When Mike was in Breaking Bad he was a former crooked cop with a sense of loyalty to his men who did what he did to provide for his granddaughter. In Better Call Saul he started out as a former crooked cop with a sense of loyalty to his men who did what he did to provide for his granddaughter. When it ended he was…….well you get the point. What you’ve outlined there are things that happened to him.Really? He'd only killed someone as revenge before that moment with Werner, that was his true breaking bad moment and it tore him apart.
He then quit working for Gus, went on an alcoholic binge, fell out with his granddaughter and stepdaughter then wound up being stabbed and almost dying.
Television Better Call Saul | Includes Breaking Bad Spoilers
- Thread starter Kinky Melinky
- Start date
I also don’t fully understand why Lalo was so fixated on this underground building. Did he know it was a meth lab? Why did it matter? The cartel already knew he had his own meth supply. They knew that from the flashback in Breaking Bad that happened before Better Call Saul.
No. It's what the Germans were doing, but the show didn't literally show you men digging a hole for multiple scenes.
Watching him wander was really boring, as boring as WW chasing fly for a full episode. If it's not filler, it's weak story telling.
Don't get me wrong I liked BB, but it was a very slow show as well with less interconnected stuff.
True, there's multiple inconsistencies with BB.
I get your point but it’s storytelling ultimately and adding depth to the universe they have created. If the show was 100% Saul/Jimmy in every scene, it would get tired very quick. You needed subplots to break that up.
None of that amounts to anything meaningful. Mike and Gus before Lalo are pretty much the same people as Mike and Gus after Lalo.
This may be a matter of perspective. To me and others, killing someone and committing multiple crimes as a corrupt cop is already being bad.
Mike also doesn't "break bad." It's not like he continues killing innocent people after Werner.
Breaking Bad has a much better story because the writers are more committed to their premise. It's a simple "turn a good guy into a bad guy" premise. Every season they put Walt in a scenario where his life (and/or Jesse's) is in serious danger, and he finds a way out by committing a morally terrible act. He internalizes this terrible thing, it turns him into a worse person, and then the next time he's faced with the same choice, he can make that choice more easily. It's a simple structure, they never waver from it, it allows them to develop Walt naturally so that he goes from a sadsack in S1 to Satan in S5.
Better Call Saul just doesn't have that commitment. They waver. Jimmy will scam an old lady and walk it back the next episode. He'll con Chuck, then confess to him. He'll say he'll never let "doing the right thing" stop him again, and continues to let the right thing stop him. The clear moral choices from Breaking Bad are replaced with contrivances and coincidence.
Better Call Saul just doesn't have that commitment. They waver. Jimmy will scam an old lady and walk it back the next episode. He'll con Chuck, then confess to him. He'll say he'll never let "doing the right thing" stop him again, and continues to let the right thing stop him. The clear moral choices from Breaking Bad are replaced with contrivances and coincidence.
What you are saying is Jimmy is a more complex character than Walt. I agree.
We should have a Messi vs Ronaldo BB vs BCS thread. I have an urge to lose IQ points and circular reasoning is preferable to alcoholism.
I really liked BCS (and at some points Loved it) but IMO it's not half as good as BB.
That's not a big deal though because pretty much nothing else is either.
I like BCS for what it is.
A slow ,indulgent , extended deep dive into the motivations of a minor character (which ties other characters from the "Universe" into the story) from BB and I'm glad they made it.
If Better Call Saul was released first there is no chance we would ever have seen Breaking Bad because it would have got canceled ages ago because it just isn't good enough by itself.
That's not a big deal though because pretty much nothing else is either.
I like BCS for what it is.
A slow ,indulgent , extended deep dive into the motivations of a minor character (which ties other characters from the "Universe" into the story) from BB and I'm glad they made it.
If Better Call Saul was released first there is no chance we would ever have seen Breaking Bad because it would have got canceled ages ago because it just isn't good enough by itself.
From what I can remember, BCS had episodes in the middle of season 2 or season 3 where they showed Jimmy doing random cons and tricks on the street from years ago, even though we already learned Jimmy's history jn first few episodes. Or around 5 episodes showing us how Chuck has problems with electricity, showing him doing all kind of protections in his place, even though we've seen that long time ago. Or literally 3 full episodes of Lalo and Gus playing mouse and cat, with literally nothing happening. In those 3 episodes Lalo flys to Germany, kills random guy, and Gus watches cameras from his house. I mean, that's literally 15 minutes worth of plot.
Saying BB had filler episodes while bigging up BCS is ridiculous. If BB didn't have "fly" episode I am sure no one would even remember one filler episode.
Saying BB had filler episodes while bigging up BCS is ridiculous. If BB didn't have "fly" episode I am sure no one would even remember one filler episode.
I'm doing a rewatch of BB at the moment and I'm actually surprised (first rewatch in 3/4 years) at how much happens per season (especially the first season) considering how people reference how slow it is.
Yeah, I could never counter people on that before rewatching it last year. They literally start cooking meth after few episodes.
I can only assume it was a lot of peoples first introduction to serials after years of watching procedural cop shows where they catch a serial killer every week. Walt murders two people in the first few episodes.
The Sopranos was kind of a big deal.
I don’t think it reached the masses the way Breaking Bad did.
Sopranos had more viewers for the final episode than Breaking Bad (and more viewers overall). They were both iconic shows.
It did.
Perhaps live. Breaking Bad is on Netflix all over the world though. I highly doubt more people have seen The Sopranos than Breaking Bad.
I don’t think it did.
Not even close, but it didn't exist as Netflix boomed so it's a mute comparison. Breaking Bad's explosion in that final season was legit unparrareled, I think. Gradual growth and then just went insanity.... it's like some random striker going 10-15-20-30 goals.... then smashing in 80 out of nowhere.
Just don’t think so. Sopranos was just a bigger cultural icon / event than BB as they aired live. Having lived as an adult through both, it’s not particularly close for me.
Then shouldn't the final episode ratings have been higher than the Sopranos? By the time they wrapped, both were massive in popular culture.
Agreed. I watched both and, at least in the USA, I recall more buzz around the final episode of the Sopranos than BB.
He isn't a more complex character. Just a more inconsistent one.
Even though it wasn’t, breaking bad feels like the story was written and planned expertly from the start. The beginning of ozymandias and the episodes that follow feel like they built the entire thing upto get to this point. It’s brilliantly written.
I never get that impression with better call Saul, it genuinely feels like they’re making it up as they go along which is fine because it worked for BB but in that sense the story just doesn’t feel as well written. Many of the things that happened throughout the series have little effect on the final season as people have already pointed out, Jimmys character jumps around a lot. Very fewof his experiences actually change his character permanently. Everyone involved with the shows has clearly improved, the actors, dialogue, cinematography etc is brilliant but that doesn’t matter if the story isn’t as good.
I never get that impression with better call Saul, it genuinely feels like they’re making it up as they go along which is fine because it worked for BB but in that sense the story just doesn’t feel as well written. Many of the things that happened throughout the series have little effect on the final season as people have already pointed out, Jimmys character jumps around a lot. Very fewof his experiences actually change his character permanently. Everyone involved with the shows has clearly improved, the actors, dialogue, cinematography etc is brilliant but that doesn’t matter if the story isn’t as good.
No. Ratings tell a vague story, but to compare finales 6 years apart when the landscape had massively massively shifted isn't a fair comparison. Sopranos wasn't even at it's actually own peak of popularity for it's finale, in America and especially not worldwide, where it wasn't even aired until months later unless you torrented, and it usually wasn't even the most popular torrent of the week at the time for episodic TV (24 & LOST).
Breaking Bad's final 5b season was mesmeric growth, utterly unheard of and unmatched for sheer speed in how massive it went so quickly. People were binging the whole series to catch up before every new episode of that series. Obviously in terms of pure popularity, Game of Thrones has obiliterated it again, but that was steady growth season on season.
I'm not talking runs as a whole either, just the endings. I was a pretty die hard Sopranos fan throughout most of it's run(still am!), I just don't think it was on the same scale, but how can you be, MySpace was the prime social media when one ended.... Breaking Bad was also just far more accessible to the casual view.
Sorry, but this is just recency bias. By this logic, Star Wars really wasn't that big of a thing compared to say ... Avengers, because "social media" and "Netflix".
Anyway, discussing popularity is missing my point. I just felt the this statement was way off the mark:
"I can only assume it was a lot of peoples first introduction to serials after years of watching procedural cop shows where they catch a serial killer every week."
You'd have to subtract every BB viewer that had watched The Sopranos or The Wire (and then some, probably).
BB did not introduce more interesting television. We did not go from Smallville to Breaking Bad.
It's probably somewhere in the middle to be fair, of course there are other shows and iconic shows. But Breaking Bad brought on a big growth for serial dramas, and the amount "what should I watch next?" - there was a fair whack that hadn't actually watched Sopranos, The Wire, West Wing, X-Files, you know, stuff from a previous generation. Check recommendation threads on this very forum forget endless other options elsewhere and from a personal point of view.
I don't see their being recency bias in what I'm saying, Breaking Bad, at the absolute worse, can't be debated that in it's final 8 or so episode run was the most discussed series in the world. When the Sopranos was running it's final run, it wasn't, not even in America alone. This isn't the sleight on the Sopranos you seem to think it is, it's the greatest show ever, and one of, if not the most influencial.
I don't see their being recency bias in what I'm saying, Breaking Bad, at the absolute worse, can't be debated that in it's final 8 or so episode run was the most discussed series in the world. When the Sopranos was running it's final run, it wasn't, not even in America alone. This isn't the sleight on the Sopranos you seem to think it is, it's the greatest show ever, and one of, if not the most influencial.
Really enjoyed the final season of this, and when taken as a whole it's a very good drama and story with excellent acting and writing, but anyone who says it's a better series than Breaking Bad is a tedious hipster bore.
It will benefit from people being able to binge watch it, since the pacing is snail-like a lot of the time.
It will benefit from people being able to binge watch it, since the pacing is snail-like a lot of the time.
I finished this today. What an incredible show.
Finished it. It's probably my favourite series of all time. Jimmy finds redemption and atonement almost Raskinlikov style with Kim his Sonia. Great characters, great series
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Just finished it 2 days ago.
I really like this season upto until after episode 9. Before that it was great watching Kim and Saul break down Jimmy before some things happen. After that the black and white parts were just boring me and I didn't care for them. Its like the El Camino movie, that was a pointless movie for the series. Yeah it was good seeing him scheme all the time but do we REALLY need to see the aftermath for 4 episodes, it really dragged on and killed momentum. The ending was kinda bitter for me, but I understand why he did it. So I like the ending. But in saying that i kinda wish he got away with it all. Kept skipping the first 5 mins was annoying with the artsy shots of random stuff. Overall it was a solid show and it ended pretty well. Loved the interaction between WW and Saul. The interrogation scene was really good.
BB is by far better in almost every way. But this show did really well keeping a boring idea really damn entertaining for 6 seasons.
I really like this season upto until after episode 9. Before that it was great watching Kim and Saul break down Jimmy before some things happen. After that the black and white parts were just boring me and I didn't care for them. Its like the El Camino movie, that was a pointless movie for the series. Yeah it was good seeing him scheme all the time but do we REALLY need to see the aftermath for 4 episodes, it really dragged on and killed momentum. The ending was kinda bitter for me, but I understand why he did it. So I like the ending. But in saying that i kinda wish he got away with it all. Kept skipping the first 5 mins was annoying with the artsy shots of random stuff. Overall it was a solid show and it ended pretty well. Loved the interaction between WW and Saul. The interrogation scene was really good.
BB is by far better in almost every way. But this show did really well keeping a boring idea really damn entertaining for 6 seasons.
"Stuff from a previous generation". You literally mentioned shows that were still airing after BB launched.
I get that BB is your favorite show, but it's not the biggest landmark in television history you're making it out to be.
I don't really care that The Beatles are more significant to music history than Ronnie James Dio. I can enjoy the latter just fine without having to pretend he's more influential.
So what now for the BB universe?
I'd like to see some animated shorts that explain some of the back stories like Gus Youth/Life in Chile/Rise to Prominence and Walts Exit from Grey Matter.
Apart from that I don't really have much of an appetite for more content.
I think this is it. I'm usually one of those people that hates when execs want to expand on a universe (as it's usually poorly thought out and is just a money making scheme re: Matrix, Jurassic World etc). The BB universe is an exception to this rule.
If they were to go anywhere in this universe, I'd really want to see something like 'The Rise of the Salamancas' - with a show showing Hector from adolescence into old age, and bringing in Tuco, Lalo and the twins (but obviously in their younger years). You could also incorporate how they fall under Don Eladio and what not. I personally think anything with Gus, or Mike in would be a bit redundant as we've already covered so much with them.
They could also go with Jesse in Alaska, but I think there's enough closure with his story now. The only other thing I can think of is Kim doing Legal Aid in Florida...and she eventually gets the itch and slowly becomes a newer, better version of Saul. But how different would this really be to Jimmy/Saul's storyline?
The other idea is having a series focusing on the hoover man who gives people new identities and see what scrapes, problems he gets into. Only problem is the actor that played him died in 2019.
I too thought about Hoover man reading that question, however, I think maintaining some elements of mystery in the universe is fun.
Agree - I was even thinking about this with the BCS. Would it have been better for him to go off under a new identity and that be it rather than seeing what transpired as Gene?
Yeah Rise of the Salamancas would be great with perhaps a lot of focus on Lalo. But yeah it's probably best they ended it. Anyway best character? Probably Nacho although Lalo was the most fun. As for comparisons with BB. I love BB, I think BCS has richer more complex characters, and it's more slower paced. BB is a fun exhilarating rollcoaster ride and probably more iconic . BCS is my favourite but you have to watch BB first. Love them both but BCS edges it for me.