Bebe | 2010/11 Performances

Status
Not open for further replies.
After watching him several times in the first team and in the reserves, I have to say the initial impressions of him is that....well he's crap. 7.5m for someone that isn't really an improvement on Cleverly. In fact when we dig in the academy we can easily find better potentials and players that come for free.

I'm sure it's way too early to write the lad off, but 7.5m for him and 8m for VDV...value...feck me.

I mean he misses the basics, he looks like a clumsy player to say at least. Sure he is in a new country, the positional sense and final product can be improved and learned, but he can't control a football, his crosses are well, there's the video against Wolves right there.


I can see him getting loaned and then sold.
 
He won't go anywhere on loan any time soon. Which club would want him?

Fergie himself said he's a long-term project. It is strange he's getting games when he still looks as raw as he does but we're seriously short of options on our flanks and he's obviously doing enough in training to be given his chance. As he just discovered to his cost, though, there's a world of difference between training games and first-team football.

For all his ineptitude, 6 months is far too early to write off any new signing, never mind one with his unusual background. Playing in front of a big crowd must be a whole new experience for him and has to be at least partly responsible for his rabbit in the headlights performance.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He won't go anywhere on loan any time soon. Which club would want him?

Fergie himself said he's a long-term project. It is strange he's getting games when he still looks as raw as he does but we're seriously short of options on our flanks and he's obviously doing enough in training to be given his chance. As he just discovered to his cost, though, there's a world of difference between training games and first-team football.

For all his ineptitude, 6 months is far too early to write off any new signing, never mind one with his unusual background. Playing in front of a big crowd must be a whole new experience for him and has to be at least partly responsible for his rabbit in the headlights performance.
Click to expand...
Well said.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He won't go anywhere on loan any time soon. Which club would want him?

Fergie himself said he's a long-term project. It is strange he's getting games when he still looks as raw as he does but we're seriously short of options on our flanks and he's obviously doing enough in training to be given his chance. As he just discovered to his cost, though, there's a world of difference between training games and first-team football.

For all his ineptitude, 6 months is far too early to write off any new signing, never mind one with his unusual background. Playing in front of a big crowd must be a whole new experience for him and has to be at least partly responsible for his rabbit in the headlights performance.
Click to expand...

I can see first division sides being interested in him. He's a 7m rated winger with experience with Portugal U21 after all. If he does well at that level then he can move to a small EPL side (similar to what we did with Foster).
 
Our Manager is a man with principle´s and our club have good moral and standing on a solid ground.

We don´t buy a boy with Bébés backgrund and then sell him after one season. There are more value´s on line then cash in this case. I´m sure there are things around this deal we don´t know about. To much money for a unknown player, regardless of hype and future potential. We will sooner or later sell him, a decent transfer for all parties. But it will not be this summer.
 
devilish said:
I can see first division sides being interested in him. He's a 7m rated winger with experience with Portugal U21 after all. If he does well at that level then he can move to a small EPL side (similar to what we did with Foster).
Click to expand...

He'll need to play a hell of a lot better than he did yesterday and I don't see many more opportunities to convince between now and the end of the season.

I'd be amazed if he went on loan as early as next season. The season after, at the earliest.
 
Why does everyone think they know what Fergie is thinking. This guy is ruthless he didn't become successful being soft. He tells kids to get on their bike every year senior players too. Bebe was crap yesterday and it didn't go unoticed to Fergie, whether you think he needs more time that fine but don't try justify it with because you think thats what Fergie is thinking because he will have no problem in selling him this year or the next if he feels he's not up to it.

I think Obertan is talents a feck but unfortunatley i think his time might be short lived too.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He'll need to play a hell of a lot better than he did yesterday and I don't see many more opportunities to convince between now and the end of the season.

I'd be amazed if he went on loan as early as next season. The season after, at the earliest.
Click to expand...

He'll be 22 by then . What would be the point of loaning him out after two seasons?

If he is to come good he needs playing time and not in the reserves.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He won't go anywhere on loan any time soon. Which club would want him?

Fergie himself said he's a long-term project. It is strange he's getting games when he still looks as raw as he does but we're seriously short of options on our flanks and he's obviously doing enough in training to be given his chance. As he just discovered to his cost, though, there's a world of difference between training games and first-team football.

For all his ineptitude, 6 months is far too early to write off any new signing, never mind one with his unusual background. Playing in front of a big crowd must be a whole new experience for him and has to be at least partly responsible for his rabbit in the headlights performance.
Click to expand...

Fair enough Pogue.
But 7 feckin millions for someone so unproven. That is just crazy money for someone like him.
 
he's shit. to make it at the club will take a f'n miracle. if the money being talked about is right f me , him on a free he'd still be most probably the worst player I've seen at the club , that includes el ka dong!

no value in the market - well he represents that and vdv well he'd look better in red than this lump.

and to say he needs to play to have a chance - well so would I but I'm not good enough either.
 
To be fair he would probably not get into that Crawley side yesterday so I don't how he would fit in at a Championship side. Maybe some mid-table League One side would take him, or a League Two side. Alternatively we could send him to some average league like Poland, Cyprus but then again from what I have seen so far he wouldn't make it at any of better Polish teams anyway.
 
we've seen in flashes some explosive pace and strength from Bebe - i think it can be easy for a young player to let their head get down when they've made a few mistakes

i think bebe has always been a long term project so he deserves patience
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Since when is 22 too old to send a player on loan?

It's top class coaching he needs, as much as playing time.
Click to expand...

I fail to recall the last player we loaned at 22 and then came back to play for us.

I barely see him fitting in the reserves as we have better options there as well.

If he badly needs a coaching why the hell we spend 7.5m for a raw product like that? You don't spend that kind of money to learn him control a football.

He was atrocious yesterday and against Wolves. Much alike William Prunier against Spurs..
 
I say we judge his potential when we see him in the first team from the start. Him on right and Nani on the left, and the other first teamers are in the team including scholesy.
 
Tom Cleverley is 21 now, will be 22 next season and is expected to come back and get a squad number.

I don't see why a year makes all that big a difference, especially when you consider that Cleverley's had almost his entire football education with United, while Bebe was playing park football just over a year ago.
 
buckooo1978 said:
we've seen in flashes some explosive pace and strength from Bebe - i think it can be easy for a young player to let their head get down when they've made a few mistakes

i think bebe has always been a long term project so he deserves patience
Click to expand...

one of his problems is having his head down. and forget long term project. long term if he improves a lot would still make him meh. i hope that he becomes a good enough player to make a living and sets an example for those that have a similar back ground but ffs lets be realistic this in MUFC not burnley.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Tom Cleverley is 21 now, will be 22 next season and is expected to come back and get a squad number.

I don't see why a year makes all that big a difference, especially when you consider that Cleverley's had almost his entire football education with United, while Bebe was playing park football just over a year ago.
Click to expand...

Cleverly went on loan when he was 19 and is regular starter for a Premiership side at 21. He's far ahead in his development compared to Bebe.

Welbeck is 20 and regular for a Premiership side at 20. Send on loan at 19 to Preston.

Macheda is 19 - end on loan at 19 to Sampdoria.

We sold Pique and Rossi for the same amount we bought Bebe (with all the training and experience they had) because they wanted to play not loaned out. Yet we buy unproven player for huge amount of money to loan him at 22. It doesn't make sense..
 
I was very disappointed with both Bebe and Obertan yesterday.

I know they're both young n' learnin, I think they both have fantastic potential and I dont really care about the size of their transfer fees. But against opposition of that level, at home, and at the stage they should be in their development for their age, they should at least be capable of showing something . The fact is neither really managed to produce anything, Obertan in particular had more unforced errors than anything else, and were well marshalled by the Crawley players they were up against.

I've been quiet and remained hopeful on both of them, even seen flashes of what they could potentially become but neither showed anything for me yesterday, either in terms of skill, attitude or hunger, to suggest that they will make it at Utd.

I hope I'm wrong btw, they have plenty in their locker to be good players.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Cleverly went on loan when he was 19 and is regular starter for a Premiership side at 21. He's far ahead in his development compared to Bebe.

Welbeck is 20 and regular for a Premiership side at 20. Send on loan at 19 to Preston.

Macheda is 19 - end on loan at 19 to Sampdoria.

We sold Pique and Rossi for the same amount we bought Bebe (with all the training and experience they had) because they wanted to play not loaned out. Yet we buy unproven player for huge amount of money to loan him at 22. It doesn't make sense..
Click to expand...

Pretty much spot on. His talent is way too raw to have taken a chance on him. We turned down bloody Henry at 17 because he was too raw!!! What was our scouts thinking i don't know.
 
All the Crawley players have a good engine in them....should Utd buy them for like £7m too?
 
Quite often on the Caf, players are ridiculously written off, and a few years later (a few months or even games in some cases!) the thread is bumped, and we all laugh at the mug who got it so badly wrong. Nothing wrong there, its good fun, hell I've been on the wrong end of it with Fletcher

I think this will be the opposite though. Someone will bump this one, and we'll all laugh at those who couldn't see what was right in front of them; that is a player without the talent to perform at this level, and without the potential to ever do so
 
scholesy legend said:
I say we judge his potential when we see him in the first team from the start. Him on right and Nani on the left, and the other first teamers are in the team including scholesy.
Click to expand...

Thats a fair point.

At the same time, given the opposition they faced I would have expected them to rise to the occasion and show some of what they can do in front of a full house at OT.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Cleverly went on loan when he was 19 and is regular starter for a Premiership side at 21. He's far ahead in his development compared to Bebe.

Welbeck is 20 and regular for a Premiership side at 20. Send on loan at 19 to Preston.

Macheda is 19 - end on loan at 19 to Sampdoria.

We sold Pique and Rossi for the same amount we bought Bebe (with all the training and experience they had) because they wanted to play not loaned out. Yet we buy unproven player for huge amount of money to loan him at 22. It doesn't make sense..
Click to expand...

Well, exactly. That's kind of my point.

The fact remains that - despite him being a much more developed player than Bebe - Cleverley won't be coming back to United from a spell out on loan until he's 22. Which supports the possibility that Bebe might go out on loan from the age of 22-23.

The loan thing is all a bit moot anyway. His game needs a whole lot of work before he's good enough to get loaned out anywhere.
 
B Cantona said:
Quite often on the Caf, players are ridiculously written off, and a few years later (a few months or even games in some cases!) the thread is bumped, and we all laugh at the mug who got it so badly wrong. Nothing wrong there, its good fun, hell I've been on the wrong end of it with Fletcher

I think this will be the opposite though. Someone will bump this one, and we'll all laugh at those who couldn't see what was right in front of them; that is a player without the talent to perform at this level, and without the potential to ever do so
Click to expand...

tbh, the players you bump threads for....like Nani, Anderson etc, you at least have like the sensible people saying stuff like "once they finally get a run, that skill they've shown plenty of glimpses of will come consistently", and shock horror, both getting real runs in the past two seasons and that has happened.

whereas Obertan, Gibson, Bebe.....yes you can throw them in with the likes of Bellion, Djemba, Diouf, Tosic, Dong. It's not exactly the fans reaction to them that makes me think this, but HOW the club themselves use them, the writing is on the wall for these guys. Ok maybe not Gibson as he's a legit homegrown guy, but I feel he's going to be like Chadwick/Richardson, pushed because of near-desperation to want another homegrown player but simply not good enough.
 
scholesy legend said:
I say we judge his potential when we see him in the first team from the start. Him on right and Nani on the left, and the other first teamers are in the team including scholesy.
Click to expand...

He might not have started against Wolves, but he only missed the first few minutes coming on for Hargreaves. And he was horrid, especially his crossing as has been much discussed
 
B Cantona said:
Quite often on the Caf, players are ridiculously written off, and a few years later (a few months or even games in some cases!) the thread is bumped, and we all laugh at the mug who got it so badly wrong. Nothing wrong there, its good fun, hell I've been on the wrong end of it with Fletcher

I think this will be the opposite though. Someone will bump this one, and we'll all laugh at those who couldn't see what was right in front of them; that is a player without the talent to perform at this level, and without the potential to ever do so
Click to expand...

Written off players... Fletcher, Nani, Ronaldo, maybe the Anderson thread come next year. These are the extreme's of very talented players who have all had good developement that for some reason or another had little faults in there game that made us think they couldn't make it. It's a far cry from Bebe mate a blind man could see that they guy doesn't even have a championship first touch.

I might come across like i'm drilling the guy but i honestly think we were wrong in bringing him to the club like how I feel when Chelsea ruin careers of good players. He's development would have been better playing in portugual learning his trade and improving in competitive games, not getting thrown in the deep end at one of the biggest clubs in the world when he's truely not ready.
 
B Cantona said:
I think this will be the opposite though. Someone will bump this one, and we'll all laugh at those who couldn't see what was right in front of them; that is a player without the talent to perform at this level, and without the potential to ever do so
Click to expand...
You'd laugh at someone who was trying to support players wearing the shirt? K.
 
RK said:
You'd laugh at someone who was trying to support players wearing the shirt? K.
Click to expand...

Oh do feck off. We're all behind the lad during the game wearing the shirt, and I dare say the majority would love to have humble pie stuffed down our throats. But this aint during the game, and we speak as we find. I support the club, not individual players, and if a player isn't in the greater interests of the club, I will say so. I think we're wasting our time with a player who isn't and won't be good enough
 
Bebe clearly need alot of work. He's looked well out of his depth whenever he has started for the first team this season.

Reading the comments of Fergie and other members of the first team, he's clearly a striker and also a massive physical specimen. His shooting has been described as explosive. I'm pinning my hopes that Fergie and the coaching staff have seen the potential in him to turn him into a good forward player because of these traits.

He's a purchase who is always going to be questioned because of his background and the nature of how he was acquired. His limited outings for the first team are doing very little to quell those questions either. His crossing has been absolutely shocking at times.

We still have not seen enough of him, nor has he been at the club long enough to be written off, although I think everyone has to concede the signs are abit Dong and Manucho like and are not good. I still don't think United would sign a player without doing their research mind you and that you just have to class him as a long-term project.

I don't see the point in United using him in the first team squad though any more times this season. He's just nowhere near good enough.
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
Bebe clearly need alot of work. He's looked well out of his depth whenever he has started for the first team this season.

Reading the comments of Fergie and other members of the first team, he's clearly a striker and also a massive physical specimen. His shooting has been described as explosive. I'm pinning my hopes that Fergie and the coaching staff have seen the potential in him to turn him into a good forward player because of these traits.

He's a purchase who is always going to be questioned because of his background and the nature of how he was acquired. His limited outings for the first team are doing very little to quell those questions either. His crossing has been absolutely shocking at times.

We still have not seen enough of him, nor has he been at the club long enough to be written off, although I think everyone has to concede the signs are abit Dong and Manucho like and are not good. I still don't think United would sign a player without doing their research mind you and that you just have to class him as a long-term project.

I don't see the point in United using him in the first team squad though any more times this season. He's just nowhere near good enough.
Click to expand...

If he's a striker does he have more potential than William Keane and King?
 
B Cantona said:
Oh do feck off. We're all behind the lad during the game wearing the shirt, and I dare say the majority would love to have humble pie stuffed down our throats. But this aint during the game, and we speak as we find. I support the club, not individual players, and if a player isn't in the greater interests of the club, I will say so. I think we're wasting our time with a player who isn't and won't be good enough
Click to expand...
Got no problem with your opinion of Bebe. Spreading it doesn't calm the vitriol towards him and won't help his confidence but there's nought I can really do about that.

Potentially laughing at the opinion of supporters supporting him (and thereby the manager) I think is pretty low, especially in this case.

I don't understand why know-nothing fans (I include myself in this, nobody here is in touch with the team like the staff) think they have to be so pragmatic about selection issues.
 
Mainoldo said:
If he's a striker does he have more potential than William Keane and King?
Click to expand...

The thing is no one can really answer that, other than Fergie and the coaching staff, as all of those players are very early into their careers. Even if he does not have more potential than King or Keane, it will not matter, as they will rise above him, such is the nature of competition for places.

United's priority with young strikers should be Welbeck and Macheda who I think are very close to being ready to be a proper part of our first team squad next season so all of those players have their work cut out for them anyway.

THe others mentioned are still very much being developed and it's impossible to say if anyone of them will have a long term future with United. I think both Welbeck and Macheda will have a future with us if they are patient.
 
Zen said:
tbh, the players you bump threads for....like Nani, Anderson etc, you at least have like the sensible people saying stuff like "once they finally get a run, that skill they've shown plenty of glimpses of will come consistently", and shock horror, both getting real runs in the past two seasons and that has happened.

whereas Obertan, Gibson, Bebe.....yes you can throw them in with the likes of Bellion, Djemba, Diouf, Tosic, Dong. It's not exactly the fans reaction to them that makes me think this, but HOW the club themselves use them, the writing is on the wall for these guys. Ok maybe not Gibson as he's a legit homegrown guy, but I feel he's going to be like Chadwick/Richardson, pushed because of near-desperation to want another homegrown player but simply not good enough.
Click to expand...

I honestly think Bellion, Djemba, Chadwick and Richardson were much better players than Bebe.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.