Best way to defend Arsenal’s sh*thouse corners? | Or most other corners

Chief123 said:
Of course they can.
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Not as far as I am aware, if the ball is dead, you could punch someone in the face in the box, or roundhouse them when the ball is out of play and the referee can't give a penalty.

He can book you or send you off, but he can't penalise it as a foul, which would mean a penalty.
 
Think you have to start over exaggerating contact as well, both goals our players are pushed and nothing given.
 
Their players concentrate on one side of penalty area, so make a chain with players (similar to wall when free kick is taken) from far post to penalty area edge direction and dont allow their players go through. They will have to run around the chain and not be able to be in front of the goal in time. Running players around chain will be man marked with last man in the chain. So simple. You have to manage the run of opponents the direction you want them to run, which is not directly to the goal.
 
Had a CB in my youth club who had a habit of sticking a finger between the butt cheeks of the man whom he was marking whenever the latter tried to head the ball.

It would instantly break the jump. Discreet and very efficient.
 
3 rows of 3 defenders tight together in front of their pack. Make them get through 3 layers.
 
Put your best header near post to at least eliminate that near post option.
 
Oranges038 said:
Not as far as I am aware, if the ball is dead, you could punch someone in the face in the box, or roundhouse them when the ball is out of play and the referee can't give a penalty.

He can book you or send you off, but he can't penalise it as a foul, which would mean a penalty.
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Did they give a pen to spurs when martial got the red for the slap at a corner? Can't remember
 
Irwin99 said:
A Macedonian pike phalanx would work a treat if we could somehow make it legal

I like the idea mentioned of just forming a wall to stop the runs. Defenders aren't obliged to get out of the way if someone runs into them :D
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Surely they would give fouls as the players running in are trying to make a play for the ball whereas the defenders arent and are impeding?
 
Chief123 said:
I don’t even see why it has got to this point. We are discussing how do we stop Arsenal from scoring by breaking the rules. Every corner they have clear fouls taking place with players pushing or barging players out of the way.

The refs and FA need to do their jobs properly and actually apply the rule of fouls. Arsenal have simply taken advantage of the general leniency towards fouls in the box during corners. I’ve never understood why the softest of fouls outside the boxes are given, yet blatant fouls inside the box are ignored.

Arsenal are not doing anything ground breaking. They are swinging the ball into a dangerous area with amazing consistency. Big guys getting on the end of it while other players disrupt the defence by fouling them and getting away with it.
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Every corner taken by every team in the PL involves pushing, barging, etc. Arsenal isn't doing anything other teams aren't doing every weekend, they just have better delivery, more tall players than most other sides, a playing style that generates more corners to begin with, and some well practiced routines.

One of the most basic things Arsenal does, that United really struggled with, is creating overloads of players either at the near or far post. They generally have six players in the corner routine and then they will overload the near post with 4-5 players or overload the far post with 4-5 players. If the defense is just marking zonally in a line then you can end up being really overmatched in the landing zone. The Timber goal featured three Arsenal players right in the spot where the ball was coming down near post and the Saliba goal had like four Arsenal players versus 1-2 United players near the back post. The defense just has to communicate better or have some kind of mixed scheme where some defenders are purely zonal and a few react to wherever the ball is going.
 
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I have a solution that will work. The crosses and it’s pinpoint accuracy is the biggest issue here for opponents.

What I would do is have four sets of duos across and varying distances to the goal line defending. Once the ball is the air, one of the duos lifts the defender high in the air to head the ball. If it still passes the first duo in the front post, the second duo get to work and lift of themselves up. This will stop balls from coming to the desired spot.
 
arnie_ni said:
Did they give a pen to spurs when martial got the red for the slap at a corner? Can't remember
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No, I went back and watched the highlights of that game, fecking hell it was awful. The state of the goals conceded.

It was just a corner, 1 red card, 1 yellow card.
 
Probably repeating a lot that has been said already but Onana needs to moving his feet and being ready to pounce on any near post and 6 yard spot deliveries. The players need to actually move their feet and not jump from the spot. It's fine to play zonal but you still need to protect the most important areas namely, near post, 6 yard spot, back post and then second/third etc balls. Allocate the right players i.e height, jumping power/strength etc for those spots.

The issue was that Onana and everybody defending was too static. 1) Make space for yourself 2) get goal side of your opposition player 3) jostle as much legally possible to get them off balance/without a clean run up etc and know your areas or opposition partner.
 
Oranges038 said:
Not as far as I am aware, if the ball is dead, you could punch someone in the face in the box, or roundhouse them when the ball is out of play and the referee can't give a penalty.

He can book you or send you off, but he can't penalise it as a foul, which would mean a penalty.
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You might not be aware of it, but a penalty can 100% be awarded even when the ball is dead. It has been law for a long time. If a player punches someone inside the box while the ball is dead and the ref or VAR see it, it’s a red card and penalty. It doesn’t matter what phase of the game it is.
 
criticalanalysis said:
Probably repeating a lot that has been said already but Onana needs to moving his feet and being ready to pounce on any near post and 6 yard spot deliveries. The players need to actually move their feet and not jump from the spot. It's fine to play zonal but you still need to protect the most important areas namely, near post, 6 yard spot, back post and then second/third etc balls. Allocate the right players i.e height, jumping power/strength etc for those spots.

The issue was that Onana and everybody defending was too static. 1) Make space for yourself 2) get goal side of your opposition player 3) jostle as much legally possible to get them off balance/without a clean run up etc and know your areas or opposition partner.
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I think it’s easier said than done. As someone who’s played GK myself at amateur level, if you take a stance at the near post in anticipation of catching/punching the ball before an attacking player gets a head on it, it’s very easy to counter especially if the attacking team clocks on to your positioning. They will just deliver the ball to the far post at which point it pretty much takes the keeper out of the game. Arsenal have already scored a number of goals like this to the back post which Gabriel has headed in.

The reason why Arsenal are having so much success on set pieces is because they have the perfect combination required in order to be successful with it. They have a team which has an abundance of height and physical presence in a box with a number of players who are good in the air along with the fact that they are able to deliver very dangerous balls with incredible consistency from the likes of Rice and Saka. A lot of teams have had players who are dangerous on set pieces but not necessarily had the consistency of deliveries or vice versa where they have a great taker of set pieces but not the team to be able to attack the ball consistently. Add to that a 3rd aspect which is clever fouling to the point where it’s a foul but not enough for refs or VAR to flag up on it.
 
DownRiver said:
I have a solution that will work. The crosses and it’s pinpoint accuracy is the biggest issue here for opponents.

What I would do is have four sets of duos across and varying distances to the goal line defending. Once the ball is the air, one of the duos lifts the defender high in the air to head the ball. If it still passes the first duo in the front post, the second duo get to work and lift of themselves up. This will stop balls from coming to the desired spot.
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Great creativity. Unfortunately, lifting a teammate is “illegal assistance” in the laws of football and regarded as a foul.
 
Chief123 said:
You might not be aware of it, but a penalty can 100% be awarded even when the ball is dead. It has been law for a long time. If a player punches someone inside the box while the ball is dead and the ref or VAR see it, it’s a red card and penalty. It doesn’t matter what phase of the game it is.
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https://www.thefa.com/football-rule.../football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct

Very first paragraph.


"Direct and indirect free kicks and penalty kicks can only be awarded for offences committed when the ball is in play."
 
This thread has a very 2005 "How Would You Defend Kerlon's Seal Dribble" feel to it.
 
Buy Brantwaithe next to Yoro.

Absolute giants of players that can go shut up Arsenals giants.

Brantwaithes poor performance against us has put some doubt in alot of us including me -

But 3 out of 3 games since he has been back has been clean sheets except against us.

If he was a Ten Hag player (which could be because how he like players with a history in the eridivise then avoid; if he is an Ineos target then lets see).

Im not sure players like Martinez, Mazroui, Shaw are going to give you much set piece stability from Arsenal & thats because players like Partey, Gabriel, Saliba, Timber, Califiori & Rice are all tanks.

This is especially true when we also play wingbacks like Amad, Malacia, Dalot etc.

Not every team plays like Stoke - but its good to have some different tactical abilities in the club/squad - if we have to face players like Gabriel & Saliba from corners - lets go find players that are bigger than them who can shut them up.

Another player is Haaland. I dont think you can play just ball playing defenders and expect him to be shut down all the time even if a back 3 gives us a numerical advantage - but the rise of physical strikers should raise the importance of physical defenders again.

Lets go find out next Vidic rather than always trying to find a CB thats amazing on the ball but has no ability to jump or slide to get the ball in dangerous situations.
 
Donaldo said:
This thread has a very 2005 "How Would You Defend Kerlon's Seal Dribble" feel to it.
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6 ACL injuries did it there. It's usually 6 Arsenal players attacking the corners, right?
 
Shaw's Shank Redemption said:
Buy Brantwaithe next to Yoro.

Absolute giants of players that can go shut up Arsenals giants.

Brantwaithes poor performance against us has put some doubt in alot of us including me -

But 3 out of 3 games since he has been back has been clean sheets except against us.

If he was a Ten Hag player (which could be because how he like players with a history in the eridivise then avoid; if he is an Ineos target then lets see).

Im not sure players like Martinez, Mazroui, Shaw are going to give you much set piece stability from Arsenal & thats because players like Partey, Gabriel, Saliba, Timber, Califiori & Rice are all tanks.

This is especially true when we also play wingbacks like Amad, Malacia, Dalot etc.

Not every team plays like Stoke - but its good to have some different tactical abilities in the club/squad - if we have to face players like Gabriel & Saliba from corners - lets go find players that are bigger than them who can shut them up.

Another player is Haaland. I dont think you can play just ball playing defenders and expect him to be shut down all the time even if a back 3 gives us a numerical advantage - but the rise of physical strikers should raise the importance of physical defenders again.

Lets go find out next Vidic rather than always trying to find a CB thats amazing on the ball but has no ability to jump or slide to get the ball in dangerous situations.
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Ball playing defenders reduce the number of set pieces for the opponent, though.
 
Chipper said:
Best way to defend Forest's corners?
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You kept Holjund + Bruno at the near post and Martinez marking a 7ft tall Forest player. Holjund saw his designated player run and didn't follow which is fine i guess judging the trajectory of the ball. But then you look at DeLigt and Dalot both misdjuding and completely missing the ball... There is definitely a part of luck but it's mostly terrible organisation.
 
Zehner said:
Ball playing defenders reduce the number of set pieces for the opponent, though.
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I thought todays performance showed the need for physical and tall defenders.

A fit & experienced Yoro, Maguire, De Ligt, Brantwaithe gives us 4 very good physically dominant CB's.

We can then use players like Mazroui or Martinez to add some ball playing ability when needed to either side or centrally.

Im not saying ball playing defenders are not important - but to have 3 ball playing defenders is just not needed.

2 rio ferdinands is not good as one ferdinand and one vidic in a back 4 system.

We need to have the squad depth & ability to play 2 vidic's with 1 rio depending on our opponent & not always playing 2 rio's protected by one vidic.

Its a poor example because rio was good defensively but i hope you get what im trying to say.

Make united's defence scary again and hard to get past.

I actually think Maguire should be starting now to add some physicality back in our defence again & playing in a back 3 will make that really shine.
 
Chief123 said:
I think it’s easier said than done. As someone who’s played GK myself at amateur level, if you take a stance at the near post in anticipation of catching/punching the ball before an attacking player gets a head on it, it’s very easy to counter especially if the attacking team clocks on to your positioning. They will just deliver the ball to the far post at which point it pretty much takes the keeper out of the game. Arsenal have already scored a number of goals like this to the back post which Gabriel has headed in.

The reason why Arsenal are having so much success on set pieces is because they have the perfect combination required in order to be successful with it. They have a team which has an abundance of height and physical presence in a box with a number of players who are good in the air along with the fact that they are able to deliver very dangerous balls with incredible consistency from the likes of Rice and Saka. A lot of teams have had players who are dangerous on set pieces but not necessarily had the consistency of deliveries or vice versa where they have a great taker of set pieces but not the team to be able to attack the ball consistently. Add to that a 3rd aspect which is clever fouling to the point where it’s a foul but not enough for refs or VAR to flag up on it.
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I understand what you're saying but you can't just be standing in no man's land in the middle and just react. The keeper has the most reach so he should be looking to cover/commit to the near post and 6 yard spot areas, not just standing on the goal line. I know it's a fine line between overcommitting and reading the flight of the ball but in Onana's case, he's still too static for my liking. It's a coaching/preparation and individual issue.
 
I always laugh when I read "just go man to man with them".
The whole point of positioning the players outside of far post as their initial starting position, is to prevent man to man. Unless you're willing to also vacate your six yard box following them, in which case good luck with that. it's suicide.
That's why this corner routine is so difficult to handle.

I'm loving this.
 
awop said:
You kept Holjund + Bruno at the near post and Martinez marking a 7ft tall Forest player. Holjund saw his designated player run and didn't follow which is fine i guess judging the trajectory of the ball. But then you look at DeLigt and Dalot both misdjuding and completely missing the ball... There is definitely a part of luck but it's mostly terrible organisation.
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Dalot is the biggest culprit for me, the ball is headed from where he was standing. But he takes a couple of steps towards the ball, gets caught under it and can't do anything about it. If he held his initial position, he can probably get a head to it.
 
I have never been a fan of zonal marking. I much prefer man to man.
But which ever system, the players have to attack the ball and try to get to it first.
 
That_Bloke said:
Had a CB in my youth club who had a habit of sticking a finger between the butt cheeks of the man whom he was marking whenever the latter tried to head the ball.

It would instantly break the jump. Discreet and very efficient.
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Pablo Alfaro used to do that.

Of course, "doctor death" was also an actual doctor, so he could rightly claim physical examination.
 
Shaw's Shank Redemption said:
Buy Brantwaithe next to Yoro.

Absolute giants of players that can go shut up Arsenals giants.

Brantwaithes poor performance against us has put some doubt in alot of us including me -

But 3 out of 3 games since he has been back has been clean sheets except against us.

If he was a Ten Hag player (which could be because how he like players with a history in the eridivise then avoid; if he is an Ineos target then lets see).

Im not sure players like Martinez, Mazroui, Shaw are going to give you much set piece stability from Arsenal & thats because players like Partey, Gabriel, Saliba, Timber, Califiori & Rice are all tanks.

This is especially true when we also play wingbacks like Amad, Malacia, Dalot etc.

Not every team plays like Stoke - but its good to have some different tactical abilities in the club/squad - if we have to face players like Gabriel & Saliba from corners - lets go find players that are bigger than them who can shut them up.

Another player is Haaland. I dont think you can play just ball playing defenders and expect him to be shut down all the time even if a back 3 gives us a numerical advantage - but the rise of physical strikers should raise the importance of physical defenders again.

Lets go find out next Vidic rather than always trying to find a CB thats amazing on the ball but has no ability to jump or slide to get the ball in dangerous situations.
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Our team weren't even giants midweek. Our defence was made up of Timber, Saliba, Kiwior and Zinchenko. 2 of those are under 6 ft, and Kiwior and Saliba aren't exactly known for being aerially dominant.

Rice is tall but he is 1 of the main set pieces takers. Partey is just over 6 feet, and Havertz is tall but you wouldn't say he's an aggressive powerful header of a ball.

Actually just checked. I think Utd were actually taller in defence.

Onana is 1.9m > Raya 1.83m.
Maguire 1.94m > Saliba 1.93m
De Ligt 1.9m > Kiwior 1.89m
Mazraoui 1.83m > Timber 1.79m
Dalot 1.84m > Zinchenko 1.75m.

I just think Utd didn't defend the corners well at all. Teams like Newcastle and Inter showed that they can defend the corners well, and we had guys like Gabriel playing those games.
 
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GoonerBear said:
Our team weren't even giants midweek. Our defence was made up of Timber, Saliba, Kiwior and Zinchenko. 2 of those are under 6 ft, and Kiwior and Saliba aren't exactly known for being aerially dominant.

Rice is tall but he is 1 of the main set pieces takers. Partey is just over 6 feet, and Havertz is tall but you wouldn't say he's an aggressive powerful header of a ball.

Actually just checked. I think Utd were actually taller in defence.

Onana is 1.9m > Raya 1.83m.
Maguire 1.94m > Saliba 1.93m
De Ligt 1.9m > Kiwior 1.89m
Mazraoui 1.83m > Timber 1.79m
Dalot 1.84m > Zinchenko 1.75m.

I just think Utd didn't defend the corners well at all. Teams like Newcastle and Inter showed that they can defend the corners well, and we had guys like Gabriel playing those games.
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Yeah, I'd call teams like Newcastle the real shithouses. They've got the dark arts down pat too. Best way to get under our skin atm.
 
At the very least have players on both posts that don't shit the bed when the ball comes there way.
 
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