Baby elephant is growing quickly in the room
- Thread starter sammsky1
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It's clear he has not settled in yet, give him time and he will become a great player for us.
Sorry, double post.
How can you possibly not include Patrice in a list which includes water carriers like Di Matteo and jokes like Ravanelli
A reasonable list, I agree, but longer on quantity than quality - I'd suggest quality and quantity....
And not too many actual Italians. Yes, I know....PP isn't Italian !
Well Pogba isn't Italian.
The point i think this is all bollocks is this: is there any particular nation from which, as a norm, players arriving here do not go through some sort of adaptation period?
It is bollocks. FFS, even players moving within the league sometimes have to adapt.
Im looking for a list of players who learned their core skills aged 18-22 in Italy who subsequently made it big in the EPL. Probably not many.
Anyways, I maybe wrong. Im simply trying to find reasons for Pogba's average shiteness that makes sense to me.
My point is about about players learning foundational professional level skills aged 18-22 in Serie A. Is their evidence of those types of players successfully adjusting to elite EPL football?
Eg: SAF had a bias for Scandinavian and Dutch players because he believed those more likely to make the transition to Manchester United.
How many great players even arrived to the Premier League after learning their core skills between 18-22 in Italy?
You want to find a reason? Simple he's adjusting to a new league and new team
I totally accept the lad has to adapt to a new league and a new team, I've no problem with that.
My big problem with Pogba is all those calling for him to be signed said he'd dominate midfield. He's never going to do that. I still don't see what people see in him.
My big problem with Pogba is all those calling for him to be signed said he'd dominate midfield. He's never going to do that. I still don't see what people see in him.
I think he has the ability to do so. He's only 23 anyway. Can't remember many midfielders dominating games at that age. They usually peak at 26-32.
Once he settles into the team and the team finds it's shape I think he will be a big asset for us going forward. Fans just need to be patient for now I think
Past few weeks there's been threads about sacking Mourinho, Mourinho resign watch, Pogba labelled baby elephant after 6 or so games, Mkhitaryan getting sold etc.....all seems a bit nuts to me.
that's what all his fanboi's promised instant domination. Foolishly I bought the hype.
£90m later we seem to have ended up with a young kid who is still years away from full potential. The fact he did well in Italy surrounded by well drilled world class midfielders is no guarantee whatsoever he will make it in the English Premier league.
"Pogba isn't going to dominate midfield" should be your tagline, would save you having to repeat it after every game
If you're talking about past Serie A players that successfully made it over here, don't you have to bear in mind that Serie A used to be on a par, or even above, the Premier League whereas now it is a second tier league (apart from one team that Pogba played for)?
So if the hypothesis is correct, then its even more worrying.
Its only a hypothesis, but it makes sense to me.
Why only from Italy. There are many who came from worse league than Italy and had superb careers. Just to name 4 examples, last 4 out of 5 PFA player of the year award winners.
Because Italian football played at a slower pace and to me it seems Pogba's key issue is adapting the the speed required in the EPL
Serie A was better than PL, much better till mid 2000s. So only few players moved out of that league. So whatever the examples, the sample size would be very small.
There are players from inferior league than Serie A like French league, Dutch league, Portuguese league and they were superb in PL. How many of these leagues are as fact paced as PL?
Evra? He played in England before he ever played in Italy. Although I did forget to include Edwin van der Sar, so I'm still a scumbag
. Desailly has to be filed under quality as well - he's surely one of the top 10 centre backs to play in the Premier League - and if the likes of Alexis are dumped in the quantity bin you're setting the bar pretty high.Nope. Though from that list in my initial post, Vieira, Henry and Alexis Sanchez all played in Italy between the ages of 18 and 22. Played in Italy between 18-22 then 'adjusted at the very highest levels' in England is such a narrow criteria though. Serie A clubs weren't generally in a financial position to necessitate selling their top prospects to English clubs until quite recently, so the sample size is low.
I don't understand. You say he does have to adapt to a new league and team but at the same time you don't see what people see in him?
I think he has actually been good this season. He hasn't been a 90m midfielder (because that wouldn't be possible) but he has played well in midfield in most games.
Probably, Pogba is overrated. But you lose credibility when you say stuff like he is 'very average'. Pogba's technical skills and output stats, even this season, cannot be considered average, never mind 'very average'- whatever that means. When you say stuff like that, it begins to look like you see him through a twisted lense; you do not see him for what he is.
As for the 18-22 theory: on what basis have you come up with this age range for development of critical skills? Why not 19-23, or 17-21? Is it because 18-22 fits in with Pogba's development trajectory and time in Italy? Furthermore, are you really suggesting that, once developed, players can't make adjustments to adapt to a different pace of play? What does this imply, then, if, for example, the manager decides to change style of play? That it will never work with players over 22?
Totally agree, our fans are idiots at times and I feel that the whole Facebook and Twitter banter type thing you see nowadays has a big part to play when you see paddypower putting up pics of mourinho morphed onto LVGs face etc people actually take it to heart.
Nuts is an understatement, this pretty much sums up this message board over the past 4-6 weeks, it's become depressing and has highlighted how many fools are on this forum.
It's actually embarrassing that we have so many thick fans.
I see Pogba very clearly: the worlds most expensive player beating Suarez, Ronaldo and Bale and a red cafe record breaking thread where ITK fanbois promised he would smash it in the EPL from game no 1.
18-22 because SAF once said that.
Mourinho also recently said he expected a transition period for Pogba.
Last point is specifically on Serie A.
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He also
He also said Wes Brown was better than Rio.
Well he's said some real shit.
But then he's said things like Giggs was like a dog chasing pussy in the wind. Which was dead on
Paper. I meant paper
I would put Vialli in that list too.
Yep. He also thought Alan Smith was Roy Keane's natural successor in midfield....
My point is I'm perfectly happy to give him time to adapt, it's unfair to expect him to hit the ground running. However even when he does adapt I just don't expect too much from him, I don't believe the hype.
Tbf the record breaking thread became more about the posters wanting it to become a record breaking thread. Don't think it was all about the ITK fanboys....
Can't quite remember SAF ever specifically saying anything about 18-22. When did he say this?
If Mourinho says he needs time to make the transition, then why do you doubt him?
So your gripe is with some people in the Internet rather than Pogba himself. In another 1000 posts, maybe the whole forum will come to realize this.
The price tag has sent the hype up a few notches. But He's a brilliant player and much better quality than anything we had. The problem being is most expect him to fix our midfield when in reality he's only part of the solution (but the hardest part to buy). We need 1-2 players of similar levels of quality but who'd compliment his skill set to allow him to flourish. We need someone to dictate our Tempo/play (Kroos and a sitter who can also pass well) yes that's more money but that's life. Right now we have Carrick and Bastian as our best fits but both won't/can't play every week for different reasons but the in common reason is they are past their best as those two in their prime would be the best midfield pairing alongside Pogba in Europe.
I was thinking about it the other day and I think on talent alone he's probably the best player I've seen since Ronaldo left. He does the occasional thing in a game where I just sit there and think, 'there's not many players in the world could have done that' but that then makes it all the more frustrating when he is unable to stamp his mark onto a game and makes himself look lazy. Ultimately tho, I think talent rules out, and he will eventually start really tearing up this league and the comments made by opposition (and some Utd fans) right at this moment will be proven to look very silly indeed.
Aye, Vialli finished out his career at Chelsea quite strongly too.
I just don't see what everyone else sees. Including Mourinho obviously.
We need to aspire to have the best midfield in Europe, I agree. I just don't think Pogba would be part of the best midfield in Europe.
Evra? He played in England before he ever played in Italy. Although I did forget to include Edwin van der Sar, so I'm still a scumbag
Evra played in Italy before he ever played in France.
Times have changed, I bet if we had an 18 year old Ronaldo in the team now many of them would want him dropped. I think while the winning came easy and the trophies stacked up people didn't care if they had a sloppy game.
Now every touch and pass is under the microscope, They expect everything to be flawless.
Well I'll be damned. I thought he started out at Nice, but Wiki confirms otherwise.
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