Ballon d’Or 2024 — post-Messi era

bosnian_red said:
Perceived importance? International tournaments are the most important part of a footballers career. They are infrequent and the ultimate big stage in terms of pressure so of course how players perform in them matters. Performing on the big stage is what matters most for these awards. Vini is in the discussion of course, but Brazil doing poorly in the Copa is a huge negative for him and puts him behind Rodri if Rodri wins the euros IMO. Those are the only 2 standouts currently.
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You can win the EURO by only winning 5 games, maximum of 7. That is not enough or not really that important on deciding who is the best player over an entire 50+ game season.

Vini was basically a ghost for Real Madrid from August until January. Bellingham carried them. Real wouldn't have won the league at all if it wasn't for Bellingham scoring huge winning goals for months. Just because Vini had a very good second half of the season and had more vital goals and assists in the latter stages of the CL doesn't mean he had a better season for Madrid than Bellingham.
Bellingham did more for Real this season.

Also for Rodri, swap him for most CDM's in the PL and Man City 9 times out of 10 would have still won the PL title this season.

Man City only won the league and it is arguable that Rodri was or was not the best player for City. Bellingham won the league and CL double.

England are more likely than Spain to get to the final of the EURO and if that happens then Bellingham should be nailed on to win the Ballon d'Or.
 
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bosnian_red said:
Perceived importance? International tournaments are the most important part of a footballers career. They are infrequent and the ultimate big stage in terms of pressure so of course how players perform in them matters. Performing on the big stage is what matters most for these awards. Vini is in the discussion of course, but Brazil doing poorly in the Copa is a huge negative for him and puts him behind Rodri if Rodri wins the euros IMO. Those are the only 2 standouts currently.
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It's different if there's a contender who has had a strong season and then gone on to stand out in an international tournament, but that is rarely the case. Jorginho came 3rd in the Ballon d'Or rankings a few years ago because Chelsea won the Champions League and Italy won the Euros, which makes a mockery of the whole thing. He isn't and never has been the 3rd best footballer on the planet by any metric.

This year in particular is a good reason why international tournaments shouldn't be the determining factor in these awards. The quality of football on show at the Euros has been pretty terrible, and Spain are the only team remaining who have actually played some good football. If Netherlands were to win, would we be scratching around looking for a contender from their team? It's silly.

Ballon d'Or is an individual award for the best player of that season. Rodri is a very respectable footballer and arguably the best in his position but I don't think any football fan would describe him as the best player in the world if you asked them. That shouldn't change if Spain win the Euros.
 
CM said:
It's different if there's a contender who has had a strong season and then gone on to stand out in an international tournament, but that is rarely the case. Jorginho came 3rd in the Ballon d'Or rankings a few years ago because Chelsea won the Champions League and Italy won the Euros, which makes a mockery of the whole thing. He isn't and never has been the 3rd best footballer on the planet by any metric.

This year in particular is a good reason why international tournaments shouldn't be the determining factor in these awards. The quality of football on show at the Euros has been pretty terrible, and Spain are the only team remaining who have actually played some good football. If Netherlands were to win, would we be scratching around looking for a contender from their team? It's silly.

Ballon d'Or is an individual award for the best player of that season. Rodri is a very respectable footballer and arguably the best in his position but I don't think any football fan would describe him as the best player in the world if you asked them. That shouldn't change if Spain win the Euros.
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This point on top of mine is also why Bellingham should be ahead of Rodri.
 
If Messi wins the copa, I think there’s a good chance he wins it. Not that it would be the right decision. But I can definitely see it happen.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
Not really sure what Mbappé did that stood out this season, he's had at least 3-4 better seasons and didn't seriously contend to win it in those. He didn't make CL team of the season for example, which he has made 3 other times for PSG, didn't score against Dortmund over two legs. Only really stand out big game from him so far has been Barcelona away in the quarter-finals but it came after they were down to 10 men and their heads were gone. This Euros he's done nothing, would have to suddenly score a stunning hat-trick against Spain or something, which looks unlikely as he doesn't look fully fit.
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First of all, just in case, I'm not doing predictions, just talking about my view.
I won't see it as crime if he wins, I do not see him winning it either.
That is why he is third in my order (althought as personal prefference I'll like Rodri to get it)

About Kiki, It's not easy to mantein his numbers anywhere while at the same time producing some trully remarkable plays.
From the three of them, he is the one that still looks for me from an upper echelon in terms of talent, It doesn't matter if he may had better seaons, this particular season neither of the canditates it's a clear cut standout in terms of trully day in day out great "perfomances" that goes beyond stats.

So he still has some chances when someone asks a voter (or for instance the voter asks himself): "who is the best player in the world now", that's the way many players, coaches, journos and generally people that vote see it, regardless of how the organizers of the award write their rules.
In those "terms" he still has some chances.

From the three of them, Jude still being in contention for the Euros, might edge the other two because of that if he wins the Cup.
Yet I still have Vini above for me, because if I consider the: "better player in the world right now " Vini for me is better while both had pretty similar numbers, with the Brazilian having in my view better perfomances beyond those, but I also know that Jude might run with better options with the Cup.

PD: I forgot Kiki was still in the Euros, he looks affected by his nose, the mask and some other talked injuries
 
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HTG said:
If Messi wins the copa, I think there’s a good chance he wins it. Not that it would be the right decision. But I can definitely see it happen.
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If that happens Ronaldo might actually physically explode
 
CM said:
It's different if there's a contender who has had a strong season and then gone on to stand out in an international tournament, but that is rarely the case. Jorginho came 3rd in the Ballon d'Or rankings a few years ago because Chelsea won the Champions League and Italy won the Euros, which makes a mockery of the whole thing. He isn't and never has been the 3rd best footballer on the planet by any metric.

This year in particular is a good reason why international tournaments shouldn't be the determining factor in these awards. The quality of football on show at the Euros has been pretty terrible, and Spain are the only team remaining who have actually played some good football. If Netherlands were to win, would we be scratching around looking for a contender from their team? It's silly.

Ballon d'Or is an individual award for the best player of that season. Rodri is a very respectable footballer and arguably the best in his position but I don't think any football fan would describe him as the best player in the world if you asked them. That shouldn't change if Spain win the Euros.
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Most fans are dumb. Rodri is probably the best footballer in the world, in fact I'd argue it's probably not all that close this season. His record over the past year+ is insane in terms of consistent dominance for club and country, that long undefeated record that ended in the cup final. Just because he is a holding midfielder doesn't mean he can't be the best in the world. It's some backwards logic that the best player has to be a goalscorer. Rodri is more important to club and country, and performs at a higher level on average and steps up in big games more than any of Vini, Bellingham, Haaland or Mbappe. Objectively speaking, he does his job at the highest level in the world.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
You can win the EURO by only winning 5 games, maximum of 7. That is not enough or not really that important on deciding who is the best player over an entire 50+ game season.

Vini was basically a ghost for Real Madrid from August until January. Bellingham carried them. Real wouldn't have won the league at all if it wasn't for Bellingham scoring huge winning goals for months. Just because Vini had a very good second half of the season and had more vital goals and assists in the latter stages of the CL doesn't mean he had a better season for Madrid than Bellingham.
Bellingham did more for Real this season.

Also for Rodri, swap him for most CDM's in the PL and Man City 9 times out of 10 would have still won the PL title this season.

Man City only won the league and it is arguable that Rodri was or was not the best player for City. Bellingham won the league and CL double.

England are more likely than Spain to get to the final of the EURO and if that happens then Bellingham should be nailed on to win the Ballon d'Or.
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Probably 75% of the 50-60 games a season that players play don't actually matter when it comes to Ballon dor (and for good reason I'd say). It's always the big games that matter most. They are the high pressure games, they are the ones that players need to perform in the most. Also, the Ballon D'Or is a calendar year thing, so first half of the season is pointless. And given that voting happens during the year and nothing important happens in the first half of a season, the Ballon D'Or is essentially decided by performances from March - May, or July when there's international competitions.

Strongly disagree that City win the league without Rodri. In fact they lost 3 of the 4 league games he missed for them last season. Lost their EFL cup game without him. Tiny sample size but they are a completely different team without him, as are Spain, and for me he's clear as the best midfielder in the world, and without any standout attacker, the best player in the world.
 
bosnian_red said:
Most fans are dumb. Rodri is probably the best footballer in the world, in fact I'd argue it's probably not all that close this season. His record over the past year+ is insane in terms of consistent dominance for club and country, that long undefeated record that ended in the cup final. Just because he is a holding midfielder doesn't mean he can't be the best in the world. It's some backwards logic that the best player has to be a goalscorer. Rodri is more important to club and country, and performs at a higher level on average and steps up in big games more than any of Vini, Bellingham, Haaland or Mbappe. Objectively speaking, he does his job at the highest level in the world.
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If Rodri was ever going to win it, it should've been last year following the treble season where he was Man City's most important player.

Messi won it off an international tournament instead when he did very little at club level to put him in the conversation. Sentiment played a huge part in that one after the World Cup win.

The reality of an individual award means there will always be a bias towards attacking players. Moments decide games and goals/assists are far more quantifiable than anything a holding midfielder, defender or goalkeeper can produce.

Rodri is a very good player but there's nothing exciting about what he does. Feeling means something in football, and the likes of Vinicius and Bellingham are players who are far more likely to evoke emotion from football fans than someone like Rodri.
 
Let's end this nonsensical debate. If Uruguay wins the Copa America, they must give it to Fede Valverde or it's a robbery.

An underrated, no-nonsense, all-action, throwback football player with crazy speed and power, endless cardio and the most powerful shot on earth. Madrid's best midfielder, Uruguay's best player. In fact the perfect player for Uruguay in Bielsa's high octane direct football. Having Valverde in your team is like playing with 12 men.

The anti-hero, the anti-prima donna. No PR, no hype. Journalists, do it for football, stop voting like highlights-watching social media teenagers and start voting like responsible grown men.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
Not really sure what Mbappé did that stood out this season, he's had at least 3-4 better seasons and didn't seriously contend to win it in those. He didn't make CL team of the season for example, which he has made 3 other times for PSG, didn't score against Dortmund over two legs. Only really stand out big game from him so far has been Barcelona away in the quarter-finals but it came after they were down to 10 men and their heads were gone. This Euros he's done nothing, would have to suddenly score a stunning hat-trick against Spain or something, which looks unlikely as he doesn't look fully fit.
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What?! Are you sure that you watched that game? He didn't stand out; scored a penalty and a gifted goal and nothing else worthy of note.
 
Marvin look out said:
Let's end this nonsensical debate. If Uruguay wins the Copa America, they must give it to Fede Valverde or it's a robbery.

An underrated, no-nonsense, all-action, throwback football player with crazy speed and power, endless cardio and the most powerful shot on earth. Madrid's best midfielder, Uruguay's best player. In fact the perfect player for Uruguay in Bielsa's high octane direct football. Having Valverde in your team is like playing with 12 men.

The anti-hero, the anti-prima donna. No PR, no hype. Journalists, do it for football, stop voting like highlights-watching social media teenagers and start voting like responsible grown men.
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I was thinking about Valverde when I saw Uruguay won against Brazil in the Copa and wondered if he could be the triple winner - Copa, CL, La Liga. But I am not sure if his season was flashy and good enough to win Ballon d'Or - Rodri still seems more impactful player and they're both in the unfairly underrated central midfield.
 
I don't understand not giving it to Vini because of 2 weeks, of frankly, low level football which is international football mostly (in precarious conditions most of the time, terrible fields etc). If it's a World Cup year, ok, but Copa America?
 
Malkovich said:
I don't understand not giving it to Vini because of 2 weeks, of frankly, low level football which is international football mostly (in precarious conditions most of the time, terrible fields etc). If it's a World Cup year, ok, but Copa America?
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Because Bellingham had a better season.
 
CM said:
Messi won it off an international tournament instead when he did very little at club level to put him in the conversation. Sentiment played a huge part in that one after the World Cup win.
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That's all wrong, the standards set for Messi is crazy. Nobody would win anything if they're required to do what he's doing in terms of playmaking, goalscoring, dribbling etc. in a so-called "non-satisfactory Messi season".

He had the most MOTM at 14 in Europe (Mbappe had 7 and Haaland just 6), highest per game rating, 2nd most assists in the league+UCL, 2nd most big chance creation, 2nd most successful dribbles etc. in whole Europe. On the top of that he had 68 g+a, more than anyone else. That season he was chosen as the best playmaker in the world. Now, go and find who else in the last 30 years led football world with these stats. If any other player has above stats in a season, it'd be remembered as a legendary season for decades. Yet, this is just a below average season for Messi's standards which is still better than 99% of other players. Add his iconic WC performance to the picture, it's over.

www.onefootball.com/en/news/players-with-most-man-of-the-match-trophies-in-europe-in-2223-including-messi-haaland-37660873

Mbappe had a great Ligue 1 season and a WC, and below are his stats against 35 year old Messi who supposedly did very little at the club level:

Messi vs Mbappe in Ligue 1 + UCL
40 G/A in 39 games vs Mbappe with 45 in 42 games
Highest per game rating in Europe 8.3 (vs Mbappe 7.81)
Most MOTM in Europe (14 vs Mbappe with 7)
Most assists in Ligue 1 (2nd most in Europe)
2nd most big chance creation in Europe
2nd most successful dribbles in Europe
 
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The holy trinity 68 said:
Because Bellingham had a better season.
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Not sure that's right honestly. He's been better in the league, Vini was better in CL, and all in all the second half of the season is when titles are won, plus CL >>>> League. Vini also broke Barcelona in the supercup, which it was just the supercup but it was still a clasico with a trophy on the line, and he had a hat trick

Right now it should be Vini for me. Jude beats the dutchies and frenchies(Spain ain't winning tonight :wenger:) , and it could be him
 
giorno said:
Not sure that's right honestly. He's been better in the league, Vini was better in CL, and all in all the second half of the season is when titles are won, plus CL >>>> League. Vini also broke Barcelona in the supercup, which it was just the supercup but it was still a clasico with a trophy on the line, and he had a hat trick

Right now it should be Vini for me. Jude beats the dutchies and frenchies(Spain ain't winning tonight :wenger:) , and it could be him
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Real would never have been in contention for the league title if it wasn't for Bellingham. He scored the winning goal in both Classico matches.

He scored the winning goal in the following games.

Almeria 2-1 scored both goals
Celta Viga 1-0
Getafe 2-1
Osasuna 2-0 scored both goals
Barcelona 2-1 scored both goals
Betis 1-0
Barcelona 3-2
Alaves 1-0

Union Berlin 1-0 CL group stage

So his goals contributed to 24 points in the league. If he doesn't score then Real only get 8 points and Real lose the title by 6 points. They would actually have finished 3rd on 79 points. His goal contributions were massive.

Vinicius had 4 league goals and 1 assist in 11 games from 12th August to 20th January. He had 15 goals and 6 assists in the league. Granted he only played 26/38 league games. Bellingham had 19 goals and 6 assists in 28/38 league games. But Vinicius only had the winning goal in 2 games compared to Bellingham having the winning goal in 8 games.

Vini had 4 goals and 2 assists in the knockout rounds of the CL, 3 of them 7 games he had no goals or assists though. His performances in the CL are exaggerated. 4 Champions league games shouldn't be the only decider for the Ballon D'or. I would say though that he was very good in the CL even without the goals and assists, he caused all sorts of problems for defences. Bellinghams goals and assists tapered off towards the end of the season, but he was still very influential for the team, he worked hard linking the midfield and attack while driving the team forward.
 
We scored 12 goals in the KO stages and Vini was directly involved in 8. His performances are not exaggerated. He was the best player in CL. Bellingham was the best in the League. CL >>>> League, hence Vini should be clear right now

Euro >>> CL though, so Jude still has games left to overtake him
 
giorno said:
We scored 12 goals in the KO stages and Vini was directly involved in 8. His performances are not exaggerated. He was the best player in CL. Bellingham was the best in the League. CL >>>> League, hence Vini should be clear right now

Euro >>> CL though, so Jude still has games left to overtake him
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Even with England potentially winning the Euros, it should still be Vini for me. Maybe if Bellingham plays out of his skin for the remainder of the Euros and scores another winner or two there’s an argument there but Vini for me is what the BdO should be about, attacking players who do things others can’t, take people on, provide excitement etc. Not just player A won this and that and therefore is better than player B.
 
Vini should win this, there's no question.

Bellingham winning it over Vini would be criminal unless he turns into Maradona 86 in the remaining games and wins Euros for England. He has been so mediocre for many months now.
 
devaneios said:
What?! Are you sure that you watched that game? He didn't stand out; scored a penalty and a gifted goal and nothing else worthy of note.
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I was trying to be kind to him, it’s the only big game that he made an impact.
 
brunoag4 said:
Vini should win this, there's no question.

Bellingham winning it over Vini would be criminal unless he turns into Maradona 86 in the remaining games and wins Euros for England. He has been so mediocre for many months now.
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Mbappe got far in UCL(though he didn't do much), gets far in Euro's(again, he didn't do much), but has great stats in Ligue 1 and the biggest name, if France wins it i wouldn't be surprised if he wins it.
 
Morty_ said:
Mbappe got far in UCL(though he didn't do much), gets far in Euro's(again, he didn't do much), but has great stats in Ligue 1 and the biggest name, if France wins it i wouldn't be surprised if he wins it.
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He needs to win the euros by himself from here for that

Bellingham just needs to be decisive - Mbappé needs to win by himself
 
giorno said:
He needs to win the euros by himself from here for that

Bellingham just needs to be decisive - Mbappé needs to win by himself
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If Mbappe scores the goal which knock out Spain, then scores in the final and win the euros, he probably will win it. Same for bellingham.

Doesnt really need to play out of their skins for it, just need to be decisive.

Unfair i know, but Mbappe is the current posterboy of the football world
 
If England wins, probably Bellingham (awesome in La Liga, strong UCL).
If France wins, and Mbappe actually has two great matches, he probably should get it. But only if he has really strong performances, not these awful ones.
If Spain wins, Rodri is the obvious choice.

If neither of those happen, probably Vinni Jr (best player in UCL, awesome in La Liga) or Rodri (probably the best player in the world). Messi should not be in the competition, he hasn't been that good in Copa and he is playing in cavemen's league (several levels down from farmers' league).
 
If Messi scores the winner later tonight he's gonna win it again isn't he :lol:
 
I think Dani Carvajal should get it. Is he the best player in the world? Hell no. But he arguably had the best season.
Incredibly consistent, reliable, has great leadership and fighting spirit. Added goals to his game and scored the clutch goal of the season in the UCL final.
Bellingham, Vini, Rodri or anyone else just doesn't feel right.
 
Xadek said:
I think Dani Carvajal should get it. Is he the best player in the world? Hell no. But he arguably had the best season.
Incredibly consistent, reliable, has great leadership and fighting spirit. Added goals to his game and scored the clutch goal of the season in the UCL final.
Bellingham, Vini, Rodri or anyone else just doesn't feel right.
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Yet Carvajal feels right? Are you mad
 
Rodri should win it.

Bellingham (with the Madrid PR) will win it.

Vinicius went out on a whimper with Brazil and shouldn’t win it.
 
Rodri by a distance IMO. He's the only one who has performed on the level of one who deserves it. He's by far the best around in his position, he's had that ridiculous individual unbeaten run, he plays his position better than any other player plays their own position and his teams tend to have huge drop offs without him.
 
Malkovich said:
Yet Carvajal feels right? Are you mad
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Nobody who wins this year will feel absolutely right, but Carvajal was the only one who won the League, the UCL and the Euro, being of extreme importance in all tournaments.
He was even the UCL final hero.
It would feel like when Cannavaro won it, you know he's not the best out there but you can't call it unfair.
The other choices would be farcical in my opinion.
 
I’ve no idea who should win it. No standout candidate at all this year. Just a lot of pretty good options.
 
Xadek said:
I think Dani Carvajal should get it. Is he the best player in the world? Hell no. But he arguably had the best season.
Incredibly consistent, reliable, has great leadership and fighting spirit. Added goals to his game and scored the clutch goal of the season in the UCL final.
Bellingham, Vini, Rodri or anyone else just doesn't feel right.
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Carvajal is a good shout tbf.
 
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