Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

[cotumely]

Yep, they have to offload wages to register new players. So they either convince current players to reduce salaries or play for free, or they sell some players that they don't need anymore to reduce the wage bill.

I read somewhere that Spanish law precludes any enterprise reducing wages to less than 50% of their previous level. Believe that Messi wanted to play for free, or nearly-free, but Barcelona were legally restricted from enacting this.

 

[Niemans]

I think you are doing 1, 2 and 3. Sticking your head in the sand because you don't like the message.

Everyone using common sense knows this doesn't add up. You don't have to know all the information to understand this doesn't add up. It's a public secret Barcelona is in dire straits financially - without knowing all the details. Everyone with a common sense can conclude that selling TV rights for 25 years just to get a quick buck now and then spending it all on players right now is a ludicrous decision. It's not healthy at all and can only backfire, whether that is in 3 years, 10 years or 20 years. It will come back to haunt Barcelona and the conclusion that only the Super League may be the way out of that for Barcelona seems quite a logical conclusion to make.

This is also why Barcelona have been pushing the Super League so much, purely in self interest. Then they blame the world world for their problems and say it's the only way out. It is not the only way out. If your financial situation is awful, what you do is you sell all your players and form a team within the your financial possibilities. That's how it works in a normal world. Barcelona refuses to live in a normal world and then when financially doesn't work anymore (which anyone could have predicted), they start to lash out at everything and everyone, blaming all their problems on anyone else but themselves. It is ridiculous.

What @Bluelion7 said actually makes a lot of sense. He's given a reason why there are no in debt articles about it, which also makes a lot of sense. I am no financial specialist, but have some basic knowledge about it, which also adds up to the points raised. If Barcelona has debts with an American bank, it's very likely this debt is measured in dollars. Americans don't care about Euro's, they want their dollars back. Not saying they would never accept a lone which is then measured in Euro's, but in that case the conditions would be less favourable, because it's a more risky deal from banks point of view.

You just don't want to see it, because you prefer to be ignorant. However, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it'd be wise to consider that it may actually be a duck.

The same as always, I give information and other times MY OPINION based on that information, in a respectful way and without messing with anyone. And I receive answers like yours, disrespecting and without giving any information.

It happened last year when people here said that Barcelona could not sign in the summer and I gave them data and explained how the FFP worked in Spain.I told them that Barcelona could sign under certain circumstances. They told me things like the ones you're telling me right now. What happened?? Well, Barcelona even made signings in winter like F. Torres and Auba.

The same when they said that Barcelona was going to sell Frenkie De Jong for €60M. And exactly the same thing also happened when they said that Barcelona was obliged to sell before June 30. I told them that it was not so and explained the subject of the levers. Again, what happened? FdJ is going to be worth more than €60M euros and Barcelona did not sell it before June 30.

And with this matter the same.

 

[Niemans]

I read somewhere that Spanish law precludes any enterprise reducing wages to less than 50% of their previous level. Believe that Messi wanted to play for free, or nearly-free, but Barcelona were legally restricted from enacting this.

It is the FFP of Spain. You can pay a player whatever you want, but for FFP accounting purposes the maximum drop is 50%.

A player of yours has a contract of €20M euros per year. You lower it to €5M. The FFP accounts for €10M.

 

[cyberman]

What was the end deal here? Make deals and then talk them into waiting? Bit arrogant if you ask me

 

[Rnd898]

They are such a stupid club. I could somewhat understand selling off a portion of the future earnings to ease the debt a little bit, but to sell them off to buy new players for huge amounts and wages is ridiculous. Why can't they just trust their impressive academy pipeline and rebuild slowly for a few years while they get their house in order?

Because according to the Barcelona fans who write here, the club will lose all their fans and nobody will go to the games anymore if they're not competitive, resulting in a vicious cycle of mediocrity where it's impossible to rise back from.

If that's even remotely close to the truth, their glory hunting fans are just as scum as the club itself. Mes que un club indeed.

 

[youmeletsfly]

Because according to the Barcelona fans who write here, the club will lose all their fans and nobody will go to the games anymore if they're not competitive, resulting in a vicious cycle of mediocrity where it's impossible to rise back from.

If that's even remotely close to the truth, their glory hunting fans are just as scum as the club itself. Mes que un club indeed.

One thing I'm glad off is the oil money that Barca got quite a while ago(before City were even a thing) didn't help them to jack shit.

But to have a debt of a billion, go as far as selling assets north of a billion for an immediate injection of cash that you'll use to worsen the situation is fecking daft, no matter how good the accountants are.

In plain English, Barca threw the kitchen sink for next season, hoping they'll win LaLiga and go far in the UCL to get some more revenue and extra sponsors in. If they'll have a horrendous season again, they're fecked.

In regards to the bolded part, it's kinda true, from various points of view. Barca fans are like United's of old but more entitled to success, especially since they're catalans (please don't understand this the wrong way) and catalans are very proud people and always with the "alone against everyone" mentality. My honest opinion on the people from that region can't be expressed here without people freaking out, but let's say that, after living around the area for two years, I easily prefer scouse delusion to catalans, 100%.

Mas que un club.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Because according to the Barcelona fans who write here, the club will lose all their fans and nobody will go to the games anymore if they're not competitive, resulting in a vicious cycle of mediocrity where it's impossible to rise back from. If that's even remotely close to the truth, their glory hunting fans are just as scum as the club itself. Mes que un club indeed.

It is now bad for clubs to increase their fanbase via success, or so a fan of Chelsea football club informs us.

 

[Red&Black]

if my milan can do it, barcelona can do it with much more ease. we had a 6-7yr setback between late reign silvio and his transfer to a shady ownership. shouldve bounced back in 3-4yrs tops, instead of over a decade.

the path their taking is ridiculous to watch, even more ridiculous to see it be allowed to happen. and then it is compounded and made even more infuriating by listening to their president speak so freely about players under contract with other clubs.

 

[Brophs]

Guys, why don’t we all pull some magical financial levers in our own lives to make untold riches? I’m going to sell one of my kidneys, albeit I will absolutely refuse to accept that it will make me any weaker or susceptible to issues in the future. It’s like free money!

 

[Bluelion7]

The same as always, I give information and other times MY OPINION based on that information, in a respectful way and without messing with anyone. And I receive answers like yours, disrespecting and without giving any information.

It happened last year when people here said that Barcelona could not sign in the summer and I gave them data and explained how the FFP worked in Spain.I told them that Barcelona could sign under certain circumstances. They told me things like the ones you're telling me right now. What happened?? Well, Barcelona even made signings in winter like F. Torres and Auba.

The same when they said that Barcelona was going to sell Frenkie De Jong for €60M. And exactly the same thing also happened when they said that Barcelona was obliged to sell before June 30. I told them that it was not so and explained the subject of the levers. Again, what happened? FdJ is going to be worth more than €60M euros and Barcelona did not sell it before June 30.

And with this matter the same.

Just because people don’t write something in the type of articles sports journos use doesn’t make it mere “opinion”. A few months ago Sachs made their first venture into a major bitcoin-based loan. If you want to read THAT article to understand what I’m talking about feel free. They accept bitcoin, Euros, etc as collateral, but ALL their loans are backed in USD. Nobody would write an article about it, because it is like writing an article on sport and explicitly detailing people need to breathe air. Barca used their TV rights and other assets as collateral, but they have to meet a valuation in Dollars.

And I’m telling you Barca doesn’t care. They genuinely believe the teams involved have no choice but to eventually follow through with the Super League, and that that will solve everything. There are TONS of articles detailing the fact that they still believe this as recently as this May.

No Super league, and the team will be in an even deeper hole than under the last administration.

 

[cyberman]

It is now bad for clubs to increase their fanbase via success, or so a fan of Chelsea football club informs us.

Success is less important these days, it’s playing the correct way and being entertaining week on week.
EPL clubs have surged in popularity and we only crown 1 league champion per year

 

[GinobiliTheGOAT]

Aren't the Barca fans a little worried about all this spending?

Honestly, I don't trust much of what Laporta says. However, they turned down a CVC deal that was for 50 years which many La Liga teams signed up for. I genuinely think the Club will be successful enough with generating revenue that Barca will be fine in the long run. It's one of the biggest clubs in the world with a massive following. I just wish there was more transparency with what is going on, because there are so many different things said. But because it is Barca there's a lot more anti BS being written as well. When Xavi had this squad on a 16 game win streak everyone was completely changing their tune on this forum and they'll do so again if Barca has a good season again. But it's understandable. If a club you don't like seem to be sinking then of course you'll enjoy it from afar. I just don't think this is the case with Barca. But there is a ton of pressure on Laporta to have this team deliver a league trophy at the very least.

Still think we need to shore up our full backs and GK.

 

[kouroux]

I can understand that money for Lewandowski but for Raphina ?? Not enough is talked about the money they spent on Ferran Torres either for my liking

 

[GinobiliTheGOAT]

What was the end deal here? Make deals and then talk them into waiting? Bit arrogant if you ask me

They signed Lewa and Raphinha so clearly they think they'll have the money. The financial has much more to do with complying with La Liga's FFP than lack of actual money

 

[HTG]

What was the end deal here? Make deals and then talk them into waiting? Bit arrogant if you ask me

More deluded than arrogant.

 

[HTG]

I get the Argument some of their fans are making, that they need some form of investment in order to remain competitive and draw fans into the stadium and all. This is definitely something of importance.
But the truth is also, that we currently live in economical turmoil and it’s liking going to get worse. And in times like these, people will cut back on luxuries. And things like jerseys or tickets for games are a luxury.
And I firmly believe that it is completely deluded to believe that buying all these players, will ensure that Barca don’t lose out on that income. Buying Raphinha or Lewandowski will hardly make it more likely for some average joe in Spain to visit a Barca game or buy a jersey. They are not going to have more money to spend on Barca, just because they bought Raphinha. Inflation doesn’t go away because of this.
So deluding themselves into believing this kind of income can actually remain constant or even increase, is a recipe for disaster.
They simply need to cut back for some years until they are financially healthy again.
And they better start to be honest towards their fans. Because they will only be understanding and supportive, if you seek out their understanding and support. But going on like this, the fans will be really pissed if this doesn’t work out.

 

[RU Devil]

More like this

 

[do.ob]

I get the Argument some of their fans are making, that they need some form of investment in order to remain competitive and draw fans into the stadium and all. This is definitely something of importance.
But the truth is also, that we currently live in economical turmoil and it’s liking going to get worse. And in times like these, people will cut back on luxuries. And things like jerseys or tickets for games are a luxury.
And I firmly believe that it is completely deluded to believe that buying all these players, will ensure that Barca don’t lose out on that income. Buying Raphinha or Lewandowski will hardly make it more likely for some average joe in Spain to visit a Barca game or buy a jersey. They are not going to have more money to spend on Barca, just because they bought Raphinha. Inflation doesn’t go away because of this.
So deluding themselves into believing this kind of income can actually remain constant or even increase, is a recipe for disaster.
They simply need to cut back for some years until they are financially healthy again.
And they better start to be honest towards their fans. Because they will only be understanding and supportive, if you seek out their understanding and support. But going on like this, the fans will be really pissed if this doesn’t work out.

Even without the ongoing inflation I would say it's mad to try to solve your financial problems by buying players. Even the best window on paper doesn't guarantee you a league title, let alone good results in something as random as the CL. Time and time again you see clubs spend big with little return, e.g. Real Madrid failing in the first knockout round about 6 years in a row in the 00s, Juventus signing Ronaldo to push for a CL, Man United fans thinking signing Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane would make them title contenders, Man City being a bit shit in the CL for about the first €1.5bn they spent. Barca themselves even.

 

[Charles Miller]

Under Xavi they reached 53 league points versus Real Madrid 56 in the same period. Its not absurd to think they could win the league now and change the environment of the club.

 

[SirReginald]

Under Xavi they reached 53 league points versus Real Madrid 56 in the same period. Its not absurd to think they could win the league now and change the environment of the club.

It’s not going to even dent the colossal hole they find themselves in. Hence why many many people have consistently stated that they should have consolidated, refinanced and built up again with the help of their incredible young talent. There’s really no argument, this short termism is going to ruin them.

 

[Rnd898]

It is now bad for clubs to increase their fanbase via success, or so a fan of Chelsea football club informs us.

Oh I definitely understand the concept of success breeding new fans. What I don't get is why previously loyal and passionate fans would all of a sudden stop supporting their club if they're not winning every trophy out there for a few years because the club decided to do the financially responsible thing of having a sensible re-build. They'd still easily finish top 4 to qualify to the CL for extra revenue and within a few years they'd be in a much healthier position overall.

Perhaps I'm just not familiar enough with the Spanish culture and they're more fair weather fans than elsewhere?

And even with all their reckless squad investment, it's hardly guaranteed they'll be successful anyway so it's a massive gamble to take on the future of their club. Sure getting players like Raphinha and Lewandowski will increase their chances of winning the big trophies but with or without them Real Madrid are still going to be heavy favorites for the domestic title and winning the UCL is more or less a long shot for even the best teams out there.

 

[Daslogisch]

I get the Argument some of their fans are making, that they need some form of investment in order to remain competitive and draw fans into the stadium and all. This is definitely something of importance.
But the truth is also, that we currently live in economical turmoil and it’s liking going to get worse. And in times like these, people will cut back on luxuries. And things like jerseys or tickets for games are a luxury.
And I firmly believe that it is completely deluded to believe that buying all these players, will ensure that Barca don’t lose out on that income. Buying Raphinha or Lewandowski will hardly make it more likely for some average joe in Spain to visit a Barca game or buy a jersey. They are not going to have more money to spend on Barca, just because they bought Raphinha. Inflation doesn’t go away because of this.
So deluding themselves into believing this kind of income can actually remain constant or even increase, is a recipe for disaster.
They simply need to cut back for some years until they are financially healthy again.
And they better start to be honest towards their fans. Because they will only be understanding and supportive, if you seek out their understanding and support. But going on like this, the fans will be really pissed if this doesn’t work out.

Well said.

 

[Charles Miller]

It’s not going to even dent the colossal hole they find themselves in. Hence why many many people have consistently stated that they should have consolidated, refinanced and built up again with the help of their incredible young talent. There’s really no argument, this short termism is going to ruin them.

A football club is not like a normal company. They exist on the expectations of their fans. Saving money, paying your debts is a more conservative and recommendable way to fix their problems, but its not the only way. When thngs are going well there is a lot of sweat capital that can't be measured.

 

[Oly Francis]

It’s not going to even dent the colossal hole they find themselves in. Hence why many many people have consistently stated that they should have consolidated, refinanced and built up again with the help of their incredible young talent. There’s really no argument, this short termism is going to ruin them.

It's not a relevant analysis though, Real Madrid was miles ahead and played the CL until the end, it was totally fine for them to drop points and save a bit of stamina for the end of the season when Barcelona had nothing left to play.

 

[Maluco]

Spending now to increase competitiveness is the way forward.

This board don’t want to be seen as the board that won nothing, even if it is for the good of the club. The want the glory today, and it’s going to cost the club tomorrow.

I just can’t get over signing Raphinha for that much money when you owe current employees so much. It’s morally reprehensible. They are a disgrace.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

But the truth is also, that we currently live in economical turmoil and it’s liking going to get worse. And in times like these, people will cut back on luxuries. And things like jerseys or tickets for games are a luxury.

The Spanish economy was complete crap when Guardiola managed Barcelona and Messi was winning Ballon d'ors left and right, as far as I recall they did not have serious attendance or revenue issues. The product was probably worth it.

What I don't get is why previously loyal and passionate fans would all of a sudden stop supporting their club if they're not winning every trophy out there for a few years because the club decided to do the financially responsible thing of having a sensible re-build. They'd still easily finish top 4 to qualify to the CL for extra revenue and within a few years they'd be in a much healthier position overall.

I would guess that the cost of the tickets is too high for what the club is delivering on the pitch, therefore it's not really worth it. They could drop the cost, yes, but then you still have the problem of lower revenues.

 

[Pretzels81]

Apparently, by 2022, many folks are discovering that the vast majority of big clubs have debt (and so does the USA); funny that nobody seemed to notice/care before the rise of the oil clubs PSG/City; suddenly every bloke is an expert in macroeconomics, predictions, and club management.

The clubs that don't have debt are midtable or are partially owned by several companies, like Bayern.

Barcelona will live with debt for the next 20 years, and that's ok, as long as they get rid of the overpaid deadwood (Cou already gone) and keep winning trophies. That has to be Laporta's strategy for 2022-2026.

 

[Acrobat7]

Apparently, by 2022, many folks are discovering that the vast majority of big clubs have debt (and so does the USA); funny that nobody seemed to notice/care before the rise of the oil clubs PSG/City; suddenly every bloke is an expert in macroeconomics, predictions, and club management.

The clubs that don't have debt are midtable or are partially owned by several companies, like Bayern.

Barcelona will live with debt for the next 20 years, and that's ok, as long as they get rid of the overpaid deadwood (Cou already gone) and keep winning trophies. That has to be Laporta's strategy for 2022-2026.

No, they are betting on the European Super League (or whatever it is called).

 

[Rnd898]

I would guess that the cost of the tickets is too high for what the club is delivering on the pitch, therefore it's not really worth it. They could drop the cost, yes, but then you still have the problem of lower revenues.

Gotcha. So plenty of entitled fair weather fans like I guessed in my previous post.

For comparison, the club whose forum we're on right now have been a mess for almost a decade now without truly competing for the PL title or UCL trophy for a long time now. Yet sponsors still pay premium rates to advertise with them and the stadium is full every game despite ticket prices not being exactly cheap there either.

But yeah, mes que un club and all that.

 

[Bluelion7]

The Spanish economy was complete crap when Guardiola managed Barcelona and Messi was winning Ballon d'ors left and right, as far as I recall they did not have serious attendance or revenue issues. The product was probably worth it.

This is the mistaken assumption being made I think: that everything was great and wonderful in the glory days and then Covid hit.

I said in a previous post this was predictable years before Covid. This is a debt and mismanagement can that was kicked down the road for years. The issues they face were easily predictable 5 years ago. The problem is structure: if a private company is run like a government full of politicians, it would fail spectacularly. That’s Exactly what Barca is.

“Barcelona is still special, players will lose money to be here”

- Jordi Cruyff

Problem is it’s players NOT with Barcelona in many cases who are owed back wages, no?

Im sure the “but we have to remain competitive!” cries then beg the question: “why?” Why is it imperative to all of football that Barcelona is good? To the point where players don’t get paid, banks could be defrauded, and people look the other way as they continue to push the Superleague?

 

[cyberman]

They paid Lewas agent 20m to facilitate the deal. That’s insane, it’s an extra 50 percent on top for an agent alone

 

[Niemans]

This is the mistaken assumption being made I think: that everything was great and wonderful in the glory days and then Covid hit.

I said in a previous post this was predictable years before Covid. This is a debt and mismanagement can that was kicked down the road for years. The issues they face were easily predictable 5 years ago. The problem is structure: if a private company is run like a government full of politicians, it would fail spectacularly. That’s Exactly what Barca is.

“Barcelona is still special, players will lose money to be here”

- Jordi Cruyff

Problem is it’s players NOT with Barcelona in many cases who are owed back wages, no?

Im sure the “but we have to remain competitive!” cries then beg the question: “why?” Why is it imperative to all of football that Barcelona is good? To the point where players don’t get paid, banks could be defrauded, and people look the other way as they continue to push the Superleague?

Barcelona 5 years ago had a solid economy. It all came when PSG bought Neymar.
There bartomeu went crazy and began to make exorbitant renovations.

You can look up Barcelona's net debt year after year, wage bill and percentage of wage bill expenditure in proportion to income.

I already put it earlier in this thread.

Barcelona when they didn't pay their players?
Barcelona has always paid and if they don't they are relegated.

 

[Niemans]

They paid Lewas agent 20m to facilitate the deal. That’s insane, it’s an extra 50 percent on top for an agent alone

There he says that he asked, not that he has been paid that.

 

[Tacitus56AD]

There he says that he asked, not that he has been paid that.

I thought you guys knew Pini Zahavi this well, he`ll probably do it for free, right?

 

[cyberman]

There he says that he asked, not that he has been paid that.

I’m reading Barca fans explain it on another forum and he’s getting 5m a year for as long as Lewa stays at Barcelona.
It’s mind boggling.

 

[Niemans]

I’m reading Barca fans explain it on another forum and he’s getting 5m a year for as long as Lewa stays at Barcelona.
It’s mind boggling.

I'm just saying that that tweet doesn't say Barcelona paid that amount.

 

[FootballHQ]

Because according to the Barcelona fans who write here, the club will lose all their fans and nobody will go to the games anymore if they're not competitive, resulting in a vicious cycle of mediocrity where it's impossible to rise back from.

If that's even remotely close to the truth, their glory hunting fans are just as scum as the club itself. Mes que un club indeed.

Half their match going attendance is pretty much tourists. You saw the attendances drop off a bit when coming back from covid due to travel restrictions. I think they'll always attract a good proportion who are in Barca for a weekend city break and fancy watching them.

TBF 18 months ago I did think they were in serious trouble. Messi gone, trying to get likes of Umtiti out and De Jong and Brathwaite upfront. Under Koeman they'd probably have finished 6th or 7th but Xavi was inspired appointment in fairness.

If they can finish top 4 comfortably with all those issues I can't see them doing worse with one of best current strikers around and really good depth now in final third so dropping into europa shouldn't be an issue for foreseeable future.

How's the redevelopment of Camp Nou going? Is that still scheduled to take place over next few years as another money no object project or will it be stalled?

 

[Niemans]

Half their match going attendance is pretty much tourists. You saw the attendances drop off a bit when coming back from covid due to travel restrictions. I think they'll always attract a good proportion who are in Barca for a weekend city break and fancy watching them.

TBF 18 months ago I did think they were in serious trouble. Messi gone, trying to get likes of Umtiti out and De Jong and Brathwaite upfront. Under Koeman they'd probably have finished 6th or 7th but Xavi was inspired appointment in fairness.

If they can finish top 4 comfortably with all those issues I can't see them doing worse with one of best current strikers around and really good depth now in final third so dropping into europa shouldn't be an issue for foreseeable future.

How's the redevelopment of Camp Nou going? Is that still scheduled to take place over next few years as another money no object project or will it be stalled?

Work on the stadium begins this summer.

 

[Bluelion7]

Barcelona 5 years ago had a solid economy. It all came when PSG bought Neymar.
There bartomeu went crazy and began to make exorbitant renovations.

You can look up Barcelona's net debt year after year, wage bill and percentage of wage bill expenditure in proportion to income.

I already put it earlier in this thread.

Barcelona when they didn't pay their players?
Barcelona has always paid and if they don't they are relegated.

No they did not. They are billions underwater, the way the money was being managed at the top was horrible, and bloated contracts were starting to bury them. People seem to think this is all “Covid” … which is NOT true. Barca was a pivotal force trying to form the super league in the background for a reason. Even SPAIN, as a country was in bad shape, you had talk of Catalonia trying for secession.

The idea that Barca was a well run club victimized by a pandemic is a myth.

 

[Niemans]

No they did not. They are billions underwater, the way the money was being managed at the top was horrible, and bloated contracts were starting to bury them. People seem to think this is all “Covid” … which is NOT true. Barca was a pivotal force trying to form the super league in the background for a reason. Even SPAIN, as a country was in bad shape, you had talk of Catalonia trying for secession.

The idea that Barca was a well run club victimized by a pandemic is a myth.

I said it started after Neymar's signing for PSG in the 2017 season. Bartomeu started with very high salaries for all players.

You can see the economic balances of each season. They are on the Barcelona website.