It was a particularly bad point that undermined an otherwise interesting post. It was always going to be pointed out. Ranger's non-Catholic policy was was right up there with Zenit's stance on blacks and gays in terms of spite and divisiveness, and using it in support of Bilbao's policy pretty much justified why there is a debate to be had.
Athletic Bilbao's player recruitment policy
- Thread starter Rozay
- Start date
It was a particularly bad point that undermined an otherwise interesting post. It was always going to be pointed out. Ranger's non-Catholic policy was was right up there with Zenit's stance on blacks and gays in terms of spite and divisiveness, and using it in support of Bilbao's policy pretty much justified why there is a debate to be had.
da gawd said:Pat_Mustard said:
You've all took that sentence out of context, sparked by that American that has no idea what he is talking about when it comes to Athletic Club. I never once compared the two policies in terms of merit; rather I was pointing out that this policy has never been formally written, just like the one of Rangers. It was the first one that came to mind, and unlike Zenit St. Petersburg where a supporter group actually made a manifesto that was published and made for everyone to see. I referred to it when I quoted the ignorant post of "adexkola" when he called people hypocrites for admiring one policy, and making the other look like villains. I said:
da gawd said:
Now, as far as I am aware of I know that more than 15 Catholic footballers played for Rangers Football Club before Graeme Souness bought Mo Johnston who in 1989 was the first to publicly admit his Catholic faith. The others didn't. But the point was that the policy was unwritten and was never formally recognized by the club which made me want to use it as a reference point. I do not really care for the Old Firm or Sectarianism for all that matters, but then again their policy can be compared to the also unwritten policy of Beitar Jerusalem, who for more than 75 years refused to play Arabs in their squad.
I never once used Rangers' policy to support the policy of Athletic Club. Because firstly, they select based on two extremely different qualities. Secondly, one is actually positive whereas the other is negative. Thirdly, I'm not stupid. There is a reason why I only said in a passing comment that it is unwritten, because it seemed to me that many of you thought that it was an officially recognized policy that has been legislated. It is simply continuing the tradition from the early 1900s where this was arguably the only way to keep the club sustainable.
adexkola said:
Really, just rehashing points? Now I am not an arrogant douche, but I can assure you that my posts are actually much more than simple "rehashing". Just look back to the first page and see what Rado_N thankfully posted on my behalf. And then you look at my second post, where I actually enlighten quite a few of you. But no, I'm simply rehashing points because it was already pointed out that the club had more ties to the community, that Athletic Club had guidelines on becoming a part of their club, that others differentiated between La Masia and the Lezama, that there was a massive difference between the policy of Zenit and Athletic Club, that others provided quotes of former footballers that were rejected by Bilbao between 20-50 years ago, that the purpose of the Lezama was to promote Euskadi principles of football, that Athletic Club follows the laws of their autonomous government and that they have support from Basque banks, that showing there are even Blacks in Athletic Club's cantera, and that Athletic Club have no tax debt because of their tradition. It was already posted by people like you that are so knowledgeable of world football, and I was too stupid to see such great posts.
Way to completely mis-interpret some sentences again, though. You tried to read to much into what I was rather clearly saying and yet again, you've made yourself look like an imbecile. But yeah, the imaginary comparison takes the cake. The cake in question belonging to the apparently invisible Black Basque player that plays for Athletic Club. Because by default these Black Basques are excluded from Atlético Madrid's () squad, so we're just going to take their cake.
The newbie has replied.
It occurred to me just now, that the English Leagues have had largely the same Youth policy for the last 2 decades with the 90 minute rule...
Does Athletic Bilbao spend money on transfers? If not. Then they are approximately as racist as the UK was up until last year.
Does Athletic Bilbao spend money on transfers? If not. Then they are approximately as racist as the UK was up until last year.
Not really. That was a rule imposed by the FA to try and stop teams from taking all the best young talent from all over the UK. They can still ship in players from abroad. It wasn't the clubs deciding they didn't want players from different backgrounds.
Athletic Club does accept players from different backgrounds, as long as they have links to the area.
Your right though, if it went to court (european or otherwise) motivation would play a part.
I'm amazed it's never been challenged in this day and age.
Seems a long-time ago now that Athletic Bilbao’s policy could attract criticism for its supposed lack of diversity. Incredible run from Williams.
I find it incredible they've never been relegated with this policy in their history.
Newcastle with a team of Geordies (or people from North east area) wouldn't last long at all in premier league and Liverpool with just a squad of 20 players from Merseyside or even North West would be bottom half.
Man. United with Rashford and Greenwood upfront would be o.k though.
Fun game to do for most prem teams.
Newcastle with a team of Geordies (or people from North east area) wouldn't last long at all in premier league and Liverpool with just a squad of 20 players from Merseyside or even North West would be bottom half.
Man. United with Rashford and Greenwood upfront would be o.k though.
Fun game to do for most prem teams.
If this were here he would have been convinced by the fans and media that he is fatigued and needs a rest long before then.
I mean, admirable they only want their own, if not a touch xenophobic. But surely they realise this strategy massively limits their prospects of ever winning anything? What do the fans think? Or is it just deeply ingrained in the clubs culture & never questioned?
Isn’t Griezmann eligible to play for them?
Isn’t Griezmann eligible to play for them?
It is no different than any other national side. The only difference is that they play club football. Wales doing well in recent years means all the more to them as they recognise they are a small, but proud nation. I imagine the Basques feel similar.
I'll try to do Chelsea with Greater London players who are still playing.`
Bettinelli
James Chalobah Guehi Aina
Gallagher Rice CHO
RLC
Tammy Broja
Not sure they'd get relegated but not amazing.
they won the most league titles after Madrid, Barca and Atletico and they're second only to Barca when it comes to Copa del Rey trophies. it's a brilliant record actually.
It would be extremely strange for people that have never known the club without this rule complain about it, they don't have to support this club. And it's a successful club.
They were in two cup finals (played two weeks apart) just recently, and just a year or two ago there were five basque clubs in La Liga. It's a big footballing region, and a lot of smaller clubs, like A LOT of smaller clubs feed players into the Athletic system, so they have a great setup. Whilst there's a limit to where you can recruit from, there's an upside in loyalty from players. Like a lot of local players dream about playing for Athletic, and really talented players like Iñaki Williams (who signed a NINE-year deal), Iker Muniain etc end up spending their entire career there. It's been a while since they won the league, but they're still the 8th most successful Spanish team in the league, and played in two Copa del Rey finals (played two weeks apart) earlier this year. Biggest problem is that even when they have a strong lineup, there's usually one or two troublesome positions. Like striker at Aduriz left.
Griezmann isn't really eligible, but I don't think there's an official stance on it.
There was a whole debate about it, since some felt he was eligible through playing for Real Sociedad from the age of 14, but usually players who have no connection to basque country, will have to have moved there from a younger age. In the end there was no interest from Griezmann, so the debate quieted down.
No doubt it’s an incredible record, but it’s not really comparable to that in terms of population sizes though. The Basque Country is far bigger in size and population.
The poster above summed it up much better than I was about to though. I love the fact that players that beat us years ago are still in that team, like Munian and De Marcos.
Agree about the striker situation. Maybe they need to hope parents of a young Messi will move there and get into their youth system. Think they do need that bit of luck with their recruitment.
Always feel Munian has not progressed as well as he should. Maybe just happy being a Bilbao player so didn't have that drive. De Marcos is on the bench more often than not now, but is still useful. He is well respected by his teammates and fans alike.
The estimated population of the Basque Country is 2.1 million
The estimated population of the greater Manchester area is 2.8 million
Yeah, close to 3.2M according to Wikipedia. Where did the 2.1M come from, @RedRoach?I very much apologise. Wiki gave me a different figure for the Basque Country
There is 2.1m in Spain, the rest is in France and Navarre.
I think they need to adjust how they work with strikers tbh. If you look outside of Aduriz, Williams is the only player other than Raúl García to surpass 10 goals in a season for almost 10 years. García also takes a lot of penalties to get 10+ goals. I think Susaeta had a season of 10+ goals too, but then it's all the way back to Llorente. Think Llorente was the only one with 10+ goals for quite a few seasons too.
There's a lot of really promising young attacking players coming through at the moment, but none of them are particularly prolific strikers. Most of them are wide players, so could end up with a wide players being pushed further forward again, like with Iñaki Williams. There's quite a few players in or close to the first team at the moment that should have goals in them though, but the most promising player in terms of goals in recent years is Villalibre, but he hasn't really converted that into goals for the first team so far.
Like the look of Inaki little brother Nico. I always think of Inaki as a wide man. Garcia like a number of players are getting older, so have to hope the younger players they are trying to integrate into the side are the business. I like Villalibre, not sure of the beard, he is in and out of the side, is that a good idea. Maybe he needs to stick with him so he can find his feet. Giving up stupid late goals is a problem as well. They are hard to beat, but struggle to hold onto a win. Not scoring enough goals puts them at risk. Think they are on Freesport this Friday against Alaves, so that should be interesting.
The fans love the policy - they'd rather play in 2nd division than change it but in fact they still manage to compete with the Basque only policy which is amazing
Lizarazu played for them for a bit - it was controversial as hes born in the French basque country
Great story with IÑAKI WILLIAMS as there had been accusations of racism/xenophobia with the Basque only policy, but this shows that its even open to immigrants to the Basque area. He's born in Bilbao to Ghanaian parents and even represented the Basque national team who are an unofficial national team https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_Country_national_football_team
In this day and age the fact that the Basque only policy is still going and bilbao havent relaxed it slightly to include Spainish players only is incredible. How they manage to compete season after season like this is crazy.
Good luck to them, it still makes them somewhat of a special club.
They are an absolute b*stard to manage and be successful with in Football Manager though.
Good luck to them, it still makes them somewhat of a special club.
They are an absolute b*stard to manage and be successful with in Football Manager though.
I never understood why Lizarazu was never fully accepted by the fans. If they identify themselves primarily as Basque then why does it matter which side of the border of Basque country he is from?
They do relax the norms to fit any player with some sort of Basque connection no matter how small or distant, they also feed from other players from their region even from their rivals Real Sociedad. The whole region in general produce a lot of players, not just Athletic so that's what I find admirable but not so much their approach and I still prefer Real Sociedad to them, who also produce the vast majority of their players but also have foreign players in their mix.
I think sociedad lost something when they allowed foreign players in. They should have expanded to Spainish only. Yes I know it can be seen as xenophobic but there are so many football clubs in the world and so very few who still pursue a policy such as this, that it makes them stand out and makes them different to the norm of all other clubs.
What would be really interesting is if bilbao ever produced a player who could be regarded as a all time great and who was fiercely loyal to the club. Could they create the squad around the said player to get the best out of him? Tall order indeed.
Pretty huge difference, there. They’re a club side actively restricting any other people from playing for them. National teams don’t have a choice, it’s in the name.
As much as I love seeing kids come through the ranks, I'd hate it if Chelsea excluded non-English people or whatever the regional equivalent would be.
No Zola, no Drogba, no Kante? Imagine Man United with no Best, no Cantona, no Alex Ferguson? feck that.
Also, can you legally exclude people based on their heritage? Feels icky to me.
No Zola, no Drogba, no Kante? Imagine Man United with no Best, no Cantona, no Alex Ferguson? feck that.
Also, can you legally exclude people based on their heritage? Feels icky to me.
It wouldn't be exclusion though would it. It would be that no one without Basque connection is selected.
People without a Basque connection are excluded, aren't they?
Plenty of national teams self-restrict who they select too, when there are multiple FAs within one single country. England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are obvious examples. Denmark and the Faroe Islands are two more.
Club sides in Europe already 'actively restrict other people from playing for them' by imposing hard limits on how many non-EU players can be part of the squad.
The clubs don't impose those limits. They are forced to adhere to them, big difference.
They're pretty dumb rules as well, let's be honest.
Indeed.
I don't think this difference matters much. The broader point is that football does not exist in an open borders context. There's plenty of discriminatory policies that exist in football that are much more normalized to fans because that's just how they're used to things. That is why the Basque policy "feels icky."
The only discriminatory policy that should exist in club football when it comes to getting picked or not is "you're too shit to play for us".
If your son was excluded from a club because of his heritage or where he was born, that's bullshit.
A non-EU player does not get excluded from a club just because of where they are from. If they're good enough they'll get picked/bought/signed and the club will get rid of the worse player.