Ah, now the 'sensible finances' mask slips and we're back to 'we're too good not to be challenging every year'. Barca fans never change..
Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!
- Thread starter The Boy
- Start date
Ah, now the 'sensible finances' mask slips and we're back to 'we're too good not to be challenging every year'. Barca fans never change..
Acknowledging financial realities and trying to turn them around instead of selling away the next 25 years (!) of the club bit by bit is the opposite of incompetence.
But I can't say I'd be surprised if Barca's fans were indeed caught too deep into their delusions of being special that they think their team has to be special too, regardless of the financial situation.
It's not all about what you want, like some petulant child. It's what you can afford. Dortmund are at a severe financial disadvantage to Bayern, fans acknowledge (that) reality, so to a degree they accept not being able to compete. Maybe it wouldn't hurt if Barcelona acknowledged that they are over a billion in debt.
I know perfectly well that Dortmund are at a disadvantage with Bayern, but it is a matter of ambition. And I'm sorry if my words were harsh, but it's something I live with my beloved Celta de Vigo, a mediocre club without any kind of ambition.
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I have already explained the FFP of Spain and why Barcelona can not be indebted without control.
But you don't want to talk about that or argue because you'd run out of speech. And the important thing is to throw shit at Barcelona rightly or wrongly.
You kind of are now. Theres bigger fish in the pond, there have been for years and you've been bankrupting yourself trying to keep up. You cant compete with PSG and City financially, no one can. Newcastle will probably be even worse.
Dortmund feed off dutch and other german clubs and are in turn fed off by the likes of united and barcelona. United, Barca and Real just aren't top of the food chain anymore - other clubs can offer more money and a more star studded line up. You need to start working smarter, you need to rely on a system that makes the best of some weaker players.
Ambitious clubs keep their best players even if that means a small economic sacrifice, over the years they are rewarded by entering the Champions League often and having better sponsor contracts.
Sevilla is an example of this, which sells best players and Atlético de Madrid does not. Fifteen years ago, Sevilla was a top team in Spain and Atlético de Madrid came from the Second Division and the difference in strategy meant that one team won the league and reached the Champions League finals and the other did not get into the Champions League.
Actually I did already reply to your previous message and you ignored it.
Right. Next time you do your grocery shopping just grab everything you'd like to have and then tell the clerk you want to pay with ambition. See how far that gets you.
It's not, they want to pay next year. I'm sure if their financial situation isn't better by than it will become the year after that, basically if Leeds is stupid enough to sell to them, they are never going to see any money.
Atletico sell their best players as a matter of routine, they're barely above dortmund in that regard. They just go out and buy a good player who fits their system for a fraction of the fee and continue on. Most teams have a far more volatile finishing position than 1st or 2nd. You cant make economic sacrifices, you can either afford it or you cant. Pushing the boat out in one place leaves you scratching around the bargain basement elsewhere.
I don't really know what we're talking about here. Enough information has already been put on the situation in Barcelona, how the FFP works, the wage bill, the debt.
If Barcelona does not have a competitive team, the fans do not go to the field, it may seem like a regrettable attitude, but it also makes the presidents not conformists. This is how the Barcelona fans are and it is what it is and it is not going to change.
I have a feeling that this Mes que un Lever strategy that Barca is doing is going to end up in tears in the long term. This is just nuts in my opinion.
Sorry, I haven't seen it. I will look for it and give my opinion.
He sold some of his players and because they had no choice. On the other hand, many others could have sold them and did not do so with great offers.
I am referring to sacrifices when you sell your best player to sign two other supposedly good ones, as Sevilla does year after year.
Your usual season average is 70k to 80k in a 100k stadium. But this was with Messi and with tourists. Your average will drop even if you challenge for the title.
I think they will eventually sully their reputation enough that they isolate themselves. Players will eventually see the realities of how they are treating their players and clubs will get tired of being manipulated by the snakes that have their claws in the club.
It’s sad, they might have been immoral before, but they still had an appearance of class and culture. They have destroyed their prestige and are embarrassing themselves.
It’s sad, they might have been immoral before, but they still had an appearance of class and culture. They have destroyed their prestige and are embarrassing themselves.
Its crazy that nobody there has told everyone to stop being crazy, go through a few transition years, sell off all the high earners, pay off all their debts and owed wages, and run with their young players (of which they have a very good group). Start over clean, debt free, and work with a new structure. They're trying to restructure and challenge for the CL in one go while ignoring debts. It doesn't make sense. Just do the 2-3 year transition, you can't do it properly any other way.
Barcelona will have a better or worse future, it does not depend on this specific transfer window. We will have to see how it is doing year after year.
Effectively. But if people see that they have a team with no aspirations or the same team as last year, they will stop going to the stadium.
Ridiculous. This window is going to absolutely cripple your club. You will eventually run out of assets to strip besides players and you will push yourselves further into trouble the more you tell clubs and players you want to pay them in installments or in a years time. You should have consolidated your finances and invested in your academy. You would be in a much healthier place. Instead your basically getting every mercenary for hire. This will kill your club.
Another reason to despise your club then.
It won’t take too many more farcical “please play for 50% less than we agreed to pay you” episodes for players and more importantly agents to work this out.
FdJ has been treated appallingly and just watch over the next couple of weeks as the Barca media machine ramps up on him.
As attractive as they once were I think elite players will realise it’s not worth the hassle to have to renegotiate your existing contract after 12 months when some numbnut in the finance dept realises there is no money left to pay you.
Only just realised how shit a pay day loan that first "lever" was. They stand to lose about €400m just on that 10% they sold for €207.5m.... feck ing hell.
And that's without inflation. Taking into consideration the TV rights 25 years ago compared to today, I think they have likely sold off 1bn euros for just 207.5m. And now they wanna do the same again with 15% now?
And this is good future planning how?
And that's without inflation. Taking into consideration the TV rights 25 years ago compared to today, I think they have likely sold off 1bn euros for just 207.5m. And now they wanna do the same again with 15% now?
And this is good future planning how?
Long may this mess continue, if barca keep destroying themselves to a point they can't compete Uefa might magically jump into gear about the state owned clubs, its the only way things will change if a massive club goes under claiming they are trying to compete with the new boys on the block.
Only just realised how shit a pay day loan that first "lever" was. They stand to lose about €400m just on that 10% they sold for €207.5m.... feck ing hell.
And that's without inflation. Taking into consideration the TV rights 25 years ago compared to today, I think they have likely sold off 1bn euros for just 207.5m. And now they wanna do the same again with 15% now?
And this is good future planning how?
lewandowski, Obviously!
It is utterly insane by anybody’s standards.
In a way I’d like to see de Jong stand firm and either get his dough or sue them.
It's not, of course, it's batshit mental behaviour. I just wonder where it will all end, will it leave the club bankrupt? Who knows. Spanish Government might step in?Only just realised how shit a pay day loan that first "lever" was. They stand to lose about €400m just on that 10% they sold for €207.5m.... feck ing hell.
And that's without inflation. Taking into consideration the TV rights 25 years ago compared to today, I think they have likely sold off 1bn euros for just 207.5m. And now they wanna do the same again with 15% now?
And this is good future planning how?
More than a club indeed. A spoiled child's plaything as a matter of fact.
So Lewandowski will be paid in livers?
So what kit do you wear when you watch Barcelona vs Celta Vigo?
You don't even know how the market is going to end. Then you talk about Barcelona's economic affairs without knowing the figures.
There are several posts and links explaining everything well.
Any arguments to debate?
Celta obviously.
They're all over the place. Like we have been since 2013/continue to be. They're faded jeans in the wash kind of gash but I still hope they beat Deportivo for the pronouns.
I will never write off Barcelona. But these transfer moves look a bit silly to me.
The only way Barcelona's current approach makes sense is if they have some kind of secret knowledge (or blind hope) that the ESL will come back in the near future and actually happen. They would want to remain competitive in the time between now and then so that they'd enter the ESL on the best possible terms, which likely affects how much money they get out of the deal. If that's not actually what's happening, it's hard to see how they're doing anything other than pissing themselves in order to stay warm.
I mean, it's one thing to sign players; but aside from Raphinha, their targets are mostly 30+ with no resale value. For a club that has to carefully mind their finances, that's so shortsighted that one struggles to believe that any professional would do that without knowing that something's happening in the future that'll change their financial situation. Selling future revenue is a short-term survival tactic, and there's only so many naming rights that a club can flog. I don't think the club will fold and disappear, but they could be in real trouble.
I mean, it's one thing to sign players; but aside from Raphinha, their targets are mostly 30+ with no resale value. For a club that has to carefully mind their finances, that's so shortsighted that one struggles to believe that any professional would do that without knowing that something's happening in the future that'll change their financial situation. Selling future revenue is a short-term survival tactic, and there's only so many naming rights that a club can flog. I don't think the club will fold and disappear, but they could be in real trouble.
From the outside looking in: it simply seems to be a gamble, that their revenue will quickly go up to pre-Covid levels and then increase further.
The thing is: the world economy is rather in the shits and they no longer have Messi.
That one in particular will really hurt them. In my social circle, there's three or four guys who sort of vaguely support Barcelona, not diehard lifelong fans but serious enough that they'd buy Messi shirts and things like that. After he left, their general attitude is that while they still watch Barcelona's games, they wouldn't dream of spending money to support them.
And Messi left for free when they could have sold him for a considerable sum just a year before. In fact, he wanted to leave at that point. Then next year, with Bartomeu gone, he was willing to stay but they couldn't afford to let him, so he left for nothing instead. That's a very costly blunder.
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Absolutely! I often found myself watching a random Barca game because Messi was playing. Now I only watch them in CL knockout fixtures or when they are trailing some LaLiga minion with 20 minutes to go. I would guess a lot of their attendance comes from „Messi tourist“ so I expect their attendance to be at rather 60k to 70k than the usual 70k to 80k.
Afaik you remember that correctly.
And you further highlight a big issue: Barca doesn't appear to be a truly big club. The attendance nunbers thrown around here in case Barca doesn't win titles soon again and without Messi are truly embarassing.
Schalke had more fans in their stadium in their second league season then the 30-40k often mentioned here.
Doesn't Barca have some astronomical ticket prices though? We've also seen in the EL that they have come up with a plan to pump up those rookie numbers.
The seats with the "Mes Que Un Club" print cost €114/€124 for a game against Real Valladolid.
And we have also seen against Frankfurt how few die hard fans they have that would care about that competition
Yeah for the side of the pitch, mid-low tier, it’s ridiculous. However, you can get tickets starting at about £40 and I’m sure season ticket prices must be cheaper. Pretty sure last time I went, the more expensive seats had less gaps than the cheap seats.
Since they were mentioned earlier, these are Schalke's prices.
They must be less than a club.
The only reason they're going insane in these dealings is Madrid i think, they can't bear languishing in mediocrity while their nemesis just collected another European cup and is poised to steamroll the league next season even if that's better for them in the long term.
So they must get the shiniest new player even if they can't afford him, even if it means practically selling their future.
If this fecks them in the long term it would be one of the biggest indictments against the democratic fan led model that some clubs operate on.
So they must get the shiniest new player even if they can't afford him, even if it means practically selling their future.
If this fecks them in the long term it would be one of the biggest indictments against the democratic fan led model that some clubs operate on.
Would also imagine that Real have no intention of helping out with the Super League creation again now. Barca are kidding themselves if they are waiting for that to rescue them.