Berbatov

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marcus agrippa said:
you simply can't write off a player after one game in a new league, and that the first one.

plenty of players have struggled their first few games, sometimes even their first season. look at Evra, to name a recent example.

once they know what this league is about, they will be able to kick on. i can't say Modric will do that, but to write him off is foolish.
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I'm not writing him off, he just has alot of work to do to get used to the pace of the league.

Time will tell if he's good enough.
 
Brwned said:
I'm still a big fan of Saha, but I wouldn't think that he has justified his transfer fee over the course of the 4(?) years he's been with us.

I did say at a stretch though.
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Yeah, but it's not entirely SAF's fault that he hasn't. He has been injured, and some would claim SAF should have seen that coming given his past injury record, but if you look at his fee, £12.8m, you won't buy half the striker for that price nowadays(That means you, Robbie Keane). A constantly fit Saha is a £25m player IMHO. We likely wouldn't be buying Berbatov either.
 
marcus agrippa said:
no offence, but what exactly do you understand by 'almost never wrong'?

given SAF's longevity, that's he's made so few mistakes in that department rather makes Pogue's point.
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I wasn't replying to that part of it, I was replying to the 'The closest a striker that SAF signed has ever come to being a flop (Forlan)' bit.
 
brophs said:
Yeah, but it's not entirely SAF's fault that he hasn't. He has been injured, and some would claim SAF should have seen that coming given his past injury record, but if you look at his fee, £12.8m, you won't buy half the striker for that price nowadays(That means you, Robbie Keane). A constantly fit Saha is a £25m player IMHO. We likely wouldn't be buying Berbatov either.
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Saha's finishing was too poor at the best of times for a club to pay that amount for him.
 
Ekeke said:
Saha's finishing was too poor at the best of times for a club to pay that amount for him.
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Have to agree to disagree, he looked the best striker in the league at times last year, he did everything you want from your forwards.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Saha was superb for us. When fit.

Dong and Bellion were punts on kids, not players he was signing to play for the first-team straight away.

Besides, even Bellion, for all his sins, has developed into a decent player. One of the highest scorers in France last season, IIRC.
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Well 20 goals in 50 Ligue 1 starts isn't bad, given the fact that it's not a particularly high-scoring league. But he still isn't United quality and probably never will be, same goes for Dong.

brophs said:
Yeah, but it's not entirely SAF's fault that he hasn't. He has been injured, and some would claim SAF should have seen that coming given his past injury record, but if you look at his fee, £12.8m, you won't buy half the striker for that price nowadays(That means you, Robbie Keane). A constantly fit Saha is a £25m player IMHO. We likely wouldn't be buying Berbatov either.
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I don't know if any of the blame can be put on SAF, seeing as his injury record wasn't bad before he came to us. Which is why I said at a stretch.

If he was constantly fit though, yeah I probably would pay £20m for him.
 
Is it true that SAF was watching the Blackburn's game?
 
Ekeke said:
Saha's finishing was too poor at the best of times for a club to pay that amount for him.
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I by "that amount", you mean 12 million quid, you're wrong. Even taking his injury record into account, Saha has turned out to be a bargain.

He was one of the most important players when we won the league the season before last. For the same amount of money as Dirk Kuyt.
 
brophs said:
Have to agree to disagree, he looked the best striker in the league at times last year, he did everything you want from your forwards.
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Not so much last season, but the season before. He was brilliant in the first half of 2006/7. Played a massive part in us winning the league.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I by "that amount", you mean 12 million quid, you're talking out your arse. Even taking his injury record into account, Saha has turned out to be a bargain.

He was one of the most important players when we won the league the season before last. For the same amount of money as Dirk Kuyt.
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I think he means £25m, which Brophs valued him at.
 
Brwned said:
I don't know if any of the blame can be put on SAF, seeing as his injury record wasn't bad before he came to us. Which is why I said at a stretch.

If he was constantly fit though, yeah I probably would pay £20m for him.
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Not to undermine my own argument, but his injury record was quite poor before joining us. The year before he joined, when he had a purple patch with Fulham, was his first injury free season in a few years. It did look like he had turned the corner though.:nervous:
 
charleysurf said:
Not so much last season, but the season before. He was brilliant in the first half of 2006/7. Played a massive part in us winning the league.
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Sorry, yeah, I keep talking as if this season hasn't started yet. I meant 06/07.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I by "that amount", you mean 12 million quid, you're wrong. Even taking his injury record into account, Saha has turned out to be a bargain.

He was one of the most important players when we won the league the season before last. For the same amount of money as Dirk Kuyt.
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The guy I quoted said he was a £25 million player if he didnt have his injuries.
 
brophs said:
Have to agree to disagree, he looked the best striker in the league at times last year, he did everything you want from your forwards.
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He looked good and for the first 7-10 games he was level pegging with Drogba in terms of goals, but he was still missing sitters and one on ones. There's no reason to suggest he should have been valued at £25 million rather than £18 million or so.

Course, Drogba was playing up front alone. Something Saha wasnt.
 
Ekeke said:
He looked good and for the first 7-10 games he was level pegging with Drogba in terms of goals, but he was still missing sitters and one on ones. There's no reason to suggest he should have been valued at £25 million rather than £18 million or so.
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Well, firstly, no footballer is worth £25m. But in relative terms to market values...

If Robbie Keane is £20m, Arshavin £20m, Robinho £25m odd, Adebayor £25m odd if reports are to believed, Anelka £16 odd, Jo £20m, then, yeah, I'd have Saha for £25-if fully fit. But that's not going to happen, is it?
 
brophs said:
Well, firstly, no footballer is worth £25m. But in relative terms to market values...

If Robbie Keane is £20m, Arshavin £20m, Robinho £25m odd, Adebayor £25m odd if reports are to believed, Anelka £16 odd, Jo £20m, then, yeah, I'd have Saha for £25-if fully fit. But that's not going to happen, is it?
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Ah, you mean now - not at the time?

Yes, if he was the same player we had in the first half of the season (same form, age, etc) we'd get more for him than Robbie Keane at this point in time.

Back then, we certainly wouldnt have.
 
Ekeke said:
Ah, you mean now - not at the time?

Yes, if he was the same player we had in the first half of the season (same form, age, etc) we'd get more for him than Robbie Keane at this point in time.

Back then, we certainly wouldnt have.
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Well, to be honest, I wasn't making a distinction. I suppose what I was getting at is I would prefer a fully fit Saha to all of the players I mentioned, so if that's what they're worth.......But you're right, it's probably more realistic to pitch that figure now, rather than back then, when fees were slightly more restrained.
 
brophs said:
Well, to be honest, I wasn't making a distinction. I suppose what I was getting at is I would prefer a fully fit Saha to all of the players I mentioned, so if that's what they're worth.......But you're right, it's probably more realistic to pitch that figure now, rather than back then, when fees were slightly more restrained.
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I'd rather have a fully fit Saha with a less frustrating finish (if we could somehow manage that) than most of the players we've been linked too, yeah. Would much prefer a mobile striker like him. A clinical one would be an insane partner for Rooney and Tevez.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'm genuinely amazed at the amount of people who are in a thread called "Berbatov" but keep mentioning alternative targets and/or criticising the one player Fergie wants to sign and who will almost certainly end up playing for United within a fortnight.

Some simple facts for you.

SAF has identified Berbatov as the player we need.

SAF is almost never wrong when it comes to signing strikers. He's an ex-striker himself and this shows in his transfer dealings. His record in signing top strikers is second to none. The closest a striker that SAF signed has ever come to being a flop (Forlan) went on to top score in La Liga, the following season.

If SAF wants Berbatov, then he is exactly the player we need. Not Villa, not Pavyluchenko, not Santa fecking Cruz.

We are also far too far down the road in this saga to suddenly change our target. That has never happened before and it won't now. When SAF identifies a target, the only way he ever gives up is if another club gazumps us.

I know that debate is healthy but the sooner you gimps wake up, smell the coffee and take these facts on board the better.
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Pogue your on a roll mate. Good post!
 
brophs said:
Not to undermine my own argument, but his injury record was quite poor before joining us. The year before he joined, when he had a purple patch with Fulham, was his first injury free season in a few years. It did look like he had turned the corner though.:nervous:
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Really? Someone posted his injury record here a few weeks ago and it said he only really had 3 major injuries while at Metz and Fulham. After that, he had a good 15 or so.
 
Brwned said:
Really? Someone posted his injury record here a few weeks ago and it said he only really had 3 major injuries while at Metz and Fulham. After that, he had a good 15 or so.
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Ah, I stand corrected so. My memory is/was that he never had an uniterrupted season, or anything like it. Maybe the old noggin is playing tricks on me.
 
brophs said:
Ah, I stand corrected so. My memory is/was that he never had an uniterrupted season, or anything like it. Maybe the old noggin is playing tricks on me.
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Well it didn't include any minor injuries so it's more than likely he kept getting muscle injuries throughout his career. If so, SAF should take some blame for it.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Some simple facts for you.

SAF has identified Berbatov as the player we need.


If SAF wants Berbatov, then he is exactly the player we need. Not Villa, not Pavyluchenko, not Santa fecking Cruz.

We are also far too far down the road in this saga to suddenly change our target. That has never happened before and it won't now. When SAF identifies a target, the only way he ever gives up is if another club gazumps us.

I know that debate is healthy but the sooner you gimps wake up, smell the coffee and take these facts on board the better.
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I doubt very much if that's right. It's so obvious that the squad needs an experienced, quality striker that there is no way Ferguson would let Spurs drag the Berbatov debate out this close to deadline day without having an alternative ready and waiting.

You're of course right in pointing out SAF's exemplary record in the transfer market. He's also shown great pragmatism, and is not averse to bringing in stop-gap players to do a job for him in the short-term, whilst sharing their experience with his younger players. That is why Henry is a credible alternative, and a valid discussion. Henry would, in many ways, be a classic Fergie signing.

Berbatov would be the dream player, the last piece towards making the perfect team. But I'm sure Fergie would be ready to pounce on alternatives like Santa Cruz or Henry - less desirable maybe, but options that would work out. I really doubt Fergie would risk going into this season without signing someone.
 
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