Athletic Bilbao's player recruitment policy

[Bestie07]

I do see your point to an extent. Club football would be a much poorer and more predictable spectacle if every club did this, then of course you'd have vexed questions as to what reasonably defines a 'region'.

However I do like seeing a club with such a clear and unique identity. Would you not agree that having some tangible, on the pitch link to the local community is a good thing? I love Utd having native Mancs in the squad, and I still consider Celtic's 1967 European Cup win with 10 players born within a few miles of the stadium as being a tremendous achievement. Also I admire clubs that really place an emphasis on youth development. So much the better if it benefits the local community rather than just hoovering up the most promising kids from around the world.

Of course, having a team of local players rising to the echelons of football is what every fan dreams of. Another argument that can be made is that younger players will learn more if they get to play with better players. Take Barcelona for example, who have got perfectly close ties with the community, try to bring through youth, but if a player who is obviously better than the alternatives they have got available, they go for him.

 

[Dion]

So if Zenit restricted it's player pool to people who have Cossack ancestors, eliminating the possibility of a black player playing for them

Man with Cossack ancestors marries black lady
they have a baby
?
Profit

 

[Rood]

Everyone!

oh wait... That cant be discrimination then

Exactly

that is now 2 posters who have been crying about discrimination in this thread who have disappeared when asked who exactly is being discriminated against!

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Of course, having a team of local players rising to the echelons of football is what every fan dreams of. Another argument that can be made is that younger players will learn more if they get to play with better players. Take Barcelona for example, who have got perfectly close ties with the community, try to bring through youth, but if a player who is obviously better than the alternatives they have got available, they go for him.

I'd agree with that.

As far as Bilbao go, I guess my feelings are that there's plenty of clubs on the other end of the spectrum with crap youth development systems and no discernible link to their locality. Bilbao provide an interesting counterbalance to that and as there's no suggestion that their policy is going to become more widespread I just choose to admire the positives from their approach.

Chesterlestreet's post was a cracker I must say.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I do see your point to an extent. Club football would be a much poorer and more predictable spectacle if every club did this, then of course you'd have vexed questions as to what reasonably defines a 'region'.

However I do like seeing a club with such a clear and unique identity. Would you not agree that having some tangible, on the pitch link to the local community is a good thing? I love Utd having native Mancs in the squad, and I still consider Celtic's 1967 European Cup win with 10 players born within a few miles of the stadium as being a tremendous achievement. Also I admire clubs that really place an emphasis on youth development. So much the better if it benefits the local community rather than just hoovering up the most promising kids from around the world.

Absolutely. And we love Danny Welbeck more than the next bloke because he's a local lad - it's perfectly natural, and it ain't remotely xenophobic or nationalist or anything-ist, unless you want to start accusing a fecker for preferring his own brother to a perfect stranger...But we don't have a policy of not signing players who don't have some kind affiliation to Manchester (which would be...what? the present metropolitan county, or the old city, or the supposed area around some bloody Roman fortress...)? I don't know, to me the grand idea of promoting a more or less random geographic area as...something, something significant and binding, as it were, seems like folly. Regardless of history and oppression and all the rest of it. To me they're all people. You're born somewhere, can't bloody well avoid it. Then it's up to you what you make of a "heritage" that is alternatively denied you, ignored or in some cases stuffed down yer throat.

 

[Bestie07]

I'd agree with that.

As far as Bilbao go, I guess my feelings as that there's plenty of clubs on the other end of the spectrum with crap youth development systems and no discernible link to their locality. Bilbao provide an interesting counterbalance to that and as there's no suggestion that their policy is going to become more widespread I just choose to admire the positives from their approach.

Chesterlestreet's post was a cracker I must say.

I don't disagree with you at all. Athletic's policy has a lot of positives for the Basque region as many players who wouldn't otherwise be playing in the top division get to play there. Take for example, the useless lump of a striker they put on when they took Llorente against us. But there could have been another better player who could have been put on in his place and he didn't get an opportunity to play in a European quarter final against Manchester United because of this. These are the sort of games that players work all their life to play in. And somebody perhaps more deserving could have got that chance.

I think we are both understanding each other's points, and Chesterlestreet's post is indeed a cracker, and I agree with every word of it. It should be on top of the page as I missed it the first time with it being the last post on the previous page.

 

[Dion]

Absolutely. And we love Danny Welbeck more than the next bloke because he's a local lad - it's perfectly natural, and it ain't remotely xenophobic or nationalist or anything-ist, unless you want to start accusing a fecker for preferring his own brother to a perfect stranger...But we don't have a policy of not signing players who don't have some kind affiliation to Manchester (which would be...what? the present metropolitan county, or the old city, or the supposed area around some bloody Roman fortress...)? I don't know, to me the grand idea of promoting a more or less random geographic area as...something, something significant and binding, as it were, seems like folly. Regardless of history and oppression and all the rest of it. To me they're all people. You're born somewhere, can't bloody well avoid it. Then it's up to you what you make of a "heritage" that is alternatively denied you, ignored or in some cases stuffed down yer throat.

The Spanish "regionality" is much stronger than the English one. A more fitting example than Manchester would be Celtic only bringing through/buying Scottish players.

If a club said "right, we're going to dedicate ourselves to bringing through players for the England national team and only use players who are eligible for that" I doubt many people would complain. It's not about discriminating against anyone who isn't Basque, it's about being a positive and proactive part of their culture.

 

[Dion]

But there could have been another better player who could have been put on in his place and he didn't get an opportunity to play in a European quarter final against Manchester United because of this.

You could say exactly the same about Danny Welbeck, if you look hard enough there are foreign players who will be better and cheaper in the long run than him but he's a local lad and he understands and loves United. That means far more than a slight gap in ability sometimes, would you honestly swap Welbeck for someone like Benteke or Lukaku?

There is nothing wrong with only having players who are part of your heritage.

 

[Ekeke]

We signed Hargreaves over Senna because we preferred to sign an English player. What a terrible club

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The Spanish "regionality" is much stronger than the English one. A more fitting example than Manchester would be Celtic only bringing through/buying Scottish players.

If a club said "right, we're going to dedicate ourselves to bringing through players for the England national team and only use players who are eligible for that" I doubt many people would complain. It's not about discriminating against anyone who isn't Basque, it's about being a positive and proactive part of their culture.

Yes, that's what many would say. The principle of it is dubious, though. There's no shortage of more or less rational arguments - though your example provides no such argument: There's no Basque national state at the moment. Basque football is, at the national level, identical to Spanish football.

 

[Dion]

Yes, that's what many would say. The principle of it is dubious, though. There's no shortage of more or less rational arguments - though your example provides no such argument: There's no Basque national state at the moment. Basque football is, at the national level, identical to Spanish football.

Which is where the strength of regional pride comes in to it. With no Basque national side the responsibility to represent the Basque people as a footballing entity has been taken on my Bilbao. That is where the Manchester example falls down, as much as most Mancs like to pretend, there isn't a drive to be that representative of Manchester as a footballing entity.

 

[manutddjw]

I agree that the practice of hiring based on location is discrimatory, but all examples that have been brought forth to use against Bilbao's policy are not applicable because this is football.

In football very few players get to choose who they play for and if being selective about who you choose to bring into the team is deplorable, than I guess every team is deplorable for turning down players for reasons such as size, which like birthplace, the player has no control over. Besides, of the very few players in the world who could pick any club they'd want to play for (Messi, Ronaldo,etc), I'm sure Bilbao wouldn't even be in the running.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

We signed Hargreaves over Senna because we preferred to sign an English player. What a terrible club

There's an enormous difference between a pragmatic choice and a principal one, surely you can see that? We may have had all sorts of reasons to prefer X over Y, his cultural background may even have had something to do with it. That will always be the case in individual...er, cases. But they are individual, that's the point. There's no declared policy of only signing a certain kind of player.

 

[Bestie07]

You could say exactly the same about Danny Welbeck, if you look hard enough there are foreign players who will be better and cheaper in the long run than him but he's a local lad and he understands and loves United. That means far more than a slight gap in ability sometimes, would you honestly swap Welbeck for someone like Benteke or Lukaku?

There is nothing wrong with only having players who are part of your heritage.

To be honest, if we didn't already have RVP and Rooney, I would. I'm not here to argue about Welbeck's qualities, once he manages to gain some composure he'll be a beast of a player. He's happy to play the role of 4th striker at the moment which the other two you mentioned won't so that's not exactly a fair comparison. And you won't find many better 4th strikers at any other club in the world. Your post is extremely harsh on Welbeck. And I can't believe that a United fan would post that after his performances against Madrid.

But the point I've repeatedly made is that if there are players of similar quality available, then by all means go for the local lad. They will find it easier to assimilate to the club, and the league. Just don't ignore the significantly better talents out there who deserve a chance.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I agree that the practice of hiring based on location is discrimatory, but all examples that have been brought forth to use against Bilbao's policy are not applicable because this is football.

In football very few players get to choose who they play for and if being selective about who you choose to bring into the team is deplorable, than I guess every team is deplorable for turning down players for reasons such as size, which like birthplace, the player has no control over. Besides, of the very few players in the world who could pick any club they'd want to play for (Messi, Ronaldo,etc), I'm sure Bilbao wouldn't even be in the running.

Those are matters of qualification, which apply to all players, regardless of what region they hail from (in one or another deeply absurd sense). Preferring tall player or short player or left footed player isn't a matter of discrimination in any meaningful sense.

 

[Sarni]

I don't disagree with you at all. Athletic's policy has a lot of positives for the Basque region as many players who wouldn't otherwise be playing in the top division get to play there. Take for example, the useless lump of a striker they put on when they took Llorente against us. But there could have been another better player who could have been put on in his place and he didn't get an opportunity to play in a European quarter final against Manchester United because of this. These are the sort of games that players work all their life to play in. And somebody perhaps more deserving could have got that chance.

I think we are both understanding each other's points, and Chesterlestreet's post is indeed a cracker, and I agree with every word of it. It should be on top of the page as I missed it the first time with it being the last post on the previous page.

Yes, because there are so few clubs in the world that the better player you're talking about will struggle to find one because Athletic Club wouldn't buy him.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Which is where the strength of regional pride comes in to it. With no Basque national side the responsibility to represent the Basque people as a footballing entity has been taken on my Bilbao. That is where the Manchester example falls down, as much as most Mancs like to pretend, there isn't a drive to be that representative of Manchester as a footballing entity.

I don't know anyone who would like Manchester to become an independent national state, no. That is a difference, one practically drowned in all sorts of history - I recognize that. But Bilbao are a club team. One that play in one of the biggest leagues in Europe, compete in pan-European tournaments, etc. That, too, is a significant factor.

 

[Dion]

To be honest, if we didn't already have RVP and Rooney, I would. I'm not here to argue about Welbeck's qualities, once he manages to gain some composure he'll be a beast of a player. He's happy to play the role of 4th striker at the moment which the other two you mentioned won't so that's not exactly a fair comparison. And you won't find many better 4th strikers at any other club in the world. Your post is extremely harsh on Welbeck. And I can't believe that a United fan would post that after his performances against Madrid.

But the point I've repeatedly made is that if there are players of similar quality available, then by all means go for the local lad. They will find it easier to assimilate to the club, and the league. Just don't ignore the significantly better talents out there who deserve a chance.

I think you're getting side tracked, I was tempted not to include names at all as I knew people would have a freak out although I'd be amazed if people don't think Lukaku and Benteke are better players and would be more deserving if "ability" was the only deciding factor. The point is that it isn't wrong to value things like culture above ability, in it's most technical sense it's discrimination but that includes virtually everything that involves taking more than one thing into consideration. Not all discrimination is harmful, a pub team who only pick people who drink at one pub are discriminating against everyone who doesn't drink at that one bar in theory except in real terms they aren't, they simply want to represent their pub.

It's the same with Bilbao, they're simply there to represent their culture. They aren't declaring that their culture is better than anyone elses, it's simply proving a vehicle for Basque players who want to play football and represent their culture. They aren't doing it because they don't like any other culture, they're doing it because they want to represent their own culture as a footballing entity. Zenit fans are doing it because they don't like blacks and gays, there is nothing positive about what they're trying to represent and to simply say "it's discrimination, therefore it's wrong" isn't a great way to look at things. When you chose to represent anything you're automatically discriminating against someone else, you have to look past the word and into the motivation and if anyone can honestly look at the Zenit supporters motivation and Bilbao's and say they're even remotely similar then I despair.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Exactly

that is now 2 posters who have been crying about discrimination in this thread who have disappeared when asked who exactly is being discriminated against!

Ive not disappeared, and it discriminates against anyone not from the basque region. Personally I dont give a feck in all honesty, the only people its going to affect is the club and its supporters, I just dont like the way one particular form of discrimination is held up and lauded as wonderful, whilst others are frowned upon and legislated against. Either all prejudice is wrong, or none is. It really is that simple.

Anyway, neither side is going to change its mind so Im gone.

 

[Bestie07]

Yes, because there are so few clubs in the world that the better player you're talking about will struggle to find one because Athletic Club wouldn't buy him.

Number of spots available at the top clubs are limited, and because of the knock on effect, somebody somewhere is losing out. Of course, it's such a small percentage that you are chosing to ignore that. If more clubs followed that you would realize my point.

 

[Ekeke]

There's an enormous difference between a pragmatic choice and a principal one, surely you can see that? We may have had all sorts of reasons to prefer X over Y, his cultural background may even have had something to do with it. That will always be the case in individual...er, cases. But they are individual, that's the point. There's no declared policy of only signing a certain kind of player.

We prefered an English player on that occasion

 

[Dion]

I don't know anyone who would like Manchester to become an independent national state, no. That is a difference, one practically drowned in all sorts of history - I recognize that. But Bilbao are a club team. One that play in one of the biggest leagues in Europe, compete in pan-European tournaments, etc. That, too, is a significant factor.

You'd have a point if Bilbao demanded a place in one of the biggest leagues in the world and a Champions League spot to represent their culture, except they don't. They simply do it and what happens, happens. If they don't do a very good job of raising Basque players or if the Basque people stop feeling the desire to represent their culture in that way they'll go down and out of the leagues.

 

[Amir]

I don't have much of a problem with that. If a club would sign most players but discriminate against a certain type of people, that would be wrong - like an Israeli club who only recently signed muslim players for the first time (and saw their season disintegrate with fan protests, etc). But Bilbao are simply about signing local players, which seems fine to me.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

We prefered an English player on that occasion

Er, yes. Quite. I might be uncommonly stupid but I fail to see how that in any way refutes my point.

 

[manutddjw]

We're making a big deal out of a nothing issue.

I've outlined earlier the positives of this policy on a for all intents and purposes , mid-table club, in a league with 2 juggernauts who don't allow others to grow. I don't see the harm in what theyre doing either to non basque people who could complain about discrimination.

If you're good enough to be playing top flight football, if Bilbao doesn't want you cause you're not basque, there are literally hundreds of clubs in the world that you could play for. It's not like if Bilbao reject a player because he's not basque that his career is over and you'll never play football again.

 

[Bestie07]

I think you're getting side tracked, I was tempted not to include names at all as I knew people would have a freak out although I'd be amazed if people don't think Lukaku and Benteke are better players and would be more deserving if "ability" was the only deciding factor. The point is that it isn't wrong to value things like culture above ability, in it's most technical sense it's discrimination but that includes virtually everything that involves taking more than one thing into consideration. Not all discrimination is harmful, a pub team who only pick people who drink at one pub are discriminating against everyone who doesn't drink at that one bar in theory except in real terms they aren't, they simply want to represent their pub.

It's the same with Bilbao, they're simply there to represent their culture. They aren't declaring that their culture is better than anyone elses, it's simply proving a vehicle for Basque players who want to play football and represent their culture. They aren't doing it because they don't like any other culture, they're doing it because they want to represent their own culture as a footballing entity. Zenit fans are doing it because they don't like blacks and gays, there is nothing positive about what they're trying to represent and to simply say "it's discrimination, therefore it's wrong" isn't a great way to look at things. When you chose to represent anything you're automatically discriminating against someone else, you have to look past the word and into the motivation and if anyone can honestly look at the Zenit supporters motivation and Bilbao's and say they're even remotely similar then I despair.

I simply can't admire an institution that won't, as a policy, allow anyone to be a part of it because of any reason other than talent. Next you'll have Universities where only students from a particular region can study. Now nobody would give two fecks about that University if they were a medium sized one and there were lots of others available, people would be saying that it is providing a platform for the local lads to get higher education. But if every Uni in the country had such a policy? Quality of education would fall. Same with Athletic. They are doing good for their community, but the policy they are following is not particularly conducive for growth of football in the larger picture.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

You'd have a point if Bilbao demanded a place in one of the biggest leagues in the world and a Champions League spot to represent their culture, except they don't. They simply do it and what happens, happens. If they don't do a very good job of raising Basque players or if the Basque people stop feeling the desire to represent their culture in that way they'll go down and out of the leagues.

That isn't my point at all. They can't do anything like what you suggest, because there is no Basque national state, everyone knows that. Their policy is one of excluding players who do not fit a certain bill - a bill that is decidedly "regional" whatever else it may be. The question is whether a professional football club, competing in a major European league, can stick to a policy like that...just like that? The OP raised the question. It's a valid one.

 

[Rozay]

I don't think they will, no. Which is discrimination. Of some sort. Then again, say you run an art gallery in your local area. You have decided to display - exclusively - works by local artists, that is artists living and working in the area. No matter how good an artist is, he or she won't be displayed in your gallery unless he (feck, or she) in some kind of definite way (and here the whole bloody thing opens to interpretation, doesn't it?) belongs to the area. Is that xenophobia - or is it just promoting local interests and so-called culture?

I don't know. I guess it depends on context, like everything else in this hell's creation. Would you say an institution that promotes native American cultural expressions (in theory at the expense of other cultural expressions, but only in theory, as nobody who wished to express, say, their Swedish heritage would plausibly try to submit contributions to this institution, it being, you know, native American to begin with)? Then again, what if a straight-ass business venture of some sort declared that they would only employ native American workers? That would be different, I guess. If there was no cultural element to it, I mean. Then, yet again, a straight-ass business venture might claim that their policy of employing only native Americans (and how do you define who is an according to Hoyle native American, by the way? I believe there are several definitions around, each of them more or less absurd) is actually, in effect, a way of promoting and preserving native American culture (whatever the hell that is at the end of the day). And who could say they were in the wrong? It's hard to prove intentions, whether they be good or bad.

I suppose it all depends - looked at cynically - on the size of yer operation. As long as whatever you're doing isn't on a scale grand enough to cause serious trouble - you're fine. The argument that Bilbao's policy would cause havoc were it to be introduced by all sorts of other teams - is pretty much void. Because most other teams wouldn't have a damn thing to gain from introducing such a policy. That, however, doesn't mean there's nothing debatable about the policy itself. I'd say it is. It's highly debatable, in fact. They are, after all, a team in one of the most prestigious leagues in world football.

This is a good post. Nobody, I don't think, has a general issue with the celebration of a certain identity. I mean, I did not question why Italians do not get picked for the Spanish squad or anything. There is competition for that, there are international tournaments for instance where this sort of thing is promoted. That said, Bilbao are a professional team, and they do not play in a regional competition as such. The role of their playing staff is to play football, and the tools they need to effectively do this has nothing to do with their area of origin.

 

[Rozay]

I must say that I have enjoyed many of the responses in this thread, and am not into name-calling, but there have been some either really childish or just incredibly stupid responses.

'United are cnuts because they don't sign women', is a fecking stupid comparison, for instance, given they play in a men's competition. Likewise, a silly point about us 'not signing Andorrans and therefore discriminating against people with less talent' is also thick and not remotely comparable to Bilbao's policy. I mean, we signed the only half decent footballer Trinidad and Tobago has ever produced, for example. If they are good enough, we will give them a chance. and we are even a club that values the input of local talent, and promote it where feasible.

 

[Dion]

I simply can't admire an institution that won't, as a policy, allow anyone to be a part of it because of any reason other than talent. Next you'll have Universities where only students from a particular region can study. Now nobody would give two fecks about that University if they were a medium sized one and there were lots of others available, people would be saying that it is providing a platform for the local lads to get higher education. But if every Uni in the country had such a policy? Quality of education would fall. Same with Athletic. They are doing good for their community, but the policy they are following is not particularly conducive for growth of football in the larger picture.

So you'd be ok with Suarez joining United? He'd certainly get in on talent. The world isn't that simple. What about the club that sticks with the team and manager that got them promoted rather than the better players they could sign? What about the manager who sticks with the second choice goalie in the final rather than the better first choice goalkeeper who hasn't played in the competition? That isn't based on ability.

And there are very few cultures in the world who feel the compulsion do this because mostly nationalism covers the desire to represent where you come from. If they all did we'd have these things called Nations and we'd have organisations that sent teams to competitions and you are only allowed to play for a team if you're from that country... talk about discrimination!

Sorry to be flippant but the argument doesn't hold water. There are plenty of university places that require you to be from a geographical location to apply, virtually all funded PhD scholarships in the UK require you to have UK or EU citizenship.

Being proud of your culture and wanting to share that with others of the same heritage isn't wrong, every national team in the world does it. Bilbao are a bit unusual and you're right if every region in the world felt like they did it wouldn't work, but in that situation International football isn't fit for purpose and it needs a redesign to allow people to represent their heritage. Little quirks aren't something that need to be put down unless the motivation behind them is morally wrong, Bilbao should be embraced because they are that little quirk that links national and international football.

 

[Rozay]

We signed Hargreaves over Senna because we preferred to sign an English player. What a terrible club

Struggle to tell whether you are joking with some of your posts. Do you think we would have signed Hargreaves over Vieira?

 

[Ekeke]

Struggle to tell whether you are joking with some of your posts. Do you think we would have signed Hargreaves over Vieira?

We did. So obviously, yes we would

 

[Rozay]

So you'd be ok with Suarez joining United? He'd certainly get in on talent. The world isn't that simple. What about the club that sticks with the team and manager that got them promoted rather than the better players they could sign? What about the manager who sticks with the second choice goalie in the final rather than the better first choice goalkeeper who hasn't played in the competition? That isn't based on ability.

And there are very few cultures in the world who feel the compulsion do this because mostly nationalism covers the desire to represent where you come from. If they all did we'd have these things called Nations and we'd have organisations that sent teams to competitions and you are only allowed to play for a team if you're from that country... talk about discrimination!

Sorry to be flippant but the argument doesn't hold water. There are plenty of university places that require you to be from a geographical location to apply, virtually all funded PhD scholarships in the UK require you to have UK or EU citizenship.

Being proud of your culture and wanting to share that with others of the same heritage isn't wrong, every national team in the world does it. Bilbao are a bit unusual and you're right if every region in the world felt like they did it wouldn't work, but in that situation International football isn't fit for purpose and it needs a redesign to allow people to represent their heritage. Little quirks aren't something that need to be put down unless the motivation behind them is morally wrong, Bilbao should be embraced because they are that little quirk that links national and international football.

Being proud of your culture is fine. Wanting to promote local talent is fine. Barcelona or Bayern Munich, for example, are obviously teams with great sense of identity, and try to sign the best local talent where possible. They are not like Arsenal, for instance. That said, they will give a good player a chance if he is better than what they have locally.

 

[Rozay]

We did. So obviously, yes we would

If given the chance to sign Vieira, obviously, which we seemingly didn't. Or are we currently also demonstrating a preference to play Danny Welbeck over Lionel Messi? fecking hell.

If Senna was clearly better than Hargreaves, why did we pay £17m for Hargreaves while Senna was worth less than half?

 

[Ekeke]

If given the chance to sign Vieira, obviously, which we seemingly didn't. Or are we currently also demonstrating a preference to play Danny Welbeck over Lionel Messi? fecking hell.

Vieira signed for Inter for 9.5 million euros. If we wanted to sign him instead of Hargreaves we could have done so and very likely for a much cheaper price. He didnt have a brilliant time at Inter performance wise and fitness wise. He had 20 league appearances the season before we signed Hargreaves and 16 the next season. Of course he'd have been an option if we wanted him. We chose Hargreaves instead

 

[Rozay]

Vieira signed for Inter for 9.5 million euros. If we wanted to sign him instead of Hargreaves we could have done so and very likely for a much cheaper price. He didnt have a brilliant time at Inter performance wise and fitness wise. He had 20 league appearances the season before we signed Hargreaves and 16 the next season. Of course he'd have been an option if we wanted him. We chose Hargreaves instead

The comparison of Vieira was not about the exact time we signed Hargreaves. The point is, at their best, we would choose Vieira over Hargreaves if given a choice, but not the same with Senna.

 

[Dion]

Being proud of your culture is fine. Wanting to promote local talent is fine. Barcelona or Bayern Munich, for example, are obviously teams with great sense of identity, and try to sign the best local talent where possible. They are not like Arsenal, for instance. That said, they will give a good player a chance if he is better than what they have locally.

Barcelona don't do that out of a sense of fairness, they do it because they value success on the pitch as paramount. Bilbao don't, it's a club based on a group of people doing something they enjoy and are proud of. That shunting of commercialism in football in favour of holding to your original values (that the club is a vehicle for showing Basque footballing culture) is something to be cheered in and of itself. Being successful and making money at the expense of all else is a judgement call and clubs vary on their position along that scale (Bilbao at one end, Man City/Monaco etc. at the other), clubs started out as an entirely regional thing anyway. All this talk about stealing a place away from a better player is nonsense because Bilbao don't want a collection of the best players they can possibly acquire, they don't want to be a business or a team driven entirely to succeed at all costs, they just want to represent their footballing culture in the best way they can.

That variation in ideals is good, the diversity it provides is good, if every team was simply just out to buy the very best players it could to generate the most money and win the most trophies at all costs football would be a duller place.

 

[Nighteyes]

Vieira signed for Inter for 9.5 million euros. If we wanted to sign him instead of Hargreaves we could have done so and very likely for a much cheaper price. He didnt have a brilliant time at Inter performance wise and fitness wise. He had 20 league appearances the season before we signed Hargreaves and 16 the next season. Of course he'd have been an option if we wanted him. We chose Hargreaves instead

There were lots of factors for not signing Vieira and none of them had to do with him being French. No need to be so fecking condescending

 

[rcoobc]

He'd had a long career for City by then.

 

[Zen86]

The last 2 managers we've had have been Scottish, this thread has me thinking that's discrimination against everyone who isn't Scottish now.