Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

Pedri was about 20 million.

I just think signing up old players with big wages is a bad strategy but I guess I don't know the accounts.
Lewandowski for 40m is a pretty good deal to be fair. The wages might be another story but when Liverpool are paying 100m for a Porto forward its hard to see them doing better elsewhere. I largely agree with the point but i'd probably direct it more towards Depay and Raphina and theres probably half a dozen others who's name i've already forgotten (Torres?).
Its hard to judge really. Its not the transfer fees that have killed them so much as the wages
 
Lewandowski will not leave us for 40m €. Barca will have to pay our asking price and do so in one installement or else they do not get the player even if Lewandowskis agent thinks he can now dictate to clubs for how much they will sell their players.
Yes we helped Dortmund once when they were broke but we are not Oxfam or some kind of charity for failed football clubs.
 
Lewandowski will not leave us for 40m €. Barca will have to pay our asking price and do so in one installement or else they do not get the player even if Lewandowskis agent thinks he can now dictate to clubs for how much they will sell their players.
Yes we helped Dortmund once when they were broke but we are not Oxfam or some kind of charity for failed football clubs.

Bayern stopping Lewandowski is a horrible business for them.
They' will lose 40+m for transfer and 25m for wages = 65+m in total in order to keep him for one more year, when they rejected paying him 75m over 3 years earlier when he wanted to extend (I assume he didn't want a significant raise). So 65m for one year makes sense, but 75m for three years doesn't?
And then, one year later, they will have to face the challenge of rebuilding without Lewandowski/Muller/Neuer anyway, but they will be 65+m poorer.

Horrible, horrible business.
 
Lewandowski will not leave us for 40m €. Barca will have to pay our asking price and do so in one installement or else they do not get the player even if Lewandowskis agent thinks he can now dictate to clubs for how much they will sell their players.
Yes we helped Dortmund once when they were broke but we are not Oxfam or some kind of charity for failed football clubs.

Barcelona is a failed club. Ok.
 
Madrid fans should be really concerned by what’s going on at Barca … Papa Flo is 75 years old … this could be us when he is gone. Ideally he should step down in the next election and support his preferred candidate. That way he can groom the new guy in his lifetime.
 
Bayern stopping Lewandowski is a horrible business for them.
They' will lose 40+m for transfer and 25m for wages = 65+m in total in order to keep him for one more year, when they rejected paying him 75m over 3 years earlier when he wanted to extend (I assume he didn't want a significant raise). So 65m for one year makes sense, but 75m for three years doesn't?
And then, one year later, they will have to face the challenge of rebuilding without Lewandowski/Muller/Neuer anyway, but they will be 65+m poorer.

Horrible, horrible business.
Selling this year at this stage with no striker options out there will be worse for them.
 
Barcelona activating these economic agreements will eliminate a lot of debt, which is where the money will go.
I don't know where you get that Barcelona will need to sell their best players for the next 5-6 years. Obviously that's not true but not even close to it.

What they're doing is trying to fudge the accounts by artificially increasing revenues for a particular period to keep the hounds at the gates.

The only reason you're selling future revenues is because you're broke in the present/in your current situation. If Barca didn't take this deal, then they would currently be having a massive fire sale of the squad and being asset stripped.

All they're doing at the moment is robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Additionally, this trick cannot really be repeated so moving forward it will require player sales to fudge the accounts. Barca's biggest problem is yet to come, which is the raise in interest rates, their debt mountain (and the amount of debt that is short to medium term) and their near junk lending status.

Selling this year at this stage with no striker options out there will be worse for them.

Depends. They still most likely win the league without him. CL chances would take a big hit but they're not favourites anyway and next year they lose him for free.
 
Barcelona is a failed club. Ok.
Begging players to take deferred wages and paycuts, not able to make/register new signings because you have been grossly and utterly mismanaged, Id say failed club is spot on.
 
So with these 'Financial Levers' and pretty much selling the crown jewles so to speak (Stadium Naming, Massive percentage of their tv revenue and shirt sales) Buying all of these players while not selling a lot, does't that just kick the can down the road so to speak?
 
So with these 'Financial Levers' and pretty much selling the crown jewles so to speak (Stadium Naming, Massive percentage of their tv revenue and shirt sales) Buying all of these players while not selling a lot, does't that just kick the can down the road so to speak?
Yep, its the footballing equivalent of taking a payday loan to make your credit card payment.
 
What they're doing is trying to fudge the accounts by artificially increasing revenues for a particular period to keep the hounds at the gates.

The only reason you're selling future revenues is because you're broke in the present/in your current situation. If Barca didn't take this deal, then they would currently be having a massive fire sale of the squad and being asset stripped.

All they're doing at the moment is robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Additionally, this trick cannot really be repeated so moving forward it will require player sales to fudge the accounts. Barca's biggest problem is yet to come, which is the raise in interest rates, their debt mountain (and the amount of debt that is short to medium term) and their near junk lending status.



Depends. They still most likely win the league without him. CL chances would take a big hit but they're not favourites anyway and next year they lose him for free.
Instead of trying to fix their financial issues immediately, they're buying players that they can't afford. They basically need to miraculously start winning everything or they'll be in a worse financial position in a few years.
 
Instead of trying to fix their financial issues immediately, they're buying players that they can't afford. They basically need to miraculously start winning everything or they'll be in a worse financial position in a few years.
Agree. Funny thing is they’re nowhere near Madrid at the moment for me.
 
If Barcelona got it right on the pitch and won the next 2 la liga titles would that be enough to maintain their squad/finances?
 
If Barcelona got it right on the pitch and won the next 2 la liga titles would that be enough to maintain their squad/finances?

Probably not. Barca's biggest enemy right now is interest rates and the strong dollar.

In Jan 2021 their debt was €1.1bn with €730m in short term debt with another significant proportion in medium term debt. Last reports had €330m'ish maturing this year (supporting the €730m figure) alone and that the total debt was around €1.35bn in Summer 2021. Current reports say that they took on more debt during the last year.

I won't go into guessing what that figure now stands at, but it is quite apprant they needed to take on more debt since June 2021, all the while with a near junk credit rating. However, without details it is all thumb in the air, so let's work with the €1.35bn figure and the €730m of short term debt.

However, before that it needs to be remembered the above figure is barely manageable for them at ultra low rates since they have had to;

a) sell future revenues
b ) have players take deferments
c) sell all sponsorship

This is while they're qualifying for the CL.

Now, back to the debt.

We know interest rates are going up. Around 1.5% minimum is a good guess, however with their near junk status it is probably (a lot) higher.

However, for arguments sake lets work with €730m plus a 1.5% rise (they need to refi asap to avoid getting future increases.) This means, the financing of their loans (read; not capital repayment) is around €11m more expensive than last year. On top of this the Euro is weak against the Dollar which a lot of debt are written in owing it to be the worlds reserve currency. The difference between June 2021 to June 2022 is approximately 10% so that is another €1.1m while there total debts if you go off USD and convert to EUR means the €1.35bn figure is €1.48bn.

Personally, I am not sure what they're doing with the capital injection they got the other day. A sensible person would use that to pay down some of the short term debt, even if to try and improve the credit rating to get better rates going forward, as well as insuring that the debt doesn't spiral further. However, that doesn't seem like the course, and they're still banking on future growth to grow their way out of their problems (this is the logic that got them to €1.3bn in the first place.)

So, financially they're absolutely fecked. The only way out for them is a combination of the following:

1) They get back to growth quickly and the growth is rapid. This is the most important factor for them. This however, is incredibly difficult as they've also started selling off future revenues.

2) EUR significantly reverses its losses against USD. Tbf, this may not be so important if all the debt is written in EUR (unlikely.)

3) Interest rates stop going up. If this goes up much more it is likely they'll default in the near term, at which point the creditors get to decide how to minimise their losses.

A CL run of an extra €40m across the year or a La Liga win of a few mill isn't going to cut it.
 
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They're operating like wheeler dealers. It's crazy.
Yep, its the footballing equivalent of taking a payday loan to make your credit card payment.
Instead of trying to fix their financial issues immediately, they're buying players that they can't afford. They basically need to miraculously start winning everything or they'll be in a worse financial position in a few years.

In Spain there is a very strict FFP and if Barcelona were in debt even more they could not register them.
How it happened last year.
We will see if the signings will be registered or not.
 
Probably not. Barca's biggest enemy right now is interest rates and the strong dollar.

In Jan 2021 their debt was €1.1bn with €730m in short term debt with another significant proportion in medium term debt. Last reports had €330m'ish maturing this year (supporting the €730m figure) alone and that the total debt was around €1.35bn in Summer 2021. Current reports say that they took on more debt during the last year.

I won't go into guessing what that figure now stands at, but it is quite apprant they needed to take on more debt since June 2021, all the while with a near junk credit rating. However, without details it is all thumb in the air, so let's work with the €1.35bn figure and the €730m of short term debt.

However, before that it needs to be remembered the above figure is barely manageable for them at ultra low rates since they have had to;

a) sell future revenues
b ) have players take deferments
c) sell all sponsorship

This is while they're qualifying for the CL.

Now, back to the debt.

We know interest rates are going up. Around 1.5% minimum is a good guess, however with their near junk status it is probably (a lot) higher.

However, for arguments sake lets work with €730m plus a 1.5% rise (they need to refi asap to avoid getting future increases.) This means, the financing of their loans (read; not capital repayment) is around €11m more expensive than last year. On top of this the Euro is weak against the Dollar which a lot of debt are written in owing it to be the worlds reserve currency. The difference between June 2021 to June 2022 is approximately 10% so that is another €1.1m while there total debts if you go off USD and convert to EUR means the €1.35bn figure is €1.48bn.

Personally, I am not sure what they're doing with the capital injection they got the other day. A sensible person would use that to pay down some of the short term debt, even if to try and improve the credit rating to get better rates going forward, as well as insuring that the debt doesn't spiral further. However, that doesn't seem like the course, and they're still banking on future growth to grow their way out of their problems (this is the logic that got them to €1.3bn in the first place.)

So, financially they're absolutely fecked. The only way out for them is a combination of the following:

1) They get back to growth quickly and the growth is rapid. This is the most important factor for them. This however, is incredibly difficult as they've also started selling off future revenues.

2) EUR significantly reverses its losses against USD. Tbf, this may not be so important if all the debt is written in EUR (unlikely.)

3) Interest rates stop going up. If this goes up much more it is likely they'll default in the near term, at which point the creditors get to decide how to minimise their losses.

A CL run of an extra €40m across the year or a La Liga win of a few mill isn't going to cut it.

One question. That debt that you say Barcelona has is net or gross?
 
One question. That debt that you say Barcelona has is net or gross?

Obviously gross. Your net debt was reported as €488m at the end if 2019/20. I suspect that is now higher, simply because of the nature of the pandemic and how it has affected everyone.

However, the problem here is the discussion of Barca is about their ability to function as a club at the elite end of European football. Yes, your net debt is a lot lower, however in order to reduce the gross debt (which is what you pay interest on), it would require the sale of assets with players being the obvious solution for quick liquidity. However, if you sell players, then you cannot compete.

This is the problem Barca are facing, how to continue to be successful on the pitch whilst financing their debt, without the need to resort to selling players. At the moment, you've pretty much exhausted all the options apart from the liquidation of the playing staff available to you. However, you cannot continue to rely on major sponsorships/future right sales as I cannot see much else you can reasonably sell.

At this current juncture, you may be able to finance your current situation. However, the nature and structure of your debt and it's high loading of short/medium term debt, along with your poor credit rating, means you're at the mercy of the bond markets (interest rates) and the F/X markets (strength of USD.)
 
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In Spain there is a very strict FFP and if Barcelona were in debt even more they could not register them.
How it happened last year.
We will see if the signings will be registered or not.
It seems like they registered two players today.
 
Probably not. Barca's biggest enemy right now is interest rates and the strong dollar.

In Jan 2021 their debt was €1.1bn with €730m in short term debt with another significant proportion in medium term debt. Last reports had €330m'ish maturing this year (supporting the €730m figure) alone and that the total debt was around €1.35bn in Summer 2021. Current reports say that they took on more debt during the last year.

I won't go into guessing what that figure now stands at, but it is quite apprant they needed to take on more debt since June 2021, all the while with a near junk credit rating. However, without details it is all thumb in the air, so let's work with the €1.35bn figure and the €730m of short term debt.

However, before that it needs to be remembered the above figure is barely manageable for them at ultra low rates since they have had to;

a) sell future revenues
b ) have players take deferments
c) sell all sponsorship

This is while they're qualifying for the CL.

Now, back to the debt.

We know interest rates are going up. Around 1.5% minimum is a good guess, however with their near junk status it is probably (a lot) higher.

However, for arguments sake lets work with €730m plus a 1.5% rise (they need to refi asap to avoid getting future increases.) This means, the financing of their loans (read; not capital repayment) is around €11m more expensive than last year. On top of this the Euro is weak against the Dollar which a lot of debt are written in owing it to be the worlds reserve currency. The difference between June 2021 to June 2022 is approximately 10% so that is another €1.1m while there total debts if you go off USD and convert to EUR means the €1.35bn figure is €1.48bn.

Personally, I am not sure what they're doing with the capital injection they got the other day. A sensible person would use that to pay down some of the short term debt, even if to try and improve the credit rating to get better rates going forward, as well as insuring that the debt doesn't spiral further. However, that doesn't seem like the course, and they're still banking on future growth to grow their way out of their problems (this is the logic that got them to €1.3bn in the first place.)

So, financially they're absolutely fecked. The only way out for them is a combination of the following:

1) They get back to growth quickly and the growth is rapid. This is the most important factor for them. This however, is incredibly difficult as they've also started selling off future revenues.

2) EUR significantly reverses its losses against USD. Tbf, this may not be so important if all the debt is written in EUR (unlikely.)

3) Interest rates stop going up. If this goes up much more it is likely they'll default in the near term, at which point the creditors get to decide how to minimise their losses.

A CL run of an extra €40m across the year or a La Liga win of a few mill isn't going to cut it.
Very nice summary. I think they banking on a government bailout eventually. Barcelona FC is an institution, there’s no ways the government would let them go under.
 
In Spain there is a very strict FFP and if Barcelona were in debt even more they could not register them.
How it happened last year.
We will see if the signings will be registered or not.

FFP is an accounting trick, it doesn't tell you the financial health of a club. It just means that their income for that accounting period allows them to spend x amount. If FFP precluded serious debt, there is no way Barca would have a gross debt of over €1.3bn.

All Barca are doing at the moment are 'robbing Peter to pay Paul' as the saying goes. By this, all FFP is allowing you to do is to move revenue from future years to this year/moving debt to players to future years etc. In no way shape of form, are Barca ok, they're just playing accounting tricks in an attempt to keep going in the short term.

The logic behind this is that, they'll stave off administration/liquidation for now on the hope that growth returns so that they can pay their liabilities; however this is very very dangerous in a high inflationary period owing to the costs of financing said debt goes up exponentially.

A good popular culture example of what Barca are doing is what Ted Beneke did in Breaking Bad.

Like Ted, they're/FFP is allowing them to manufacture money onto the books, in order to show their creditors/La Liga that they're not broke in order to keep running, even though this patently not true.

Additionally, a little like TB, they seem to have also decided that when they get/got a cash injection to save the day for niw, they will metorphically buy a new Mercedes rather than deal with their overheads in the hope that investment will build better revenues.

Let's just hope Huell doesn't turn up at Laporte's.
 
Obviously gross. Your net debt was reported as €488m at the end if 2019/20. I suspect that is now higher, simply because of the nature of the pandemic and how it has affected everyone.

However, the problem here is the discussion of Barca is about their ability to function as a club at the elite end of European football. Yes, your net debt is a lot lower, however in order to reduce the gross debt (which is what you pay interest on), it would require the sale of assets with players being the obvious solution for quick liquidity. However, if you sell players, then you cannot compete.

This is the problem Barca are facing, how to continue to be successful on the pitch whilst financing their debt, without the need to resort to selling players. At the moment, you've pretty much exhausted all the options apart from the liquidation of the playing staff available to you. However, you cannot continue to rely on major sponsorships/future right sales as I cannot see much else you can reasonably sell.

At this current juncture, you may be able to finance your current situation. However, the nature and structure of your debt and it's high loading of short/medium term debt, along with your poor credit rating, means you're at the mercy of the bond markets (interest rates) and the F/X markets (strength of USD.)

Yes, I know it's gross debt. I was just asking you because there are a few users who think it's net.
If you are interested I can give you detailed figures of Barcelona's debt when the budget was presented in October last year.
 
It seems like they registered two players today.
We just made them oficial. We don't need to register them yet as La Liga will start in over one month. Memphis, Eric García and Agüero were made oficial but were not register until mid August when Piqué lowered his salary. I don't think we can register them yet but they were announced because Laporta has a deal almost done. Either selling more TV rights, BLM or Frenkie de Jong.
 
We just made them oficial. We don't need to register them yet as La Liga will start in over one month. Memphis, Eric García and Agüero were made oficial but were not register until mid August when Piqué lowered his salary. I don't think we can register them yet but they were announced because Laporta has a deal almost done. Either selling more TV rights, BLM or Frenkie de Jong.

Barcelona will try to close before the end of the month the remaining 15% of the television rights, between 350-400M.
With that amount they will be able to have the FFP in 1:1.
The sale of 49% of BLM is stopped because according to the latest information it is not necessary to activate that lever.
 
What are you talking about? Barca got 1.9% from Goldman&Sachs for their last 500m credit to refinance other, worse debts. That is considered poor? :lol:

Effectively.

- €595M - 10 years with an interest of 1.98%