Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

When you see Barcelona's financial situation, there's no possible way they can survive if they continue what they're doing.

Unless they have an ace up their sleeve, which will mostly likely be some form of breakaway league/Super League again. They wouldn't be willingly walking towards disaster if they didn't have some end game plan.
 
How are the Spanish FA allowing them to sign players when they owe current players wages.
It's simply ridiculous.
 
Silverman said:
How are the Spanish FA allowing them to sign players when they owe current players wages.
It's simply ridiculous.
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Because they legally owe them money, it's not a situation where Barcelona missed payments, players agreed on deferred compensations. Also as far as I know the only country where there is an administration that can prevent a club from acquiring(not just registering) players is France, Platini initially proposed the same organisation at the UEFA level but everyone else refused.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
It's all about opinions eh? :)
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there are two related but different things. One is the la liga salary cap and the other is the financial health of the club.

The Barca management has to have a plan how to navigate the salary cap; it might involve bending the rules and short-term thinking, but I don't believe that they are going to buy any expensive players that they can't register in the end. It would be too stupid and it would also destroy their own standing at the club. Reading through the lines, the salary cap will be adjusted to fit their needs after all their "lever" crap, especially if they sell FdJ and/or Memphis. There is obviously a chance, that this goes wrong, but we'd see the consequences of this very soon and it would probably be the end of Laporta.

Long term, Barca is certainly in some danger. These "levers" are an expensive way to re-finance part of the debt. No club would do that if there are alternatives. Yet, Barca still has one of the highest revenues in club football and that counts for a lot. Its certainly very risky and financially irresponsible, but the narrative, that Barca is is going to go bust soon, is exaggerated. to answer his questions
1) that would be really bad, but its unlikely. 2) there is nothing to fight 3) there was a 10% cut and its hard to believe that there will be anymore; barca will cope with it 4) nothing; getting rid of Umtiti is essentially irrelevant at this point 5) It remains to be seen if Barca absolutely have to sell him to create space for new signings or if they have alternatives, but if this deal is vital for them, its going to be done.
Only missing top4 would get them in serious trouble. Unfortunately, they are not the only club in la liga that gamble(d) on top4 finishes to stay afloat (Valencia/Atletico Madrid have done or are doing the same). Its pretty insane, but thats apparently what their fans want.
 
Red&Black said:
What in tarnation are you even tyring to get at with this?
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A user told me that Madrid had a much better team than Barcelona and gave me as an example that they had players like Tchouameni and Camavinga on the bench.

And I told him that Tchouameni is going to be a starter throughout the season and that to my Camavinga it doesn't seem as much as people say.
 
Niemans said:
And I told him that Tchouameni is going to be a starter throughout the season and that to my Camavinga it doesn't seem as much as people say.
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If I had my choice of both players, today, Id take camavinga. I mean that, too. Both great players, but Camavinga just has something reaaaally special.
 
PedroMendez said:
there are two related but different things. One is the la liga salary cap and the other is the financial health of the club.

The Barca management has to have a plan how to navigate the salary cap; it might involve bending the rules and short-term thinking, but I don't believe that they are going to buy any expensive players that they can't register in the end. It would be too stupid and it would also destroy their own standing at the club. Reading through the lines, the salary cap will be adjusted to fit their needs after all their "lever" crap, especially if they sell FdJ and/or Memphis. There is obviously a chance, that this goes wrong, but we'd see the consequences of this very soon and it would probably be the end of Laporta.

Long term, Barca is certainly in some danger. These "levers" are an expensive way to re-finance part of the debt. No club would do that if there are alternatives. Yet, Barca still has one of the highest revenues in club football and that counts for a lot. Its certainly very risky and financially irresponsible, but the narrative, that Barca is is going to go bust soon, is exaggerated. to answer his questions
1) that would be really bad, but its unlikely. 2) there is nothing to fight 3) there was a 10% cut and its hard to believe that there will be anymore; barca will cope with it 4) nothing; getting rid of Umtiti is essentially irrelevant at this point 5) It remains to be seen if Barca absolutely have to sell him to create space for new signings or if they have alternatives, but if this deal is vital for them, its going to be done.
Only missing top4 would get them in serious trouble. Unfortunately, they are not the only club in la liga that gamble(d) on top4 finishes to stay afloat (Valencia/Atletico Madrid have done or are doing the same). Its pretty insane, but thats apparently what their fans want.
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I’ll trust you with the detail, I don’t look at it that much, more an interested bystander hoping they fail (partly because of who they are and partly as could make football sector revise plans… though I doubt it even if Barca went under).

One thing I would say to “Barca still has one of the highest revenues in club football and that counts for a lot” is what my first manager in Corporate Banking said to me many, many years ago…. turnover is vanity, profit is sanity, cash flow is king.

They can sell off future income streams to support cash flow but that‘s finite and usually comes back to bite you unless your model MATERIALLY changes and more than compensates for the ‘lost’ (sold) income.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Fingers crossed they go under (awful club/fans playing real life FIFA.)

Obviously AFTER they've sold us de Jong (and we don't pay a euro more than price already agreed).
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This I don't understand, they're a huge club with a great history and they matter to millions of fans all over the world. I find this stance really strange.
 
Seems like unless they pull off some miraculous La Liga/Cl double this year PLUS all the other stars align for them, we're going to be right back here at the end of the season but substantially worse. I really think they're going to end up having to sell the club into private ownership at some point.
 
Kentonio said:
Seems like unless they pull off some miraculous La Liga/Cl double this year PLUS all the other stars align for them, we're going to be right back here at the end of the season but substantially worse. I really think they're going to end up having to sell the club into private ownership at some point.
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What information do you have that makes you think that?
 
Kentonio said:
Seems like unless they pull off some miraculous La Liga/Cl double this year PLUS all the other stars align for them, we're going to be right back here at the end of the season but substantially worse. I really think they're going to end up having to sell the club into private ownership at some point.
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Don’t be stupid, spending 50m on a 34 year old will get them where they need to be.
 
do.ob said:
I still don't understand why Barca don't take it easy for a few years, gradually trim their wage bill and structure to sustainable levels.

You can call it restructuring, but deals like
they aren't exactly careful reform, it's selling away the future for short term gain. Sometimes that may be a necessary bit of breathing room to survive, but doing it so you can sign players like Lewandowski or Rafinha sounds just crazy to me.

Dortmund did the same some 25 years ago, sold the stadium leased it back, sold marketing rights, sold the club logo and then they missed the CL twice and found themselves at the mercy of the authorities and investors.
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Because if they miss out on the championship league, then the board will be out
 
Oly Francis said:
Yes and no since Barcelona can't really weasel out from a legal standpoint, FdJ has the right to say he wants to enforce his contract in full and won't leave.

But I agree with you, Barcelona can put pressure pretending they will bench him forever (they won't) if he stays and even if he can technically say now, he cannot really do that as the club will probably launch a huge PR campaign Bartomeu style to make sure everybody hates him.
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the problem is that when it comes to actually paying the deferred part, they’ll probably try to re-sign messi and expect everyone else to wait another year or two until they really definitely will 100% I promise for real have the money then.

the PR spin can easily turn against a player but you know what you are signing up for when you sign for Barca so that shouldn’t be a surprise for anyone.
piquet must be sweating over his £40m at this rate they’ll be paying his estate £5m a year after he dies at 85 years old…….
 
arthurka said:
This I don't understand, they're a huge club with a great history and they matter to millions of fans all over the world. I find this stance really strange.
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Each to their own eh?

I don't care about their millions of fans around the world (or fans of other clubs full stop).

To me, they present this image (literally) that they're something special and unique when they've lived way beyond their means, are selling off future income streams, buying players while expecting existing players to change their contracts ... so they can keep buying new players.

I don't know one fan in my match going and non match going mates (including fans of several other clubs) who likes them. Again, each to their own eh?
 
arthurka said:
This I don't understand, they're a huge club with a great history and they matter to millions of fans all over the world. I find this stance really strange.
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Part of me looks at what happened to leeds 20 years ago and how football just moved on and didn't really care and thinks it would be the same for barca. I mean look at ac milan, bigger club in most regards and one i cared for a hell of a lot more. I haven't exactly been distraught at them dropping to a lower level. I guess football is poorer for the weakness of the italian league but ... i dont know, someone else tends to pick up the slack, great teams are formed elsewhere, great players and managers still exist.
On the other hand you could probably make a decent argument that football is eating itself and the last 20 years have been utterly ruinous to the long term health of the game and I dont think i'd argue too much. I'm just not sure i care about barca specifically.
 
a couple of things that get me.....

You sign Kessie and Christensen but can't register them yet because of your current financial situation? why are you allowed to sign them at all if you can't register them?

The Raphinha deal isn't done yet he's doing interviews already with Barca TV??

in order for them to actually meet wages and skirt the Spanish FFP issue, they have to sell another 15% this summer of their future TV rights. Again, how is this good business for them going forward?
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Each to their own eh?

I don't care about their millions of fans around the world (or fans of other clubs full stop).

To me, they present this image (literally) that they're something special and unique when they've lived way beyond their means, are selling off future income streams, buying players while expecting existing players to change their contracts ... so they can keep buying new players.

I don't know one fan in my match going and non match going mates (including fans of several other clubs) who likes them. Again, each to their own eh?
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I agree with everything you said here and I have huge problem personally with their holier than thou attitude in general. But I have a bit of sympathy for them, they are kind of victims to the past and the success they had.

With all the money doping clubs coming at a similar time that Barca had one of the best teams of all times. Real being state backed to a certain degree and all that, no teams these days can be run without getting drowned in debt and that even though you are in the PL. Bayern is the only team that seems to stand a chance but they have a monopoly to the largest domestic market of quality players. Oil and Russian retirement funds changed everything and for everyone so it is not fully like Leeds, they are betting the future of the club on having constant success and future top income.

Like you them buying all these players like nothing is happening bothers me, they owe teams, players and institutes a lot of money but somehow they keep spending what they don't own. But for me it is a sad reminder of the state of football in general and the sad part is more teams will go down this path before something drastic will be done.

caid said:
Part of me looks at what happened to leeds 20 years ago and how football just moved on and didn't really care and thinks it would be the same for barca. I mean look at ac milan, bigger club in most regards and one i cared for a hell of a lot more. I haven't exactly been distraught at them dropping to a lower level. I guess football is poorer for the weakness of the italian league but ... i dont know, someone else tends to pick up the slack, great teams are formed elsewhere, great players and managers still exist.
On the other hand you could probably make a decent argument that football is eating itself and the last 20 years have been utterly ruinous to the long term health of the game and I dont think i'd argue too much. I'm just not sure i care about barca specifically.
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I fully agree, for me this isn't only a Barca issue. The game is in a very bad place and I don't see where this is going to stop. It's just the beginning of a much bigger problem. So I can't have much fun with it.
 
Sell 100% of your TV rights, Barca, be the first club ever not to own their TV rights.
 
arthurka said:
But for me it is a sad reminder of the state of football in general and the sad part is more teams will go down this path before something drastic will be done.
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I really don't see a trend here. If you look at the number of English clubs for example that have gone into administration, there have been 8 in the last 10 years. In the 10 years before that it was 35. The 10 years before that it was 20.
Clubs seem better run now if anything with the financial rules as they are.

The problem seems to be Spain and their bizarre approach to club finances, and the bizarre ego-trip Barca and Madrid seem to have going on. At least Madrid seem to be able to find ways to pay what they owe.
 
Kentonio said:
I really don't see a trend here. If you look at the number of English clubs for example that have gone into administration, there have been 8 in the last 10 years. In the 10 years before that it was 35. The 10 years before that it was 20.
Clubs seem better run now if anything with the financial rules as they are.

The problem seems to be Spain and their bizarre approach to club finances, and the bizarre ego-trip Barca and Madrid seem to have going on. At least Madrid seem to be able to find ways to pay what they owe.
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In general debt has been increasing in football and the clubs in Italy have also been badly hit by this. Even in England debt is rising even though the PL generates much more money than the other leagues. Trying to compete with the likes of PSG, City and Chelsea has come at a cost.
 
They can use some of that De Jong fee to finish paying what they owe us for Coutinho.
 
bosskeano said:
a couple of things that get me.....

You sign Kessie and Christensen but can't register them yet because of your current financial situation? why are you allowed to sign them at all if you can't register them?

The Raphinha deal isn't done yet he's doing interviews already with Barca TV??

in order for them to actually meet wages and skirt the Spanish FFP issue, they have to sell another 15% this summer of their future TV rights. Again, how is this good business for them going forward?
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La Liga can’t force Barcelona to be financially prudent, but they can punish them for being idiots is how it is.
 
Kentonio said:
The problem seems to be Spain and their bizarre approach to club finances, and the bizarre ego-trip Barca and Madrid seem to have going on. At least Madrid seem to be able to find ways to pay what they owe.
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Atletico is one of the dodgiest clubs in the world when it comes to finances. If anything goes wrong, they could easily follow Valencia's trajectory. They have lots of unpaid bills to other clubs and players. More than any other european club. People just don't pay attention. Real Madrid's finances are overall fairly solid, while being the most successful club in the world for a while now.

the la liga regulations are a step in the right direction and European football would benefit from adopting something similar, even so its hardly perfect. Its always difficult to adopt these kinds of regulations nationally, when clubs have to compete internationally. There are still way too many dodgy owners/executives in Spain and in the long run the league would benefit from more stringent regulations to prevent some of the most unsavory practices. Yet these figures often promise $$$$, so there is a strong incentive to look the other way.
 
Kentonio said:
I really don't see a trend here. If you look at the number of English clubs for example that have gone into administration, there have been 8 in the last 10 years. In the 10 years before that it was 35. The 10 years before that it was 20.
Clubs seem better run now if anything with the financial rules as they are.

The problem seems to be Spain and their bizarre approach to club finances, and the bizarre ego-trip Barca and Madrid seem to have going on. At least Madrid seem to be able to find ways to pay what they owe.
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Spanish teams are the ones with the least losses in the pandemic of the main leagues. Also with a lot of difference over some leagues like the Premier League.

elmo said:
La Liga can’t force Barcelona to be financially prudent, but they can punish them for being idiots is how it is.
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The Spanish FFP prevents teams from going into debt. If a pandemic comes, little can be done. Even so, the Spanish league is very good economically except for 3-4 teams of the 42 professionals.

Acrobat7 said:
They could sign no one, sell 4 high earners and would still make top 4 in La Liga.
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Who would you have sold to?
 
Klopper76 said:
They can use some of that De Jong fee to finish paying what they owe us for Coutinho.
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Barca spending money they don't have after selling FDJ

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This club is The Walking Dead.

All these quick-fix short-sighted moves will inevitably backfire in a few years.

Bunch of arrogant clowns.
 
What's their XI gonna look like?

Dembele Lewandovski Raphinha
Pedri Busquets Gavi
Alba Christensen Araujo Azpi
Ter Stegen

@Niemans something like this if all goes to plan?
Will Nico be backup to Busquets when you sell De Jong? Kessie is more of a destroyer to pair next to a regista, no?

Are you linked with any LBs, you mentioned Gaya a while ago?

Anderson_7_ said:
This club is The Walking Dead.

All these quick-fix short-sighted moves will inevitably backfire in a few years.

Bunch of arrogant clowns.
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At least they're ambitious.

From what I've read they stand to lose 200 million in the long run in return for 200 million (out of 400 million) up front for selling a percentage of the TV rights.

If financial health would be a primary motivator they wouldn't do this. Xavi proved last year you can be dog shit and still make champions league.
 
Bastian said:
How much do they owe their other players (apart from Frenkie) in deferred wages? Are they hoping they can morally bully them to accept giving the club their money? Is the worry here that if they pay Frenkie what he's owed, the other players will ask for the money they are all owed?
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They owe Pique about £40m, then there are other players like Ter Stegen, Busquets etc. They also owe Messi money still and he is in Paris now so it is a long and expensive list.

However, it is all ok, as they're Barcalona, so marco economics don't apply to them as they'll just grow their way out of problems like Barto predicted.
 
VanDeBank said:
What's their XI gonna look like?

Dembele Lewandovski Raphinha
Pedri Busquets Gavi
Alba Christensen Araujo Azpi
Ter Stegen

@Niemans something like this if all goes to plan?
Will Nico be backup to Busquets when you sell De Jong? Kessie is more of a destroyer to pair next to a regista, no?

Are you linked with any LBs, you mentioned Gaya a while ago?
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T. Stegen
Azpi. Araujo. Kounde. Alba
Pedri. Busquets Gavi
Raphinha Lewa Fati

Xavi has said that he wants to test Nico in Busquets' position. In the first match against a third division opponent he looked very good.

Kessie surprised Xavi in these first trainings, he will be an important player with many minutes in the position of Gavi/Pedri.

The LB Xavi wants is M. Alonso. The case of Gayá is complicated, he may stay one more year in Valencia and next year he is free.

The player I want to see the most is P. Torre, he has incredible potential. He lacks a little resistance but will take it.
Last year at the age of 18 he was the best player of Racing de Santander to climb to the second division.
 
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