Schweini isn't the half of player he used to be(judging by last season), and so far Javi Martinez is average, Gustavo looks much better, but it takes time to adjust to other league tbf.
Bayern Munich
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But Schweini is back this season - the best behind Ribery and Müller until now.
Bayern has announced record numbers for the season 2011/12 tonight.
http://www.fcbayern.telekom.de/en/news/news/2012/38173.php
Bayern has announced record numbers for the season 2011/12 tonight.
http://www.fcbayern.telekom.de/en/news/news/2012/38173.php
Indeed Schweinsteiger seems to have gotten past the injury problems from last season and seems to almost back to his best.
Martinez is still struggling to adept to life and playing style in Munich and it didn't help that he essentially had no pre-season but I think he showed glimpses of what he is capable of against Lille.
Martinez is still struggling to adept to life and playing style in Munich and it didn't help that he essentially had no pre-season but I think he showed glimpses of what he is capable of against Lille.
I seldom understand what people expect from Martinez right now. He has played until the European finals, then the Euros and Olympia, did not have much rest between, did not have a preparation for the season at Bilbao as he trained separately, no season preparation with the new team, new language, new league, new system, new club - he is not an offensive player who can adapt relatively easy when he is more an individualist (like Robben was at the beginning) - he is playing in the center were it is important to know what the men behind, in front or on your sides do. He sometimes shows glimpses - but I am pretty sure he will show his value after the preparation in the winter break. And the time he should have.
There is Gustavo and even Tymoschchuk who should be good enough for the opponents Bayern has right now. And there is the option to play Kroos and Schweinsteiger in the central midfield and let all of Robben, Ribery and Müller play when Gustavo is a little injured - like right now - and Martinez comes from the international match in Panama tomorrow.
I know, but it's still to early, thy didn't play too much big games this season so far, right? I hope he will remain at his best, I really like him as a player.
What happened to Robben, is he just on the bench or injured?
I'm guessing Kroos is keeping him out of the team, because Muller played behind the striker before.
I'm guessing Kroos is keeping him out of the team, because Muller played behind the striker before.
Right now it seems that Heynckes rotates Ribery, Robben, Kroos and Müller equally in the three spots they got for them - but he often did not have all of them available at the same time. And as soon as somebody of them just showed minor aches or coughs they were kept out of the match - something you would not make if you would not have that choice. So Ribery missed about 3 or 4 single matches with problems with his calf, Robben about 4 weeks because nerves in his back somehow caused problems in his legs, Müller a match because of the flu.
Müller most matches started on the right this year (only twice - in the Supercup win against Dortmund and the 6:1 against Lille he was playing behind the striker) - but his match is it to get behind the striker very often and they make that possible very often. That helps the match especially with Kroos as CAM - even if he is more near the box this year he is still playing that position very deep.
So Hoeneß has been reelected as Bayern president with 97%.
Numbers politicians can only dream of.
Numbers politicians can only dream of.
As for why they're so impressive, I can't really add much to:
Last season they had the somewhat one-dimensional threat of Gomez supplied by Ribery and Robben, with an out-of-sorts Muller playing the majority of games and Kroos playing in the hole when they needed to change things. Now they often have Shaqiri, Robben and Gomez waiting in the wings and that fierce competition has really driven the starting players on. Ribery has 22 goals and 29 assists in 56 league starts over the last three seasons so really he's been consistently doing it whenever fit, but it looks to me like he's relishing the (frequent) role of being the only individual in the attack. Muller has 7 goals and 5 assists after just 9 league starts this season, he had 7 goals and 8 assists from 33 league starts last season. He's on course for his best season yet. Mandzukic is 4 goals off his Bundesliga goals total last season from just 1/3 of the games, and could potentially hit 25+ for the first time in his career. Then you've got Pizarro (all-time top foreign scorer in Bundesliga) doing his bit with some crucial goals and assists.
Last season they could have won the league and CL double (and perhaps even the German Cup to make it a treble) if it wasn't for Robben losing form right at the worst time. That's not the sole reason for it but his penalty miss and subsequent open goal miss from a few yards out v Dortmund plus his performance in the CL final really did have a devastating impact on both trophy challenges. If Robben had scored both goals it would've been a Bayern win and left them joint on points with Dortmund with 4 games left. Now they have a big enough squad to rotate those under-performing. Robben still looks far from his best (particularly finishing-wise) so they can rotate him as they need to to help him and the team find their best form. In the mean-time it means Ribery can carry the individual threat while Kroos, Muller and Mandzuckic continue to play unselfish football and contribute in a big way to the quick, incisive short-passing game that has defined their season so far.
It's easy to forget that Bayern now have a young spine to their team. Neuer (26), Boateng (24), Badstuber (23), Alaba (20), Kroos (22) and Muller (23) will form the core of their team over the next 5 years or so, with Martinez (24) and Shaqiri (21) likely to come into the mix as well and the majority of them will be peaking around the same time. Dante (29) has come in and added some class to that defence, Schweinsteiger (28) has picked up his form again, Luiz Gustavo (25) has taken his game to another level and Ribery (29) has been destroying Bundesliga defences for years so they've still got that blend of experience/youth and skill/steel.
Basically they've just grown as a team. Heynckes has 1 year in the job and is beginning to create his team, the young players have had a year or two developing in this Bayern side, they've made some really smart additions to improve the squad and change their attacking style, key players have recovered their best form and they're hungry after missing out on the title in consecutive seasons for the first time since '96.
Last season it was their attack that let them down at the business end of last season but that definitely won't happen this year. I still think there's questions to be asked of their defence because there's always mistakes there in a relatively young back five, but they're well capable of going all the way in all competitions this year. This year and over the next few seasons, I believe. Germany's the country to pay attention to over the next few years with some really talented kids breaking through more and more each season and Bayern will be there to take advantage on a European scale.
So Hoeneß has been reelected as Bayern president with 97%.
Numbers politicians can only dream of.
See it like this. Yes, you do not really have to like him - and yes, even as I am a Bayern fan I often see him very critical (but I have it easy - my father is a copy of him just in local area and other organizations and business - I just am used to persons like him...). When he started as manager in the end of the 70s he got the clubs with debt and it was not as shiny as some years before in the start of the 70s. The first act somehow was to sell Rummenigge to Inter Milan to get out of the worst. What he did after this with the club on the economical side is just splendid. He is arrogant, van Gaal e.g. was right that the staff around just functions because they do not challenge him and I do not like some of the decisions they make and a lot of the talk he does. But for the club's development he has done everything. And apart of this he and the club are not the "bad" big ones who do not care. If they wanted they could get a much bigger share of e.g. the TV profits in Germany (but they do not to keep the balance) - they help struggling clubs out with money even if it is the old opponent Dortmund or the unloved neighbour 1860 (could you think about Man Utd helping ManCity with money?) - and they do a lot charity work. When e.g. Real even takes huge entrance fees for their training sessions during their America trip Bayern plays in Trentino for free for the earth quake victims and while every other big clubs only comes for test matches if heavily paid they do it for free at struggling clubs in Germany or some regional third league teams or fan events.
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Above I talked about the rotation between the 4 offensive players for the three spots. Saturday and Wednesday it is easy again as Robben seems to have a rupture of a muscle fibre as just announced by the club - some problems are easy solved. As Ribery has small problems, too, maybe even Shaq will get some playing time - but he is behind in the pecking order.
But isn't that abundance. A Robben cannot play and nobody cares...
Wouldn't be surprised to see them being the first team to defend the Champions League successfully.
They won't. You can quote me on that.
If Heynckes would stay another year I could see them winning it again next year but you can never predict how fast Guardiola will be able to get the team playing his way and I have a feeling that they will need at least one year to get used to Guardiola.
They will definitely have the squad and manager but will they have the hunger now they have already done it? it's going to be Guardiola's main challenge motivating his players. I wouldn't be surprised though, add Goetze and possibly Lewandowski to this side and I can't see them losing many.
Beat that Pep 
Alright, quoted.
All the Bayern hate on the Caf surprises me quite a bit. Obviously most of us wanted Dortmund to win tonight but I don't think any of us can begrudge Bayern their victory. Not making any silly claims about bitterness like some posters did with Barca, but can anybody explain what it is that personally makes them hate Bayern so much?
I agree a Dortmund win would of been a fairy tale ending but in reality Byern have down so well to come back from last years final as well as overcome Barcelona following their final defeat to them.
Final defeat to Barca?
Their tactics were really weird, Ribery was playing almost second left fullback next to Alaba, he rarely pushed forward. He was more defender then the attacker.
It worked though, but I was surprised, since I think he is Bayern's best player alongside Schweinsteiger. That probably says a lot about Alaba's defensive qualities too.
Of course, that helped Robben to get all the freedom, so no wonder he was always at the end of those good chances.
Anyway, congrats to Bayern fans, Balu and others.
It worked though, but I was surprised, since I think he is Bayern's best player alongside Schweinsteiger. That probably says a lot about Alaba's defensive qualities too.
Of course, that helped Robben to get all the freedom, so no wonder he was always at the end of those good chances.
Anyway, congrats to Bayern fans, Balu and others.
I think being labelled as FC Hollywood or the equivalent of the NY Yankees is enough for most to dislike them.
Their fans were absolutely swarming central London outnumbering Dortmund by about 10:1 from what I saw.
Congrats to Bayern. But there is nothing from that performance to suggest that Man utd can't match them. They are definitely stronger in the middle of the park with Schweni and Martinez. We just need to reinforce our central midfield and sort out Nani and Valencia on the wings. Can't wait to see how Moyes brings in. GGMU !
Is this really necessary?
Thanks a lot. Finally we won that damn trophy, I couldn't even celebrate when Robben scored because I was frightened we'd mess it up again in the last 5 minutes.
I don't think Ribery played different to the last weeks. Since Kroos went out injured he stayed deeper, not only to defend but also to help out in central midfield to connect defense and attack. We really missed Kroos in the first 30minutes, I think we wouldn't have come under so much pressure with him instead of one of Müller/Robben in midfield. Luckily Dortmund didn't score and couldn't keep up the pressure for the whole game. Ribery was influential for both goals, so I can't complain about his contribution in the final third.
I think the most incredible thing about Bayern this season is how they reacted to last year. Loosing every title, being humiliated by Dortmund in the cup final and then messing up the CL final at home. So many questioned the mentality of the team and it's amazing how they reacted. Heynckes did a brilliant job. He's probably the only manager who won the CL twice and never was allowed to try to defend the title because he had to leave both times. He still hasn't told what he's doing next year, but he said he already made his decision last summer after the final, so most likely he will retire. What an ending to his career. When celebrating the league title in 1990 he promised the Bayern fans to win the european cup next season, but they lost to Belgrade in 91 and he was fired at the end of the year which Hoeneß always named as his biggest mistake. I love it that he got the chance to make good on his promise.
Bayern have a brilliant squad!
Congrats to Bayern, even if I wanted Dortmund to win I still think Bayern is a good and deserving winner.After so many losses in finals in the last few years, it's a big relief to win the trophy.
It was a very enjoyable final altogether
It was a very enjoyable final altogether
These finals always tend to have these weird semi insecure posts. "We could have beaten this lot!!" Etc etc
So apparently all we have to do to match them is upgrade our midfield and our wide players. Not to mention our defence which has been leaky whereas theirs has broken records. I don't think we're miles behind anyone but this constant need to downplay other big teams screams if insecurity IMO.
I was in Leicester Square and Trafalgar Square yesterday and had the opposite observation actually.
I swear I joked with my mates saying Robben doesn't want to punish Dortmund from first two chances, because he respects them, and that he will score with his third.
Jupp is great manager, no doubt about that. I think he was the most important part of your team, so it will be insteresting to see you under the Guardiola.
Aye, it's like some strange inferiority complex. I struggle to understand why some fans can't just appreciate a good achievement without thinking of their own team. You can worry about such trivial matters when the two teams face each other. Otherwise, it's just needless speculation.
As you know mate, making the necessary improvements to move your team to the next level is a very hard thing to accomplish in football. It's why I find some of these opinions intriguing. We say all we have to do is improve our midfield, but we haven't done so for about 7 years!!!
It's not downplaying their achievements though is it, they're just saying that we could match them with the right investment. Or are we not allowed to be positive about United on this forum?
We could easily have been in that final had certain decisions gone for us against Madrid and we won the league at a canter so it's not exactly that much of a stretch to dare to suggest we could match them next season.
Bayern are a great side but we're not bad ourselves, especially when you consider the age of the squad and the fact we're likely to invest this summer.
Balu describe Kroos game because I may have a slightly different idea in my head. He was a favourite of Heycknes really helped him advance his career.
I don't think it would have been easy but yes we might have made it but we didn't. The team this year did nit have the look of European champions not enough players playing well imo. With a few improvements we will be right back up there next year.
I wouldn't use the league as a measuring stick for Europe different in how you have to go about winning them.
You saw the complete opposite of what I saw then. Dortmund outnumbered Bayern before and (more impressively) after, dominating all the major landmarks and even outsinging their victorious Bavarian rivals.
So we easily would have beat Dortmund? Are you expecting that viewpoint to not be viewed as slightly arrogant?
Dortmund in their pomp play a not dissimilar (but superior) brand of football to Athletic Bilbao who absolutely ran through you at Old Trafford. I don't think it would be a foregone conclusion by any means, in fact I would fancy a full-strength Dortmund to dominate midfield.
Of course we could beat both of these teams on a lucky day, but the way we handle pressing I have a good feeling we would lose 7 out of 10 games against both of them.
I didn't say we easily 'would' have beaten Dortmund, I said easily 'could' have been in the final. There's a world of difference between could and would.
Maybe it was a bad choice of word, i.e. easily, on my part as I just meant to say that we could've conceivably reached the final had we beaten Madrid.
I really don't think it's arrogant to suggest that we could have beaten Dortmund though, I'll happily admit they could have beaten us as well.
Their transfers over the past 5-6 years have been better than any club in the world. That's what has made the difference.