Best Dribbler In The World

Messi and I don't think its close.

He doesn't have the tricks of someone like Ronaldinho but his combination of agility, acceleration and ball control is on another level to anything I've ever seen. He's so mobile and has such a great touch that he can just skip past players. I think only pre-injury Ronaldo could dribble as quickly as Messi with a similar level of ball control, and even then I don't think he quite had the agility to change direction like Messi does.
 
Theon said:
Messi and I don't think its close.

He doesn't have the tricks of someone like Ronaldinho but his combination of agility, acceleration and ball control is on another level to anything I've ever seen. He's so mobile and has such a great touch that he can just skip past players. I think only pre-injury Ronaldo could dribble as quickly as Messi with a similar level of ball control, and even then I don't think he quite had the agility to change direction like Messi does.
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Fat-Ronaldo (before he became really fat) had tremendous speed and very good technique in his dribbling, but not Messi's agility, close control or change of direction.
 
Theon said:
Messi and I don't think its close.

He doesn't have the tricks of someone like Ronaldinho but his combination of agility, acceleration and ball control is on another level to anything I've ever seen. He's so mobile and has such a great touch that he can just skip past players. I think only pre-injury Ronaldo could dribble as quickly as Messi with a similar level of ball control, and even then I don't think he quite had the agility to change direction like Messi does.
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There is one who, were he alive and playing today would top them all - George Best.
 
Blasphemy said:
That's absolute rubbish.

I used to play with Cameron Jerome at youth level and the guy was a nothing player in terms of ability, not even particularly stand out in terms of even regular under 14's level where we played but he had pace/power and strength and now he's played Premier League football for years. Premier League players aren't all at some absolute elite level mere mortals can't touch, physique goes a long, long way in many cases.
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You make a fair point right there. But still, even Cameron Jerome boasts some minimal football skills in terms of passing, vision, control and awareness. I think it's safe to assume, that some people, presumably elite athletes in one-dimensional sports, don't even have what Jerome has, and therefore could not be top-tier footballers despite their remarkable physical attributes. To return to our beloved Usain Bolt :D, I think that he would be utter shite on a football pitch even at Championship level. I mean, burst out laughingly shockingly bad.
 
Close Quarter Possession: Verratti, then Iniesta, then Silva (honorable mention arda turan)
Close Quarter Explosive: Messi, Robben, Ben Arfa
Sprinters: Lucas Moura, Kovacic, Bale/Lennon.

Overall best dribbler: still messi.
 
JaffyJoe said:
I agree.

I would give Messi overall dribbling and explosive dribbling?

What is sprint dribbling??
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Nice to hear that!

Sprint dribbling is what Christiano, Bale, Robben, Walcott and Lennon can do when given space. Namely, make a certain move with the ball, even just kick it slightly forward, and then burn the defender with raw pace. That is the only way I can understand it at least.
 
Malva said:
Close Quarter Possession: Verratti, then Iniesta, then Silva (honorable mention arda turan)
Close Quarter Explosive: Messi, Robben, Ben Arfa
Sprinters: Lucas Moura, Kovacic, Bale/Lennon.

Overall best dribbler: still messi.
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If only I could see what you are seeing in Verratti and Kovacic. And by the way, how many 90mns games has Kovacic played for Inter?
 
malappapper said:
If only I could see what you are seeing in Verratti and Kovacic. And by the way, how many 90mns games has Kovacic played for Inter?
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if someone had asked the same of a barca fan last season about thiago he'd be similarly struggling. he's played enough for nt and club (last season at 18) for anyone who's watched him consistently to know he's the real deal. playing under a rubbish manager is never an indication of player quality. dennis bergkamp, andrea pirlo, have all been let go before their primes from inter. it seems kovacic is destined for that path now.

i can post or send to you probably more then a dozen clear examples of superb 'sprint dribbling' from kovacic for you if you need. it is literally extremely easy to see how proficient he is at this ability. you'd have to have seen zero of him to even question how good he is at that regard.
 
Malva said:
if someone had asked the same of a barca fan last season about thiago he'd be similarly struggling. he's played enough for nt and club (last season at 18) for anyone who's watched him consistently to know he's the real deal. playing under a rubbish manager is never an indication of player quality. dennis bergkamp, andrea pirlo, have all been let go before their primes from inter. it seems kovacic is destined for that path now.

i can post or send to you probably more then a dozen clear examples of superb 'sprint dribbling' from kovacic for you if you need. it is literally extremely easy to see how proficient he is at this ability. you'd have to have seen zero of him to even question how good he is at that regard.
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When did I say that Thiago was amongst the best in the world in his position? Whenever he played for Barcelona he always flattered to deceive. I know that virtually all Barca supporters on internet forums such as this one have been hyping him to the heavens for some time now, but I was never a fan. To be fair though, the few times I have seen him with bayern, he was quite good I must admit, but I am still of the opinion that he will never, ever be Xavi good if that makes sense. As for Kovacic, I have not seen him a lot, but what I have seen so far, cannot justify the degree to which you seem to hype him. Lots of youngsters look awesome with junior national sides. Canales looked epic with Spain's U-19, Lukaku, and Kakuta also. Did they live up to early promise? I think not. I know that Lukaku has scored a few good goals in the Prem this season, but has he played at a level to justify the Drogba comparisons? No way as of yet, and I think that will never ever happen. Many youngsters seem promising playing for junior teams, but the vast majority of them never fully justify the early hype. Bojan is another example that just came into my mind and made me :lol:


So, let's wait for these players to hatch first and the begin comparing them with star players that have proven themselves a hundred times over...
 
malappapper said:
When did I say that Thiago was amongst the best in the world in his position? Whenever he played for Barcelona he always flattered to deceive. I know that virtually all Barca supporters on internet forums such as this one have been hyping him to the heavens for some time now, but I was never a fan. To be fair though, the few times I have seen him with bayern, he was quite good I must admit, but I am still of the opinion that he will never, ever be Xavi good if that makes sense. As for Kovacic, I have not seen him a lot, but what I have seen so far, cannot justify the degree to which you seem to hype him. Lots of youngsters look awesome with junior national sides. Canales looked epic with Spain's U-19, Lukaku, and Kakuta also. Did they live up to early promise? I think not. I know that Lukaku has scored a few good goals in the Prem this season, but has he played at a level to justify the Drogba comparisons? No way as of yet, and I think that will never ever happen. Many youngsters seem promising playing for junior teams, but the vast majority of them never fully justify the early hype. Bojan is another example that just came into my mind and made me :lol:


So, let's wait for these players to hatch first and the begin comparing them with star players that have proven themselves a hundred times over...
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who said anything about the junior national team? i'm talking about kovacic's appearance with the senior national team, on occaisons where he's out performed all of his midfielders, rakitic, modric and co.
 
Malva said:
who said anything about the junior national team? i'm talking about kovacic's appearance with the senior national team, on occaisons where he's out performed all of his midfielders, rakitic, modric and co.
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All in all, he has 8 apps for the Croatian senior team, and only in 2 of those games he has played the full 90 minutes, against Scotland and Serbia. Yet you place him as one of the top dribblers on the planet, while at the same time not mentioning 2-time Balon winner Ronaldo (a player unfortunate enough to reach his prime at the same time as a certain Lionel Messi) Ronaldo has been a mega star for a mighty United team, a mighty Real Madrid team, amazing for his national side, his list of accolades and jaw-dropping achievements endless, and yet you claim that Kovacic is better at sprint dribbling than him. I am sorry, but your claims do not compute. In this instance at least.
 
malappapper said:
All in all, he has 8 apps for the Croatian senior team, and only in 2 of those games he has played the full 90 minutes, against Scotland and Serbia. Yet you place him as one of the top dribblers on the planet, while at the same time not mentioning 2-time Balon winner Ronaldo (a player unfortunate enough to reach his prime at the same time as a certain Lionel Messi) Ronaldo has been a mega star for a mighty United team, a mighty Real Madrid team, amazing for his national side, his list of accolades and jaw-dropping achievements endless, and yet you claim that Kovacic is better at sprint dribbling than him. I am sorry, but your claims do not compute. In this instance at least.
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using achievements to bolster traits? makes sense. i guess lampard is a better dribbler then kovacic too considering his hundreds of caps for chelsea and dozens for england, not to mention all of his goals.

enough of this nonsense talk. it's ridiculous. just watch something so you have something to legitimately talk about, not this crap about awards, caps, star status.





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you want to ask me a ridiculous question like, how many games has he started this season? well he did all of this just last season in half of a season as a starter.


he was statistically the most effective dribbler in all of europe last season as an 18 year old playing for a new club, most effective in success rate of dribbles, and number of dribbles per game, and the ratio.

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Manucho the boss said:
Paddy McCourt probably, but seriously it's messi. Suarez is one of the best I've seen inside the box.
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paddy mccourt.. what a genius. probably still one of the top dribblers in the world, especially regarding just level of control. such a shame the way his career has went.
 
Aye, the ball seems to stick to his feet. That's why he can never bloody get it out of his feet to make the shot or pass
 
Malva said:
using achievements to bolster traits? makes sense. i guess lampard is a better dribbler then kovacic too considering his hundreds of caps for chelsea and dozens for england, not to mention all of his goals.

enough of this nonsense talk. it's ridiculous. just watch something so you have something to legitimately talk about, not this crap about awards, caps, star status.





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you want to ask me a ridiculous question like, how many games has he started this season? well he did all of this just last season in half of a season as a starter.


he was statistically the most effective dribbler in all of europe last season as an 18 year old playing for a new club, most effective in success rate of dribbles, and number of dribbles per game, and the ratio.

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Ronaldo is a player known for his pace, and defenders all around Europe go weak in the knees at facing him one on one, let alone having to take him on in a contest over pace and acceleration. Kovacic has not even appeared on the map yet. Statistics in football are a very poor gauge of evaluating players, this is not baseball where everything can be measured accurately. For Kovacic to have even the slightest claim amongst the big names of football, he will have to consistently prove himself at the highest level, not some random statistic from whoscored.com The methodology of such statistics can also be quite problematic.
 
You mention players like Moura, Kovacic, Turan, Silva, Verratti, Lennon and Bale, yet you don't do the same with a certain Neymar. And since we are in the business of youtube highlights, you might want to have a look at this clip, from half a Neymar season in his first year in European football with the team that tends to be facing the tightest defences in world football, game in, game out (along with Bayern) Notice how Neymar faces far closer marking at higher areas of the pitch compared to Kovacic whose few dribbling runs always start from deep when pressure from the opposition tends to be extremely lower than what Messi/Iniesta and in this case Neymar Jr are facing. In that clip you see Neymar demonstrating pace, along with a rich array of trickery and control. How can you be mentioning Bale, Verratti, Kovacic and Lennon and not Neymar and Christiano is inexplicable in my eyes. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Kovacic is not a fantastic prospect, all I am saying is that there are others in world football who have been proving themselves for many years now, yet you choose to list the names of players who have either just commenced playing professional football, or are of relatively low quality.





Edit: My point in asking how many games he has even started for Inter is to demonstrate that this kid Kovacic, who looks highly promising I must say, has barely started playing top level football. Don't worry mate, we will hae plenty of time to evaluate him in the future.
 
Effective Dribbling - Messi
Beautiful Dribbling - Iniesta
Entertaining Dribbling - Ronaldinho

Dribbing that makes you wank -
At the end of that Giggs dribble, seamen was on the floor. Seaman-semen pun intended.
 
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kouroux said:
I mean come on, wtf ?
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no i'm not going to come along with you and share your view. i think you're frankly ignorant if you think these are naive selections.

this is my view, want examples to support it?

verratti:


close control over the ball in tight spaces was the description, and in that regards i firmly believe noone is better then verratti at this moment at those abilities matching that description.


lennon:

what, have you not been paying attention when we played tottenham last season? he tore us a new one along with bale just with his pure speed on the ball.

Lennon is a quality winger because he's amazingly quick, not just without the ball, but ESPECIALLY with it. He is a little slower then bale considering top speed, but much more explosive, and i believe he keeps more speed on the ball then bale does, making him as good if not better a sprint dribbler.

seriously i don't understand what you find ridiculous. want an example of his speed? here:


2:45

There are tonnes and tonnes of examples, and he gave us several examples against us last year alone.
his dribbling control isn't other worldly, but give him a lane to accelerate into, and he's going to dart right by you in a whiff. As a sprinter dribbler he's one of the best. Nothing wrong with that imo. I'm not saying he's one of the best wingers in the planet, or one of the best dribblers period, it's pertinent specifically to and no more then the description "sprint dribbling".
 
Malva said:
no i'm not going to come along with you and share your view. i think you're frankly ignorant if you think these are naive selections.

this is my view, want examples to support it?

verratti:


close control over the ball in tight spaces was the description, and in that regards i firmly believe noone is better then verratti at this moment at those abilities matching that description.


lennon:

what, have you not been paying attention when we played tottenham last season? he tore us a new one along with bale just with his pure speed on the ball.

Lennon is a quality winger because he's amazingly quick, not just without the ball, but ESPECIALLY with it. He is a little slower then bale considering top speed, but much more explosive, and i believe he keeps more speed on the ball then bale does, making him as good if not better a sprint dribbler.

seriously i don't understand what you find ridiculous. want an example of his speed? here:


2:45

There are tonnes and tonnes of examples, and he gave us several examples against us last year alone.
his dribbling control isn't other worldly, but give him a lane to accelerate into, and he's going to dart right by you in a whiff. As a sprinter dribbler he's one of the best. Nothing wrong with that imo. I'm not saying he's one of the best wingers in the planet, or one of the best dribblers period, it's pertinent specifically to and no more then the description "sprint dribbling".
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I never meant you should share my opinion, just expressed my surprise at yours. You have your right to have yours and I have the right to not agree with it too. I've almost watched all of Verratti matches since he arrived at PSG, he's a cracking talent and has big cojones when it comes to getting himself out of tight situations but having done that regularly in the Ligue 1 will never make me think he's one of the best in the world.
Don't take it too seriously when people disagree with you, just an advice I'm throwing out there.
 
That Verratti clip contains very few actual dribbles. Most of it is passes, flicks, backheels and attempts at evading pressure from markers in pointless positions with relatively limited success. The claim in the end should have read instead: Verratti, Italian talent: a bit of Pirlo's vision, a bit of Xavi's passing, and a fraction of Iniesta's skills.
 
kouroux said:
I never meant you should share my opinion, just expressed my surprise at yours. You have your right to have yours and I have the right to not agree with it too. I've almost watched all of Verratti matches since he arrived at PSG, he's a cracking talent and has big cojones when it comes to getting himself out of tight situations but having done that regularly in the Ligue 1 will never make me think he's one of the best in the world.
Don't take it too seriously when people disagree with you, just an advice I'm throwing out there.
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well i'm serious but never offended. i just want to know why it's an opinion that warrants surprise, that itself surprises me.
 
Malva said:
well i'm serious but never offended. i just want to know why it's an opinion that warrants surprise, that itself surprises me.
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Like I said he's just done it in France and has never showed the same quality in the CL against decent/good opposition, these are enough reasons for me to be patient when it comes to labeling any aspect of his game as the best in the world. I rate him really highly so will see how he develops.
About Lennon, I'll admit that I'm really biased and it is surely clouding my judgment of him. I hate him as a player, I hate how fecking short and annoying he is when walking. There are players who one has a irrational hatred for, mine is Lennon.
 
kouroux said:
I mean come on, wtf ?
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I don't think mentioning Verratti in terms of static, "close-control possession" merits a "wtf" response. He's got a very low centre-of-gravity and has a miniscule step. He's not fast, he doesn't have the explosiveness of someone like Messi for example but his control and manipulation of the ball is just amazing.

Verratti has a really high dribbling success rate with 81% -- for example: Iniesta has 61%, Modric has 67% -- and his style is fantastic. It reminds me of Zidane a bit in how he likes to shield the ball in tight spaces, keeping the ball to wait for an opportunity or to get the foul.

The best dribbler in the world is obviously Messi, but I prefer the way Verratti holds the ball when he gets pressed in tight spaces. Iniesta and co. are quicker than Verratti and that's what makes them more complete than Verratti who's a specialist like JRR, Pirlo, Valderrama, etc.
 
Pippa said:
I don't think mentioning Verratti in terms of static, "close-control possession" merits a "wtf" response. He's got a very low centre-of-gravity and has a miniscule step. He's not fast, he doesn't have the explosiveness of someone like Messi for example but his control and manipulation of the ball is just amazing.

Verratti has a really high dribbling success rate with 81% -- for example: Iniesta has 61%, Modric has 67% -- and his style is fantastic. It reminds me of Zidane a bit in how he likes to shield the ball in tight spaces, keeping the ball to wait for an opportunity or to get the foul.

The best dribbler in the world is obviously Messi, but I prefer the way Verratti holds the ball when he gets pressed in tight spaces. Iniesta and co. are quicker than Verratti and that's what makes them more complete than Verratti who's a specialist like JRR, Pirlo, Valderrama, etc.
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It is when you consider he's only done that in the Ligue 1 so far and against average teams in the CL. He's a great talent and he has every of becoming one of the best CMs in the world but right now everything he does gets a little over praised.
 
Well yeah, he plays in a one-sided league but it's more physical than others. I don't think it's fair to deny the talent he has or the ability he shows on a consistent basis just because he hasn't had the chances to do it regularly in the Champions League.
 
Pippa said:
I don't think mentioning Verratti in terms of static, "close-control possession" merits a "wtf" response. He's got a very low centre-of-gravity and has a miniscule step. He's not fast, he doesn't have the explosiveness of someone like Messi for example but his control and manipulation of the ball is just amazing.

Verratti has a really high dribbling success rate with 81% -- for example: Iniesta has 61%, Modric has 67% -- and his style is fantastic. It reminds me of Zidane a bit in how he likes to shield the ball in tight spaces, keeping the ball to wait for an opportunity or to get the foul.

The best dribbler in the world is obviously Messi, but I prefer the way Verratti holds the ball when he gets pressed in tight spaces. Iniesta and co. are quicker than Verratti and that's what makes them more complete than Verratti who's a specialist like JRR, Pirlo, Valderrama, etc.
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Interesting. If I may ask what's your source for those stats?
 
Skorenzy said:
Interesting. If I may ask what's your source for those stats?
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Iniesta for example: Iniesta

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Where it says Champions League, you change it to La Liga to see his La Liga statistics. Go to total duels won and then you'll see the take-on statistic.

They define a "take-on" as an attempted dribble past an opponent. So basically dribbling success.

Other pages: Verratti, Modric

It obviously shouldn't be used as the only factor when comparing how good dribblers are but it is good to use as a reference point IMO.
 
Pippa said:
Iniesta for example: Iniesta

26cd5a251355d2af6324ac6f6974dc60.png


Where it says Champions League, you change it to La Liga to see his La Liga statistics. Go to total duels won and then you'll see the take-on statistic.

They define a "take-on" as an attempted dribble past an opponent. So basically dribbling success.

Other pages: Verratti, Modric

It obviously shouldn't be used as the only factor when comparing how good dribblers are but it is good to use as a reference point IMO.
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Ah squawka, that's what I figured. Thanks.

Yeah either way it's a complex issue, because how do you go about accounting for the differences in their respective positions/roles on the field and the quality of the "take-ons" etc. I'd also add that most people probably haven't seen too much of Verratti and certainly not in Ligue 1, so that complicates it even further.
 
Skorenzy said:
Ah squawka, that's what I figured. Thanks.

Yeah either way it's a complex issue, because how do you go about accounting for the differences in their respective positions/roles on the field and the quality of the "take-ons" etc. I'd also add that most people probably haven't seen too much of Verratti and certainly not in Ligue 1, so that complicates it even further.
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I cross-checked their "take-on" number with what happened in an actual match -- it was a match where Isco had like 11 completed dribbles -- and it is basically getting past the defender, regardless of quality or movement. So if the player went past the defender by a couple of steps just using a burst of speed, it was equal to a player leaving a defender five yards behind him using skill.

I did keep the positional argument in mind, hence why I didn't bother comparing to Messi or Hazard, or any of the other names listed. Verratti and Modric both play a supporting role in a 4-3-3, Iniesta has more freedom in his movements. I don't know about most people ITT but I watch every PSG game, I'm one of the three or four people here who post regularly in the Ligue 1 thread.
 
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