Sometimes you look in a field and you see a cow and you think it's a better cow than the one you've got in your own field. It's a fact. Right? And it never really works out that way.
BBC: United hold talks with Mourinho
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I guess reading the Caf lately, i've gotten a different feel for the way people view both these managers.
I agree with your post, my whole point was that they both have pros and cons, and i'd be perfectly happy if either manages us.
Where does this leaves me considering that I have vigorously defended both of them from a lot of pathetic criticism?
It looks as if City may be a challenge for Pep. They're quite shit.
Im not a huge Mourinho fan by any means, but he is the only/best option right now by some distance. There are question marks over his long term prospects, his focus (or lack of) on youth, his playing style and his history of falling out with his clubs, but there are no question marks over his ability to win trophies.
If we had had 2-3 successful years under LVG, winning a couple of trophies and playing some good football along the way then there wouldnt be a "need" for a Mourinho to come in. It was within that framework that I previously supported Giggs as the next manager, but with the way things have gone under LVG we need someone to come in and have an instant impact. The job as it stands would be far too much to give to Giggs, especially with Pep across the city. Mourinho on the other hand would likely be extremely motivated to renew his rivalry with Pep, and to have some revenge on Chelsea. He has also appeared to express interest in the United job previously.
If we had had 2-3 successful years under LVG, winning a couple of trophies and playing some good football along the way then there wouldnt be a "need" for a Mourinho to come in. It was within that framework that I previously supported Giggs as the next manager, but with the way things have gone under LVG we need someone to come in and have an instant impact. The job as it stands would be far too much to give to Giggs, especially with Pep across the city. Mourinho on the other hand would likely be extremely motivated to renew his rivalry with Pep, and to have some revenge on Chelsea. He has also appeared to express interest in the United job previously.
For the anti-Maureen brigade, what credible option lies out there as an alternative.
I wanted Jose as SAFs successor, the arrogance and stubbornness of our board and some fans is breathtaking, I miss the cut-throat United of the 1990s, no prisoners on our way to total domination.
The success has made us bloated, and far away from being United as a club than ever before.
the man like Fergie is aproven winner who has clamoured for this job for a very long time, easily the best manager past decade. Surely his credentials tick every box to take the hotseat, I mean Fergie was no saint was he.
I wanted Jose as SAFs successor, the arrogance and stubbornness of our board and some fans is breathtaking, I miss the cut-throat United of the 1990s, no prisoners on our way to total domination.
The success has made us bloated, and far away from being United as a club than ever before.
the man like Fergie is aproven winner who has clamoured for this job for a very long time, easily the best manager past decade. Surely his credentials tick every box to take the hotseat, I mean Fergie was no saint was he.
Because if something gets repeated often enough people start to take it for a fact.
If we are going to judge managers on what they achieved in relation to the quality of the team, the comparison between Mourinho and Guardiola is rather pointless as the best one is already in charge.
I'm not sure. I think some of you underrate Guardiola.
Barca may have that front three now, but they have not reached the levels they were at in 2011. The way they played football back then was utterly revolutionary and breathtaking.
The way Bayern play now and the way they completely dominate their league is similar.
It's true he always has had unlimited funds and inherits a great squad. But many amazing managers don't come close to what he achieved with similar resources, let alone in the manner he has done it, playing football in an incredible way.
Let's not forget, his Barca treble winning team of 2009 who simply changed the way football was played and completely schooled probably our greatest ever team, had not won anything in two years when he took over. In 2008 they were third in La Liga behind Villarreal.
I don't think he is as great as managers like Alex Ferguson but he is the best coach on the planet right now. He will have a serious claim to rival the very greatest of all time if we wins the European Cup with Bayern this year.
That said, Mouriniho was able to stop him in 2011/12. He is the only man that United can get to rival City for me. Him and Pep are the best two coaches.
Barca may have that front three now, but they have not reached the levels they were at in 2011. The way they played football back then was utterly revolutionary and breathtaking.
The way Bayern play now and the way they completely dominate their league is similar.
It's true he always has had unlimited funds and inherits a great squad. But many amazing managers don't come close to what he achieved with similar resources, let alone in the manner he has done it, playing football in an incredible way.
Let's not forget, his Barca treble winning team of 2009 who simply changed the way football was played and completely schooled probably our greatest ever team, had not won anything in two years when he took over. In 2008 they were third in La Liga behind Villarreal.
I don't think he is as great as managers like Alex Ferguson but he is the best coach on the planet right now. He will have a serious claim to rival the very greatest of all time if we wins the European Cup with Bayern this year.
That said, Mouriniho was able to stop him in 2011/12. He is the only man that United can get to rival City for me. Him and Pep are the best two coaches.
Agreed, but I think if he can make this City team dominate for years to come he will be one of the greatest. He was blessed with some amazing players at Barcelona but you still need to be a pretty great manager to dominate like he did. He took over a CL winning Bayern and continues to dominate with them (again, pretty good circumstances but still takes a lot to compete on that level).
Now he has taken City, a team who have done well but have never dominated. the squad is in need of rejuvenation and there are more teams competing in the EPL than the other two leagues so if he can dominate he's going to go down as one of the best.
I don't disagree with you, I've said in other threads I think he has his work cut out with that squad.
They could easily spend £200m+ this summer though and all of a sudden he's got one of the best squads in Europe to work with again.
I agree. Are you pro Mouriniho? It looks like the board think he is the only man who can stop Pep and he probably is. He has a winning attitude and is great in the big games. The only problem is the fallout after a few years he always has, but then again Pep always jumps ship after a few years.
The trajectory seems obvious to me:
Pep at Barca: with an astonishingly good team, he practically sweeps all before him.
Pep at Bayern: Domestic success. However, in the shadow of Barca, he fails to truly succeed.
Pep at City: with a lesser team than either Barca or Bayern, and given the competition within the PL, he won't truly succeed even domestically. Added to this is the near-certainty that he won't be at City for long, and certainly not long enough to dominate where it really counts: Europe.
As crude a comparison as it might be, for me it's similar to Rodgers: give him a side with outstanding talents & he'll do well...but that's about it. And there's no saying that someone else wouldn't do as well.
If all this seems unfair to Pep, well, his career-choices make it hard to judge his abilities alongside the other, undoubted greats of management.
Pep at Barca: with an astonishingly good team, he practically sweeps all before him.
Pep at Bayern: Domestic success. However, in the shadow of Barca, he fails to truly succeed.
Pep at City: with a lesser team than either Barca or Bayern, and given the competition within the PL, he won't truly succeed even domestically. Added to this is the near-certainty that he won't be at City for long, and certainly not long enough to dominate where it really counts: Europe.
As crude a comparison as it might be, for me it's similar to Rodgers: give him a side with outstanding talents & he'll do well...but that's about it. And there's no saying that someone else wouldn't do as well.
If all this seems unfair to Pep, well, his career-choices make it hard to judge his abilities alongside the other, undoubted greats of management.
If you compare Pep's Barca to Barca circa 2007-08, you'll see quite a difference. And Bayern can still win the thing, it's too early to write them off. There's a reason why Bayern's bosses wanted him to stay there.
I think Mourinho is the best choice at this point in time. Might not be long term but I think he'll push us up the table.
We went behind Moyes back to hire Van Gaal.
We even allowed Moyes to go on full scouting trips, knowing very well that we were planning to sack him within a few weeks.
What else could Van Gaal have said? He simply wont entertain questions about his future, especially not with the media.
Unfortunately with every poor result, they'll poke even harder. And they'll love doing it.
This is all true, the Dutch press were reporting our meetings with LvG a good month or two before we finally ditched Moyes.
And there were very few options LvG could have said to the press regardless.
We dont want you to change your mind.
People just wanted to prove how silly and illogical the arguments you've put up against Mourinho are.
Whether you and minority dont accept him, if he's hired, a lot of United fans will, and life goes on.
Van Gaal himself alluded to that when he said Spurs interested him, but he received a better offer. That was way before we fired poor David.
The way Moyes keeps going on now, it appears that we gave him no indication that the sack was close. It could be that we said nothing to Van Gaal either.
Also , the Dutch leaks were obviously from Van Gaal's side, he cant cry foul now when the same thing happens to him.
there must have been legal stipulations in the contract about not hitting CL targets. Moyes was likely too dim to think it would be triggered, 6 year contract etc
Van Gaal's team usually follow him wherever he goes.
So basically, the only one to fire at this point is Giggs.
They obviously was !
Moyes defense is that he thought that' this was a club that stood by its managers' and thus was shocked when he got fired.
To be fair, I was pleasantly shocked too when we fired him.
Since we now are on our way to hiring the Mendes duo Berta and Mourinho I think we can safely say that a return for Radamel Falcao to United look increasingly likely. Can't wait 
"Hello, Mourinho? We don't want you."
"Ay, caramba!"
Sorry, my Portuguese isn't very good.
Yes, success has made us bloated. It's given a vast section of United fans the notion that we should be top of the league, regardless of squad quality. Whilst most United fans are happy to acknowledge that we need to rebuild, they are not willing to give a manager time to do it. It takes years to do it and it's not, as we are seeing, straight forward or easy.
I don't want Jose and happy for LvG to see out his contract. I trust him to rebuild the squad to a very good level, change now and we could potentially be back to square 1. If we are poor for another season then so be it. This squad needs reshaping, rebuilding and then we go again.
Is that the Portuguese for 'Sorry, but this is Kwik Fit.' ?
Probably, mate - I'm fluent in several languages thanks to the backs of shaving foam tins.
He had the greatest player of all time, in his team. If a manager can't dominate with Messi in his team, the manager should be fired.
I agree though, he did a good job at Barca.
He took over the treble winning team and has been unable to win the CL in 2 attempts. This year is attempt number 3, so lets see how he does.
MCFC do not have the greatest player of all time.
And he is not taking over the treble winning team.
I'd like to see Guardiola manager a team like Porto or Inter, and see if he can win the treble with any of those teams. That would be a terrific achievement.
When you spend 250m and get fewer points at this stage of the season than the inept Moyes, something is VERY wrong. Other clubs have had bad seasons and needed to rebuild and no one takes as long to do it and make it as painful a process.
Yes and as soon as they got wind that he was eerming and aahing about signing a contract extension, they got a replacement.
And sure, Bayern can still win the CL. But so can Real, Bardca, PSG and even MCFC!
Indeed.
Many other top teams change managers yet they seem to continue being competitive. We change manager (I know, I know it was after a long long time), and we go into transition, the end of which is not in sight.
And dare I say it, we are worse this year, than we were last year. Transition suggests that we will hit an immediate bump when Fergie quits and gradually start climbing back up. We hit a bump (7th place), then improved to 4th (which is fine), then dropped to 5th and the manager in charge has no idea how to stop the rot.
The only reason I want LVG out is because he has no plan or idea to get us to win the league. If he had a clear plan (as he seemed to have last season), I'd back him 100%.
Why aren't LVG's comments about the Mourinho stories being invented getting much attention? surely the club would have informed him if this move was taking place?
Precisely. Too big a deal is being made out of this monumental 'rebuilding job' that Van Gaal has undertaken - that will pay dividends in the long term, when a lot of other managers have accomplished far more with far fewer resources; and there are very few discernible long term pieces in our team, or even a sense of progression to provide some solace amid all the (at times justified) doom-mongering. Even the fundamental change in our ideology hasn't taken a firm foothold yet, after almost 20 months incharge and a massive turnover in personnel. You'd like to think the players Van Gaal bought would be at the forefront of our metamorphosis, but bar a handful at most (this includes Shaw who was more of a club signing than someone extracted personally by Van Gaal), none of them have performed exceedingly well within the framework of the system he implemented with (by now - his) personnel in mind, or atleast in a way that points to them being big contributors in he future.
Because LVG isn't in a position to confirm anything and the BBC clearly stated that the club discussed with mourinho but didn't made him any offer. The discussion could be for 2017 or could lead to nothing and it's not LVG's business like it wasn't Pellegrini's business.
Overall, the squad was probably weaker is what I meant. Saurez was key, but the whole team performed well above their level too, thus the scousers prematurely comparing Rodgers to SAF that season. The delusional fools.
If this is actually happening, do people think we'll announce as soon as we've got a deal, or wait until the end of the season?
Would be the worst kept secret in football if it's the latter... that being said, unless Mourinho goes to a different club in the next couple of weeks, everyone is going to assume he'll be our manager next season regardless.
Would be the worst kept secret in football if it's the latter... that being said, unless Mourinho goes to a different club in the next couple of weeks, everyone is going to assume he'll be our manager next season regardless.
No chance we will announce it while LVG is still in charge.
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