Messi is the undisputed GOAT but how could you not give it to Haaland really? It was basically a lifetime achievement award this year.
Ballon d'Or 2023 | Messi wins for 8th time
- Thread starter Samid
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Well deserved. Messi was breathtaking in the World Cup and had excellent numbers in Ligue 1. And banging in free kicks and wondergoals in the US now.
How can you win Ballon D'or as a striker scoring 0 goals & 0 assists in 7 semis & finals with City when City scored 12 goals in those 7 games? Haaland was basically bailed out by an already great City team that easily dominates PL even without a striker prior to Haaland's arrival. The guy was not even the best player at City with KDB and Rodri.. Rodri was even chosen as the official MVP of the CL and MOTM of the CL final.
Messi 2022/23
68 g&a
WC MVP
WC g&a leader
FIFA Best
IFFHS World’s Best Playmaker
Laureus Sportsman of the year
Ligue 1 assist leader
Most MOTM in Europe (14 vs Mbappe with 7)
Highest per game rating in Europe
Europe 2nd most assists total in the league + CL (right after KDB)
Europe 2nd most big chance creation (right after Bruno)
Europe 2nd most successful dribbles (right after Vinicius)
39 G+A in 40 games in Ligue 1 + CL (vs Mbappe with 45 G+A in 42 games).
Totally classless from Ronaldo but that shouldn't come as a surprise.
Sometimes individual awards are about stories and legends. Messi endured a frustrating time internationally until that Copa America win and was always kind of seen as second best to Maradona's achievement in 86, but then he went and won both competitions in the latter part of his career. He did it, at last! he equaled Maradona. His legend has a fitting end. Last year pretty much cemented his status as the greatest of all time. The award is recognition of that legend and of those performances
As i said Becks and Keane didn't win it in 99, Sneijder didn't win it 2010, De Bruyne and Haaland didn't win it this year. It happens.
Sometimes individual awards are about stories and legends. Messi endured a frustrating time internationally until that Copa America win and was always kind of seen as second best to Maradona's achievement in 86, but then he went and won both competitions in the latter part of his career. He did it, at last! he equaled Maradona. His legend has a fitting end. Last year pretty much cemented his status as the greatest of all time. The award is recognition of that legend and of those performances
As i said Becks and Keane didn't win it in 99, Sneijder didn't win it 2010, De Bruyne and Haaland didn't win it this year. It happens.
Imagine thinking Lewa should have won Ballon D'or in 2021 for being the top goal-scorer in Bundesliga at Bayern that Bayern has been winning 10 years in a row... You are probably confusing 2020 with 2021. Messi was easily better than Lewa that year. Lewa could not even play after the 2nd round in the CL with Bayern that year due to an injury.. Lewa should have easily won 2020 not 2021.
La Liga top goal scorer + La Liga most assists + Copa America MVP + Copa top goal scorer + IFFHS World's Best Playmaker (2nd) >>>>> Whatever Lewa did in Bundesliga with Bayern
Messi also had 27 MOTM vs Lewa with 13.
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Of all the expensive properties Messi has all over the world, who would think the most expensive one is Ronaldo’s head. And he lives there for free.
it’s funny how Messi completely ignores Ronaldo while CR7 has always gone against him in public.
Messi winning the World Cup definitely killed his mind. He can’t even control it. The inferiority complex is visible from outer space, which is sad being who he is, one of the GOATS aswell
it’s funny how Messi completely ignores Ronaldo while CR7 has always gone against him in public.
Messi winning the World Cup definitely killed his mind. He can’t even control it. The inferiority complex is visible from outer space, which is sad being who he is, one of the GOATS aswell
I did feel bad for Lewandowski when they scrubbed the award the covid year. He deserved it and really should have been awarded it anyway. That really was a pile of crap on FIFA’s part.
Let’s be blunt though, the rest of the thread is just a combination of the usual Ronaldo fanatics looking to create reasons for why it should have been anyone else as they tend to do every time Messi wins, and people who are just generally bored of seeing Messi win.
People pushing for Haaland seem to think it’s some sort of golden boot top scorer award. But honestly if you just want to hand it to a poacher based on goals then he surely has to score in at least one of the CL semi’s, final or FA cup final. To come up with nothing in all of these makes it a near impossibility. And like it or not, the World Cup is the biggest prize in global sport; if you win that and you also shine individually then you’ve got a serious edge.
P.S. I did enjoy that Camara lad complaining about inconsistencies in criteria, but then being completely inconsistent with his own criteria and just changing it accordingly to suit Ronaldo each time
Let’s be blunt though, the rest of the thread is just a combination of the usual Ronaldo fanatics looking to create reasons for why it should have been anyone else as they tend to do every time Messi wins, and people who are just generally bored of seeing Messi win.
People pushing for Haaland seem to think it’s some sort of golden boot top scorer award. But honestly if you just want to hand it to a poacher based on goals then he surely has to score in at least one of the CL semi’s, final or FA cup final. To come up with nothing in all of these makes it a near impossibility. And like it or not, the World Cup is the biggest prize in global sport; if you win that and you also shine individually then you’ve got a serious edge.
P.S. I did enjoy that Camara lad complaining about inconsistencies in criteria, but then being completely inconsistent with his own criteria and just changing it accordingly to suit Ronaldo each time
A bit of a rant regarding the Ballon de Or and how media nowadays and even current or ex players many times see the game.
When comes to the whole criteria behind the Ballon and Gold Standards and such discussions spoken here, I think that the only real MAJOR shift in the Ballon D Or criteria in the last 15/20 years, is the extreme focus on stats and even CLs titles/campaigns, without actually putting more emphasis (like in many ocassions in the past) on how a player played, what diffilculties he faced among his own team and MOSTLY what he brings to the table regarding "the game" of the player per se
And I'm not implying that there is sthg. inherently extremely wrong taking in account goals, assists, of course not, but rarely are analyzed how those were made and so many other aspects of the game itself that are not that as easy to quantify.
For all the "Messi agenda" complains (since ever), the whole "mkt complains", that trend, view, focus on STATS+CL was mainly built on the very basis of the biggest club in the world propelling their biggest asset in the media focusing in his and their team strengths.
And this is sthg that rarely is spoken and might bite in the back of the legacy of for instance CR if this is getting to a point were the Muller type of players become the ultimate footballer archetype, because he was so much more than that.
I dunno what the world would do with football as a whole, I dunno how this too much for my liking stat oriented focus trend will follow, I hope players like Platini, Cryuff, Zico, still will be remembered and revered in the future and that fellas like Zidane, R9 or Diego does not get buried in mostly stats+titles players (that BTW don't get me wrong, the Mullers, Erlings are extraordinary footballers in their own right) but when we just get down to compare numbers, no matter if it involves where and when those are mades, we tend to create some kind of "false" levelled gorund in terms of talent that kind of gets messy, I've read no few times here that CR was as intelligent as Maradona in the pitch just as an example, next step Batstuta was a dribbler, I dunno.
PD: BTW that trend and focus, also suddenly forgot that way before Messi or CR, there were fellas like Di Setfano, Puskas pulling out titles and stats from their arses like nothing and sometimes with even best %, but suddenly those didn't count either, like if was all unpredecedent.
When comes to the whole criteria behind the Ballon and Gold Standards and such discussions spoken here, I think that the only real MAJOR shift in the Ballon D Or criteria in the last 15/20 years, is the extreme focus on stats and even CLs titles/campaigns, without actually putting more emphasis (like in many ocassions in the past) on how a player played, what diffilculties he faced among his own team and MOSTLY what he brings to the table regarding "the game" of the player per se
And I'm not implying that there is sthg. inherently extremely wrong taking in account goals, assists, of course not, but rarely are analyzed how those were made and so many other aspects of the game itself that are not that as easy to quantify.
For all the "Messi agenda" complains (since ever), the whole "mkt complains", that trend, view, focus on STATS+CL was mainly built on the very basis of the biggest club in the world propelling their biggest asset in the media focusing in his and their team strengths.
And this is sthg that rarely is spoken and might bite in the back of the legacy of for instance CR if this is getting to a point were the Muller type of players become the ultimate footballer archetype, because he was so much more than that.
I dunno what the world would do with football as a whole, I dunno how this too much for my liking stat oriented focus trend will follow, I hope players like Platini, Cryuff, Zico, still will be remembered and revered in the future and that fellas like Zidane, R9 or Diego does not get buried in mostly stats+titles players (that BTW don't get me wrong, the Mullers, Erlings are extraordinary footballers in their own right) but when we just get down to compare numbers, no matter if it involves where and when those are mades, we tend to create some kind of "false" levelled gorund in terms of talent that kind of gets messy, I've read no few times here that CR was as intelligent as Maradona in the pitch just as an example, next step Batstuta was a dribbler, I dunno.
PD: BTW that trend and focus, also suddenly forgot that way before Messi or CR, there were fellas like Di Setfano, Puskas pulling out titles and stats from their arses like nothing and sometimes with even best %, but suddenly those didn't count either, like if was all unpredecedent.
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Lewa was the obviously most badly affected by this stupid decision followed by Messi.
I love watching Ronaldo fans reactions, so predictable yet acting like nobody sees what they are doing
First grouped under Lewa's wings, then last year working full time for Mbappe PR in the WC, and now having to act like they are the greatest supporters for Haaland with each time their hopes ending in frustration. Then, they start the "must be rigged" campaign, their genius solution making them the biggest social justice warrior group in the football world. I have never seen such a desperate fanbase before.. Seeing Ronaldo's regular childish behavior even at 38, I would say he and his fans are the most perfect fit ever..I always say if we send these guys back to 70s, they would never be able to process what's going on. They will riot saying when Muller dominates goal-scoring that much, why are Beckenbauer & Cruyff getting all Ballon D'ors. This is the social media generation, scoreboard fans. And funnily enough, Haaland is just a poor man's Gerd Muller, cannot even lace Muller's boots when it comes to goalscoring & clutchness in big games.
P.S. I did enjoy that Camara lad complaining about inconsistencies in criteria, but then being completely inconsistent with his own criteria and just changing it accordingly to suit Ronaldo each time
What would you expect from one of the co-leaders of "Let's make our irrelevant homeboy Ronaldo relevant again" social movement? Since Ronaldo has not doing been anything of note after Real last 5 years and is now living in self-imposed exile in South Africa, their "brilliant" solution was to reduce Messi's "deserved" Ballon D'ors so that they can cope with the reality and finally sleep well.
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I did feel bad for Lewandowski when they scrubbed the award the covid year. He deserved it and really should have been awarded it anyway. That really was a pile of crap on FIFA’s part.
Let’s be blunt though, the rest of the thread is just a combination of the usual Ronaldo fanatics looking to create reasons for why it should have been anyone else as they tend to do every time Messi wins, and people who are just generally bored of seeing Messi win.
People pushing for Haaland seem to think it’s some sort of golden boot top scorer award. But honestly if you just want to hand it to a poacher based on goals then he surely has to score in at least one of the CL semi’s, final or FA cup final. To come up with nothing in all of these makes it a near impossibility. And like it or not, the World Cup is the biggest prize in global sport; if you win that and you also shine individually then you’ve got a serious edge.
P.S. I did enjoy that Camara lad complaining about inconsistencies in criteria, but then being completely inconsistent with his own criteria and just changing it accordingly to suit Ronaldo each time
Yet, complaining if Erling had won it, it's silly too. BTW he is an excellent poacher, but also is noticeable that in City he became more of it due to the style of the team. In the past (and I trust he would do it again) he had a larger repertoir (he already showed soem of it, even if his season had mostly tap ins style of goals).
Also he is as GENEROUS and intelligent as they come for being such a prolific goalscorer.
In comparison to what many of his mates fail to even made a simple one two or even pass to Alvarez, he on contrair gets along greatly and it's precisly the one player in the team that has a more similar task, we have seen in the past too many goalscorers borthering silly behaviour when comes to goals.
This intelligence, this direct game of him in a team like City that too many times it's extremely and even annoyingly conservative is a great asset that City had last season. A VERY neeeded edge, even by just going to the space time and again, even when his mates avoided the much needed last pass tons of times for being to risky for City's style (this also has it share of why in some big matches he didn't score, many of them had tons of minutes of him not receiving a single pass with advantage).
So Erling had a sensational season and was WAY more than OK if he won it, not being a WC year, Messi not having a great season overal and being him in his last years, more than probably he would have taken without much problem.
He had an extraordinary season by any standards, even if I'm not that fond of the stats orieneted shift the Ballon took in the last decades, credit when its due.
I get that he could do better in terms of goals mainly in the last matches of the season, I know, yet he wasn't as awful as its said in all of those games and people need to realize that YOU JUST DON'T GET THERE if you don't do your homework before. It's as simply as that.
Thinking that prior games would have been won no matter what, it's not only silly, is truly far from accurate and dangerous. Just as an example the list of Powerhosuses that are left in the dust in Group stages of WCs when they do not deliver in those games is endless.
I get the appeal and of course importance of scoring and having great games in Big or late stage matches, but so many tournaments are won because of winning matches that should have been easier on paper and end being just a narrow win and so many campaings and knock out competitions are lost because of not winning those "little" matches.
If he had scored in the final matches of the season it would have look better? no doubt, but the whole over the top bashing on him because of that has more to do to accomodate Messi's chances than anything else. And Messi doesn't need that in order to be cool for him to win it as he did, nor I'm delisuonal that Erling would have look a lot better in the eyes of everybody if he smashed a couple of goals in those intances and make Messi's chances slimmer, but this shouldn't mean that Erling's whole campaign has to be reduce to sucha degree many here thinks it should.
At the end of the day, debuting in the EPL, in a new team, with his age and the pression that involves it was quite an achievement even lacking a couple of goals in those instances. At some moment we all have to stop bashing or being over the top against the player, rival or whatever is in the path of our guy or club or whatever.
You’re entitled to your opinion dude. Bottom line is I think a goal poacher who didn’t score in the CL semi’s or final or FA Cup final or Super cup final
winning it ahead of a player who had a real stand out World Cup in which he won it, would be very wrong.
Shit awards has been for ages now. Messi basically winning it due to his World Cup performance.
His numbers in Ligue 1 are irrelevant, shit league. They got knocked out of the last 16 in The CL. Should have been a City player.
PSG didn't even get the coupe De France either. They won Ligue 1 (barely). Average season for PSG and Messi domestically.
His numbers in Ligue 1 are irrelevant, shit league. They got knocked out of the last 16 in The CL. Should have been a City player.
PSG didn't even get the coupe De France either. They won Ligue 1 (barely). Average season for PSG and Messi domestically.
Regardless of the discussion if Messi should have won it or not, it’s fecking weird that this is still a thing here. It’s not like a United player got “robbed”. Neither did a nobody win it for nothing.
Seems like some clowns aka United fans hate Messi more and love Ronaldo more than they like United.
Messi won it ahead of a City player. Good. Nothing to add.
Seems like some clowns aka United fans hate Messi more and love Ronaldo more than they like United.
Messi won it ahead of a City player. Good. Nothing to add.
Must be tough to be a a Ronaldo fanboy currently. After the WC, another big blow to their egos.
I did feel bad for Lewandowski when they scrubbed the award the covid year. He deserved it and really should have been awarded it anyway. That really was a pile of crap on FIFA’s part.
Let’s be blunt though, the rest of the thread is just a combination of the usual Ronaldo fanatics looking to create reasons for why it should have been anyone else as they tend to do every time Messi wins, and people who are just generally bored of seeing Messi win.
People pushing for Haaland seem to think it’s some sort of golden boot top scorer award. But honestly if you just want to hand it to a poacher based on goals then he surely has to score in at least one of the CL semi’s, final or FA cup final. To come up with nothing in all of these makes it a near impossibility. And like it or not, the World Cup is the biggest prize in global sport; if you win that and you also shine individually then you’ve got a serious edge.
P.S. I did enjoy that Camara lad complaining about inconsistencies in criteria, but then being completely inconsistent with his own criteria and just changing it accordingly to suit Ronaldo each time
Haaland did literally win their new Gerd Müller award, which is the best striker award. They created it because Messi keeps winning the grand prize.
Nothing to be hung up about, as i said illogical opinion is still an opinion
What did Messi do in 2023? Score a few for Inter Miami.
Haaland was robbed.
Haaland was robbed.
After almost a year, they are still in the denial stage of grief. Embarassing for some of them
Ronaldo fanboys and fangirls who are embarasssing themselves you mean? Dont see what Ronaldo has done to be classless in this instance
The more post prime Messi has won it, together with the last 3 that Ronaldo undeservedly claimed the accolade, have depreciated the award. There has been a few other wins that didn't help. But after FIFA cochaired the award as from 1995, the only way was down, because FIFA is as corrupt as a philanthropic narcissist.
Because whilst it’s predominantly a United forum, it’s also here to discuss other football matters and other general topics.
Using your argument, we shouldn’t be discussing the Ukraine or Hamas either as it doesn’t affect United.
Its just him loving an instragram post from his sister about Messi robbing another ballon d'or.
man, this thread reminded me of all those endless debates in that thread years ago. so many fanboys actually convincing themselves that they're watching two equally good players will never stop being funny.
This Xavi/Iniesta were robbed revisionist bullshit needs to stop. Messi was already the best player in the world by some margin that year. You people are insane.
It's probably the most pointless argument in football. It's not a real football award, it's just a popularity contest.
It’s illogical to not think Messi is the best player in the world in 2023? Ok perhaps in your head. Maybe you should accept others have a different opinion today and move on.
The Ballon D’Or has been bent for years and no longer has the status it deserves. We have the best league in the world with the majority of the best player yet they can’t win it because they don’t play in La Liga
There was a player last year won…
Champion League
Premier League
FA Cup
UEFA Player of the year
Golden Boot
Premier League Player of the season
Broke records for fun
Yet doesn’t get a sniff.
Ps.. Just for the record and show how bent it is Bellingham wins it next year even if he doesn’t deserve it.
There was a player last year won…
Champion League
Premier League
FA Cup
UEFA Player of the year
Golden Boot
Premier League Player of the season
Broke records for fun
Yet doesn’t get a sniff.
Ps.. Just for the record and show how bent it is Bellingham wins it next year even if he doesn’t deserve it.
Coming 2nd is getting a sniff. And he won the Gerd Müller award. Still i understand your point. La liga point doesn't stand. The prem just rarely has the best player in the world.
... there wasn't a single La Liga player in the top 5.
So skewed towards la liga.
Just the fact that some people truly believe that Haaland should’ve won this award really shows how the game is evolving to a robotic sport. It’s really sad to see. Rodri or KDB should’ve been ahead of him. How can you look at haaland and think “this guy is the best player in the world” is something beyond my logic.
Don't think it's outrageous at all. Haaland was great, but as someone mentioned already he faded in the latter stages of Cup competitions and his teammates brought those titles.
Messi was brilliant at WC and got the shiniest trophy of all while being the best player + put up another amazing domestic season by numbers.
Also think that people are overreacting and just tired of Messi winning. If Mbappe had won the WC on top of his domestic season and gotten the Ballon D'or i'm pretty sure nobody would've even questioned it.
I mean it's not that Messi's level has dropped off a cliff either, he is still absolutely amazing and does stuff that others see in their dreams.
GOAT
Messi was brilliant at WC and got the shiniest trophy of all while being the best player + put up another amazing domestic season by numbers.
Also think that people are overreacting and just tired of Messi winning. If Mbappe had won the WC on top of his domestic season and gotten the Ballon D'or i'm pretty sure nobody would've even questioned it.
I mean it's not that Messi's level has dropped off a cliff either, he is still absolutely amazing and does stuff that others see in their dreams.
GOAT
I dunno tbf smashing all records in his first pl season. Won the treble. Ghosted the finals but its a team sport. I can see why some feel he deserved it.
He vanished at the business end of the season. The pressure games at the end of the league campaign, the FA Cup final, the Champions League semi final and the Champions League final, he was conspicuous by his absence whereas Gundogan, Silva and others scored all the important goals.
Nevertheless, he had a fantastic debut season and he would have won but for the fact that it's a World Cup year. There has literally never been a player that has won the World Cup, won the World Cup golden ball (or been the acknowledged best player in the tournament) and not won the Ballon D'Or (if they are eligible). It has never, ever happened, and it shouldn't happen.
My opinion is that your opinion is illogical (not the part where he is not the best on the world, but that he is not even in contention and any city player is better). Maybe you should accept that other have that opinion of your opinion today and move on
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Then he and his fanatics deserve each other, they truly believe that he deserved the same amount of BD as messi lul. He is an inferior player, he should be grateful that he has a bunch of fanatics who thinks he is equal or greater than one of the 3 GOATs (nah actually some if them believed he is THE GOAT). He should already be grateful
Aye, well no point getting all bent out of shape about it. If said player wasn't playing for one of the biggest cheating teams in the sport, people might have a different opinion.
As it is, no matter what City win and really just as a matter of principle and to annoy the feck out of them and their fans, not one of their players should ever be considered for any of these awards.
I'm just glad I followed his career closely and witnessed most of those moments of magic - and boy, there's an insane amount of it. Not sure when the likes of him comes around again....
What i dont understand is that if Ronaldo is best and greatest ever. Ahead of Messi, Pelé and Maradona why was he never expected to pull off a Maradona at the wc? Platini had an infinitely better euros than Ronaldo ever had. Eusebio had a better wc. Heck so has Forlan, Modric and tons of players. He's never been the best performer at any international tournament despite playing so many. There was always absolutely massive pressure on Messi to do a Maradona. It never applied to Ronaldo despite some believing He's the greatest ever footballer.
Its def arguable, but his stats dont lie, and to lead his country to a WC at 35 is just incredible
Haaland was a shout too with the amount of goals he scored last season, but he is young and will be up for it again soon for sure. plus after his antics on Sunday ive decided he's a right c*nt
The Ronaldo thing liking that post was unbelievably petty and childish. In stark contrast to Messi's comments about their rivalry. Its stuff like that makes me so much less sorry for Ronaldo, and its not like he was even close to be in the running for it, which makes it even more petty
Haaland was a shout too with the amount of goals he scored last season, but he is young and will be up for it again soon for sure. plus after his antics on Sunday ive decided he's a right c*nt
The Ronaldo thing liking that post was unbelievably petty and childish. In stark contrast to Messi's comments about their rivalry. Its stuff like that makes me so much less sorry for Ronaldo, and its not like he was even close to be in the running for it, which makes it even more petty