Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

This actually not true and it was misquoted by many people looking for the easy clickbait on Internet . He said he didn't know anything about the news, but he didn't refer specifically to not having seen the reports.
Nah, mate. It is even recorded on video. Watch the last 5 seconds of the interview on this link:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sp...rde-recuerdo-informes-arbitros-comun-83197378

He literally says at Barcelona he didn't look at the reports on refs and didn't even know they existed.
 
My honest opinions on this matter:
  • You can't buy all refs, especially not with only 500k. I can't really say that any league title was 'bought' by anyone.
  • Barcelona were clearly trying to influence refereeing decisions. It is basically impossible to explain this level of concealment and subterfuge in the service of acts that are fine and harmless.

You don't really need to buy the refs, you need only to buy someone that has power over the refs and can punish them in promotions, etc, if they don't follow your "guidelines".
 
You don't really need to buy the refs, you need only to buy someone that has power over the refs and can punish them in promotions, etc, if they don't follow your "guidelines".

That's what the Villarato theorists have been saying for years. Personally I got what they meant to say but this kind of accusations are very serious and have to be proved with very solid evidence.

Nowadays, after all the stuff that has been released, they claim that maybe they were not so wrong after all.
 
What's the difference between Barca's payments and the ones you mentioned by other clubs? What makes Barca's so delicate? That the receiver still had influence on refereeing decisions?

That both parts were concealing the payments? That they needed to create 'companies' in order to hide this ever happening? That coaching staff in Barcelona wasn't aware?

Haven't you been following the news? :lol:
 
That both parts were concealing the payments? That they needed to create 'companies' in order to hide this ever happening? That coaching staff in Barcelona wasn't aware?

Haven't you been following the news? :lol:

Only superficially
 
You don't really need to buy the refs, you need only to buy someone that has power over the refs and can punish them in promotions, etc, if they don't follow your "guidelines".
Agree.

Afaik in most countries refs receive no fixed wages but only the bonus or whatever they call that per match they get to ref.

So if you get a hold on who says which ref gets which match and how many matches you basically get all the refs.
 
So if you get a hold on who says which ref gets which match and how many matches you basically get all the refs.

Well if that's the case, it's even easier to find some actual or former refs to testify. It's hard to ask someone to incriminate himself, if he took bribe money. But if he was pressured and blackmailed, he would gladly tell the truth to the world, because he has nothing to fear.
 
Well if that's the case, it's even easier to find some actual or former refs to testify. It's hard to ask someone to incriminate himself, if he took bribe money. But if he was pressured and blackmailed, he would gladly tell the truth to the world, because he has nothing to fear.
Imo it'd be not that easy. Each world has its own rules.

And imo the refs do also take their share of the bribed money. If I was the guy in charge of the refs and run this thing I would select only the refs who would take the money for the matches I want to cook. The ones who I think might not or had refused to I'd save them for the ones I don't want to. Or just kick them out of the circle.
 
One question for @Niemans - whataboutery allegations aside, you provided examples of "dubious decisions" against Barcelona in 2016/2017, the payments relate to a far longer period. Just you just pick that year as the most egregious in your opinion, or was that the only year you had "evidence" for?

On the subject of terrible refereeing performances in Barce's favour I seem to remember the champs league final vs Chelsea was a bad one, which affected us directly as we'd have beaten Chelsea in the final :D
 
Well if that's the case, it's even easier to find some actual or former refs to testify. It's hard to ask someone to incriminate himself, if he took bribe money. But if he was pressured and blackmailed, he would gladly tell the truth to the world, because he has nothing to fear.
It seems there are no documents or signed contracts. So if everyone keeps their mouths shut, only tax evasion will be the crime. There is no reason to say anything in this case for the refs.

However if any club in the world paid refs this way and this amount, everyone would come to the same conclusion that it was bribes. Proving it is a different matter altogether. Would La Liga even want to prove it considering they would have to relegate Barca atleast a couple of divisions and a struggling league would become even more unattractive to audiences.
 
But if he was pressured and blackmailed, he would gladly tell the truth to the world, because he has nothing to fear.
It's funny you say that. Because at one time Barca got blackmailed to continue the payments once they stopped them because Negreira was no longer the ref VP.

So Barca had something to fear, right?? As they didn't gladly tell the truth to the world.


It seems there are no documents or signed contracts.So if everyone keeps their mouths shut, only tax evasion will be the crime. There is no reason to say anything in this case for the refs.

Which is interesting, because it contradicts the very first sentence of Barca's official declaration regarding this matter:

"That FC Barcelona contracted for the services of an external technical consultant in the past, who supplied, in video format, technical reports referring to lower-category players in Spain for the Club's technical secretariat."

In case anyone wants to read it:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fcbarcelona.es/es/noticias/3065705/comunicado-del-fc-barcelona/amp
 
One question for @Niemans - whataboutery allegations aside, you provided examples of "dubious decisions" against Barcelona in 2016/2017, the payments relate to a far longer period. Just you just pick that year as the most egregious in your opinion, or was that the only year you had "evidence" for?

On the subject of terrible refereeing performances in Barce's favour I seem to remember the champs league final vs Chelsea was a bad one, which affected us directly as we'd have beaten Chelsea in the final :D

SI I'm honest this thread derails. The 2016-17 campaign was the most atrocious in relation to referees making mistakes against Barcelona and in favor of Real Madrid.
That season happened like this and that's it, life goes on.
But even above they want to manipulate reality and say that Barcelona was favored and Madrid harmed...
The press in Spain is a gigantic echo chamber, without counterweights.

In the Champions League Barcelona was clearly benefited against Chelsea and PSG in the 6-1.
And in the Champions League Barcelona was harmed in several finals but still ended up winning them.

In the 2010 semifinals against Inter Milan he was harmed, in a quarterfinal against Atlético de Madrid, in a tie against Arsenal but in the end Barcelona went through anyway, against Chelsea one year under Mourinho there was also an arbitration decision that elimination cost Barcelona...

In the 2008 Champions League, Scholes himself recognized Messi for a penalty that if Barcelona had scored it, they would have played the final against Chelsea and not United...

These mistakes happen but the outrageous thing is to create narratives that do not conform to reality for certain interests.
 
One question for @Niemans - whataboutery allegations aside, you provided examples of "dubious decisions" against Barcelona in 2016/2017, the payments relate to a far longer period. Just you just pick that year as the most egregious in your opinion, or was that the only year you had "evidence" for?

Of course he has evidence. It is quite simple: Did Barcelona play that season? Did they compete for the title but lose it? If both answers are yes then this is by definition evidence of fraud.
 
At this stage you just need to cancel the whole club. Juventus too.
 
Quick summary of what we know so far:



Barca has secretly paid 7M€ to Negreira, the vice-president of the referee comitee for 18 year during 4 different Barca presidencies. Including Laporta who still holds the position at the moment.



The payments stopped the moment Negreira lost his position. Negreira blackmailed Barca to show the irregularities regarding the club he had witnessed first hand unless they continued the payments until the previously agreed end.



In his declaration to the Spanish tax agency, Negreira said he was being paid to make sure no refereering adverse decision was taken against Barca, so it was all neutral. He also declared there was no report or similar document to prove any service made to Barca.



Barca has not admitted this. In the official declaration Barca argues that an external consultant was contracted for and that they were provided with videos of low-category players in Spain. This very declaration is already refuted as we now know the internal Barca deliberations when the tax agency asked about these payments. They aknowledged not having any contract that justified the payments and wondered if they should say so or just play dumb.

Some people argue Barca paid for video reports of rederee actuations. This does not seem probable as Valverde and Tata Martino, two Barca coaches during this period of time, admitted to have never looked at any ref report during his time at Barca and not even knowing they existed.



The payments happened to a company created by Negreira, his son was the administrator of the company. Negreira´s company main client was FC Barcelona, he barely made any money outside of them. The company was closed 2 years after Barca stopped paying them. The payments also happened to a company created by Negreira´s son.



A poster very smartly already pointed to this:

You don't really need to buy the refs, you need only to buy someone that has power over the refs and can punish them in promotions, etc, if they don't follow your "guidelines".

And so far, it looks like this is what happened.



We know Negreira´s son acted as a personal coach and a psychologist for Spanish referees. Pérez Burrull, an ex-referee active while Negreira was the VP of the ref comitee, has admitted that, given the competition between refs, privetaly hiring the son of the ref VP could help them in their careers. He specifically referred to being promoted or relegated to the second tier.



Thanks to Andújar Oliver, a ref of the same period, we also know that Negreira´s son would call the refs in charge of the important games that happened in Camp Nou. He would ask them at which hotel they were staying and then would drive them personally to the stadium. He admits that, he being the refs VP son, he could not turn him down. Video of Negreira's son accompanying refs to Camp Nou

We also learnt how on one of this trips, where Negreira´s son was driving the 4 refs (referee, two assistant referees and the fourth referee) to the game at Camp Nou he told them:

“You know: here, calm down. Barcelona has a lot at stake and you can´t hesitate. You are more than prepared. You know exactly what you have to do."



It is worth noting that, while doing all these, Negreira´s son admits being employed as an external consultant by Barca (as per his CV available on the net). It is worth remembering that he, and his father, got paid 7M€ by Barca during 18 years.





((I would be more than happy to produce links to any on these points if you want to read more))
 
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SI I'm honest this thread derails. The 2016-17 campaign was the most atrocious in relation to referees making mistakes against Barcelona and in favor of Real Madrid.
That season happened like this and that's it, life goes on.
But even above they want to manipulate reality and say that Barcelona was favored and Madrid harmed...
The press in Spain is a gigantic echo chamber, without counterweights.

In the Champions League Barcelona was clearly benefited against Chelsea and PSG in the 6-1.
And in the Champions League Barcelona was harmed in several finals but still ended up winning them.

In the 2010 semifinals against Inter Milan he was harmed, in a quarterfinal against Atlético de Madrid, in a tie against Arsenal but in the end Barcelona went through anyway, against Chelsea one year under Mourinho there was also an arbitration decision that elimination cost Barcelona...

In the 2008 Champions League, Scholes himself recognized Messi for a penalty that if Barcelona had scored it, they would have played the final against Chelsea and not United...

These mistakes happen but the outrageous thing is to create narratives that do not conform to reality for certain interests.


Your club invested obscene amount of money in a person holding official position, through a "shell" company with the usual window-dressing.


Goose has been cooked already.
 
That's simple enough.

Many teams hire retired refs, as they are experts in the laws of the football, to help them analyze refs tendencies and prepared for them. Also to avoid committing technical mistakes during the home games. But that's retired refs with no influence. This is totally legal and done openly.
For example Barca are paying their retired ref 30.000€ a year for this.

The thing is they paid the VP of the refereering comitee 7M€ for at least 18 years while he was ACTIVE and had influence. Up to 40.000€ a month of hidden payments noone knew about and this dude declared to the Spanish Tax Agency that he was being paid to avoid adverse refereering against them so it was all neutral.



Following your argument: would you say, then, that they had more than double the possession and successful dribbles than Real Madrid, Sevilla, Valencia, Athletic, Atlético put together?
Barca net red cards: 55
Rest of the teams net red cards: 23
(17+ 10 + 6+ (-5) + (-5)=23)
Barca should at least given 100 red cards by right. Therefore guilty
 
I wonder if they pulled the same thing in Europe considering the inordinate amount of decisions going their way.
 
Sevilla statement..pressure building

The club wishes to show its concern and indignation at the data that, day by day, has been released through the media regarding the so-called 'Negreira Case' upper body. A few days after the information about the so-called "Negreira Case" came to public opinion , Sevilla FC wishes to show its concern and indignation at the data that, day by day, has been revealed through the media , leaving Of course, it is absolutely necessary to get to the bottom of the matter to clarify what happened, and, where appropriate, purify the appropriate responsibilities.

The seriousness of the facts known to date, calling into question or raising doubts about the integrity of Spanish football competitions, also leads Sevilla FC to publicly request the League and the RFEF, as the highest representatives of Spanish football , Furthermore, the RFEF is the head of the arbitration group, so that, when the time comes, they promote and appear in all the procedures that may arise from this case once the investigation is finished.

Finally, it is the wish of Sevilla FC to state that, beyond the clubs and their institutions, the fans of all the teams deserve respect, and it is the responsibility of the leaders to favor the necessary context so that the honesty of the competitions is never questioned. in which we participate.
 
Following your argument: would you say, then, that they had more than double the possession and successful dribbles than Real Madrid, Sevilla, Valencia, Athletic, Atlético put together?
Barca net red cards: 55
Rest of the teams net red cards: 23
(17+ 10 + 6+ (-5) + (-5)=23)

See, you claimed that what you presented was evidence. I disagree with that and pointed out why. That doesn't mean that I see it differently and believe the numbers tell the opposite of what you claim. I just think you can't read anything out of it for the reasons stated earlier. If you ask me, I think all of this is highly suspicious, too, and consider it more likely that they indeed manipulated games. Still, net red cards over a 20 year period aren't an evidence of that.

But because it's fun, let's speculate a bit. First of all, I believe the only comparable club in general is Real Madrid. Sevilla, Valencia and Athletic were never on the same level and also had bad seasons occasionally. Why does that matter? Well, better teams usually have more possession, they control games and are rarely in situations in which a defender feels the need to make a desperate tackle, gets frustrated, etc. I believe you generally agree with that because you listed some of the best teams of La Liga. Now the question is rather why Madrid has such a bad record? And IMO that can be explained with having (had) many notorious players and even managers for them. The same is true for Atletico. It would be more interesting to compare the numbers of Barcelona with, say, Bayern. Or over a shorter and more recent period with maybe City, PSG or Liverpool. Unfortunately I don't know where to get these stats from in comprehensive form. But my gut feeling tells me that Madrid is the outlier here, not Barca. Maybe even both, who knows.

The quotes you posted about the referee chief's son are much more telling than the numbers, I'd say. As are the infos regarding the concealing of the payments.
 
I don't understand why Laporta does not give further explanations. The damage to the club's reputation is being enormous.
 
Hopefully we’ll get a ref on Thursday who’s taking their attempts at influencing referees personally.
 
I wonder if they pulled the same thing in Europe considering the inordinate amount of decisions going their way.

False. Barcelona was hurt more in Europe than they did.
The problem is the echo chambers where people remain with no intention of leaving.

Barcelona was favored in the semifinal against Chelsea and in the knockout stages against PSG (6-1). No one denies that.

Now the times el Barcelona harmed :

Champions League Finals:

- Barcelona 2 - Arsenal 1


- Goal badly annulled to Barcelona as soon as the game started because the referee did not give the law of advantage. The goalkeeper was sent off.
-Arsenal's goal comes from a non-existent free-kick.

- Barcelona 3 - M. United 1

- Rooney's equalizing goal offside
- Clear hand inside the United area and no penalty was whistled. The match was 1-0.

Barcelona 3 - Juventus 1

- Clear hand inside the area of a Juventus defender. The match was 1-0 and could be 2-0.

Other qualifiers :

- Manchester 1 - Barcelona 0. Champions League semifinals.


Penalty from Scholes to Messi, recognized in the press by Scholes himself. If Barcelona had scored the penalty they would have played the final and United would have one less Champions League.

- Semifinals vs Inter Milan (3-2 in the tie).

Offside goal by Milito and a possible penalty in the first leg.
Goal annulled badly in the return to Bojan.

- Quarterfinal against Chelsea.

Chelsea goal not canceled due to a foul on the goalkeeper that gives the classification to the next round.

- Quarterfinals against Atlético de Madrid.

Hand of Atlético de Madrid inside the area that the referee takes out. It was at the end of the game and the penalty goal would have meant going to extra time.


Right now I don't have time but at another time I will put the videos and images of all the situations that I have commented on.


And to finish I want to ask a question to all users. Madrid all these years has been favored or harmed in Europe?.
 
I don't understand why Laporta does not give further explanations. The damage to the club's reputation is being enormous.

They say they are doing an internal investigation.
 
They say they are doing an internal investigation.

That's really, really cute.

Laporta launched an internal investigation to discover why he quadrupled Negreira's salary during his first presidency run.
 
And IMO that can be explained with having (had) many notorious players and even managers for them.

You might have missed my edit in an earlier discussion, but it's not clear this explanation holds up. Ramos got carded a lot, but no one else at RM really did (including Pepe, despite his reputation), and a number of Barcelona players are ahead of every RM player bar Ramos in reds and yellows (Pique, Alves in reds and yellows, Alba and Busquets in yellows).
 
And to finish I want to ask a question to all users. Madrid all these years has been favored or harmed in Europe?.

So what you are fundamentally saying is that all Spanish teams bribe referees in Europe?
Probably makes sense and explains Uniteds shite record against Spanish teams.
 
False. Barcelona was hurt more in Europe than they did.
The problem is the echo chambers where people remain with no intention of leaving.

Barcelona was favored in the semifinal against Chelsea and in the knockout stages against PSG (6-1). No one denies that.

Now the times el Barcelona harmed :

Champions League Finals:

- Barcelona 2 - Arsenal 1


- Goal badly annulled to Barcelona as soon as the game started because the referee did not give the law of advantage. The goalkeeper was sent off.
-Arsenal's goal comes from a non-existent free-kick.

- Barcelona 3 - M. United 1

- Rooney's equalizing goal offside
- Clear hand inside the United area and no penalty was whistled. The match was 1-0.

Barcelona 3 - Juventus 1

- Clear hand inside the area of a Juventus defender. The match was 1-0 and could be 2-0.

Other qualifiers :

- Manchester 1 - Barcelona 0. Champions League semifinals.


Penalty from Scholes to Messi, recognized in the press by Scholes himself. If Barcelona had scored the penalty they would have played the final and United would have one less Champions League.

- Semifinals vs Inter Milan (3-2 in the tie).

Offside goal by Milito and a possible penalty in the first leg.
Goal annulled badly in the return to Bojan.

- Quarterfinal against Chelsea.

Chelsea goal not canceled due to a foul on the goalkeeper that gives the classification to the next round.

- Quarterfinals against Atlético de Madrid.

Hand of Atlético de Madrid inside the area that the referee takes out. It was at the end of the game and the penalty goal would have meant going to extra time.


Right now I don't have time but at another time I will put the videos and images of all the situations that I have commented on.


And to finish I want to ask a question to all users. Madrid all these years has been favored or harmed in Europe?.

Not more or less than any other top club. Well except FC Barcelona, which had absolutely stunning mind-feck matches / situations which cannot be explained as a simple referee mistakes.

The question you should be asking is when will Laporta and Barto add prison time to their CV.