Hargreaves isn't in this is he? Think it's Rooney, Ronaldo and ParkAbsolutely all the time in a counter attack.
Imagine Bolt in that scenario. It would be unreal. Especially if he was Hargreaves, he's going to leave everyone in the dust.
Best Dribbler In The World
- Thread starter mancan92
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I think that for example if you look at the gif of Ronaldo's goal versus Arsenal then think how badly Bolt leaves the 9 other fastest people in the world in the dust just how badly he'd destroy football players.
Absolutely all the time in a counter attack.
Imagine Bolt in that scenario. It would be unreal. Especially if he was Hargreaves, he's going to leave everyone in the dust.
It seems like an eternity away the time where we could play football at such pace. *sigh*
Yeah you're right, not the best quality gif looks like Hargreaves's hair.
Absolutely all the time in a counter attack.
Imagine Bolt in that scenario. It would be unreal.
1. At which point in the video does Ronaldo dribble? The argument was about dribbling and running, nothing to do with completely off-the-ball runs.
2. Ronaldo still scores and is quicker than his opponent. That's my point. Ronaldo is that quick that the difference in pace between him and Bolt will for the most part be of no relevance.
3. I put "how often in football when a player is dribbling does their pace over 50m or so come into play?". Notice they key word 'dribbling'. You have responded with a video of a player making an off-the-ball run which is completely irrelevant.
But doesn't it also prove my point? You don't need to be as fast as Bolt, as Ronaldo shows in that gif. If you're as fast as Ronaldo or Bale then you will be fast enough to get up the pitch and get a goalscoring opportunity. Obviously being even faster would be even better, but would it actually be of much benefit? How many times can you remember seeing Bale or Ronaldo sprinting up the pitch and then losing out because they weren't quick enough?
Why does Bolt have to be Ronaldo and not Park?
What Messi did to Scholes in that gif, Iniesta has done dozens of times. Even in the single video you have posted (of a single game) he uses both feet in several of his moves. Just skip to the second half, there are at least two excellent examples of what I am saying. In one part of the game, when Iniesta finds himself on the right, he uses his left foot for his first touch. I can post any number of youtube clips where Iniesta uses both feet for his moves in countless dribbles/moves/passes. It was also a few weeks ago that he scored a cracking goal against Real Madrid with his left foot. None of Silva/Messi/Robben/insert name of good technical dribbler would consider utilizing their weak foot for a powerful shot from a relatively wide and distant position. Most dribblers tend to heavily favour one foot and sometimes look awkward as result. The reason why Iniesta is so aesthetically pleasing to watch (and effective at the same time with his control and dribbling) is precisely his dexterity with both feet. Nobody else in world football has the same effortless ability on the ball as Iniesta does. Now, I am not saying that Iniesta is the God of football, his game has several weaknesses in other areas, especially shooting/finishing and he does indeed tend to overplay sometimes, or goes for too intricate moves/combinations sometimes that end in nothing. I am only saying that in the very narrow sense of close control, and close control-dribbling he is the undisputed master. In that respect, and that respect only.
Messi.
I understand what BobbyManc is saying really.
Give Bolt and Ronaldo a 20/30 metre race without a football. Bolt wins by the slightest margin. (it's only 20/30 metres after all)
How often does any player have the space to sprint even 20/30 metres with the ball at full speed at the highest level? Very rarely.
Bolt's marginal speed advantage really doesn't make much difference.
The shorter the distance - the less difference between Bolt and Ronaldo.
Now if football pitches were twice the size....
Give Bolt and Ronaldo a 20/30 metre race without a football. Bolt wins by the slightest margin. (it's only 20/30 metres after all)
How often does any player have the space to sprint even 20/30 metres with the ball at full speed at the highest level? Very rarely.
Bolt's marginal speed advantage really doesn't make much difference.
The shorter the distance - the less difference between Bolt and Ronaldo.
Now if football pitches were twice the size....
I don't see what you are trying to argue. You initially claimed Bolt would "rinse" any footballer. I claimed his pace, concerning dribbling, would for the most part not make him any more effective than Ronaldo and Bale already are.
Place Bolt on a football pitch and he will be damn right useless. I don't get what his name is doing on this thread.
Iniesta is a better close dribbler than Silva. Also I think your under selling Iniesta in his comparison with Silva @malpapper. For me he is comfortably the better player than Silva.
I don't think there's such a thing as being too quick or such a thing as diminishing returns on pace, all it means is there's even more scenarios where you're first to the ball or reach balls and passes no one else could or are able to get away from defenders others couldn't.
Say for example the ball breaks on the counter on the right, then the defenders on the other flank and the centre are going to move across to stop you. The faster you are the less chance there is of them making up the ground. The 4th Germany goal vs England where Ozil does Barry for pace and squares it to Muller is a good example of this. Give Bolt any kind of space at all to stretch his legs and he's gone versus any other player in world football. Pace keeps being extremely good the faster and faster you are. You don't hit a sweet spot where you've got the most you can out of it.
Someone like Bolt would be unmarkable imo, because no amount of covering or doubling up would ever matter so long as there was space to run into which there is all the time in football games. Most defenders could have a 10 yards head start and he'll still out pace them.
I do not disagree, but since this thread is about the best dribblers in world football in different situations, and since my argument is that Iniesta is the best in tight-space dribbling, I prefer to limit the discussion in that area. I still think that Silva is better than Iniesta in some departments though. I enjoy watching both players immensely (I am a brains-over-brawn type any day of the week) but I was just intrigued by how anyone could compare Silva to Iniesta in this particular area under discussion.
Messi, obviously. At everything.
Ive never seen this goal from Robben absolutely ridiculous.
I imagine Bartra can still run 100m in under 13 seconds, there's no way Bale can do it in under 10, maybe not even under 11. Small things often make a huge difference on a football field.
For one you are completely going off-topic with your argument. Mentioning Bolt was off-topic anyway but now you are not even referring to his pace in the context of dribbling. Secondly, you are severely overestimating the effect of his pace. To say he would be unmarkable is just gross hyperbole.
So Ronaldo's a fair bit slower than some random sprinter even over really short distances. The guy was white too so he's at least half a second if not more slower than Bolt over 100m.
We were talking about the kind of 'dribbling' Bale did against Barcelona in the Copa Del Rey final, so yeah pace is by far the dominant part of that.
Watch this @Blashphemy. This is a perfect example of why Bolt's pace wouldn't be as effective as you make out. It involves much more than simply sprint speed. Ronaldo is faster than the average player, Demichellis slower than the average. So this could just be an example of Bolt against an average paced defender.
Nope, you were talking about that. I was talking about the distance involved in most dribbling which is 20m maximum, if that. It's normally short bursts of 5-10m.
while I agree in principle I don't think that's a good example. The last touch is uncharacteristically poor from Ronaldo and gives Demichelis much more of a chance of getting the ball than he should have had.
What the hell is this? Demichellis has a 15 yards head start and is between the ball and the goal. Yeah in this situation Bolt's pace would not be anymore useful than Ronaldo's. In this situation Ronaldo's pace was far less useful than Messi's skill would have been. Are you suggesting Ronaldo's pace isn't useful either, just because it isn't in this one random clip you've posted?
But in countless other situations it would be extremely useful.
Why is this thread still going?
Shouldn't it have simply ended after the first reply?
Shouldn't it have simply ended after the first reply?
The key is that a football pitch obviously isn't endless.
And would Bolt, doing that same sprint, even have the space to clock up a higher speed and slow down as effectively?
It's a terrible example.
The video was solely to demonstrate how pace alone is not useful. It requires timing and Ronaldo mistimed his burst. I'm arguing Ronaldo's pace is as useful as Bolt's would be on a football field. When a player dribbles the distance involved is not sufficient for Bolt's superior sprint speed to come into play as Ronaldo and those as quick as him will still beat their opponent. It is only in off-the-ball runs where Bolt's pace will matter (e.g. Bale's sprint against Bartra) but that isn't what you initially argued.
I'd say that something like this:
where the dribbler has the 70 metres to sprint into, Bolt's added pace would be useful. Definitely.
Something at around 20-30 metres, when before you've even got going you need to slow down - Not so much.
Bale's goal isn't really an example of dribbling either.
Please clarify this question I have for you.
Do you think that any sprinter in the world could be effective for a football club in any professional league in the world? Let alone EPL, etc...
I argued that there's loads of occasions during a football match where a player is able to sprint for 20-30m+ and during these situations (with the ball or otherwise) Bolt's pace would be notably better than Ronaldo's. Or to put it more simply if Ronaldo could run 100m in 9.59 seconds he'd score notably more goals a season and generally be noticeably more effective on a football field across a season than he is now. There would be a big advantage to having that extra pace.
I think there's quite a few players around at high level football now who are League 1 or lower players with pace and as such they're playing at Premiership clubs (or at least have done in the past) and those guys have nothing like the pace of a real elite olympic sprinter.
Obviously if a 100m sprinter was absolutely useless with the ball then he'd still struggle.
But say give Usain Bolt standard Conference winger level ball skills and I think he could play Premier league football.
What?!
Its a great goal but its mainly his speed that got him the goal. Messi is still the master of cutting in from the right and scoring.
I see the point you are trying to make, and I agree. But the fact still remains, that no matter how fast you may be, you still need some elementary football skills, which sprinters simply do not possess. In that walcott run, the Arsenal player, shows at least some minimal footballing ability. Sprinters do not have that, and hence, irrespective of how faster they can be than Ronaldo/Bale/Robben/Theo they would still be utterly useless. For your pace to matter one iota on a football pitch, you need some elementary skills at the very least.
Have you ever watched Conference football? A lot of them really aren't that bad with the ball.
And my guess is that Bolt in all probability does not remotely possess Conference level technique. Otherwise, all of them sprinters (who are as you rightly pointed out way faster than Bale/Ronaldo/Robben) would turn to pro football which is if anything, far and away more lucrative than Olympic sprinting.
"He dribbles a lot and the opposition doesn't like it. In fact you can see it all over their faces"
Unfortunately that was said about a basketball player
Unfortunately that was said about a basketball player