Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

Red the Bear said:
The only reason they're going insane in these dealings is Madrid i think, they can't bear languishing in mediocrity while their nemesis just collected another European cup and is poised to steamroll the league next season even if that's better for them in the long term.
So they must get the shiniest new player even if they can't afford him, even if it means practically selling their future.

If this fecks them in the long term it would be one of the biggest indictments against the democratic fan led model that some clubs operate on.
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Why? Since when are privately owned clubs immune to running themselves into the ground?
 
do.ob said:
Why? Since when are privately owned clubs immune to running themselves into the ground?
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True, no model is perfect but for fecks sake they're basically running themselves to the ground for the sake of short term fixes that will only dig their grave deeper.

Their situation isn't conducive to their current model at all as the elected president has all the incentives to look for the aforementioned short term fixes and the supposed big name signings, it's what gotten them to this mess aswell as the man who gives the fans the most ludicrous and unrealistic promises will always triumph.

I'm not denying the many cases of shitty private ownership but I really don't think the situation they're in suits their elective model at all.
 
Dan_F said:
Would also imagine that Real have no intention of helping out with the Super League creation again now. Barca are kidding themselves if they are waiting for that to rescue them.
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It's to be seen as perez seemed keen on the idea as late as their ucl win considering his statements then.

But even then they still would be fecked compared to the other teams, weather's not looking bright for Barcelona at the moment.
 
Red the Bear said:
True, no model is perfect but for fecks sake they're basically running themselves to the ground for the sake of short term fixes that will only dig their grave deeper.

Their situation isn't conducive to their current model at all as the elected president has all the incentives to look for the aforementioned short term fixes and the supposed big name signings, it's what gotten them to this mess aswell as the man who gives the fans the most ludicrous and unrealistic promises will always triumph.

I'm not denying the many cases of shitty private ownership but I really don't think the situation they're in suits their elective model at all.
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Just like any democracy it's the job of journalists to uncover problems and the job of the electorate to act on them and vote the people responsible out if necessary. So this isn't an automatic outcome of the club model, it's the fans failing their club.
 
do.ob said:
Just like any democracy it's the job of journalists to uncover problems and the job of the electorate to act on them and vote the people responsible out if necessary. So this isn't an automatic outcome of the club model, it's the fans failing their club.
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The thing is I don't think clubs should be run like a democracy, i also don't approve the private model either.
I just think clubs just mean too much to their fans and to their local base to risk the worst qualities of democracies on them , ideally there would be a communist like model were clubs are prevented from taking stupid risks that ruin their livelihood and give dismay to their fans, I know it won't be perfect but it just might be better than what we have now.

Also the football base ain't really the best base for practicing democracy to be honest considering that being a fan is more based on emotion and tribalism with little actual info on what's going on in the clubs than cold hard facts (i know a lot of that applies word for word to the actual democratic process but you get my point).
 
Red the Bear said:
Their situation isn't conducive to their current model at all as the elected president has all the incentives to look for the aforementioned short term fixes and the supposed big name signings, it's what gotten them to this mess aswell as the man who gives the fans the most ludicrous and unrealistic promises will always triumph.
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I don't think this is a very good example. Laporta was already elected president once at a time when Barcelona were having serious financial problems. He turned the club's finances around, rebuilt the team, and began a period of enormous success. He was the obvious choice for president on the merits, he's not just some random idiot making ludicrous promises.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
I don't think this is a very good example. Laporta was already elected president once at a time when Barcelona were having serious financial problems. He turned the club's finances around, rebuilt the team, and began a period of enormous success. He was the obvious choice for president on the merits, he's not just some random idiot making ludicrous promises.
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Then why is he acting like this instead of just saying to supporters that they need to act within their means and be frugal for a few years? Also why someone like bartomeu win an election and wreak havoc in there?

Also my memory is shady but I always thought their enormous success was bound to some great happenstance with everything going right at the right time and some huge luck involved (having a goat in Messi and pep being a huge success) instead of anything that laporta did.

Although I admit the fault in my reasoning considering the saying give me lucky generals applies here as well.
 
Red the Bear said:
Also my memory is shady but I always thought their enormous success was bound to some great happenstance with everything going right at the right time and some huge luck involved (having a goat in Messi and pep being a huge success) instead of anything that laporta did.
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Guardiola and world-class Messi were near the end of Laporta's first tenure. His success was in tearing down the old team and rebuilding a new one with Ronaldinho, Deco, Eto'o, etc. and Rijkaard as manager.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Guardiola and world-class Messi were near the end of Laporta's first tenure. His success was in tearing down the old team and rebuilding a new one with Ronaldinho, Deco, Eto'o, etc. and Rijkaard as manager.
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How hard was that in reality? They didn't really consistently dominate till Guardiola came and before that it wasn't really competitive, you lot had a melt down after that galactico project went haywire culminating in perez resigning with other teams not being exactly world beaters.

Also I may be mistaken but I heard some players from that era(pique,xavi for example) talking as if the club didn't really prioritize their homemade products before pep's arrival.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Why does Lewa want to join Barca again? To get deferred salaries?
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winning the German league is meaningless at least la liga also has Real Madrid.
If Barca do manage to get Lewa, Kounde, and raphinha all in the same window that would be the best transfer window of any team this year
 
Escobar said:
So they get some money in to survive and what do they do? Spend most in one window….
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Barca always had money to survive, they just needed to show an increase in money to allow them to register players which is what the loans are for
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Guardiola and world-class Messi were near the end of Laporta's first tenure. His success was in tearing down the old team and rebuilding a new one with Ronaldinho, Deco, Eto'o, etc. and Rijkaard as manager.
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This man knows. Very refreshing to see since most people here are just talking without actually knowing anything about the team or Laporta.
 
GinobiliTheGOAT said:
winning the German league is meaningless at least la liga also has Real Madrid.
If Barca do manage to get Lewa, Kounde, and raphinha all in the same window that would be the best transfer window of any team this year
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Even with those 3, they arent winning La Liga or the CL next year.
 
Niemans said:
Any arguments to debate?
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Debate what? Whether someone who quits whenever they don't get the new shiny toy/player they want is behaving like a spoiled child? Surely that's not debatable?
 
Kentonio said:
Even with those 3, they arent winning La Liga or the CL next year.
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Had a great run this past season and I think it is definitely possible to win the league this coming year. Far better team than last season and a proper pre season with Xavi should help. No chance with CL though.
 
desertegil said:
Debate what? Whether someone who quits whenever they don't get the new shiny toy/player they want is behaving like a spoiled child? Surely that's not debatable?
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Barcelona is rebuilding the squad, that's what the teams do. They have lost important players the last 2 years and this year and next they may lose FDJ, Piqué, Alba, Busquets...

Bayern has 10 leagues in a row and signs Mane and is negotiating for De Ligt, in addition to the 2 Ajax players. They haven't behaved like spoiled child? And Juve? City? Chelsea?
 
Niemans said:
Barcelona is rebuilding the squad, that's what the teams do. They have lost important players the last 2 years and this year and next they may lose FDJ, Piqué, Alba, Busquets...

Bayern has 10 leagues in a row and signs Mane and is negotiating for De Ligt, in addition to the 2 Ajax players. They haven't behaved like spoiled child? And Juve? City? Chelsea?
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Bayern has now about 30 or more years in a row that they ended with a profit... even during Corona...

City and Chelsea do not have money problems...
 
Blackwidow said:
Bayern has now about 30 or more years in a row that they ended with a profit... even during Corona...

City and Chelsea do not have money problems...
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Signings can be whims, with more money or less money.
And Barcelona are rebuilding the team. There are good links about the situation of Barcelona. That way people can understand.
 
GinobiliTheGOAT said:
Interesting article:

https://barcabuzz.com/2022/07/whats-true-and-whats-not-about-the-fc-barcelona-financial-status
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Article from a Barca fan site and which tries to describe a 5% drop in income as something that isn't important and that 'hey every club has debts!'. Yeah, that's a pretty silly article. Basically it claims to address the concerns people have raised here, but then laughs them off. It doesn't really give any actual solid reasons why those concerns aren't valid other than 'we'll make lots of money later, we're Barca'.
 
Kentonio said:
Article from a Barca fan site and which tries to describe a 5% drop in income as something that isn't important and that 'hey every club has debts!'. Yeah, that's a pretty silly article. Basically it claims to address the concerns people have raised here, but then laughs them off. It doesn't really give any actual solid reasons why those concerns aren't valid other than 'we'll make lots of money later, we're Barca'.
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https://www.espn.in/football/barcel...-players-while-chasing-more-stars-this-summer
 
Their refusal to learn from their mistakes is genuinely admirable.
 
Niemans said:
https://www.espn.in/football/barcel...-players-while-chasing-more-stars-this-summer
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Excellent article - would encourage people to read.

It's easy to sit there and bemoan the fact Barcelona are in supposed financial peril and still signing top players, however this article really sheds a light on exactly what their strategy is to deal with their complex debt issues, and it's one that practically any business in the world would take when faced with nearly insurmountable debt - re-finance it longer term to enable you to continue operating successfully in the short-term.

If any club found a solution to paying off debt that meant they could avoid selling all their best players they would take it and that's exactly what Barca are doing with these 'economic levers' as they like to call them. They've found a way to meet their financial obligations still but whilst trying to remain as competitive as they have for the last 20 years which is totally understandable.
 
Kentonio said:
Article from a Barca fan site and which tries to describe a 5% drop in income as something that isn't important and that 'hey every club has debts!'. Yeah, that's a pretty silly article. Basically it claims to address the concerns people have raised here, but then laughs them off. It doesn't really give any actual solid reasons why those concerns aren't valid other than 'we'll make lots of money later, we're Barca'.
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Here’s a better one then:

https://www.espn.com/soccer/barcelona-espbarcelona/story/4697467/barcelona-finan?linkId=172998683
 
DannyCAFC said:
Excellent article - would encourage people to read.

It's easy to sit there and bemoan the fact Barcelona are in supposed financial peril and still signing top players, however this article really sheds a light on exactly what their strategy is to deal with their complex debt issues, and it's one that practically any business in the world would take when faced with nearly insurmountable debt - re-finance it longer term to enable you to continue operating successfully in the short-term.

If any club found a solution to paying off debt that meant they could avoid selling all their best players they would take it and that's exactly what Barca are doing with these 'economic levers' as they like to call them. They've found a way to meet their financial obligations still but whilst trying to remain as competitive as they have for the last 20 years which is totally understandable.
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You're completely right in principle, but the problem here is the definition of 'operating successfully' and what risk is entailed in Barca's apparent definition. Because if a successfully operating Barca is one that has to win either La Liga or the CL, then operating at that level is hugely risky for a club with such shaky finances. If successfully operating is top 2-3 in La Liga for a few years then they could achieve that with a much less risky strategy.
 
Kentonio said:
Even with those 3, they arent winning La Liga or the CL next year.
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I think La Liga is within the realm of possibility. The best team doesn't always win the league, especially if Barcelona get knocked out of the CL early while Real Madrid make another arduous march to the very end of that competition. Atletico were not impressive at all last season, and Real was clearly a step behind their usual dominance, too. Even though they won the CL, it was clear that they weren't the unstoppable powerhouse that they were in previous years. It's certainly unlikely that Barca will win the league, but it isn't something one can call impossible, especially if they do get Lewandowski.
 
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Barca are an embarrassingly run club, and have an even worse fanbase. They'll get everything they deserve in the future with this madness.
 
GinobiliTheGOAT said:
Here’s a better one then:

https://www.espn.com/soccer/barcelona-espbarcelona/story/4697467/barcelona-finan?linkId=172998683
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I don't think the article really justifies the spending spree. It explains how it is possible this summer given the various regulations in play but doesn't explain why its a good idea. The loan doesn't even clear previous debt and yet they look on course to be among the biggest spenders in Europe this summer, even after getting two decent signings on a free. And unlike a team aiming to get into the top 4 in the first place, there is little financial return for their investment because top 4 is pretty much guaranteed and top 2 and knockout rounds of the CL is easily attainable with a decent manager.

The only reason I've seen given for why they're doing it is a fairly flimsy claim that earnings will collapse if they don't, which is pretty dubious to say the least. Realistically it just seems that there's a culture of wanting big names and the nature of the club means no president can say no, endlessly repeating their past mistakes. When you've made what is literally a once in a generation financial deal to save the club at the expense of being poorer for the next 25 years, you don't just carry on as you were.
 
Niemans said:
If Barcelona does not have a competitive team, attendance at the stadium will fall by 30k+ of supporters, less merchandise sales and visits to the museum. And then you have to add sponsors and other economic issues.
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I think you're overestimating the impact of the lack of success a bit here. No way attendance would go down as much if you miss out on CL football. Also a lot of top clubs go through shit cycles but still maintain commercial success. The current approach is a big gamble because as you've seen with united, spending doesn't necessarily guarantee success. New players might not work out, Xavi might still fail, and then what's next? another lever?
 
Dansk said:
I think La Liga is within the realm of possibility. The best team doesn't always win the league, especially if Barcelona get knocked out of the CL early while Real Madrid make another arduous march to the very end of that competition. Atletico were not impressive at all last season, and Real was clearly a step behind their usual dominance, too. Even though they won the CL, it was clear that they weren't the unstoppable powerhouse that they were in previous years. It's certainly unlikely that Barca will win the league, but it isn't something one can call impossible, especially if they do get Lewandowski.
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You're right, I was being overly hyperbolic. They do have a chance.
 
Someone said:
I think you're overestimating the impact of the lack of success a bit here. No way attendance would go down as much if you miss out on CL football. Also a lot of top clubs go through shit cycles but still maintain commercial success. The current approach is a big gamble because as you've seen with united, spending doesn't necessarily guarantee success. New players might not work out, Xavi might still fail, and then what's next? another lever?
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I speak from the experience of seeing Barcelona for more than 30 years.
I will always remember the second leg of the Copa del Rey semi-finals against Real Sociedad, with Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, Busquets etc... And 30,000 spectators. The result of the first leg was 1-1.
 
Niemans said:
I speak from the experience of seeing Barcelona for more than 30 years.
I will always remember the second leg of the Copa del Rey semi-finals against Real Sociedad, with Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, Busquets etc... And 30,000 spectators. The result of the first leg was 1-1.
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Genuine question, What would constitute enough success to maintain the commercial success? Is being competitive and playing in the CL enough? What happens if you pull a united? In and out the CL with the occasional 2nd place finish and no big trophies.
 
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