Some fantastic fan fiction going on in here.
Ballon d'Or 2023 | Messi wins for 8th time
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
And I guess the subjective weighting of individualnperformances vs competitions won varies from season to season?
You have to caveat Ronaldo's win in 2014 by saying nobody stood out in a balanced Germany team as the reason Ronaldo won in a World Cup year (which is a reasonable opinion to hold on 2014), but you have the best World Cup performance in that timeframe as Messi in 2022 and it shouldn't be rewarded? Messi in the 2022 WC stood out and then some.
And I guess the subjective weighting of individualnperformances vs competitions won varies from season to season?
Yes, just like the official award does.
That’s exactly how the official award does it too.And I guess the subjective weighting of individualnperformances vs competitions won varies from season to season?
Ronaldo in 2014 won the CL and Germany won the WC. No one overlapped there, some Bayern players won WC and league but Bayern winning the league it not exactly a groundbreaking achievement imo.
Messi in 2022 won the WC, Haaland won the treble (with CL). There is a difference between the years.
It is subjective, the official one is, your idea is, mine is.
The same people that say that goals mean nothing are sometimes the first ones to say Messi should have won in 2012 because he scored a lot of goals (he only won Copa del Rey). So goals matter or they don't? Messi scored 91 goals in 2012 and Ronaldo for example 63, but those Ronaldo goals were decisive for the La Liga win (with record points and goals at that time) and reaching the semis of Euro 2012.
The difference between Messi and Ronaldo is roughly the 20 extra league goals Messi scored and the 6 extra international frendlies Messi scored. So most of Messi's goals were in dead rubber league games that didn't matter (the 11/12 part) and international friendlies.
I'm fine with giving Messi the award in 2012 for breaking the record but then you have to be aware of your own criteria, you can't say one year is very important and the other year it's irrelevant.
What are your arguments for those years? Who should have won and why?
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The irony given the Barcelona alegations
According to my opinion it should have been:
2008: Ronaldo
2009: Messi
2010: Sneijder
2011: Messi
2012: Messi / Ronaldo (Messi scored more goals but only won Copa del Rey, Ronaldo scored 30 less goals but won La Liga and reached semis of the Euro)
2013: Ribery / Robben
2014: Ronaldo (broke the CL record of goals, benefited from Germany winning the WC with a very balanced team with no one really shining individually above the others)
2015: Messi
2016: Ronaldo
2017: Ronaldo
2018: Modric
2019: Van Dijk
2021: Lewandowski
2022: Benzema
2023: Haaland
Hahaha. This guy thinks Ronaldo is better player than Messi.
Shame. Must be really difficult for some.
Inevitable. The GOAT without any hyperbole.
Yeah, it is shit. But instead of opting for consistency in the weighting of criteria, you guys demand another kind of inconsistency that coincidently works in favor of you know who.
Imagine being a passionate football fan lucky enough to witness one of the best players ever over almost two decades and instead of enjoying the show you decide to begrudge him because of a boy crush on another footballer.
What years are you talking about?
Now the only player In history to win the ballon d’or whilst playing in two different continents
The ones I mentioned earlier, 2008 to 2023.
Still waiting for your opinion. Who should have won it since to you messi is not in the conversation and you were not talking about haaland either.
Who has impressed you so much both internationally and domestically, that he should finish in front of both messi and haaland.
Guess it is hard to answer when there isn’t an answer
As subjective as it is, it is also your subjective interpretation that you think mine is more inconsistent than what several different players through 15 years years voted for.
And can you please stop the strawman argument x9000 times that if I don't think Messi deserved to win all the years he did then I dislike him and I'm trying to distort things - newsflash, I am subjective like everyone else, including you.
I never said he is a bad player, I mentioned several times he is one of the best players of all time and that I consider him equal to Ronaldo as they have their own strengths and weaknesses. Yes, for some that is an heresy because of eye tests, pre-assists and keepers defending penalties or something, I don't know.
But for the cult that is too much, I cannot say Messi is good while also saying good of Ronaldo, Haaland, or whoever is in Messi's path.
Whatever strawman arguments you want, I'll just stop posting in this thread, I brought a list and you just laugh at it without even refuting it, so keep in your subjective higher horse.
Julian Alvarez deserves it more than Haaland, player consistently well, and had the best 6 months of any player in history in terms of trophies won.
The one Messi didn't deserve the most was 2021, I think Lewandowski deserved that one. Between 2009 and 2012 he was the best footballer in the world, it was one of the highest peaks ever, culminating in that 2012 season where he scored 91 goals, it was such a historic season in achievement that he still deserved the trophy without a clearly better candidate.
Do you really think Messi was wrongly given the majority of his Ballon d'Ors? Because that's what you're claiming.
Your opinion is so far off that it can only be explained with antipathy. And I think if you're being completely honest to yourself you know that. You may think that of me as well and I can't prove to you that you're wrong but I know that I can cheer when a player produces magic even if it is a perceived 'rival' of one of my favorites. But going by the things you post, I don't think you can. Instead you bedrudgingly acknowledge what you deem undeniable but don't give away an inch more than that. What you don't see is that some of your takes already crossed the line to absurdity.
try and convince a Serbian person that Federer is better than djokovic.
Maybe if he wasn't a bench player for half of last season, he'd definitely be finishing above Haaland.
Exactly, Haaland scored so many goals because of the world class players aroubd him providing assist after assist, put him in Man Utd's current side and he would struggle to score 10.
Claiming Haaland should have won it is one of the most laughable things ever.
The irony given the Barcelona alegations
According to my opinion it should have been:
2008: Ronaldo
2009: Messi
2010: Sneijder
2011: Messi
2012: Messi / Ronaldo (Messi scored more goals but only won Copa del Rey, Ronaldo scored 30 less goals but won La Liga and reached semis of the Euro)
2013: Ribery / Robben
2014: Ronaldo (broke the CL record of goals, benefited from Germany winning the WC with a very balanced team with no one really shining individually above the others)
2015: Messi
2016: Ronaldo
2017: Ronaldo
2018: Modric
2019: Van Dijk
2021: Lewandowski
2022: Benzema
2023: Haaland
Whenever someone argues that Sneijder should have won it in 2010, thats when i know theres no point arguing anymore with them. Thats one of the worst ever football takes that are for some reason often heard or read. Thats as bad as when someone says that prime Ronaldinho was better than Messi.
You just know those people are a bit confused, or dont really watch football.
There's no point bothering.
There's never any consistency from the Ronaldo fans.
Haaland nearly has a 1/1 goals/ratio for every club he's played for. That's just nonsense. And for his country.
Pick a city player. Someone who didn’t rock up for 4 weeks and play in a farmers league for the rest of the season being outperformed hugely by Mbappe and Neymar. What is hard is when you aren’t basing a decision on the World Cup and you’re thinking…which footballer performed the best over the past 12 months and trying to think where Messi would fit in to that because to me he wouldn’t be high on my list.
Stop meithering me now. You have your opinion. You’re entitled to it. I have mine.
On which basis were Neymar and Mbappe better than Messi in Ligue 1, let alone "hugely"?
Unsurprisingly no answer still. Saw “largely outperformed by mbappe and neymar” and “pick a city player” and realized people do have agenda driven opinions. Fair enough, they are entitled to have their opinion, however illogical it is
Though they failed at every attempt before his signing.
Fair enough.
For me all his ballons were deserved when he was playing at Barcelona, but for this one he wasn’t the best player over the whole season, just for the wc. You could argue Mbappe was better in the final. Giving it for sentimental reasons degrades the status of the trophy.
Fair enough but as I said earlier Messi had more of an overall influence in games than Haaland. Messi won it because he was pivotal in winning Argentina the biggest prize of all, and their first in 36 years. And again i stress, at the ripe old age of 35. Messi deserves it.
I don't care if they won or not. They didn't deserve that if it was same situation. It is no problem. Children, kids and younger generation that follow players and not clubs are interested in those trophies. I'm not. This has no relevance to football at all and what happens on field. Just people loving fameous people and wanting to meet them in person. Everybody knows that.
Mbappé wasn’t better than Messi in the final. Go and see some compilation of each one in the final.
hahaha, "younger generation are not interested", "everybody knows that". That's just you not being able to cope with reality and trying to speak for everybody else. I bet if another player won the award, everybody would care right? You don't speak for anyone but yourself unless you have data to backup what you say. You're just a salty kid who doesn't like reality and makes up lies so it hurts less. Try to be a little bit smarter about it maybe.
Maybe I don’t think Messi is the best player in the world anymore. It’s not that hard to comprehend. Maybe I don’t think he was one of the best players in the world last year. Then for me I don’t consider him worthy of the award. Nothing more than that. You seem hung up on the issue.
great great post
I'd be embarrassed he won it this year if I were a Messi fanboy.
People complaining about Messi getting his eighth ballon d’or. He should have like 15 of them, so be happy he only got 8.
Rubbish opinionThe irony given the Barcelona alegations
According to my opinion it should have been:
2008: Ronaldo
2009: Messi
2010: Sneijder
2011: Messi
2012: Messi / Ronaldo (Messi scored more goals but only won Copa del Rey, Ronaldo scored 30 less goals but won La Liga and reached semis of the Euro)
2013: Ribery / Robben
2014: Ronaldo (broke the CL record of goals, benefited from Germany winning the WC with a very balanced team with no one really shining individually above the others)
2015: Messi
2016: Ronaldo
2017: Ronaldo
2018: Modric
2019: Van Dijk
2021: Lewandowski
2022: Benzema
2023: Haaland
I'm not arguing he should have been ahead of Messi but you are seriously underplaying his contribution last season.
Haaland's record in the bigger PL games was excellent. Against the top 10 teams below City in the final table:
G+A
2+2 Arsenal
3+2 United
1+1 Newcastle
0+0 Liverpool (1 league game only but scored against them in the Cup)
2+1 Brighton
1+1 Villa
1+0 Spurs
0+0 Brentford (1 league game only)
2+0 Fulham
4+0 Palace
16 goals + 7 assists = 23 G+A in 18 games. Minutes played 1493.
Strike rate - 1 Goal or Assist every 65 minutes.
Champions League Knock-outs he was good as well:
5+0 Leipzig
2+1 Bayern
0+0 Real Madrid (Cortois made a couple of worldie saves)