His performances are worse than Bellion, Prunier, Taibi and the likes have put in United shirt.
Bebe | 2010/11 Performances
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His performances are worse than Bellion, Prunier, Taibi and the likes have put in United shirt.
You asked for time to be afforded to Bebe.
Ask the many owners, managers and fans demanding results if they have or willing to be patient.
My post was melodramatic? Maybe it was silly of me to plead with you, I forget that on forums people never change their minds, even slightly.
Maybe your last point could be right, but to write him off completely is ridiculous.
Maybe Bebe needs a couple of 'crap' performances where he is thrown in at the deep end. Then you take him out of the action for an extended period of time, you train him, then when it comes to performing again he has learnt from the previous experience and it gives him a foundation to build on. Alright this might not be what you'd expect for £7m but that's in the past.
As far as I'm aware you're not a professional sports coach or psychologist, so I'm placing my trust is elsewhere.
How many times have you seen him play? I would quite like to know the minimum amount of minutes it takes before I can write a player off for good.
Well I know you're still in favour of developing youth, so when's your cut off?
3 years? 1 year? Half a season? 2 or 3 first team starts?
Show me a post where I have written him off completely?
If you're going to place your trust elsewhere then sharing a platform with us is wasting your time mate.
when in the process of a massive bond issuance, you want to tidy up your books and present the healthiest balance sheet you possibly can, esp showing a good bit of cash on hand. The fact that we pulled out of the 10 million quid deal for ljajic (which would've decreased our cash on the balance sheet prior to bond issuance), makes perfect sense, given the timing. Without the glazer millstone arround our neck, no massive bond or other financial chicanery would be present and fergie could've done the deal as he saw fit.
I and many other refuse to believe it is because the lad wasn't good enough when clearly he is better than a number of players we have on our books.
There's a small matter of United having paid £7 Million, and a contract to honour. They can hardly write off that amount without giving it a go...
couple of times in the reserves and all 7 games for the first team. I've seen Dong play less.
Not completely writing him off, but it would take a miracle to be successful at this level. I've seen players with much more talent at United that didn't make it, even at very young age..
Well, you've convinced me.
True. They have a far better knowledge and understanding of a player's mentality, his work ethic, his current ability, his training and overall development progress, his weaknesses and his strengths, his performance stats..on and off field....and his potential.
That's why they'll keep hold of players that the rest of us might sell or buy players that we would never consider.
You jumped in at a point where I was criticising Brad for potentially laughing at people defending Bebe. This is because he's seemingly written off Bebe completely (I obviously disagree but don't have a real problem with an opinion). It's not really a logic jump to infer that you agree with him.
I don't understand this at all.
He'll need to improve that's for sure. On the other hand if we could find a championship side for Foster (exactly after signing him) then we can do the same with Bebe
Stat time: In the first team, Bebe scores a goal once every 130 minutes, or one every game and a half.
In the reserves, Bebe has 3 goals in 5 games.
In the reserves, Bebe has 3 goals in 5 games.
There's truth in this to a point; ultimately the name of the game, and the area they're judged (in fact the entire reason they're paid a wage) is performance in the first team. And we all see that just as the club staff do. There are examples where the supporters have got a judgement right long before a player has actually left the club, as much as there are the other way around
Of all the players to flog this line about RD, are you sure you want to choose Bebe as your example, when the manager admitted to never seeing him play prior to signing? Really?
With youth, you need patience, lots of 'em. Anyway, Bebe will never be used as a first teamers that needed to be good in important games. We are slowly bringing him into that.
I quote your post.
RK said:
As far as I am aware there are no professional football coaches on this forum. Why are you wasting your precious time debating if our opinions are of no significance?
Great!
Let's drop Rooney, Berbatov, and Chico.
I wonder why the professional coaches never thought of something so obvious.
I act as a powerful and efficient medium between the professionals of the game and the everyday numpties. I try to explain the complex choices of the knowledgeable in the verbatim of the intellectual-paupers that reside on this forum.
But seriously. It's not that your opinions are of no significance, just that if I have to choose who to side with on selection issues it's going to be the people that work with the players day in day out. I'm still interested in what other fans think, and I respect your opinion (as long as you're not laughing at others for theirs).
Besides, I only came here to photoshop John Terry
I act as a powerful and efficient medium between the professionals of the game and the everyday numpties. I try to explain the complex choices of the knowledgeable in the verbatim of the intellectual-paupers that reside on this forum.
But seriously. It's not that your opinions are of no significance, just that if I have to choose who to side with on selection issues it's going to be the people that work with the players day in day out. I'm still interested in what other fans think, and I respect your opinion (as long as you're not laughing at others for theirs).
Besides, I only came here to photoshop John Terry
xxx
Of all the players we have at the moment this is the one I have the strongest positive gut feeling about. I realise it's not in any way an objective assessment but it's never let me down to date (there's always a first time of course). If we take our time and persist with this lad I don't think we'll be sorry.
Yep. For those who said its probably worth waiting past 7 games before calling him a complete flop.
I know there are no professional coaches on this forum but in football, 'professional' does not form a trend with intelligence. Most managers or coaches are lucky because they had the talent of being a professional footballer. Most are not intelligent and I think many intelligent football fans working in non football jobs would do a much better job than most of them. For example Sammy Lee, zero intelligence, but he is classed as a professional football coach.
I can see this thread getting bumped in a few years time, the reason why i'm unsure of yet.
Personally i think he looks a better bet than Obertan at this point in time. His crossing has already come on a hell of a lot and he played some good through balls, his touch isn't the car crash some people are making it out to be (granted yesterday it wasn't at it's best).
I'm going to give him a hell of a lot longer than 7 months after what must have been a huge shock to his system and change in his life.
Personally i think he looks a better bet than Obertan at this point in time. His crossing has already come on a hell of a lot and he played some good through balls, his touch isn't the car crash some people are making it out to be (granted yesterday it wasn't at it's best).
I'm going to give him a hell of a lot longer than 7 months after what must have been a huge shock to his system and change in his life.
I don't need to convince you. I just can't see what Bebe has over the likes of Macheda,Welbeck,Cleverly, or even Morrison or King and James or why we bought him at the first place.
What makes you think he has a chance of making it? It's not like we have bought players who played couple of matches for the first team and then got loaned and sold - Dong, Manucho, etc...
There's a difference between Bebe and Dong/Manucho, i think Bebe has played more games than both of those guys combined already. That shows that the coaches see more in him than in either of those guys.
If he'll become a solid squad player for us, never mind a class player, that will be the greatest progress of a player I've ever seen.
I think that's fair, he clearly isn't ready for this stage right now, I reckon his heads all over the place, as well as confidence. Definitely going to need more time.
I don't understand this line of argument.
I can bet he probably said the same thing about Miller, Bellion, Djemba-Djemba, Richardson etc....
We just can't cherry-pick the hits and forget the misses.
As for Bebe, I'm still puzzled that we paid so much for what was essentially a massive punt. On the back of SAF not seeing the lad play as well. There's been something dodgy about this whole affair from the jump.
We'll always have this.........
For me we should be playing him as a Striker/forward and he should be spending more time holding up the ball and laying it off with his strength. he actually look like he might have a fair few goals in him if played correctly.
Give him time, people, give him time. Far too early to criticise the young lad - he's still finding his feet, moved to a different country, he needs time to adapt.
He had a bad game. But people are writing him off too early.
1. No pre-season / getting used to the English game. They always said he'd take time.
2. He's not a winger. he's always played as a striker and scored shitloads of goals.
Everyone that I've heard speak says he's a striker. He's certainly not a natural winger. His finishing is amazing - apparently.
3. This guy's scored in every single debut he's every played in and if I rightly recall - if memory serves me right didn't he score in European competition this season?
4. He was also applauded when he joined up with the Portugal Under 21-s.
Look there's enough talent there - and players sometimes go through dips in form before they move up to the next level.
Give him time.
Tx
1. No pre-season / getting used to the English game. They always said he'd take time.
2. He's not a winger. he's always played as a striker and scored shitloads of goals.
Everyone that I've heard speak says he's a striker. He's certainly not a natural winger. His finishing is amazing - apparently.
3. This guy's scored in every single debut he's every played in and if I rightly recall - if memory serves me right didn't he score in European competition this season?
4. He was also applauded when he joined up with the Portugal Under 21-s.
Look there's enough talent there - and players sometimes go through dips in form before they move up to the next level.
Give him time.
Tx
And the same can be said of the reverse.
I haven't seen anyone saying that he WILL make it here, only people withholding judgement and people giving up. Citing the likes of Fletcher, Nani and co is meant to show that players can and have progressed exceptionally in a reasonably short period of time. That's it. Not saying Bebe will, but he might.
The lines of argument that say "he can hardly kick a ball, not good enough for Crawley Town" are as ridiculous as anything I've read on here.
No you can't but every hit that was written off prematurely is evidence that it can happen again. It just takes one player to turn out United quality after an underwhelming initial few months at the club to prove that it's foolhardy to leap to conclusions that quickly about any other player.
Glad to know I'm not the only one thinking that.
I thought the lad did ok yesterday to be honest.
Erm. When? He's not played at the highest level.
And his record is 4 goals in 26 in the Portuguese 2nd division. Not "shitloads" is it.
Spot on
Nani scored a belter against Spurs in his what 2nd game for us? Although inconsistent he has always shown quality is there. Anderson ditto. Can't see valid comparison there. Nani and Anderson always had potential to be world beaters and Nani is getting there, Anderson is becoming a solid player as well.
The problem here is the price tag. For 7.5m you would expect someone who can cross a ball somewhere else besides row z, or a player that would beat his man and control a football, without 5 years further development in our academy and going on loan. His cited abilities are being pacy - well for that matter we could've bought Usein Bolt, he's even United fan and is sure to be quicker..
Why would we buy a raw article, waay behind in terms of development to what we have in the moment(Cleverly is much better winger and Welbeck and Macheda much better strikers than him), and learn him the basics in football, then maybe offloading him to 3rd tier club in League one and then hope he could come good. I mean to take a huge gamble like that he has to have something in the locker right now, not only potential.
If we're to buy someone from different league and country he has to be better than what we've got. In this case I'd have kept Cleverly and played him 7 games this season...
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