Glad to hear you have a good source! But seriously worried about all these stories. In any case, I'm keeping my money in my pocket until the club comes to it's senses.
BBC: United hold talks with Mourinho
- Thread starter Damien
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This is still 100% happening
The best we can do with LVG is stand still and that alone is worse than any damage Mourinho might do to us. Next season Klopp will have Liverpool on the up, Guardiola can basically get anyone he wants who is not at Barca, Bayern and Real Madrid on top of what he already has at City, MP will have Spurs challenging as long as Kane is there and you'd expect Conte to do something to improve Chelsea whilst Van Gaal can't consistently beat midtable and relegation fodder, the very teams we must defeat to gather enough points to challenge. If Van Gaal gets another season then its as bad, if not worse, as handing Giggs the keys to the castle - he will waste our money, again, and proceed to make those new signings cowardly robots and we will be done as a top club.
I understood but it's all a bunch of it buts and maybe's. My argument was Klopp could buy whoever he likes.. They won't be getting another Luis Suarez in the summer so they won't be challenging for anything. I like his work at Dortmund but I haven't seen anything to make me wish he was managing us. We'd still probably be underperforming.
Regardless.. Mourinho's coming and hopefully he brings in 3 good players. I still believe we have the second best squad in this current league. But that's just my opinion.
@Red Bug from the newbies wanted me to post some info he got, so here you go.
Seems like a few people getting worried now but I have been told the following:
Ok so my friend who works at the club has heard this from several people today:
Van Gaal's contract states he must finish third or above this season (instant qualification for CL group stages).
His final year contract states that he must either win the league or CL.
If these conditions are not met then he will be sacked and his contract doesn't have to be paid off in full.
Mourinho knows the terms of Van Gaal's contract and United have been honest with him by stating that they give their manager's the time to honour their contract terms. Basically, Utd don't want Mourinho to look at them as another Chelsea.
It's exactly like when Moyes was in charge. As soon as it became matematically impossible to qualify for the CL he was let go.
Basically, unless we finish third this season - Van Gaal is gone and Mourino will be our new manager for the 2016/17 season. He will also be allowed to bring his own staff, apparently. So that would be the end of Giggs as assistant I think.
Both Giggs and Van Gaal are aware of their target by the way - this is why we have had a slight change of playing style of late. Giggs has been involved with the training sessions a lot more and is worried for his position. Apparently.
This could all be BS - but thought I would share what I have been informed.
Seems like a few people getting worried now but I have been told the following:
Ok so my friend who works at the club has heard this from several people today:
Van Gaal's contract states he must finish third or above this season (instant qualification for CL group stages).
His final year contract states that he must either win the league or CL.
If these conditions are not met then he will be sacked and his contract doesn't have to be paid off in full.
Mourinho knows the terms of Van Gaal's contract and United have been honest with him by stating that they give their manager's the time to honour their contract terms. Basically, Utd don't want Mourinho to look at them as another Chelsea.
It's exactly like when Moyes was in charge. As soon as it became matematically impossible to qualify for the CL he was let go.
Basically, unless we finish third this season - Van Gaal is gone and Mourino will be our new manager for the 2016/17 season. He will also be allowed to bring his own staff, apparently. So that would be the end of Giggs as assistant I think.
Both Giggs and Van Gaal are aware of their target by the way - this is why we have had a slight change of playing style of late. Giggs has been involved with the training sessions a lot more and is worried for his position. Apparently.
This could all be BS - but thought I would share what I have been informed.
Interesting theory. Either way we aint coming third this year. Even though its still not mathematically impossible we just will not get so many points between now and the end of the season. But why does it matter if he wins something his third year. Its his final year anyway. And he has been clear he is retiring after these three years so its not going to be useful to see if they want to extend his contract.
You won't be satisfied until we sack Van Gaal tomorrow morning, despite us being only 1 point behind City in 4th and still in the FA Cup. Van Gaal isn't getting sacked until after May 15, or May 21 if we reach the FA Cup final.
So he must win the league or CL in his final year.... or we slap him about a bit?
I presume this is not the source you're claiming that you know Mourinho will be our manager next season
For this year yes I believe he has to come at least third but the final year makes little sense unless the club refuse to pay his salary which is not going to happen
So if he finishes 3rd this season he carries on or is Mourinho definitely coming as per your source
Maybe so Giggs is taking over a winning club and if he doesn't win his first year it isn't as important as we won something the year before. It would give Giggs a bit of leeway.
I presume this is not the source you're claiming that you know Mourinho will be our manager next season
For this year yes I believe he has to come at least third but the final year makes little sense unless the club refuse to pay his salary which is not going to happen
So if he finishes 3rd this season he carries on or is Mourinho definitely coming as per your source
No its not
He just wanted to share, so I did.ED: "Bye, Louis - you didn't come 3rd."
LVG: "Yes, but...injuries."
ED: "That's good enough for me, welcome back."
LVG: "Yes, but...injuries."
ED: "That's good enough for me, welcome back."
But doesn't that create more pressure on Giggs if LVG did win the league and then leave? Same with Moyes was under more pressure to do well his first season than LVG was in because the former took over a team that won the league. But almost every here said the best scenario for LVG in his first season is for to finish in the top 4.
Where have I said that, all that I said is that under Van Gaal we will not improve next season and with 8 games to go or more depending on the cup its pointless to throw Van Gaal out now. Personally I think that West Ham will put us out of the cup and City will pip us for fourth, if we do manage to achieve either of these aims then great but I still feel that Van Gaal and Giggs have no place next season.
If those are the terms of the contract, then it would likely affect the bonuses paid out and any subsequent loyalty payments for completing the contract.
interesting... thanks.
as others have said, the final year stuff seems far fetched as it doesn't really make sense. but most of us are desperate for good news, so i'll take this!
Not that it really needs to be explained that this is nonsense, as anyone claiming to have 'mates at the club' who know the details of the managers contract is blatantly talking shit - but the idea of a clause that allows someone to be sacked for not meeting performance criteria in the final year of a fixed term contract is just stupid.
Haha can you imagine. Fergies posts would be brilliantly biased and foul-mouthed. He'd get properly stuck in to the RAWK meltdown threads as well.
it only makes sense if it pertains to end of season bonuses. but otherwise, yeah... i don't get it either.
LVG will most likely stay, people are going to have to get used to it. Giggs to take over 2017
He's been blabbering about this 3rd place all season. I think he already knows he'll be sacked if he doesn't make it.
I'm gonna start wanting Arsenal to win now!
Nobody would likely believe a word he said. "I know people at the club.." He'd be banned within a week!
Seems @Red Bug has been on the Red Stripe.
If it's going to go down that route, I'll take Giggs over Van Gaal's final year. It can't be worse, and if it is, the "Giggs as United manager" question would be answered once and for all.
Not mine
I disagree. He is definitely not ready now. But thats not to say he wont be five years down the road after he gets experience actually managing teams. He could show glimpses of this managerial ability but may not have the players to completely show it out and win trophies. Thats when you know he is ready for a big team. Will be more than happy for him to take over then. Just dont rush into things, give him the job, fire him if things dont work out and never go down that road again.
The problem with that route is who will be available in 1, 2, or 3 years when Giggs fails? Jose won't.
Think about it mate i said ''eventually logic prevailed''.
Using the word eventually as i understand it, means something happened a period of time after it should have done.
Yes the logical thing would have been to sack Moyes in Decemeber (or not hire him in the first place) but even though it took a long time they did the right thing in the end by firing him out of a cannon.
If logic didn't eventually prevail then he would still be here, wouldn't he.
I meant if the plan for Giggs to succeed Van Gaal after he leaves following next season. I don't really see Giggs as United manager at all.
Yup. I think if Mourinho doesn't get it this summer, it will never happen.
That's what it feels like though. That the club will have any excuse not to sack him and have stupidly low standards. The only thing we can cling into is the fact that all the sources saying Jose to United are saying it will happen, rather than it is a possibility. So hopefully nothing can change it happening this summer. It genuinely makes me uneasy when we win a few games. The thought of LVG for another year makes me sick.ED: "Bye, Louis - you didn't come 3rd."
LVG: "Yes, but...injuries."
ED: "That's good enough for me, welcome back."
What could be lost in the translation is that Louis could be sacked without being owed the last year of his compensation agreement. In other words, a manager can always be sacked of course, but if certain performance measures are not realized the manager could be sacked without the club being obligated to pay the third year (in this case) of his three year contract.
If you think about it, it's not all that unreasonable for such a clause to be in LVG's contract. The club would have been mad, in fact, not to insist on it. And LVG, given all things, would reasonably believe that he'd meet that criterion (no worse than 3rd place in the second season). And if he doesn't and he loses that last year's wages, so be it. He's already set for life and there's no next club anyway in all likelihood. And if there is a next club or national team for him, he slots right in to that new contract.
Andy Mitten :
" All the talk is about Mourinho and Giggs - but no one knows for certain who will be Van Gaal’s successor, or if indeed there will be one before 2017 .
"So is Jose coming or what?”
“I don't know.”
“I’ve heard it’s a done deal.”
“A lad who knows someone very senior at United/Mourinho’s agents.”
And on and on the conversations go. It’s been like this since United started losing in December, the Mourinho talk increasing when the team the Portuguese would like to manage loses. Or decreasing for a few days when United win a match or two. That’s when a story will pop up, supposedly from a well placed Mourinho ally which will all but state that the Portuguese is coming to United and that he’s been spotted in Stretford Arndale Mall looking at sofas ahead of his move north.
Some reports have even gone as far to say that he’s identified the players that he’ll be bringing – a way of whetting the appetites of fans who’ve had enough of the plodding football under Louis van Gaal.
There are supposed links to people close to Mourinho, people who used to work with Mourinho or want to work with Mourinho.
Mourinho says nothing, but wherever he wanders he leaves a trail of speculation behind him. Just by saying nothing or remaining unemployed adds to it. If Mourinho watches a game in Italy, then a story follows from someone who’s been in his company about how he’s going to ‘Manchester’ next season.
In Manchester, such stories are largely met with approval by United fans who want anybody but Van Gaal in charge. In Spain, they can’t understand why Van Gaal got the job in the first place or why United would give it to such a divisive, bombastic, controversial figure as the former Real Madrid man.
The Dutch have their opinion too. Most like their compatriot and they want him to be a success though they admit he’s floundered. Van Gaal’s close friends were deeply proud of him when he emailed them to announce that he was going to be the boss of the mighty United.
My job involves speaking to people involved in professional football every single day. The subject of United’s manager also comes up frequently, yet there’s a distinct lack of hard information.
Players at United don’t know who’ll be in charge come July. They read the headlines and hear the rumours, but, ultimately, they don’t know for sure.
Staff at the club don’t know; senior staff who knew that Alex Ferguson was going before the media did don't know.
Journalists have different theories. I spoke to two of the best ones who cover United last week. They don't know. One suspects Ryan Giggs will take over, but he’s not sure. The last time United fully briefed the media was in December, though they also denied that they had approached Pep Guardiola before City announced their man in January. And if United are looking at following the trend of announcing a manager in advance, they might look at City to see why that’s not a good idea.
I talked with two big football agents last week, people tuned into football’s grapevine. One is convinced that Mourinho is going to United; the other thinks he hasn’t got a chance, but neither have hard evidence. They can’t both be right, but then nor are they the ones making the decision. Nor are the players or even the fans. United’s decision-making powerbase is tiny – just three people at the core: Ed Woodward and Joel and Avi Glazer.
They have their reasons for acting as they do. One, they’re reluctant to dance to any media tune. Two, they’re reluctant to sack a manager they’ve put so much faith and money into. If they do sack Van Gaal, they’ll want it to be far tidier than David Moyes ’ dismissal, where the stunned Scot found out through the media rather than his employers. And perhaps Mourinho has learned too. News of his move from Porto to Chelsea in 2004 was known in advance.
“He knew he was leaving for Chelsea, the club knew it too,” recalls Benni McCarthy, “Crucially, so did the fans which meant death threats for him.” McCarthy describes the Portuguese as “ the best coach I played under, the most skilled, intelligent and clued up.” And he doesn’t know what the unemployed Jose will do next.
United can’t be blind to the facts and they like to deal in hard data over emotion. If this mediocre, low scoring and injury hit team fails to qualify for the Champions League or finishes another season without a trophy then that will represent another failure. Yet the season is still in play. Key games are still to come, United’s destiny still to be decided.
When it comes to Van Gaal’s successor, the only idea the club have endorsed is that Ryan Giggs is the man they intend to take over, but that was back in the days when they fully expected Van Gaal to see out his contract until 2017. And maybe he will.
" All the talk is about Mourinho and Giggs - but no one knows for certain who will be Van Gaal’s successor, or if indeed there will be one before 2017 .
"So is Jose coming or what?”
“I don't know.”
“I’ve heard it’s a done deal.”
“A lad who knows someone very senior at United/Mourinho’s agents.”
And on and on the conversations go. It’s been like this since United started losing in December, the Mourinho talk increasing when the team the Portuguese would like to manage loses. Or decreasing for a few days when United win a match or two. That’s when a story will pop up, supposedly from a well placed Mourinho ally which will all but state that the Portuguese is coming to United and that he’s been spotted in Stretford Arndale Mall looking at sofas ahead of his move north.
Some reports have even gone as far to say that he’s identified the players that he’ll be bringing – a way of whetting the appetites of fans who’ve had enough of the plodding football under Louis van Gaal.
There are supposed links to people close to Mourinho, people who used to work with Mourinho or want to work with Mourinho.
Mourinho says nothing, but wherever he wanders he leaves a trail of speculation behind him. Just by saying nothing or remaining unemployed adds to it. If Mourinho watches a game in Italy, then a story follows from someone who’s been in his company about how he’s going to ‘Manchester’ next season.
In Manchester, such stories are largely met with approval by United fans who want anybody but Van Gaal in charge. In Spain, they can’t understand why Van Gaal got the job in the first place or why United would give it to such a divisive, bombastic, controversial figure as the former Real Madrid man.
The Dutch have their opinion too. Most like their compatriot and they want him to be a success though they admit he’s floundered. Van Gaal’s close friends were deeply proud of him when he emailed them to announce that he was going to be the boss of the mighty United.
My job involves speaking to people involved in professional football every single day. The subject of United’s manager also comes up frequently, yet there’s a distinct lack of hard information.
Players at United don’t know who’ll be in charge come July. They read the headlines and hear the rumours, but, ultimately, they don’t know for sure.
Staff at the club don’t know; senior staff who knew that Alex Ferguson was going before the media did don't know.
Journalists have different theories. I spoke to two of the best ones who cover United last week. They don't know. One suspects Ryan Giggs will take over, but he’s not sure. The last time United fully briefed the media was in December, though they also denied that they had approached Pep Guardiola before City announced their man in January. And if United are looking at following the trend of announcing a manager in advance, they might look at City to see why that’s not a good idea.
I talked with two big football agents last week, people tuned into football’s grapevine. One is convinced that Mourinho is going to United; the other thinks he hasn’t got a chance, but neither have hard evidence. They can’t both be right, but then nor are they the ones making the decision. Nor are the players or even the fans. United’s decision-making powerbase is tiny – just three people at the core: Ed Woodward and Joel and Avi Glazer.
They have their reasons for acting as they do. One, they’re reluctant to dance to any media tune. Two, they’re reluctant to sack a manager they’ve put so much faith and money into. If they do sack Van Gaal, they’ll want it to be far tidier than David Moyes ’ dismissal, where the stunned Scot found out through the media rather than his employers. And perhaps Mourinho has learned too. News of his move from Porto to Chelsea in 2004 was known in advance.
“He knew he was leaving for Chelsea, the club knew it too,” recalls Benni McCarthy, “Crucially, so did the fans which meant death threats for him.” McCarthy describes the Portuguese as “ the best coach I played under, the most skilled, intelligent and clued up.” And he doesn’t know what the unemployed Jose will do next.
United can’t be blind to the facts and they like to deal in hard data over emotion. If this mediocre, low scoring and injury hit team fails to qualify for the Champions League or finishes another season without a trophy then that will represent another failure. Yet the season is still in play. Key games are still to come, United’s destiny still to be decided.
When it comes to Van Gaal’s successor, the only idea the club have endorsed is that Ryan Giggs is the man they intend to take over, but that was back in the days when they fully expected Van Gaal to see out his contract until 2017. And maybe he will.
Would never believe anything Mitten writes. Always acts likes he is ITK but doesn't know shit.
Exactly. All he's done is summarise the situation which has been done countless times whilst throwing in his two cents at the end.
Let's pretend for a moment Mitten's summary is real. If I was a United fan, I'd be delighted that United stopped media briefings and that their plans who shall manage United next season aren't leaked.
Agreed. At this point, after two seasons, wouldn't we know whether LVG is the right man to take us forward? If the decison process hinges entirely on whether we get top 4 this year, that would simply be ludicrous.
If he had us right up there challenging, it likely wouldn't matter to the board. Moyes was an experienced manager and was a disaster. Let's hope we don't get to the Giggs scenario.
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