Bebe | 2010/11 Performances

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Sultan said:
It seems to me because Millions was paid for Bebe the management needs to prove his worth ahead of other home grown players.
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In fairness Sults, I think he's definitely been forced into action of late.

I don't think that he was set to come into our line up for a Premier League game at this early stage. But injuries have forced Ferguson's hand.

No Nani, Valencia or Giggs.

If anything, this has shown that we're light out wide.
 
Sultan said:
It seems to me because Millions was paid for Bebe the management needs to prove his worth ahead of other home grown players.
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That a very unfair crisism on both the player and the management team.

Perhaps our homegrown players simply don't have the head to play for United. They're often talked up on these forums as being excellent players but the majority of them get sold on before they even get a chance.

Ferguson often talks about having the United attitude. Even though Bebe had a mixed game, he was always willing to receive and play the ball. No fear. Thats the United attitude and that will have impressed Ferguson. You tend to find out about the character of a player when they're having a bad day, Bebe impressed me.

Berbatov and Rooney have played far, far worse this season.
 
RedSky At Night said:
I disagree. The Fletchers/Ronnies/Nani's of this world set the benchmark that all other players need to match. They are proof that signing young unproven players can work out but they need time and games to bed in.

Time and games that fans don't like to give and will often critise the player for. But its an invaluable experience for both the player and the management team to be able to see how far they're progressing and identify their weakness'.

No doubt Bebe will be on the training pitch practising his crossing for the next 5 days.
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There you go again, Ronnie and Nani... both were technically gifted youngsters, prodigious and needed games and coaching to aid their understanding of the game and hone their already fabulously naturally gifted techniques.

Bebe can barely cross a ball, technically he is not in the same league.. so its not a fair comparison for him to be using the likes of Ronaldo/Nani as examples.

Fletcher by all accounts was a very gifted youngster coming through the academy though his progress did slow down once he tried to break through into the first team.. so that is a fairer example to use, although we didn't spend any money on him.. I doubt Fletch when he was younger would have been bought by us for £7.5 million if he was playing in the 3rd division of the scottish league.
 
RedSky At Night said:
That a very unfair crisism on both the player and the management team.

Perhaps our homegrown players simply don't have the head to play for United. They're often talked up on these forums as being excellent players but the majority of them get sold on before they even get a chance.

Ferguson often talks about having the United attitude. Even though Bebe had a mixed game, he was always willing to receive and play the ball. No fear. Thats the United attitude and that will have impressed Ferguson. You tend to find out about the character of a player when they're having a bad day, Bebe impressed me.

Berbatov and Rooney have played far, far worse this season.
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Really?

It was a poor performance from Bebe today, but if ever there was a player that needed unconditional support, it's this lad.
 
RedSky At Night said:
I disagree. The Fletchers/Ronnies/Nani's of this world set the benchmark that all other players need to match. They are proof that signing young unproven players can work out but they need time and games to bed in.

Time and games that fans don't like to give and will often critise the player for. But its an invaluable experience for both the player and the management team to be able to see how far they're progressing and identify their weakness'.

No doubt Bebe will be on the training pitch practising his crossing for the next 5 days.
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Paying around 30 Million for Anderson and Nani is hardly what I would call signing unproven players. Ronaldo had raw talent, which was obvious from the moment he played his first game against Bolton. Was still a massive investment and a risk.
 
RedSky At Night said:
That a very unfair crisism on both the player and the management team.

Perhaps our homegrown players simply don't have the head to play for United. They're often talked up on these forums as being excellent players but the majority of them get sold on before they even get a chance.

Ferguson often talks about having the United attitude. Even though Bebe had a mixed game, he was always willing to receive and play the ball. No fear. Thats the United attitude and that will have impressed Ferguson. You tend to find out about the character of a player when they're having a bad day, Bebe impressed me.

Berbatov and Rooney have played far, far worse this season.
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Attitude is not enough to play at the highest level. Just one of many qualities needed.
 
Sultan said:
It seems to me because Millions was paid for Bebe the management needs to prove his worth ahead of other home grown players.
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Or believe he'll grow to be a better player than everything else we've got in his position, so choose to give him the playing time.

If it's Cleverley you're talking about, surely a loan deal that is supposed to give him pitch time should be quite positive for him.
 
Feed Me said:
If anything, this has shown that we're light out wide.
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Nani's great, you can't legislate for an injury like Valencia's, Park is playing himself into form now, and Giggs is Giggs. That's a good mix, and having Obertan as a fifth option is quite good. The fact we ended up needing to turn to option number six is just unlucky.
 
Raees said:
Bebe can barely cross a ball, technically he is not in the same league..
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He could cross the ball midweek. You're evaluating his entire game based on 70minutes of football and have come to the conclusion that he isn't the same skillset as Nani/Ronnie. Thats some kneejerk reaction there, close to muppet like.
 
Sultan said:
Paying around 30 Million for Anderson and Nani is hardly what I would call signing unproven players. Ronaldo had raw talent, which was obvious from the moment he played his first game against Bolton. Was still a massive investment and a risk.
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Mind you, signing a player always involves an element of risk. Even with world class players or let's say players who are transferred for record fees, there is not guarantee that they wont flop...

The list of record flops is endless...from Birtles, Blissett and McKenzie in the 70/80's, to the likes of Collymore, Veron, Shevchenko, Jeffers...
 
Sultan said:
It seems to me because Millions was paid for Bebe the management needs to prove his worth ahead of other home grown players.
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Like Eikrem or Morrisson? I don't think either of them are ready for a tough PL game yet.
 
RedSky At Night said:
He could cross the ball midweek. You're evaluating his entire game based on 70minutes of football and have come to the conclusion that he isn't the same skillset as Nani/Ronnie. Thats some kneejerk reaction there, close to muppet like.
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That's an absurd claim. Surely you can see Bebe is light years behind what Ronaldo and Nani when they were signed.
 
Sultan said:
That's an absurd claim. Surely you can see Bebe is light years behind what Ronaldo and Nani when they were signed.
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Why? Because he struggled with crossing? Are we talking about the same Nani that still can't take a good cornerkick!?

Its absolute bullshit how people always focus on the negatives and never look at the positives. Espically with our young players.
 
Magnus said:
I won´t read through this thread but all I want to say is: Bebe was fecking awful today but I do remember the debut of Evra. Come on lad you can still be a hero
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Yeah, after Evra was raped against City I though he'd never make it as a LB in England as he was too small. I thought his only hope was if he could play LW.

I was slightly wrong.
 
Perhaps our inactivity in the transfer market of not signing at least one established player a season is finally beginning to tell...
 
RedSky At Night said:
Why? Because he struggled with crossing? Are we talking about the same Nani that still can't take a good cornerkick!?

Its absolute bullshit how people always focus on the negatives and never look at the positives. Espically with our young players.
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Ronaldo and Nani were clearly more accomplished footballers when they arrived here than Bebe currently is.

That's not to say Bebe can't carve a career out here...
 
Sultan said:
You may well be correct.

However, Bebe is also not ready.
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Well I think Fergie can be forgiven for thinking he was ready based on his good showing in the CL game.

As it turns out he was too nervous today.

But where does that leave us? It leaves us with a player with potential that needs more games under his belt for us. And I'm sure he'll get that over time.
 
Sultan said:
Perhaps our inactivity in the transfer market of not signing at least one established player a season is finally beginning to tell...
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The muppet inside me is telling me that come next january we may be signing someone... much depend on the performances of anderson, hargreaves and gibson from now till christmas, because central midfield looks to be the biggest headache.

With Valencia's return scheduled for February, I think there will be no problems with wingers with Nani, Valencia, Giggs, Park all available, not to mention Obertan.
 
Sultan said:
Perhaps our inactivity in the transfer market of not signing at least one established player a season is finally beginning to tell...
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If we'd bought Hernandez for 20m after the WC would it have satisfied that quota though?

If 'established' just means players with experience then we could have bought Poulsen I guess.
 
Feed Me said:
Ronaldo and Nani were clearly more accomplished footballers when they arrived here than Bebe currently is.

That's not to say Bebe can't carve a career out here...
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I'm not suggesting otherwise. But I am trying to point out that Bebe does have quality and wasn't as bad as people are making out. Too many kneejerk posts based on 1 performance.

We were all praising him a few days ago for scoring yet another goal. Now half the forum is saying he should be sold, not good enough, "should go home".
 
RedSky At Night said:
I'm not suggesting otherwise. But I am trying to point out that Bebe does have quality and wasn't as bad as people are making out. Too many kneejerk posts based on 1 performance.

We were all praising him a few days ago for scoring yet another goal. Now half the forum is saying he should be sold, not good enough, "should go home".
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Yeah, but this is the Caf mate. Get used to it. There's no such thing as a sensible middle ground here!

From what I've seen of him, I don't see that stand-out 'star quality' that I saw in Ronaldo, and to a lesser extent, Nani.

But I agree - given that SAF says he's so raw and so lacking in proper coaching at this stage, I think he deserves to be given a hell of a lot of lee-way.
 
Saying he should be sold, and saying he's not good enough.. is different to saying I don't think we should've have brought him for so much, when he was such a raw, unknown player. There is a key difference, one's writing him off.. the other is merely a statement with regards to the economics involved with the transfer in question.

There were also alot of overhit crosses in the initial youtube videos of him. However I've also seen his other performances since he's joined us and yes he is capable of putting in decent crosses with either foot but regardless I still am not happy with the way we conducted ourselves in this transfer.. we should be signing players who have raw talent but that still means they should be technically accomplished already (fundamentals should be present), especially when alot of money is being spent.

If you want really raw gems and good physical specimens, develop them into superstars from literally scratch, the initial purchase should not be running into millions.
 
Feed Me said:
Yeah, but this is the Caf mate. Get used to it. There's no such thing as a sensible middle ground here!

From what I've seen of him, I don't see that stand-out 'star quality' that I saw in Ronaldo, and to a lesser extent, Nani.

But I agree - given that SAF says he's so raw and so lacking in proper coaching at this stage, I think he deserves to be given a hell of a lot of lee-way.
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The only issue with Bebe was it's cost, kind of "why him?".

I doubt you can find at United squad and reserves a single player at this level of cost with a more obscure past.

It's too soon to know what will come of this one. But I can't help but wonder how bad formation is in England if it's preferable to pay 9 million euros for an unknown player of the Portuguese third division of football and have him going straight to the first team than to pick up any other youngsters for the same purpose.

If you had seen glimpses of brilliance of him maybe you could think "yeah, we found a hidden pearl, our scouts are doing a great job" but so far he hasn't showed anything to justify him being special.

I wish him well. Not too long ago he was wondering if he would make it into Guimarães first team and how hard he would work towards that. Suddenly he's being subbed in at the first 5 minutes in a league game at Old Trafford. Talk about pressure, I hope he does well.
 
Arruda said:
The only issue with Bebe was it's cost, kind of "why him?".

I doubt you can find at United squad and reserves a single player at this level of cost with a more obscure past.

It's too soon to know what will come of this one. But I can't help but wonder how bad formation is in England if it's preferable to pay 9 million euros for an unknown player of the Portuguese third division of football and have him going straight to the first team than to pick up any other youngsters for the same purpose.

If you had seen glimpses of brilliance of him maybe you could think "yeah, we found a hidden pearl, our scouts are doing a great job" but so far he hasn't showed anything to justify him being special.

I wish him well. Not too long ago he was wondering if he would make it into Guimarães first team and how hard he would work towards that. Suddenly he's being subbed in at the first 5 minutes in a league game at Old Trafford. Talk about pressure, I hope he does well.
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Good post.

The big feck up on our part is not signing him on a free when we had the chance. That would have meant zero pressure.
 
Can everyone just chill the feck out? It's his 4th game and he's coming from an extremely different environment. He's not going to set the world alight immediately. So, please, shut up and calm the feck down.
 
Raees said:
If you want really raw gems and good physical specimens, develop them into superstars from literally scratch, the initial purchase should not be running into millions.
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I'm not disagreeing with you.

But Pogue and many others have said before. A player should never be judged by the transfer fee, that critism should always be aimed squarely at the club.

I'll push my blaim to Gill because we've been overpaying for players far too much lately. Probably because clubs think we have alot of money when actually we're broke as feck :)
 
RedSky At Night said:
Go visit the matchday thread. Theres a whole host of them there by posters who really should be banned from matchday threads for their own sanitys sake.
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I'm not in a position to read or moderate the match day forum. I'm usually at Old Trafford.
 
Scathing putdown there, Sultan. :lol:

Apparently Bebe was offered to PSV for nothing in May. They said no ta.
 
Feed Me said:
The big feck up on our part is not signing him on a free when we had the chance.
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That kind of goes around, while he was valued at zero probably no one at United knew of him. I explained on post #1389 why I think you were just victims of a fierce marketing scheme, a player that was promoted above his worth. A single individual won 3 million euros in two months with Bebé, investing nothing. Strange, eh?
 
This has blown up out of nothing, the lad's price tag is odd no doubt as he looks as raw as any reserve player I've seen get a few first team minutes, but I think the interest came from his physical attributes, personally I see him being moulded into a striker.

The key here is to remember he's not had the kind of formal training most 20 year olds have had by this point and he's been thrown in at the deep end because our 3 best wingers are injured and half our midfield has the shits, there's no need to panic IMO.
 
Arruda said:
That kind of goes around, while he was valued at zero probably no one at United knew of him. I explained on post #1389 why I think you were just victims of a fierce marketing scheme, a player that was promoted above his worth. A single individual won 3 million euros in two months with Bebé, investing nothing. Strange, eh?
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I've just had a read of it. I must say, if true, it's very disappointing that a club of our scale and quality could fall hook, line and sinker for what is effectively a "scam"...

We shall see how this one unfolds.
 
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