Bebe | 2010/11 Performances

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Arruda said:
I still think he was bought because of the newspaper rumours / tricky agents interests. Pogue for a while managed to make me believe otherwise, but whenever I watch him play I don't think his football is nowhere near Premier League levels.

I do wish him to succeed, it would make a remarkable Cinderela story. I'll keep on watching.
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Interesting, Arruda. I know you really know your stuff regarding Portugal so I always follow your opinions on the Bebe signing closely.
 
Didn't he play as a striker at his Portuguese club? If thats the case then he's trying to learn a new position and should be given time to adapt. I think theres alot of positives to be taken this week.

He's scored, strong and very pacey. On the whole he has good close control and can dribble well. Tends to be open and involved in the game (a critism of Obertan imo is he doesn't get involved enough). The only issue I can see with Bebe is his nerves and crossing.

Probably didn't help his confidence that the support continually groaned at his crossing attempts. If he struggles with crossing then he should be far more direct and look at playing more like Ronaldo rather than a traditional winger. I think he wasn't right in the head today and didn't expect to come on so early. Probably down to poor preparation.

I like his attitude though, keeps on trying never quits. Thats the United heart and imo given some time we'll have another hit on our hands. But i'll echo the wise heads in here and question why he's playing on the wing. He has the pace and trickery (held the ball up well a few times) to make it upfront imo.
 
charleysurf said:
7.4m is not cheap. But I guess you can't turn Bebe into a Glazer scapegoat unless you make out that Fergie has buttons to spend.
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Errr, so you say we actually spent a huge amount on someone who has no first team experience, looked woefully out of his depth against a middling Premiership team and that's somehow better?

I'm not worried at all, we're flying.
 
Seems like a lot of muppets are pushing this 'worst performance by a United player I have seen'. But Jesus, it was the poor crossing that killed his game. The fact that he was involved enough in the game to be attempting so many crosses puts his performance well above that of many performances we have seen.

There's plenty of players who have let games just pass them by and never got involved at all. One thing you can say about Bebe is that he did not hide. Even though nothing was coming off he kept on trying.

I for one think he has huge potential and won't be really judging him until next season.
 
RedSky At Night said:
Didn't he play as a striker at his Portuguese club? .
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Which club? Estrela de Amadora in the Portugese Evo stik league... or Guimaraes where he scored no goals in no fecking appearances?

If Ferguson's son was still an agent, I'd be looking for an investigation... Guimaraes sign him a few weeks before a multi million transfer to United... Dodgy as feck.
 
fadas said:
Which club? Estrela de Amadora in the Portugese Evo stik league... or Guimaraes where he scored no goals in no fecking appearances?
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The point still stands. If he's used to playing as a striker all his life then no shit he'll struggle initially to play on the wing considering they're VERY different roles. Not to mention the language issue which no doubt hinders his learning.

The lad needs time. I for one am happy to see him so active in games, it gives me the assurance that he has the attitude to be a United player. The same attitude that alludes some of the top talents in football.

Give him a year or two and he'll prove Ferguson right.
 
fadas said:
Errr, so you say we actually spent a huge amount on someone who has no first team experience, looked woefully out of his depth against a middling Premiership team and that's somehow better?

I'm not worried at all, we're flying.
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Hmm, I can see that you're not too bright. .

You're blaming the Glazers for Fergie signing Bebe.

But allowing Fergie to spend 7.4m on a player with such little pedigree is hardly a sign that the Glazers are not letting Fergie spend. It would be the opposite in fact.
 
charleysurf said:
Hmm, I can see that you're not too bright. .

You're blaming the Glazers for Fergie signing Bebe.

But allowing Fergie to spend 7.4m on a player with such little pedigree is hardly a sign that the Glazers are not letting Fergie spend. It would be the opposite in fact.
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Aye, and I can see I'm dealing with a mensa candidate here. It's all great with the Glazers... we're buying whoever we like and it's all going to plan. Paying all our profit every year to service the debt is sustainable.

Maybe Ferguson thinks Bebe's brilliant from the youtube clips or, if you want to believe everything Ferguson says, he never even saw him before he bought him.
 
Red Dreams said:
Just give him some time lads.
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That won't happen though. Our youngsters are never given time, they want world beaters right away. The sooner people realise that it takes youngsters time to bed in the better. Hell even Ronnie struggled initially ffs, yet people still don't learn.
 
When him and Obertan and Berba are all on the pitch:

Obeberbatan.

Or the lesser-known declension, Oberbebetov.

One more signing with a "be" in their name please.

So we can have ObeberWinstonbebetan.
 
fadas said:
Aye, and I can see I'm dealing with a mensa candidate here. It's all great with the Glazers... we're buying whoever we like and it's all going to plan. Paying all our profit every year to service the debt is sustainable.

Maybe Ferguson thinks Bebe's brilliant from the youtube clips or, if you want to believe everything Ferguson says, he never even saw him before he bought him.
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Yeah, I'm saying the Glazers are great by pointing out that spending 7.4m on a player you seem to think was dragged straight off the street does not help your argument that Fergie has no money to spend.



Christ, every time United put in a poor performance the cretins come out of the woodwork. It's as if United never played poorly or Fergie never made strange signings in the PLC days. The question you have to ask is whether they actually hope that Fergies signings fail and United lose games.
 
Obertan and Bebe are two wingers who are more Arsenalesque than tailor-fit for United, in that their ball-striking technique is feckin woeful, I coach 7 yr old kids who can strike a ball with more composure under pressure... embarassing especially when you consider we're a club more accustomed to Best, Charlton, Beckham, Scholes, Ronaldo to name but a few.. some of the best ball-strikers in history.

Bebe was pretty decent in his running with the ball, physically quite strong and Valencia-esque in his ability to power past defenders, but his footwork leaves alot to be desired.. possesses none of Nani's raw ability in this regard who possessed a fantastic skillset before he was even at this club, or Obertan for that matter.

His lacksadaisical passing I put down to the pressure, his touch was pretty decent, so I think there is more to come from him.. hopefully.

That said I think its frankly a disgrace that we shelled out so much for this lad, regardless of how good he goes on to become. Whats the point of signing such a raw player, if you're going to splash £7 million on him... makes very little financial or footballing sense to me.
 
Raees said:
That said I think its frankly a disgrace that we shelled out so much for this lad, regardless of how good he goes on to become. Whats the point of signing such a raw player, if you're going to splash £7 million on him... makes very little financial or footballing sense to me.
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The only reason I can think of is that the scouting network thought he'd be a future world star. Its the only reason why we'd fork out so much money on such a raw player.
 
Raees said:
That said I think its frankly a disgrace that we shelled out so much for this lad, regardless of how good he goes on to become. Whats the point of signing such a raw player, if you're going to splash £7 million on him... makes very little financial or footballing sense to me.
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So no matter how good he becomes he's a terrible signing? Leaving yourself a hostage to fortune there.
 
The thing is some of his crossing was just brainless it was like seeing a pub player. I think he needs more coaching in decision making than actual ball work.
 
Charley - I didn't say you thought all was great with the Glazers.

Do you consider 7 million quid a significant amount on a player nowadays? It's buttons.

And Ferguson throwing it out on Bebe means he has feck all else or he's lost his marbles as it represents a huge amount of out transfer fund on someone who, on all evidence, looks like a bloke off the local park.

Maybe there's just no value to be had elsewhere. We'll see, I guess.

Actually you're right, 7 mill is big money and he's spent it on Bebe..... that's kinda worse.
 
Redsky, I hope you're right. I'd be happy to be proved wrong.
 
Horrible crossing. But besides that ( i know its hard to look past that utte shit) he was actually decent. He made himself available, he used his stength, heald the ball up well and continued to attack even after horrible, horrible crosses.

I bet he wasn't mentally prepared to come into the game that early in a PL game at Old Trafford.

He has 2 goals already and has shown good signs.

Patience people.

And anyone thinking that his performance was the worste they have seen blah blah, all you have to do is watch Berbatov last Tuesday and he was much, much worse. Petulance, pouting and all.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
feck it, that's as good as a kiss of death. Another Liam Miller it is then.
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:lol:

charleysurf said:
So no matter how good he becomes he's a terrible signing? Leaving yourself a hostage to fortune there.
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No its not a terrible signing if he becomes a good player, what I'm saying is that there was no need to be spending such money on a player who is basically a physical speciment with hardly outstanding technique, who has little experience of the top level. Its too much of a gamble and in our financial situation, we should only be signing certs or as close we can get in order to truly get value for money. The fact Fergie hadn't even seen a video of him.. very amatuerish for a club of our stature.

Players like Bebe should be £1 mill - £2mill max, risks that if they don't come off, at least you've left yourself money in the bank to go out and buy a more accomplished reliable talent.
 
fadas said:
Redsky, I hope you're right. I'd be happy to be proved wrong.
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So do I! But I think people expect too much from him too soon. Its like Macheda all over again, they score a goal and suddenly they become the next Maradona and when they struggle in a game they become Liam Miller.

Thats the problem with young, raw players. They've unrealible, but they're also exciting to follow. Look at the progress of Ronaldo and Nani. I've loved watching the pair of them grow into world class players.

You watch them have a bad day and it makes the good days even sweeter. He's been thrown into the deep end very early and he's coming out of it with 2 goals and bad crossing! I wouldn't call that a disaster.
 
Whaddya know......the caf's gone beserk because a young unknown had a bad game. All players have bad games and this young lad's been thrown in, with very little experience and he's worked his socks off in the last 3 games.

He's a tough one this Bebe and he'll prove how good he is over the next couple of years. Y'all just need to calm down and look at things in perspective abit more. Less of this writing off players, it's become a disease.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
Horrible crossing. But besides that ( i know its hard to look past that utte shit) he was actually decent. He made himself available, he used his stength, heald the ball up well and continued to attack even after horrible, horrible crosses.

I bet he wasn't mentally prepared to come into the game that early in a PL game at Old Trafford.

He has 2 goals already and has shown good signs.

Patience people.

And anyone thinking that his performance was the worste they have seen blah blah, all you have to do is watch Berbatov last Tuesday and he was much, much worse. Petulance, pouting and all.
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is a virtue of the few...
 
Raees said:
Players like Bebe should be £1 mill - £2mill max, risks that if they don't come off, at least you've left yourself money in the bank to go out and buy a more accomplished reliable talent.
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Its the Manchester United tax mate. Look at Costa for a prime example of this. If Bebe was signed by Wolves/Bolton etc then it'd be for bugger all cash.

But because a big name comes in for a player, you get the x6 tax.
 
redwhiteblack said:
Interesting, Arruda. I know you really know your stuff regarding Portugal so I always follow your opinions on the Bebe signing closely.
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I meant that Bebé's transfer followed an unusual route.

Jorge Mendes - probably the most powerful agent in the world - netted 30% of this transfer value, in bulk it was about the same he won with Cristiano Ronaldo's transfer to Madrid, so you can get an idea.

Mendes invested on Bebé, which means he clearly had some sort of potential. But to go for United for this sort of money seems too much in too short time for a kid like him. Mendes is a master at capitalizing on transfers, and I'm sure his influence is the reason why so many bullshit rumours surfaced in the newspapers shortly before his transfer - stuff like Real Madrid keeping a watch on him, and such. I just think United bit the bait.

Pure speculation, yes, but I don't think that idea of a "scout" in Portugal that knew of his talent makes that much sense. If such was the case why didn't you go for him two months earlier and signed him totally free?

Also why didn't United try to bargain? It's vary rare that clubs sell their players for the clause value, it's just a value to keep some negotiating power in the hands of the selling club. I can't believe that Guimarães, a club with a yearly budget of 11 million euros wouldn't let this guy go for half the price, considering how much it would mean to them already. I think on this particular transfer SAF was probably advised by the wrong people.
 
RedSky At Night said:
So do I! But I think people expect too much from him too soon. Its like Macheda all over again, they score a goal and suddenly they become the next Maradona and when they struggle in a game they become Liam Miller.

Thats the problem with young, raw players. They've unrealible, but they're also exciting to follow. Look at the progress of Ronaldo and Nani. I've loved watching the pair of them grow into world class players.

You watch them have a bad day and it makes the good days even sweeter. He's been thrown into the deep end very early and he's coming out of it with 2 goals and bad crossing! I wouldn't call that a disaster.
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Ronaldo and Nani keep getting brought up.. but with Ronaldo, as soon as he made his debut, we all knew he was a 'player'. The boy just had it, that x factor.. blew us all away. His end product was inconsistent but all the raw materials were there.. ability to whip it in with both feet, excellent long shot though we didn't know it'd be as world class as it is now, and fantastic skills -mind blowing, like nothing we'd ever seen at United.

Nani, the issue was not about his skills and technical ability, it was more of a physical issue as he just wasn't making an impact on the left and it was also a footballing intelligence issue.. but since he has made his mark on that right, he's been a sensation.

Likes of Bebe and Macheda, do not merit a defence based on the development of C.Ronaldo.. it does them both no favours.
 
Raees said:
Ronaldo and Nani keep getting brought up.. but with Ronaldo, as soon as he made his debut, we all knew he was a 'player'. The boy just had it, that x factor.. blew us all away. His end product was inconsistent but all the raw materials were there.. ability to whip it in with both feet, excellent long shot though we didn't know it'd be as world class as it is now, and fantastic skills -mind blowing, like nothing we'd ever seen at United.

Nani, the issue was not about his skills and technical ability, it was more of a physical issue as he just wasn't making an impact on the left and it was also a footballing intelligence issue.. but since he has made his mark on that right, he's been a sensation.

Likes of Bebe and Macheda, do not merit a defence based on the development of C.Ronaldo.. it does them both no favours.
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Exactly, besides Nani already had two seasons as a first team regular at Sporting, talent to show, goals. Bebe had a season at our third level of football. Any comparisons between the two on this level are a bit stretched.
 
RedSky At Night said:
Its the Manchester United tax mate. Look at Costa for a prime example of this. If Bebe was signed by Wolves/Bolton etc then it'd be for bugger all cash.

But because a big name comes in for a player, you get the x6 tax.
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If you're referring to Douglas Costa, well I agree with you in the most part.. but he was a brazillian sensation in their league, a highly talked about player and well known on our shores and in Europe, so you could see why such a player can have his price extorted to such crazy amounts i.e. Brazillian tax times United tax.

This kid was from the Portuguese third division? for a player from such a obscure league, such a lack of knowledge about him.. why couldn't we swoop for him at a lesser price. I can't think of a signing from such an obscure place and signed for that amount of money.
 
Red Defence said:
Quite.....we won't know whether he was worth it for 2-3 yrs yet so there's no point making judgements now.
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Point taken.

However, I've seen better players in the United reserves who deserve a chance ahead of Bebe in the first team. Let him learn his trade in less important matches.
 
It seems to me because Millions was paid for Bebe the management needs to prove his worth ahead of other home grown players.
 
Raees said:
Likes of Bebe and Macheda, do not merit a defence based on the development of C.Ronaldo.. it does them both no favours.
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I disagree. The Fletchers/Ronnies/Nani's of this world set the benchmark that all other players need to match. They are proof that signing young unproven players can work out but they need time and games to bed in.

Time and games that fans don't like to give and will often critise the player for. But its an invaluable experience for both the player and the management team to be able to see how far they're progressing and identify their weakness'.

No doubt Bebe will be on the training pitch practising his crossing for the next 5 days.
 
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