I hope this happens. We should never turn down real quality when it becomes available.
Benjamin Pavard
- Thread starter UnitedSofa
- Start date
Yup, quality and top tier competition winning experience.
Regardless of his intentions, if he wants to come it’s because Ten Hag has convinced him of it. It’s a big upgrade in quality for our defence overall, and let’s face it, Varane can’t play every game. Add cover for Casemiro and this will be a solid window for us.
Fee will be similar, as Nice is a smaller club than Bayern and would need the money more. I think Pavard around 30m and Todibo 35m. However, Pavard will demand much higher wages.
I think the key is more that Pavard can occupy 2 positions.
Why don’t let go of Lindelof as well and get both? That will make up for not getting Kim.
With Lindelof being 29, that would make sense. I do not think that Pavard is an upgrade on Lindelof (or at best, a marginal upgrade) but he is 2 years younger so if we get him for what we sell Lindelof, that would be good business.
We definitely need a young CB though. Only Lisandro is in the young side.
Pavard is miles better than Lindelof. It’s not even a contest.
He is not. It is the typical the grass being greener in the other side.
If he was as good as people are saying, Bayern wouldn’t be signing an expensive CB pretty much every summer (Upamecano, De Ligt, Kim), with him mostly playing as RB (and even there Bayern tried to upgrade with Cancelo).
He is the typical ok defender who can do a job but does not shine at anything and has some weaknesses. Like Lindelof, or Maguire.
Or two things happens at the same time. First Pavard has been a better RB than any player they brought and most players that may be on the market. And Bayern purchased CBs because they had to replace Alaba, Boateng, Hummels, Sule and Hernandez during the last 4 years.
He could be used as an inverted right back where he'll be in central areas a lot anyway. He's too good and established to be a backup on the bench.
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Yeah, and Lindelof is a similar height and he's not great in the air...
Late reply but yeah.
For his own level. He's just not good enough for a team that wants to win the highest honours.
Again us United fans rating our players massively.
What had Lindelof and Maguire done in their careers to be compared with Pavard?
.Major titles he has won, with his contribution being very visible.
Bayern Munich
Bundesliga: 2019–20, 2020–21, 2021–22, 2022–23
DFB-Pokal: 2019–20
DFL-Supercup: 2020, 2021, 2022
UEFA Champions League: 2019–20
UEFA Super Cup: 2020
FIFA Club World Cup: 2020
France
FIFA World Cup: 2018, runner-up: 2022
UEFA Nations League: 2020–21
But somehow Lindelof and Maguire are in the same level.
From a City fan page.
Again us United fans rating our players massively.
What had Lindelof and Maguire done in their careers to be compared with Pavard?
Major titles he has won, with his contribution being very visible.
Bayern Munich
Bundesliga: 2019–20, 2020–21, 2021–22, 2022–23
DFB-Pokal: 2019–20
DFL-Supercup: 2020, 2021, 2022
UEFA Champions League: 2019–20
UEFA Super Cup: 2020
FIFA Club World Cup: 2020
France
FIFA World Cup: 2018, runner-up: 2022
UEFA Nations League: 2020–21
But somehow Lindelof and Maguire are in the same level.
From a City fan page.
He did it in Schtokburg, but can he do it in a cold Tuesday at Stoke ?
How much of Pavard have you actually watched?
Bayern sign CBs cause plays mostly right back for them? Also have you seen their turnover at CB in recent years?
Pavard is a no brainer for the cut price fee he'd command. A development CB can be signed next summer, we need starting caliber players this window, this is how you team build. Get experienced players in first and future plan once we are a title challenging team.
He is a ball player. Sign as many of them as possible.
It depends on what ETH intends to do for me there is three scenarios:
- ETH wants a versatile player that can start at RB and cover one of the CB spot. In that case Pavard is by far the best option if it suits him.
- ETH wants a three man starting rotation at CB, in that case I would lean toward someone like Todibo but it's only if ETH genuinely intends to consider that he has three starters.
- ETH wants a backup with starter potential that he intends to phase in. In that case I would go for a younger-greener CB that hasn't been mentioned yet.
We would still need a backup CB then
Not really, the points of having versatile players is to not double all positions but in our case the positions would be doubled anyway and regarding CBs they would be tripled.
RB: Pavard, Dalot, AWB
CB: Varane, Martinez, Lindelof, Evans, Pavard, Shaw
LB: Shaw, Malacia
He'll cover centre back when Varane is rested.
23 games at centre back for Bayern last season and 20 at right back.
I would expect him being put at RB for tactical flexibility and in certain cases, and mostly rotating at CB otherwise ?
And it's just one injury away of him being an obvious automatic starter at CB.
How good is he in a back 3 ?
There's at least 6 Euro games in the schedule, hopefully 8-10 and who knows a little more...
With 5 subs now there's a lot of room to reshape the team mid-match.
By virtue of having only one specialist CF, I expect the team will be fluid up top (especially with all the different flavours of wingers), so possibly at the back too.
At the quoted price he's the most obvious bang for buck choice.
And it's just one injury away of him being an obvious automatic starter at CB.
How good is he in a back 3 ?
There's at least 6 Euro games in the schedule, hopefully 8-10 and who knows a little more...
With 5 subs now there's a lot of room to reshape the team mid-match.
By virtue of having only one specialist CF, I expect the team will be fluid up top (especially with all the different flavours of wingers), so possibly at the back too.
At the quoted price he's the most obvious bang for buck choice.
Yep. We have about 3 players in the back end of the field who are good enough on the ball in the buildup. We need way more.
He didn't refuse to play there, that's true and that would be very unprofessional of him so I might be too harsh but that media story that he asked to leave Bayern because he doesn't want to play right back also, if true, wouldn't be the most professional thing to do IMO.
The point is, I very much doubt that there is any truth in that and if we sign him he would be playing games at RB for sure, especially if you consider how top managers use that position today and that he will spend a considerable amount of time actually playing central.
It is just a malicious media interpretation of his quote about his preferred position to make up a story about him not renewing contract and wanting to leave because he doesn't want to play at RB position anymore.
You think he would be behind Evans at CB? If so, I don't see the point.
He told Bayern that he would extend his contract which is not unprofessional or has anything to do with professionalism. Footballers are entitled to not extend their contract, now that situation means that if Bayern want a fee out of the player they will have to sell him or take the risk to see him leave as a free agent.
And there is zero doubts that he told Bayern that he prefers the CB position, simply because the same is true for France and has been known for a long time. For France he doesn't have a choice but at club level he has the freedom to choose his next club and agree on a role that he wants.
Tobido would be my preference, a better athlete with a higher ceiling IMO.
Why would I think that? The lists aren't ordered.
Lindelof is much much worse on the ball and in term of physical and ariel challenges I'd say pretty the same. In a way both are RB playing CB but one is basically shit on the ball while the other is class.
Okay. Thanks.
Sorry mate, I understand your point but I just don't see/feel it that way. For me, not playing a preferred position is not a good enough reason to ask to leave the club, especially in the case of Pavard when you are already proven at that position at the probably highest level possible, France and Bayern.
I'm not saying by any means that players don't have the right to choose whether they will renew their contract or leave. I just want to separate two things: professionalism and player's individual preferences. You play where your staff decides you to play and where your team needs you the most in order to bring your fans joy - that is what professionals should do. In which other job can you choose what you want to do and what you don't want to do ? You do what you are asked to do in order to be the most efficient on a collective basis.
I just feel they are paid a considerable amount of money to cry about which position they should play and they have a lot more power over the clubs that it should be and in this particular case possibly Bayern had to choose rather to sell Pavard than to lose him on free.
Ps. As I probably took this discussion too far away, don't get me wrong, I would love to have Pavard here - just see his situation as media exaggerating things and I don't think he is that kind of player/personality at all. ETH would surely love to play him as inverted right back at least in some games and I would like to see him there too.
As far as I know he didn't ask to leave, he told the club that he won't extend his contract which again can never be considered unprofessional. Because the alternative is that a professional player should only extend his contract regardless of his personal ambition. Pavard has always played where his coached asked him to play and everyone knows what his favored role is.
You seem to think that being professional means that you have no personal ambition or desire, that you have no agency and can't decide how you want your career to develop and where you want to work which is extremely wrong from a literal or moral standpoint.
I would imagine the main reason he's not extending is that he did everything there was to do at Bayern ?
Starts tonight for Bayern in the super cup. Will be watching that one I think. Why’s he want to leave if he’s first team choice?
It has already been mentioned, it's supposed to be a combination of wanting a new challenge and playing in his favored position more often.
Lindelof is not shit on the ball, he is actually decent on it. Pavard is obviously better at that though, but he is not Lisandro at that aspect. Pavard is probably slightly worse in the air, which will be a problem in EPL especially if paired with Lisandro who is ever worse, or Lindelof who is average at that. Pavard is also quite slow which makes a problem if paired with Lisandro.
Essentially he is a good third/fourth choice but not starting material as CB. He is probably better than what we have in RB but he offers nothing forward, so we have AWB who can offer whatever he offers.
In any case, I think it is a good signing if the wage and fee is reasonable. He offer good depth in multiple positions but he is not a Varane replacement, now or in the future.
I’d rather Diomande over Todibo and Pavard. But all three would improve us.
No thanks. 7 players for 4 positions is madness.
Would be a very shrewd signing