Best way to defend Arsenal’s sh*thouse corners? | Or most other corners

Slow their run up. Keeper dominated 6 yard. Concede fewer than 12 corners
 
Keepers are protected, you need to take advantage of that. If Arsenal are going to all stand outside the back post the area is basically clear for the keeper.

Block the Arsenal runs and let the keeper deal with it or he should collapse in a heap holding his face.

Corner routines are always a novelty, England made a tournament out it! it will work for a few weekends before it gets found out.
 
Man to man and keeper has to be more aggressive as already said. But that delivery was outrageously good, the speed and height was constantly superb which I didn't quite seen before. To the point I was fuming even before the 2nd goal when Rashford let that stupid and unnecessary corner.
 
Don't give them so many for a start. Rashford's was especially ridiculous but unsurprising.
 
Managers publically calling out their antics would be a start.

Otherwise keepers just need to go for the ball and more players need to go down when they’re being held and impeded. Arsenal are using the dark arts and playing nice is not the way to counter it.
 
Fall like you've been shot
With VAR's lower thresholds for intervening, exaggerating blocking offences in the box like this is the way to do it. Get all the players to kick off at the apparent huge injustice. Now VAR will feel obliged to review, and then the ref will watch the block in slow motion and rule out the goal.
 
When the 2 handed straight arm push in the back of our players doesn't appear to even trigger a glance from VAR, you have to feel they got their tactics just right.

We do need to be better though. We aren't shithouse enough as a team. Nor do we complain as much as most teams. I hope Amorim realises we need to stand up for ourselves.
 
Managers publically calling out their antics would be a start.

Otherwise keepers just need to go for the ball and more players need to go down when they’re being held and impeded. Arsenal are using the dark arts and playing nice is not the way to counter it.
I'm convinced the ref would blow if we did the same
 
Just stand in a line and block their runs. It’s really easy. Have 6/7 players line up at the back post and face the ball, let them run in to you and see what happens. The defenders are not obliged to move to someone runs at them from behind
I think some version of this is the answer, along with have your keeper be very aggressive on the ball coming in. Just sitting there and letting them come crashing in creating a clusterfeck of players and the ball 3 yards from the goal is asking to concede.
 
Leave 6 players at the midfield line and defend with 4. This means Arsenal knows if they do not score, they are probably getting scored on so they will leave 6 defenders and then its 5v4 at the box and GK has room to come out of the goal, no bum rushing.
 
A question for the goalies in this thread. I know the deliveries are wicked but if they are that close to the goal should the keeper not be trying to claim them all? Or is it because he's being blocked off too?
 
A question for the goalies in this thread. I know the deliveries are wicked but if they are that close to the goal should the keeper not be trying to claim them all? Or is it because he's being blocked off too?

Definitely that.

Arsenal wouldn't get away with this in a league like La Liga, where even just competing with the keeper for a ball inside the six yard box will get blown as a foul.
 
  1. The defenders form a human pen by holding hands.
  2. When the whistle is blown the manager then whistles and shouts 'Come by' to the wingback, who then corrals the miscreant Stokites into their new home.
 
A Macedonian pike phalanx would work a treat if we could somehow make it legal

I like the idea mentioned of just forming a wall to stop the runs. Defenders aren't obliged to get out of the way if someone runs into them :D
 
They use 2 tactics, real pace front post or back post delivery.

Put your tallest outfield player front post for that whipped delivery.. like the first goal, should have been dealt with by Hojlund.

Second goal was not even good delivery, was just crap defending leaving 3 players free at the back post.

Maguire was flying an imaginery plane on the first goal. Surely if you know they are all coming from the back post, you block their runs too.
 
I don't remember us taking a "normal" corner in the past 6 months and this is how you were training before the game:



Maybe start there and adapt your training methods to the opponent. I hope you actually did in your private training sessions and it's just a question of time to get it right.
As others said, the accuracy and zip of the delivery from Saka and Rice are a huge part. They do come in pretty fast so unless the GK punches it (without killing Gabriel in the process) you have to have one good header of the ball at the first post and one at the far one. Sticking Holjund there who seemingly never learned to jump was a bad idea.

Forming a line of 4/5 players at the back to force us going around could work but then a short corner and Odegaard/Martinelli/Rice shooting or crossing in a second phase could be an option.
 
You'll have to buy Rice and Saka up. The delivery is 90% of the job and both of them are doing a brilliant job, the corners are like missiles and would likely end up in the goal even without a bunch of 6.3 players attacking them. In fact, one of the corners almost ended up in the goal off a defender. They just need a touch.

Exactly this, the deliveries have been brilliant and as a result the defending team will always be under pressure straight away.

Meanwhile the majority of teams struggle to beat the first man or have given up crossing it in altogether and Arsenal have multiple players that take lethal corners.
 
Their deliveries are great which is 80% of the issue. The other 20% is that they are getting away with a lot of pushing and shoving. The difference is that they aren't trying to climb over players or go with them, they are generally quite static by the time the ball arrives and they are trying to block off players and make space.

I'm always amazed at how poor the average corner is in top level football and Arsenal are showing what happens when you have someone who can actually reliably put the ball exactly where they want it. As we saw. Unless defenders can get a clear contact, it doesn't take much to put the ball in the net from top quality corners.
 
i hate zonal marking as a general theme...too static and it allows for too many variables

put one guy zonal on the front to help with the near post, one on the six....a man on each post....everyone else man marks

issue only with the man marking is the ref HAS to watch the blocking and pushing that arsenal have built into their attacking movements
 
A lot of good posts already, especially about the quality of delivery. The one thing I'd add there is that Arsenal only does in-swingers. There is a very clear philosophy that the most dangerous corner is a driven or whipped inswinger and it makes total sense. The ball is already moving toward the goal so it needs less of a touch, its much easier to land this kind of corner close to the goal, and you also create the possibility of the ball going in directly, giving the keeper another thing to worry about. While inswingers are probably more popular for every side in general, it amazes me how many teams continue to take a fair number of outswinging corners, often because they have one player as their corner taker and he takes them from both sides.

I think the most interesting thing about Arsenal's strategy is that its in some ways a tactical answer to two broader trends in the game. First is a philosophy of defending, somewhat in response to the trend toward positional play sides with inverted wingers, that is premised on packing the middle of the pitch to force the ball out wide and then fullbacks taught to show their wingers down the line rather than letting them cut inside. The whole idea is that if you can cover the cutbacks lanes and angles, you can very much live with situations in which a winger simply crosses on his weak foot or you concede a corner, which has historically been only like a 3% chance to score in aggregate across the PL. But if the attacking team can get really good at corners while not sacrificing their ability to get into the final third regularly against most opponents in general, they put other sides into a big dilemma.

The second is the spread of ball playing GKs. Its just very hard to find a GK who can play with his feet at an elite level, is a good shot stopper, AND really can command his area. A lot of teams who are bent on trying to play in possession end up sacrificing the third quality under the assumption that they will dominate possession enough, or keep the ball away from their own area via a high press often enough, that commanding the area won't be required that often - I think Onana, Ederson, and Vicario are all examples from big clubs but you can also point to GKs like Meslier, Kepa, Pickford, etc. A lot of PL keepers are weak in the air these days, you don't have that many 6'4 or 6'5 behemoths who can fight through traffic and punch or catch anything put within their reach. So if you can just keep whipping corners right into a congested six yard box against these GKs, you're in business. Arsenal are certainly not the only side trying to take advantage of this trend, they've just been the most successful so far.
 
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A lot of good posts already, especially about the quality of delivery. The one thing I'd add there is that Arsenal only does in-swingers. There is a very clear philosophy that the most dangerous corner is a driven or whipped inswinger and it makes total sense. The ball is already moving toward the goal so it needs less of a touch, its much easier to land this kind of corner close to the goal, and you also create the possibility of the ball going in directly, giving the keeper another thing to worry about. While inswingers are probably more popular for every side in general, it amazes me how many teams continue to take a fair number of outswinging corners, often because they have one player as their corner taker and he takes them from both sides.

I think the most interesting thing about Arsenal's strategy is that its in some ways a tactical answer to two broader trends in the game. First is a philosophy of defending, somewhat in response to the trend toward positional play sides with inverted wingers, that is premised on packing the middle of the pitch to force the ball out wide and then fullbacks taught to show their wingers down the line rather than letting them cut inside. The whole idea is that if you can cover the cutbacks lanes and angles, you can very much live with situations in which a winger simply crosses on his weak foot or you concede a corner, which has historically been only like a 3% chance to score in aggregate across the PL. But if the attacking team can get really good at corners while not sacrificing their ability to get into the final third regularly against most opponents in general, they put other sides into a big dilemma.

The second is the spread of ball playing GKs. Its just very hard to find a GK who can play with his feet at an elite level, is a good shot stopper, AND really can command his area. A lot of teams who are bent on trying to play in possession end up sacrificing the third quality under the assumption that they will dominate possession enough, or keep the ball away from their own area via a high press often enough, that commanding the area won't be required that often - I think Onana, Ederson, and Vicario are all examples from big clubs but you can also point to GKs like Meslier, Kepa, Pickford, etc. A lot of PL keepers are weak in the air these days, you don't have that many 6'4 or 6'5 behemoths who can fight through traffic and punch or catch anything put within their reach. So if you can just keep whipping corners right into a congested six yard box against these GKs, you're in business. Arsenal are certainly not the only side trying to take advantage of this trend, they've just been the most successful so far.
Whats Arsenal's conversion rate this season out of interest?

issue only with the man marking is the ref HAS to watch the blocking and pushing that arsenal have built into their attacking movements
I really dont think you can. There's so much movement, so much pushing and blocking that's deemed within the rules, so many people packed into the 6 yard box. I think its kind of up to VAR to be honest. I think if you watched back all their corners against us with a few replays half of them would result in a free out (including their first goal). We'd have probably conceded a couple of penalties too to be fair.
I'm not sure they're doing anything that special. Good delivery, a few guys who are good in the air and just a bit of determination, confidence and momentum. Its been disregarded for a while and teams aren't particularly well equipped for it.
 
Whats Arsenal's conversion rate this season out of interest?


I really dont think you can. There's so much movement, so much pushing and blocking that's deemed within the rules, so many people packed into the 6 yard box. I think its kind of up to VAR to be honest. I think if you watched back all their corners against us with a few replays half of them would result in a free out (including their first goal). We'd have probably conceded a couple of penalties too to be fair.
I'm not sure they're doing anything that special. Good delivery, a few guys who are good in the air and just a bit of determination, confidence and momentum. Its been disregarded for a while and teams aren't particularly well equipped for it.
no they aren't....they are putting the ball right on the keeper and getting bodies in there to make it tough for the keeper to get to the ball

you could clearly see on one corner, the push on Onana when he was trying to come off his line to punch the ball

if the ref allows it and VAR doesn't get involved, they'll keep doing it while scoring goals
 
I really dont think you can. There's so much movement, so much pushing and blocking that's deemed within the rules, so many people packed into the 6 yard box. I think its kind of up to VAR to be honest. I think if you watched back all their corners against us with a few replays half of them would result in a free out (including their first goal). We'd have probably conceded a couple of penalties too to be fair.
I'm not sure they're doing anything that special. Good delivery, a few guys who are good in the air and just a bit of determination, confidence and momentum. Its been disregarded for a while and teams aren't particularly well equipped for it.

Heard a theory today that they’re cynically exploiting VAR’s flaws. With the recent emphasis on quick decisions and sticking with Referees decision in all but exceptional circumstance, the VAR guy just doesn’t have the time to sequentially analyse 5 or 6 potential fouls, which all happened at once, so sticks with the referee’s interpretation of events. Meanwhile the referee avoids making a big call amongst all that chaos, hoping that VAR will help him out. Check mate.
 
Get good at corners yourself. Every game vs. them starts at 1-1.
 
Putting some xG numbers on it. Think the top one is more relvanent without the penalties.


Everything somewhat skewed here due to them going down to 10 men 3 times.

The way the City game played out where they created nothing either through set pieces or open play afterwards, and going down to 10 men early v Bournemouth would have had quite a bit of impact in one way or another I'd have thought. The guy doing these says he might start keeping his charts to 11 vs 11 in the future when someone brought that up on another of his tweets.

Still, suppose Spurs might think they could get as good as them if they tweaked a few things. Arsenal are not quite as far ahead of everyone as I'd have guessed. Even without the reds would think they wouldn't be at City's level from open play, or even Spurs.

Off-topic, that Chelsea open-play stat is big. But again helped by an unsual event - running riot in 1 game v Southampton who had 10 men for much of it as well. Even without it they're still excellent there.
 
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Sign an 8 feet tall unhinged maniac monster gk who comes out to collect high balls with an attitude of "either i get the ball or decapitate these feckers". Basically an 8 feet tall Neuer
 
Sign an 8 feet tall monster gk who comes out to collect high balls with an attitude of "either i get the ball or decapitate these feckers". Basically an 8 feet tall Neuer
Then we end up with no center backs at all :lol:
 
Then we end up with no center backs at all :lol:
When attackers are too scared of getting literally crippled by the psychotic unhinged maniac in goal, they'll stop attacking and you don't need center backs. Smort. Bayern/Germany should have leaned heavier into Neuer's inner Harald Schumacher
 
When attackers are too scared of getting literally crippled by the psychotic unhinged maniac in goal, they'll stop attacking and you don't need center backs. Smort. Bayern/Germany should have leaned heavier into Neuer's inner Harald Schumacher
We had one in goal playing Sunday League he would tell everyone they will cop it if they are in the way so we didn't bother :lol:
 
I don’t even see why it has got to this point. We are discussing how do we stop Arsenal from scoring by breaking the rules. Every corner they have clear fouls taking place with players pushing or barging players out of the way.

The refs and FA need to do their jobs properly and actually apply the rule of fouls. Arsenal have simply taken advantage of the general leniency towards fouls in the box during corners. I’ve never understood why the softest of fouls outside the boxes are given, yet blatant fouls inside the box are ignored.

Arsenal are not doing anything ground breaking. They are swinging the ball into a dangerous area with amazing consistency. Big guys getting on the end of it while other players disrupt the defence by fouling them and getting away with it.
 
But you only do it when the ball is dead, referee will step in to break it, it slows it down, disrupts their movement and their players lose focus.

Referee can't give a foul against you for it when the ball is dead.
Of course they can.
 
Go down. If you've 2-3 defenders going down under the pushing they seem to get away with it becomes an even bigger farce than it is now. If hojlund had gone down on both occasions theres no way both stand.

Managers need to start talking about it too, there is no other team in the league getting this sort of leeway when attacking set pieces.

Lastly it probably sounds ridiculous but taking the same number of players that arsenal take to the back post, to the edge of the box removes arsenals main advantage which is popping up around players who can't see them. It means you'd have 4-5 defenders attacking their own goal so high risk with how they contact the ball but job would be to basically put it anywhere but in their own goal. Bouncing on your feet in the 6 yard box benefits arsenal, whereas attacking it with some pace and a long look at ball and runners just makes it a foot race to win the header