Best striker in the world: Benzema or Lewandowski?

[Andrade]

It is not disrespectful to tell the truth - there is evidence that the Bundesliga is weak.

This is not the truth, just your opinion backed by some cherry picked data.

Dortmund (the current second-best team in Germany) got smashed in two games by the second-best team in Scotland.

First example: you can't build a case on one off results in knockout competitions. When Lyon knocked Man City out of the Champions League, did that mean the Premier league was weak?

Germany only has 1 team in the Champion's League, but La Liga and the Premier League both have 3.

And all I heard up until recently was that the Spanish league was seriously on the wane. Now it's a murderers row because 3 of their teams got through to this knockout stage of the CL in one particular season.

You can't do it by which teams do better in the Champions League and Europa League. Unless you are willing to agree that the Spanish league has been by far the strongest league over the past 10-15 years, which many PL fans are strangely unwilling to accept (not saying you are a PL fan, just speaking generally)

In 2016 and 2017, there was only one English team in the final 8. It didn't mean the Premier league was weak.

The league's highest goal scorers failing in other leagues has become a bit of a trend.

Which goal scorers are you talking about? The highest scorer is Lewa every year. Apart from him, Aubameyang has not done badly.

In order to determine this for players generally (not just scorers), you'd have to do a full assessment of who goes where (with all the leagues) and how they do. I can think of plenty of success stories off the top of my head: KDB, Gundogan, Kompany, Son, Kroos, Firminho, Rakitic, Rudiger, Sane, Khedira etc. I'm sure there's plenty more I'm forgetting.

You may be aware of players that have left the Bundesliga and not done well elsewhere. Have you kept tabs on every player that's left the Prem and failed? Every player that's left La Liga and failed? Every player that's left Italy and failed? I promise you, there's a good number in all those categories. I don't think it's quite as straightforward as you're making out.

It is not about saying Lewandowski is not a great player, but it is applying perspective when comparing outputs of players.

We're comparing two players. Benzema and Lewandowski. The difference in career goals is pretty close to 200. If you think that the reason is because the Bundesliga is weak, then you can believe that. I don't agree, I think there are much more logical explanations.

You can also look at 2012/13 (the strongest point of the Bundesliga - and the strongest in Europe that season) - there were only 2 players who scored 20 goals or more in the Bundesliga (Keissling: 25 goals; Lewandowski: 24 goals).

Ok, so when Messi and Ronaldo were scoring 50 goals a season, that meant la liga was weak? At a time when Spanish teams were dominating Europe across the board?

Last season, there were 5 players who got 20 goals or more (Lewandowski: 41; Silva: 28; Haaland: 27; Weghorst: 20; Kramaric: 20). Last season, in particular, raises a question mark as I think that is an undoubted sign of the league being ridiculously weak.

Four players scored 20+ goals in the Premier League in the 2019-2020 season. Four players scored 20+ goals in the 2018-2019 Premier league season. Four players scored 20+ goals in the 2017-2018 Premier league season. I guess the Premier League is very weak.

Lewandowski's goal scoring seemed far more normal (for a great player) when the Bundesliga was stronger. Now, he is scoring ridiculous amounts, and I think quite a lot of it is due to how weak the league has become. Just look at the records of the top 3 in 20/21: (41 goals in 29 games; 28 goals in 32 games; 27 goals in 28 games). That is mental to have 3 players with records like that in one season.

Or maybe he's just playing for a better team now? There's also that option. And in 2017-18, Salah scored 32 goals and Kane scored 30. Is that mental? Or are they just good players?

 

[genardk]

This is not the truth, just your opinion backed by some cherry picked data.

First example: you can't build a case on one off results in knockout competitions. When Lyon knocked Man City out of the Champions League, did that mean the Premier league was weak?

Imagine thinking the league with Bayern, Leipzig, Schalke is at the same status/difficulty level as the league with Liverpool, City, Chelsea or the league with Barca, Real, Atletico, Sevilla.. Yeah, definitely, football fans view Bundesliga as a top league along with La Liga & Premier League))

Imagine calling Bundesliga a top league when the last time a non-Bayern team won the CL was in 1997 and the last time a German team played won UEFA/Europa League was in 1996..
Since that time, Spanish teams won 11 CL + 11 EL. English teams won 6 CL + 4 EL. and German teams 3 CL...

Is there a special rivalry in Germany like El Classico or Liverpool-United that football fans all around the world follow? I am asking as I have no idea.
Do you think Bayern can win La Liga or Premier League 10 times in a row?

If we do a poll here, you will probably be the one and only person that would check the box that says Bundesliga is at the same level as Premier League and La Liga..

 

[footballistic orgasm]

Downplaying Lewandowski's goal tally because he plays in the Bundesliga doesn't make much sense because he also does it in the CL (and not just in the group stages) and also for the NT.

As for the strength of the Bundesliga and how Bayern would have (hypothetically) performed in the other top leagues in the last 10 years, i don't think they would have won the title 10x in a row in those leagues but they still would have won it more often than not IMO.

 

[Sayros]

They should come up with some kind of league where all these good teams from different leagues compete against one another so we can put these questions to rest, but not the champion's league, something that last longer, maybe a game every week or something.

 

[genardk]

Also, all these years, I have never heard top players dreaming of playing in Bundesliga. They tend to dream of playing in Spain or England or even Italy before (with some Bayern exceptions).

 

[Andrade]

Imagine thinking the league with Bayern, Leipzig, Schalke is at the same status/difficulty level as the league with Liverpool, City, Chelsea or the league with Barca, Real, Atletico, Sevilla.. Yeah, definitely, football fans view Bundesliga as a top league along with La Liga & Premier League))

Imagine calling Bundesliga a top league when the last time a non-Bayern team won the CL was in 1997 and the last time a German team played won UEFA/Europa League was in 1996..
Since that time, Spanish teams won 11 CL + 11 EL. English teams won 6 CL + 4 EL. and German teams 3 CL...

Is there a special rivalry in Germany like El Classico or Liverpool-United that football fans all around the world follow? I am asking as I have no idea.
Do you think Bayern can win La Liga or Premier League 10 times in a row?

If we do a poll here, you will probably be the one and only person that would check the box that says Bundesliga is at the same level as Premier League and La Liga..

You apparently support Juventus. They won Serie A 9 times in a row. You must think the Italian league is hot garbage.

See, that's the difference between you and me. If a player scored 400 goals playing in Italy, then I wouldn't say 'well, it's only the Italian league'. I'd say 'wow, that player's really good.' I guess you would be less impressed.

For the record, I didn't say that the Bundesliga is on 'the same level' as the Premier League or La Liga. I said that the difference, while it clearly exists, is often wildly exaggerated, and I don't think that someone scoring a lot of goals there is automatically questionable.

 

[genardk]

You apparently support Juventus. They won Serie A 9 times in a row. You must think the Italian league is hot garbage.

See, that's the difference between you and me. If a player scored 400 goals playing in Italy, then I wouldn't say 'well, it's only the Italian league'. I'd say 'wow, that player's really good.' I guess you would be less impressed.

For the record, I didn't say that the Bundesliga is on 'the same level' as the Premier League or La Liga. I said that the difference, while it clearly exists, is often wildly exaggerated, and I don't think that someone scoring a lot of goals there is automatically questionable.

Yes, Serie A has been a 1-team league for so long just like Bundesliga, no wonder why Italian teams overall had the worst period in European competitions since 80s during that decade, the old standard Serie A quality was just not there.. Juve was the only stand-out team at that time just like Bayern at Bundesliga. Therefore, Juve's local achievements are discounted.

By the way, I am not questioning Lewa's greatness, all I am saying is people do not care much about Bundesliga stats which is normal as very few people outside Germany would follow Bundesliga closely just like Ligue 1 due to lower quality. It is basically a feeder league for top teams outside Germany + Bayern. La Liga and PL on the other hand have traditionally been the target leagues for top players, same with Serie A in 80s-90s and early 2000s.

Benzema has been playing in a way more competitive league against higher quality rivals. The relative strength difference between Bayern vs its local rivals AND Real vs its local rivals on average is no comparison. Therefore, one has to put things into context when making a 1 on 1 comparison for players playing in different leagues.

 

[NewYorkRed]

Its close. But its Lewa.

 

[Andrade]

Yes, Serie A has been a 1-team league for so long just like Bundesliga, no wonder why Italian teams overall had the worst period in European competitions since 80s during that decade, the old standard Serie A quality was just not there.. Juve was the only stand-out team at that time just like Bayern at Bundesliga. Therefore, Juve's local achievements are discounted.

By the way, I am not questioning Lewa's greatness, all I am saying is people do not care much about Bundesliga stats which is normal as very few people outside Germany would follow Bundesliga closely just like Ligue 1 due to lower quality. It is basically a feeder league for top teams outside Germany + Bayern. La Liga and PL on the other hand have been traditionally the target leagues for the top players, same with Serie A in old times.

Benzema has been playing in a way more competitive league with higher quality rivals. The relative strength difference between Bayern vs its local rivals AND Real vs its local rivals on average is no comparison. Therefore, one has to put things into context when making a 1 on 1 comparison for players playing in different leagues.

If that were true then Lewa would struggle once he came up against the much higher quality teams in the Champions League. But that doesn't happen, so I'd suggest you are off with your analysis. He has more goals in the CL than Benzema and has played 33 less games.

The real reason for the difference in their numbers is that Benzema spent a decade doing Ronaldo's dirty work, not because of any difference in the leagues.

Benz only hit 20 league goals twice in 9 years when playing with CR7, and there were a couple of years when he didn't even get double figures. Is that because of the incredible strength of La Liga?!

Since CR's departure he's hit 20 league goals every single season. This season is the first time that he's got more than 10 goals in the CL as well. I mean, it's not hard to work out what happened.

The other partial reason for the gap in their overall tallies is Benz being shut out of the French national team for years.

 

[genardk]

If that were true then Lewa would struggle once he came up against the much higher quality teams in the Champions League. But that doesn't happen, so I'd suggest you are off with your analysis. He has more goals in the CL than Benzema and has played 33 less games.

The real reason for the difference in their numbers is that Benzema spent a decade doing Ronaldo's dirty work, not because of any difference in the leagues.

Benz only hit 20 league goals twice in 9 years when playing with CR7, and there were a couple of years when he didn't even get double figures. Is that because of the incredible strength of La Liga?!

Since CR's departure he's hit 20 league goals every single season. This season is the first time that he's got more than 10 goals in the CL as well. I mean, it's not hard to work out what happened.

The other partial reason for the gap in their overall tallies is Benz being shut out of the French national team for years.

You can continue thinking Bundesliga has similar level of superiority as La Liga or PL unlike almost everyone in this thread if that would make you feel good.
this is beyond absurd, sorry but 99.9999999% of the time, people who follow football would laugh if you tell them the above statement.

Imagine thinking a 1-team league with only 3 CL wins in the last 25 years is as competitive as La Liga with 11 CL+11 Europa League winners.. Who have Lewa's competitors been in Bundesliga as a top scorer in all these years? Aguero, CR7, Messi, Ibrahimovic, Benzema, Suarez, Neymar, Kane, Salah?
How many times has he been the top goal scorer in Champions League in all these years? Let me tell you, just "1". Put prime Suarez, Aguero at Bayern, they would destroy Bundesliga. Most top players just have zero interest in Bundesliga as it is an inferior league both objectively and perception wise.

Also, what exactly does your above analysis show? Nobody is saying that Lewa would struggle in La Liga or Premier League, but he would face much higher competition in La Liga or PL playing for a less dominant team. Bayern won 9 titles in a row, Real only 3 in the last 10 years. Even CR7 could only win 3 Pichichis in 9 years in La Liga, not that easy.

The unfortunate truth for you is that people just do not care much about stats in 1-team leagues like Bundesliga where there is limited competition, where non-Bayern teams regularly fail in European competitions year after year.

As for Benzema's output with/without Ronaldo, I have zero idea what you are trying to prove..

 

[TenonTen]

Laughing at the recency bias. Lewandowski has 7 consecutive 40 goals plus seasons now. For reference, only Messi(10), Ronaldo(9) have more.

Benzema yet to do that even once in his life.

So many excuses being made for his laughable seasons. He was just an inconsistent goalscorer in those years. He had 5 league goals in 17/18. Any actual elite player would be lambasted for that.

Ronaldo has assisted Benzema more than vice versa.

Also about the "dependent on service bollocks": everyone is.

For his very underwhelming national team, RL9 has 76 goals and 29 assists. Go and watch what service he gets there.

 

[kouroux]

Of course recent performances do matter because each time the time is bumped, it is to compare them at that moment.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Both are quality, we never had anything like them since RvP, Zalatan was alright and scored goals but was not sustainable, even if he didn't get injured, I doubt he would've sustained the same level as his first stint with us.

We Need our Lewandowski/Benzema version of CF who can bang in 40+ goals a year, we have CR7 now, but he had significantly slowed down at the age of 37.

 

[Flexdegea]

Laughing at the recency bias. Lewandowski has 7 consecutive 40 goals plus seasons now. For reference, only Messi(10), Ronaldo(9) have more.

Benzema yet to do that even once in his life.

So many excuses being made for his laughable seasons. He was just an inconsistent goalscorer in those years. He had 5 league goals in 17/18. Any actual elite player would be lambasted for that.

Ronaldo has assisted Benzema more than vice versa.

Also about the "dependent on service bollocks": everyone is.

For his very underwhelming national team, RL9 has 76 goals and 29 assists. Go and watch what service he gets there.

Can't believe what I'm reading with the downplaying of Lewa scoring.


If you take the German league as total shite, then why is he 3rd highest scorer in champs league history, must be Micky mouse too, also banging them in for a poor average enough Poland team.


Scandalous to run a player player down to big up another

 

[SilentStrike]

Benzema is in the form of his life and that coupled with the Real Madrid hype machine he is quickly elevating his status after being criticised for years.

Overall Lewandowski is the better striker, even if Benzema is in better form right now.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

Benzema has always been better in every facet of the game other than goalscoring

With the numbers he's putting up this year, in a significantly worse team, I don't think there's much debate to be have

 

[Andrade]

You can continue thinking Bundesliga has similar level of superiority as La Liga or PL unlike almost everyone in this thread if that would make you feel good.
this is beyond absurd, sorry but 99.9999999% of the time, people who follow football would laugh if you tell them the above statement.

Imagine thinking a 1-team league with only 3 CL wins in the last 25 years is as competitive as La Liga with 11 CL+11 Europa League winners.. Who have Lewa's competitors been in Bundesliga as a top scorer in all these years? Aguero, CR7, Messi, Ibrahimovic, Benzema, Suarez, Neymar, Kane, Salah?
How many times has he been the top goal scorer in Champions League in all these years? Let me tell you, just "1". Put prime Suarez, Aguero at Bayern, they would destroy Bundesliga. Most top players just have zero interest in Bundesliga as it is an inferior league both objectively and perception wise.

Also, what exactly does your above analysis show? Nobody is saying that Lewa would struggle in La Liga or Premier League, but he would face much higher competition in La Liga or PL playing for a less dominant team. Bayern won 9 titles in a row, Real only 3 in the last 10 years. Even CR7 could only win 3 Pichichis in 9 years in La Liga, not that easy.

The unfortunate truth for you is that people just do not care much about stats in 1-team leagues like Bundesliga where there is limited competition, where non-Bayern teams regularly fail in European competitions year after year.

As for Benzema's output with/without Ronaldo, I have zero idea what you are trying to prove..

What I said is pretty straightforward, but you appear to be struggling to understand, so let's stop here.

 

[Markolan]

It's not a question of quality of the league but attitude imho and as it's clear that it's easier to score in Bundesliga because most of the teams play attacking football that leads to being more fragile in defense. That's the reason of why German league is probably the most entertaining among the top5.

Yesterday Leipzig - Atalanta could easily finish 3-3 or 4-4, previous tie against Leverkusen could have ended 6-5 over 2 legs and La Dea has not really been an exciting team to watch in Serie A this season (in fact they're are only 7th in the league now, they terribly miss Papu and Ilicic's creativity)..

That's why the league goals scored between Benzema and Lewa can't really be compared, most of La Liga teams play catenaccio against Real Madrid. Against more organized defending teams Lewandowski would have much more troubles.


P.S.
Curious stat to prove my point:
In the past 3 seasons, 16 matches have been played between Bundesliga and Serie A teams and overall german teams have kept ZERO clean sheets against italian ones:
Juve- Leverkusen 3-0; 2-0. Inter - Dortmund 2-0 2-3; Roma BMG: 1-1 1-2; Inter Leverkusen 2-1; Lazio Dortmund 3-1, 1-1; Inter - BMG 2-2 3-2; Lazio Bayern 1-4 1-2; Atalanta Leverkusen 3-2 1-0; Leipzig - Atalanta 1-1.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Imagine thinking the league with Bayern, Leipzig, Schalke is at the same status/difficulty level as the league with Liverpool, City, Chelsea or the league with Barca, Real, Atletico, Sevilla.. Yeah, definitely, football fans view Bundesliga as a top league along with La Liga & Premier League))

Imagine calling Bundesliga a top league when the last time a non-Bayern team won the CL was in 1997 and the last time a German team played won UEFA/Europa League was in 1996..
Since that time, Spanish teams won 11 CL + 11 EL. English teams won 6 CL + 4 EL. and German teams 3 CL...

Is there a special rivalry in Germany like El Classico or Liverpool-United that football fans all around the world follow? I am asking as I have no idea.
Do you think Bayern can win La Liga or Premier League 10 times in a row?

If we do a poll here, you will probably be the one and only person that would check the box that says Bundesliga is at the same level as Premier League and La Liga..

Bayern wouldn’t have won the PL 10 times in a row but in the past 10 years I’d say they would have been strong enough to win at least 5-6 leagues, especially strong in the middle of the decade. In that time Dortmund had teams that were quite strong too, that would have probably finished 2nd and 3rd in the PL. That’s not the case right now, Bayern would probably be 3rd in the PL and Dortmund would be in the group chasing 4th.

 

[Cloud7]

Aidonia answered this question years ago

Spoiler

 

[Andrade]

Benzema is in the form of his life and that coupled with the Real Madrid hype machine he is quickly elevating his status after being criticised for years.

Overall Lewandowski is the better striker, even if Benzema is in better form right now.

Pretty much agree with this. The hype machine is out of control though, and everyone's jumping on the bandwagon. Apparently Evra said that Benz is the best French attacking player of all time. That's just madness.

Also worth pointing out that whilst it's true that Benz is in blistering form currently, Lewandowski is still the top scorer in the Champions League so far this season.

 

[Sayros]

Pretty much agree with this. The hype machine is out of control though, and everyone's jumping on the bandwagon. Apparently Evra said that Benz is the best French attacking player of all time. That's just madness.

Also worth pointing out that whilst it's true that Benz is in blistering form currently, Lewandowski is still the top scorer in the Champions League so far this season.

To be fair, Evra is a bit of a moron, I don't think there's many sensible people who take anything he says seriously.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

Pretty much agree with this. The hype machine is out of control though, and everyone's jumping on the bandwagon. Apparently Evra said that Benz is the best French attacking player of all time. That's just madness.

Also worth pointing out that whilst it's true that Benz is in blistering form currently, Lewandowski is still the top scorer in the Champions League so far this season.

Evra is absolutely right though.

And Lewandowski being the top scorer means nothing when you compare the opposition they played against.

 

[Andrade]

Evra is absolutely right though.

And Lewandowski being the top scorer means nothing when you compare the opposition they played against.

No Evra is not right.

And I didn't know we judge top scorers in the Champions League on who the goals were scored against. Shall we look at who Haaland scored against last season and scrub his name from the record books?

Anyway, who has Benz scored against exactly? A PSG team that can't defend for toffee and a Chelsea team in disarray for fairly obvious reasons behind the scenes. Unless you're talking about his goals against Sheriff and Shaktar?

 

[Idxomer]

Laughing at the recency bias. Lewandowski has 7 consecutive 40 goals plus seasons now. For reference, only Messi(10), Ronaldo(9) have more.

Benzema yet to do that even once in his life.

So many excuses being made for his laughable seasons. He was just an inconsistent goalscorer in those years. He had 5 league goals in 17/18. Any actual elite player would be lambasted for that.

Ronaldo has assisted Benzema more than vice versa.

Also about the "dependent on service bollocks": everyone is.

For his very underwhelming national team, RL9 has 76 goals and 29 assists. Go and watch what service he gets there.

He did get lambasted for that. It's the reason his thread here was created.

He still scored the 2 goals which got Madrid to the CL final and then opened the score against Liverpool, which is what people often forget to mention regarding that season.

 

[Sayros]

Evra is absolutely right though.

And Lewandowski being the top scorer means nothing when you compare the opposition they played against.

I don't understand how you can agree with that guy. He's wrong if he meant attacking player because Platini is comfortably above Benzema as an individual IMO.

As far as strikers go, I don't know if Just Fontaine can get a shout for his relatively shorter career, but who was just ridiculously prolific with the NT and at club level, but fair enough if not and Henry still above for me because I think national team achievements matter a lot if we're going to compare French legends, also the fact that Henry didn't really get back to being a CF professionally until he was already 22-23, so Benzema had some good years on him of banging goals in and Karim just passed Henry recently as an all-time goal scorer, albeit he played a supporting role at Madrid for a while but I also think that gets used a bit too much as a crutch to excuse his poor returns at times which had a lot to do with just poor finishing more than lack of opportunities. Henry never had the same success on the European stage, but I consider his 2005-06 campaign where he dragged Arsenal to the final of the CL as good of a run as you get from an individual.

If we're only looking at club form, then he definitely has a shout with his achievements as far as titles and statistics, but I think players like Platini, Zidane, Kopa, Henry are all in the conversation, with Platini pretty comfortably above them. Personal accolades that blow all these players away, 9 goals in 5 games of the Euro win (first trophy for France at last), dominant player in a Serie A stacked with legends where he stood out. Benzema stood out as a youngster, became part of a legendary team which he played a big part in, but was always in the shadow of CR7 until recently, where now people finally get to see him as the main man like we saw for a bit with Lyon.

It's not just about numbers in the court of the public opinion, it's also about perception and I just don't see him as the choice for many people as the #1 French player of all-time, at least I really don't see him that way right now but he's free to win a world cup and change some minds about that.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

No Evra is not right.

And I didn't know we judge top scorers in the Champions League on who the goals were scored against. Shall we look at who Haaland scored against last season and scrub his name from the record books?

Anyway, who has Benz scored against exactly? A PSG team that can't defend for toffee and a Chelsea team in disarray for fairly obvious reasons behind the scenes. Unless you're talking about his goals against Sheriff and Shaktar?

Evra is absolutely right.
Benzema is ahead of Henry in all possible metrics and it isn't even close if you compare their actual CL performances and numbers.
Henry is only rated higher by PL fans and due to having better "aura" as he was the main man for 7 seasons at Arsenal

Benzema scored a hat trick against PSG, a team Lewandowski was anonymous against the last time he's played them mind you. And another one against the defending champions, you trying to downplay the quality of these teams is hilarious considering Madrid weren't favorites according to the bookies against either.

The last memorable performance from Lewandowski in the K.O stage dates back to 2013 (Not saying he hasn't had any other great game, I'm specifically talking about a MEMORABLE world class performance) because scoring a goal in a 8-2 or 3-0 trashing isn't gonna remain in anyone's memory and that's what Lewandowski has been all about in the K.O stage, in 2020 he was not even top 5 players of his team in the Lisbon RO8/4/Final.

Mind you that Benzema actually plays with a team that scores significantly less goals than Bayern, we're talking between 40 to 50 less goals here (and that's in spite of Benzema having higher G+A than Lewandowski this season)

I don't understand how you can agree with that guy. He's wrong if he meant attacking player because Platini is comfortably above Benzema as an individual IMO.

As far as strikers go, I don't know if Just Fontaine can get a shout for his relatively shorter career, but who was just ridiculously prolific with the NT and at club level, but fair enough if not and Henry still above for me because I think national team achievements matter a lot if we're going to compare French legends, also the fact that Henry didn't really get back to being a CF professionally until he was already 22-23, so Benzema had some good years on him of banging goals in and Karim just passed Henry recently as an all-time goal scorer, albeit he played a supporting role at Madrid for a while but I also think that gets used a bit too much as a crutch to excuse his poor returns at times which had a lot to do with just poor finishing more than lack of opportunities. Henry never had the same success on the European stage, but I consider his 2005-06 campaign where he dragged Arsenal to the final of the CL as good of a run as you get from an individual.

If we're only looking at club form, then he definitely has a shout with his achievements as far as titles and statistics, but I think players like Platini, Zidane, Kopa, Henry are all in the conversation, with Platini pretty comfortably above them. Personal accolades that blow all these players away, 9 goals in 5 games of the Euro win (first trophy for France at last), dominant player in a Serie A stacked with legends where he stood out. Benzema stood out as a youngster, became part of a legendary team which he played a big part in, but was always in the shadow of CR7 until recently, where now people finally get to see him as the main man like we saw for a bit with Lyon.

It's not just about numbers in the court of the public opinion, it's also about perception and I just don't see him as the choice for many people as the #1 French player of all-time, at least I really don't see him that way right now but he's free to win a world cup and change some minds about that.

I mean no he's absolutely right if you only look a pure footballing level.
You simply can't compare modern footballers to guys like Kopa or Fontaine. The difference in fitness,technical skill and professionalism has skyrocketed. European football wasn't even the undisputed best stage of competition back when Kopa and Fontaine were playing football mind you with an insanely strong Brazilian league.

An average modern footballer makes the best of the 50s and 60s look like an amateur and that's not me trying to downplay their achievement. That's just got to show how much the sport has evolved since then

Even someone like Platini who came 20 years later had no where the fitness level of modern footballers.

I could also write a very long essay about how tournaments such as the Euro and World Cup prior to the 90s are ridiculously romanticized and given far too much importance when shaping our opinions of a player's quality because people didn't have an easy way to watch league and cup games

If Griezmann had played in the 80s and done what he's done for France then he'd have a greater legacy than Platini yet we all know Griezmann despite all his quality isn't even the best French player of his era because we actually got to see him play at club level

Now if your argument was that these players are "greater" in the context of their era well that's totally different and I would definitely agree for Platini although that could still change if RM wins the CL and we win the WC in 2012

Lastly hard disagree about Henry's CL campaigns matching up to Benzema's
Benzema carries this Madrid team harder than Henry carried Arsenal. We're talking about having over 50% goal involvement for 2 straight seasons here ...

 

[Flexdegea]

Evra is absolutely right.
Benzema is ahead of Henry in all possible metrics and it isn't even close if you compare their actual CL performances and numbers.
Henry is only rated higher by PL fans and due to having better "aura" as he was the main man for 7 seasons at Arsenal

Benzema scored a hat trick against PSG, a team Lewandowski was anonymous against the last time he's played them mind you. And another one against the defending champions, you trying to downplay the quality of these teams is hilarious considering Madrid weren't favorites according to the bookies against either.

The last memorable performance from Lewandowski in the K.O stage dates back to 2013 (Not saying he hasn't had any other great game, I'm specifically talking about a MEMORABLE world class performance) because scoring a goal in a 8-2 or 3-0 trashing isn't gonna remain in anyone's memory and that's what Lewandowski has been all about in the K.O stage, in 2020 he was not even top 5 players of his team in the Lisbon RO8/4/Final.

Mind you that Benzema actually plays with a team that scores significantly less goals than Bayern, we're talking between 40 to 50 less goals here (and that's in spite of Benzema having higher G+A than Lewandowski this season)


I mean no he's absolutely right if you only look a pure footballing level.
You simply can't compare modern footballers to guys like Kopa or Fontaine. The difference in fitness,technical skill and professionalism has skyrocketed. European football wasn't even the undisputed best stage of competition back when Kopa and Fontaine were playing football mind you with an insanely strong Brazilian league.

An average modern footballer makes the best of the 50s and 60s look like an amateur and that's not me trying to downplay their achievement. That's just got to show how much the sport has evolved since then

Even someone like Platini who came 20 years later had no where the fitness level of modern footballers.

I could also write a very long essay about how tournaments such as the Euro and World Cup prior to the 90s are ridiculously romanticized and given far too much importance when shaping our opinions of a player's quality because people didn't have an easy way to watch league and cup games

If Griezmann had played in the 80s and done what he's done for France then he'd have a greater legacy than Platini yet we all know Griezmann despite all his quality isn't even the best French player of his era because we actually got to see him play at club level

Now if your argument was that these players are "greater" in the context of their era well that's totally different and I would definitely agree for Platini although that could still change if RM wins the CL and we win the WC in 2012

Lastly hard disagree about Henry's CL campaigns matching up to Benzema's
Benzema carries this Madrid team harder than Henry carried Arsenal. We're talking about having over 50% goal involvement for 2 straight seasons here ...

Lot of word Salad here.

To be honest I Wouldn't mind reading the essay you where talking about?



Shocking the underrating of Lewa in this post and others.

 

[Sayros]

Evra is absolutely right.
Benzema is ahead of Henry in all possible metrics and it isn't even close if you compare their actual CL performances and numbers.
Henry is only rated higher by PL fans and due to having better "aura" as he was the main man for 7 seasons at Arsenal

Benzema scored a hat trick against PSG, a team Lewandowski was anonymous against the last time he's played them mind you. And another one against the defending champions, you trying to downplay the quality of these teams is hilarious considering Madrid weren't favorites according to the bookies against either.

The last memorable performance from Lewandowski in the K.O stage dates back to 2013 (Not saying he hasn't had any other great game, I'm specifically talking about a MEMORABLE world class performance) because scoring a goal in a 8-2 or 3-0 trashing isn't gonna remain in anyone's memory and that's what Lewandowski has been all about in the K.O stage, in 2020 he was not even top 5 players of his team in the Lisbon RO8/4/Final.

Mind you that Benzema actually plays with a team that scores significantly less goals than Bayern, we're talking between 40 to 50 less goals here (and that's in spite of Benzema having higher G+A than Lewandowski this season)


I mean no he's absolutely right if you only look a pure footballing level.
You simply can't compare modern footballers to guys like Kopa or Fontaine. The difference in fitness,technical skill and professionalism has skyrocketed. European football wasn't even the undisputed best stage of competition back when Kopa and Fontaine were playing football mind you with an insanely strong Brazilian league.

An average modern footballer makes the best of the 50s and 60s look like an amateur and that's not me trying to downplay their achievement. That's just got to show how much the sport has evolved since then

Even someone like Platini who came 20 years later had no where the fitness level of modern footballers.

I could also write a very long essay about how tournaments such as the Euro and World Cup prior to the 90s are ridiculously romanticized and given far too much importance when shaping our opinions of a player's quality because people didn't have an easy way to watch league and cup games

If Griezmann had played in the 80s and done what he's done for France then he'd have a greater legacy than Platini yet we all know Griezmann despite all his quality isn't even the best French player of his era because we actually got to see him play at club level

Now if your argument was that these players are "greater" in the context of their era well that's totally different and I would definitely agree for Platini although that could still change if RM wins the CL and we win the WC in 2012

Lastly hard disagree about Henry's CL campaigns matching up to Benzema's
Benzema carries this Madrid team harder than Henry carried Arsenal. We're talking about having over 50% goal involvement for 2 straight seasons here ...

Well, of course we are talking in the context of their era. Otherwise it’s completely unfair because of some of the factors you mentioned like sports recovery and training advances to get the best out of players. It's all we can do is compare them within their era, and Benzema falls well short of Platini who stood out among the greatest players, whereas here we are debating if Benzema or Lewandowski is better, 6 months ago half the people were convinced Haaland was better than Benzema already. With Platini, in his era, he was a far more dominant figure among his peers than Benzema has ever been until the last couple of seasons.

Also...your point about Griezmann.....just no, not even remotely close. I think you're massively off on how great Platini was, Griezmann isn't even in his stratosphere as far as what he's done for France in comparison.

Your point about previous international competitions being over romanticized because people couldn't watch league or cup games is kind of a moot point when Platini was dominating both internationally and at club level, in an era filled with world-class players in Serie A and I don't really see what the issue was with watching league or cup games. Yeah they didn't have YouTube, but it wasn't some niche sport or anything, it was still the most popular sport in the world and on TV.

 

[TenonTen]

Evra is absolutely right.
Benzema is ahead of Henry in all possible metrics and it isn't even close if you compare their actual CL performances and numbers.
Henry is only rated higher by PL fans and due to having better "aura" as he was the main man for 7 seasons at Arsenal

Benzema scored a hat trick against PSG, a team Lewandowski was anonymous against the last time he's played them mind you. And another one against the defending champions, you trying to downplay the quality of these teams is hilarious considering Madrid weren't favorites according to the bookies against either.

The last memorable performance from Lewandowski in the K.O stage dates back to 2013 (Not saying he hasn't had any other great game, I'm specifically talking about a MEMORABLE world class performance) because scoring a goal in a 8-2 or 3-0 trashing isn't gonna remain in anyone's memory and that's what Lewandowski has been all about in the K.O stage, in 2020 he was not even top 5 players of his team in the Lisbon RO8/4/Final.

Mind you that Benzema actually plays with a team that scores significantly less goals than Bayern, we're talking between 40 to 50 less goals here (and that's in spite of Benzema having higher G+A than Lewandowski this season)


I mean no he's absolutely right if you only look a pure footballing level.
You simply can't compare modern footballers to guys like Kopa or Fontaine. The difference in fitness,technical skill and professionalism has skyrocketed. European football wasn't even the undisputed best stage of competition back when Kopa and Fontaine were playing football mind you with an insanely strong Brazilian league.

An average modern footballer makes the best of the 50s and 60s look like an amateur and that's not me trying to downplay their achievement. That's just got to show how much the sport has evolved since then

Even someone like Platini who came 20 years later had no where the fitness level of modern footballers.

I could also write a very long essay about how tournaments such as the Euro and World Cup prior to the 90s are ridiculously romanticized and given far too much importance when shaping our opinions of a player's quality because people didn't have an easy way to watch league and cup games

If Griezmann had played in the 80s and done what he's done for France then he'd have a greater legacy than Platini yet we all know Griezmann despite all his quality isn't even the best French player of his era because we actually got to see him play at club level

Now if your argument was that these players are "greater" in the context of their era well that's totally different and I would definitely agree for Platini although that could still change if RM wins the CL and we win the WC in 2012

Lastly hard disagree about Henry's CL campaigns matching up to Benzema's
Benzema carries this Madrid team harder than Henry carried Arsenal. We're talking about having over 50% goal involvement for 2 straight seasons here ...

You're so busy hyping up Benzema that you have totally missed other players' achievements.

For example, Lewandowski had 7 goal contributions in the tie against Chelsea in 2020. He either assisted or scored every single goal of the tie(3 goals 4 assists).

Desperate attempt to discredit other players' achievements while bigging up Benzema.

No matter how many essays you write, you won't be able to erase the fact that Benzema was a laughing stock for years. Guys like Henry and Lewandowski have consistently dominated for years.

Sounds like a fanboy post, not an objective one.

 

[Giggsyking]

Both are amazing. No need to always compare. Just enjoy watching them.

Why would I enjoy watching a player score goals for another team not United? (unless they are scoring against our rivals).

 

[Brwned]

Laughing at the recency bias. Lewandowski has 7 consecutive 40 goals plus seasons now. For reference, only Messi(10), Ronaldo(9) have more.

Benzema yet to do that even once in his life.

So many excuses being made for his laughable seasons. He was just an inconsistent goalscorer in those years. He had 5 league goals in 17/18. Any actual elite player would be lambasted for that.

Ronaldo has assisted Benzema more than vice versa.

Also about the "dependent on service bollocks": everyone is.

For his very underwhelming national team, RL9 has 76 goals and 29 assists. Go and watch what service he gets there.

Reducing Benzema’s contribution to goals and assists is ridiculous, to be fair. Surely you can recognise the role he played in Madrid’s CL titles.

 

[Fortitude]

Stuff..

There is no need for this tone. You'd do well to edit your post.

 

[TenonTen]

There is no need for this tone. You'd do well to edit your post.

Done

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

You're so busy hyping up Benzema that you have totally missed other players' achievements.

For example, Lewandowski had 7 goal contributions in the tie against Chelsea in 2020. He either assisted or scored every single goal of the tie(3 goals 4 assists).

Desperate attempt to discredit other players' achievements while bigging up Benzema.

No matter how many essays you write, you won't be able to erase the fact that Benzema was a laughing stock for years. Guys like Henry and Lewandowski have consistently dominated for years.

Sounds like a fanboy post, not an objective one.

That Chelsea side was a laughing stock under Lampard and no one will remember that 7-1 trashing as a memorable example of a player carrying his team through a CL round.
You're kind of proving my point, you need to go back to RM 2013 to find a memorable Lewandowski game where he wins his team the CL tie.
Lewandowski as great as he is does not carry Bayern Munich in the CL and is arguably not even their best player in the knockout stage in general.

I'll also address your comment about Henry and Benzema being a "laughing stock for years" while Henry "dominated for years" just so that I can expose how this doesn't make any sense given the career performances of both these players. (I definitely agree about Lewandowski being the more consistent player though)

Benzema has MUCH higher G+A/90 than Thierry Henry career wise :
-Thierry Henry : 360 goals, 175 assist in 59.116 minutes, averaging a goal/assist every 110 minutes
-Karim Benzema : 382 goals, 184 assists in 52. 775 minutes, averaging a goal/assist every 93 minutes
Keep in mind that one of these two has 90 G+A in MLS and the gap is still massive.

Benzema in his last two CL games equaled Thierry Henry's CAREER number of goals in the CL k.o stage : 6
And to finish Henry's worst ever season in Europe (2009/10) is worse than Benzema's worst (17/18) both in term of raw numbers and per 90 involvement.

Btw Benzema has higher goal/90 open play ratio than all of Lewandowski,Messi and Ronaldo
Explain to me how a "laughing stock player" can manage that feat?

Well, of course we are talking in the context of their era. Otherwise it’s completely unfair because of some of the factors you mentioned like sports recovery and training advances to get the best out of players. It's all we can do is compare them within their era, and Benzema falls well short of Platini who stood out among the greatest players, whereas here we are debating if Benzema or Lewandowski is better, 6 months ago half the people were convinced Haaland was better than Benzema already. With Platini, in his era, he was a far more dominant figure among his peers than Benzema has ever been until the last couple of seasons.

Also...your point about Griezmann.....just no, not even remotely close. I think you're massively off on how great Platini was, Griezmann isn't even in his stratosphere as far as what he's done for France in comparison.

Your point about previous international competitions being over romanticized because people couldn't watch league or cup games is kind of a moot point when Platini was dominating both internationally and at club level, in an era filled with world-class players in Serie A and I don't really see what the issue was with watching league or cup games. Yeah they didn't have YouTube, but it wasn't some niche sport or anything, it was still the most popular sport in the world and on TV.

Ok then I agree. Platini is definitely ahead no question asked, still iffy about Kopa and Fontaine though, short careers combined with Europe not even necessarely being the best European stage in the world makes it very hard for me to know where they should actually stand in the pecking order.

I do reiterate what I said about Griezmann though.
An Euro where he scores 6 goals + a WC win (with goal involvement in every game from Round of 16 all the way to the final) in the 80s would have made his legacy today 100x greater than what it currently is and perhaps even greater than Platini's.

 

[Acrobat7]

Why would I enjoy watching a player score goals for another team not United? (unless they are scoring against our rivals).

Strange take. You never enjoy watching a non-United game? You can‘t appreciate “art“?
For example I loved watching Messi play and don’t care about Barca.

 

[Fortitude]

Done

Cheers. You probably saved yourself a warning there.

 

[Thelongsleevesofblomqvist]

Benzema has always been better in every facet of the game other than goalscoring

With the numbers he's putting up this year, in a significantly worse team, I don't think there's much debate to be have

its still Real Madrid we are talking about

 

[Drygon]

Reducing Benzema’s contribution to goals and assists is ridiculous, to be fair. Surely you can recognise the role he played in Madrid’s CL titles.

Benzema did play a role in Madrid UCL-titles, although an extremely small one as he wasn't a key contributor.

I can easily mention 8-9 players who were much more important for their UCL-success

 

[Righteous Steps]

Benzema did play a role in Madrid UCL-titles, although an extremely small one as he wasn't a key contributor.

I can easily mention 8-9 players who were much more important for their UCL-success

Yep Modric Ramos Ronaldo even Di Maria Kroos Bale and Pepe at times could be argued to be more important.