 7. Burgnich 8. Costacurta 9. Beckham 10. Gordon Banks 11. 12.
9. Stobzilla - 1. Maldini 2. Moore 3. Carlos Alberto 4. M. Laudrup 5. Kubala 6. Hamrin 7. Blokhin 8. Didi 9. Domingos Da Guia 10. Popescu 11. 12.
10. RedTiger/Marty1968 - 1. Puskas 2. Matthaus 3. Gentile 4. Matthews 5. R. Carlos 6. Neymar 7. Suurbier 8. Vieira 9. Sanchez 10. Ayala 11. 12.
11. diarm - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. Zidane 3. Ronaldinho 4. Batistuta 5. Santamaria 6. Bergomi 7. Koeman 8. Ocwirk 9. Voronin 10. De Vecchi 11. 12.
12. Gio - 1. Zico 2. Facchetti 3. Nesta 4. Bozsik 5. Iniesta 6. Souness 7. Andrade 8. Chumpitaz 9. Greaves 10. Finney 11. 12.
13. Aldo - 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Rivelino 4. Zanetti 5. Xavi 6. Schuster 7. Cabrini 8. Tigana 9. Schulz 10. John Charles 11. 12.
14. EAP/Pat/Skizzo - 1. Figueroa 2. Rijkaard 3. van Hanegem 4. Brehme 5. Cafu 6. Baggio 7. McGrath 8. Yashin 9. Kopa 10. Eto'o 11. 12.
15. Enigma_87/MJJ - 1. Johan Cruyff 2. Baresi 3. Figo 4. Henry 5. Amoros 6. Giggs 7. J. A. Camacho 8. Effenberg 9. Gerson 10. Ruggeri 11. 12.
16. Invictus/Theon - 1. Platini 2. Van Basten 3.Sammer 4. Redondo 5. Gento 6. Cannavaro. 7. Briegel 8. Stam 9. Meazza 10. Neuer 11. 12

@Balu @crappycraperson
 
ooooo 'ello.

Maybe too early for him ? I don't doubt that when we are still sat here in 20 years doing these that his name will be up there.
 
1966-Uwe-Seeler.jpg


He really deserved to be a World Cup winner. There are few players I feel sorry for, because they missed out on a trophy. He tops the list, but I'm really happy to finally have him in one of my teams.
 
1.Joga Bonito - 1. Maradona 2. Krol 3. Thuram 4. Breitner 5. Stoichkov 6. Monti 7. Tresor 8. Law 9. Gerets 10. Tardelli 11. Dasayev 12.
2. Sjor Bepo/Viva Januzaj - 1. Messi 2. Keane 3. Charlton 4. Djalma Santos 5. Schnellinger 6. Hansen 7. Makelele 8. Sivori 9. Schwarzenbeck 10. Elkjaer 11. Southall 12.
3. harms - 1. Pelé 2. P. Falcão 3. Rummenigge 4. Ferdinand 5. Lahm 6. Netzer 7. Bossis 8. Vierchowod 9. Busquets 10. Rensenbrink 11. Hellström 12.
4. mazhar13 - 1. Beckenbauer 2. Nilton Santos 3. Desailly 4. Conti 5. Gullit 6. Rivera 7. Förster 8. Xabi Alonso 9. Del Piero 10. Kocsis 11. Schmeichel 12.
5. Tuppet - 1. Alfredo Di Stéfano 2. Gerd Muller 3. Passarella 4. Jairzinho 5. Boniek 6. Junior 7. Hierro 8. Coluna 9. V. Andrade 10. Nasazzi 11. Davids 12.
6. Physiocrat - 1. Best 2. Neeskens 3. Luis Suarez Miramontes 4. Rivaldo 5. Vogts 6. Marzolini 7. Schweinsteiger 8. Thiago Silva 9. Ricardo Carvalho 10. Vieri 11. Chilavert 12.
7. The Stain - 1. Luis Ronaldo 2. Džajić 3. Kohler 4. Nedved 5. Robson 6. Scholes 7. Obdulio Varela 8. Shesternyov 9. Dani Alves 10. Ricardo Zamora 11. Alaba 12.
8. Balu/crappy - 1. Eusébio 2. Scirea 3. Masopust 4. D. Edwards 5. Czibor 6. Lizarazu 7. Burgnich 8. Costacurta 9. Beckham 10. Gordon Banks 11. Seeler 12.
9. Stobzilla - 1. Maldini 2. Moore 3. Carlos Alberto 4. M. Laudrup 5. Kubala 6. Hamrin 7. Blokhin 8. Didi 9. Domingos Da Guia 10. Popescu 11. 12.
10. RedTiger/Marty1968 - 1. Puskas 2. Matthaus 3. Gentile 4. Matthews 5. R. Carlos 6. Neymar 7. Suurbier 8. Vieira 9. Sanchez 10. Ayala 11. 12.
11. diarm - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. Zidane 3. Ronaldinho 4. Batistuta 5. Santamaria 6. Bergomi 7. Koeman 8. Ocwirk 9. Voronin 10. De Vecchi 11. 12.
12. Gio - 1. Zico 2. Facchetti 3. Nesta 4. Bozsik 5. Iniesta 6. Souness 7. Andrade 8. Chumpitaz 9. Greaves 10. Finney 11. 12.
13. Aldo - 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Rivelino 4. Zanetti 5. Xavi 6. Schuster 7. Cabrini 8. Tigana 9. Schulz 10. John Charles 11. 12.
14. EAP/Pat/Skizzo - 1. Figueroa 2. Rijkaard 3. van Hanegem 4. Brehme 5. Cafu 6. Baggio 7. McGrath 8. Yashin 9. Kopa 10. Eto'o 11. 12.
15. Enigma_87/MJJ - 1. Johan Cruyff 2. Baresi 3. Figo 4. Henry 5. Amoros 6. Giggs 7. J. A. Camacho 8. Effenberg 9. Gerson 10. Ruggeri 11. 12.
16. Invictus/Theon - 1. Platini 2. Van Basten 3.Sammer 4. Redondo 5. Gento 6. Cannavaro. 7. Briegel 8. Stam 9. Meazza 10. Neuer 11. 12

@Stobzilla
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Didn't someone play John as CB recently? Kinda remember he did not get a good response as his best position was deemed to be CF. Could be wrong though.
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Stobz used him in EAP's snake draft partnering him with Blanc, and no one thought that that was strong enough to deal with a front 3 of Donadoni, Eto'o, and del Piero.

I used him as a central defender alongside Quirarte, and that wasn't received well either.

It really irritates me when people think that Charles is just an above-average central defender when he really was world class there. They see his scoring record and assume that he's just a striker who can do a job at the back. I really, really hope that @Aldo can do him some justice and make the Caf appreciate him more as a central defender.
 
Stobzilla said:
ooooo 'ello.

Maybe too early for him ? I don't doubt that when we are still sat here in 20 years doing these that his name will be up there.
Click to expand...
He's been in the UEFA team 3 years running if that counts for anything. Arguably the best LB in the world right now. But yeah, would have to be replaced at some point.
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Youngest players to get picked in a All Time draft? :lol:
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Possibly. 5 months younger than Neymar. I'll gladly take that trophy :wenger:
thumbs-up.png
 
Edwin-van-der-Sar-manches-007.jpg


There was only one man who could ensure the passing quality in my side 1 - 11. I pick that geezer in the hot pink polo shirt...

I jest, it's Edwin


1.Joga Bonito - 1. Maradona 2. Krol 3. Thuram 4. Breitner 5. Stoichkov 6. Monti 7. Tresor 8. Law 9. Gerets 10. Tardelli 11. Dasayev 12.
2. Sjor Bepo/Viva Januzaj - 1. Messi 2. Keane 3. Charlton 4. Djalma Santos 5. Schnellinger 6. Hansen 7. Makelele 8. Sivori 9. Schwarzenbeck 10. Elkjaer 11. Southall 12.
3. harms - 1. Pelé 2. P. Falcão 3. Rummenigge 4. Ferdinand 5. Lahm 6. Netzer 7. Bossis 8. Vierchowod 9. Busquets 10. Rensenbrink 11. Hellström 12.
4. mazhar13 - 1. Beckenbauer 2. Nilton Santos 3. Desailly 4. Conti 5. Gullit 6. Rivera 7. Förster 8. Xabi Alonso 9. Del Piero 10. Kocsis 11. Schmeichel 12.
5. Tuppet - 1. Alfredo Di Stéfano 2. Gerd Muller 3. Passarella 4. Jairzinho 5. Boniek 6. Junior 7. Hierro 8. Coluna 9. V. Andrade 10. Nasazzi 11. Davids 12.
6. Physiocrat - 1. Best 2. Neeskens 3. Luis Suarez Miramontes 4. Rivaldo 5. Vogts 6. Marzolini 7. Schweinsteiger 8. Thiago Silva 9. Ricardo Carvalho 10. Vieri 11. Chilavert 12.
7. The Stain - 1. Luis Ronaldo 2. Džajić 3. Kohler 4. Nedved 5. Robson 6. Scholes 7. Obdulio Varela 8. Shesternyov 9. Dani Alves 10. Ricardo Zamora 11. Alaba 12.
8. Balu/crappy - 1. Eusébio 2. Scirea 3. Masopust 4. D. Edwards 5. Czibor 6. Lizarazu 7. Burgnich 8. Costacurta 9. Beckham 10. Gordon Banks 11. Seeler 12.
9. Stobzilla - 1. Maldini 2. Moore 3. Carlos Alberto 4. M. Laudrup 5. Kubala 6. Hamrin 7. Blokhin 8. Didi 9. Domingos Da Guia 10. Popescu 11. van der Sar 12.
10. RedTiger/Marty1968 - 1. Puskas 2. Matthaus 3. Gentile 4. Matthews 5. R. Carlos 6. Neymar 7. Suurbier 8. Vieira 9. Sanchez 10. Ayala 11. 12.
11. diarm - 1. C. Ronaldo 2. Zidane 3. Ronaldinho 4. Batistuta 5. Santamaria 6. Bergomi 7. Koeman 8. Ocwirk 9. Voronin 10. De Vecchi 11. 12.
12. Gio - 1. Zico 2. Facchetti 3. Nesta 4. Bozsik 5. Iniesta 6. Souness 7. Andrade 8. Chumpitaz 9. Greaves 10. Finney 11. 12.
13. Aldo - 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Rivelino 4. Zanetti 5. Xavi 6. Schuster 7. Cabrini 8. Tigana 9. Schulz 10. John Charles 11. 12.
14. EAP/Pat/Skizzo - 1. Figueroa 2. Rijkaard 3. van Hanegem 4. Brehme 5. Cafu 6. Baggio 7. McGrath 8. Yashin 9. Kopa 10. Eto'o 11. 12.
15. Enigma_87/MJJ - 1. Johan Cruyff 2. Baresi 3. Figo 4. Henry 5. Amoros 6. Giggs 7. J. A. Camacho 8. Effenberg 9. Gerson 10. Ruggeri 11. 12.
16. Invictus/Theon - 1. Platini 2. Van Basten 3.Sammer 4. Redondo 5. Gento 6. Cannavaro. 7. Briegel 8. Stam 9. Meazza 10. Neuer 11. 12
 
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