Athletic Bilbao's player recruitment policy

[Rozay]

Barcelona don't do that out of a sense of fairness, they do it because they value success on the pitch as paramount. Bilbao don't, it's a club based on a group of people doing something they enjoy and are proud of. That shunting of commercialism in football in favour of holding to your original values (that the club is a vehicle for showing Basque footballing culture) is something to be cheered in and of itself. Being successful and making money at the expense of all else is a judgement call and clubs vary on their position along that scale (Bilbao at one end, Man City/Monaco etc. at the other), clubs started out as an entirely regional thing anyway. All this talk about stealing a place away from a better player is nonsense because Bilbao don't want a collection of the best players they can possibly acquire, they don't want to be a business or a team driven entirely to succeed at all costs, they just want to represent their footballing culture in the best way they can.

That variation in ideals is good, the diversity it provides is good, if every team was simply just out to buy the very best players it could to generate the most money and win the most trophies at all costs football would be a duller place.

If it is so noble, everyone should be doing it. I'm not against the notion. As I said, I don't think Scotland should try and 'sign' Brazilians to play for their national team. That's what international football is for.

I don't think it will work on a wider scale anyway. On a personal level, I generally don't have that much of a problem with Bilbao's policy. When I first discovered it years ago, my first thought to myself was 'surely that's not right?', but then I moved on and forget about it, perhaps because I just didn't care that much.

As for Barcelona, I think they do recruit players out of a sense of fairness, and this is not mutually exclusive to success on the pitch. They clearly prioritise Catalans, but if a Catalan isn't capable of the job, they won't discriminate against a Brazilian and still play him. If they did, that may well be seen as unfair. However, where the Catalan is good enough, there is no competition really, they will prioritise him, like they did by selling Toure and giving his place to Busquets.

 

[Zen86]

If it is so noble, everyone should be doing it. I'm not against the notion. As I said, I don't think Scotland should try and 'sign' Brazilians to play for their national team. That's what international football is for.

I don't think it will work on a wider scale anyway. On a personal level, I generally don't have that much of a problem with Bilbao's policy. When I first discovered it years ago, my first thought to myself was 'surely that's not right?', but then I moved on and forget about it, perhaps because I just didn't care that much.

As for Barcelona, I think they do recruit players out of a sense of fairness, and this is not mutually exclusive to success on the pitch. They clearly prioritise Catalans, but if a Catalan isn't capable of the job, they won't discriminate against a Brazilian and still play him. If they did, that may well be seen as unfair. However, where the Catalan is good enough, there is no competition really, they will prioritise him, like they did by selling Toure and giving his place to Busquets.

Seeing as we're going to persist with going down this road, then that's discrimination in itself.

 

[utdalltheway]

so, it's a case of all things being equal, Barca will have a Catalan over anyone else. I don't have a problem with that. the thing that's hard to figure out is the equality part.

 

[Ekeke]

There were lots of factors for not signing Vieira and none of them had to do with him being French. No need to be so fecking condescending

Who said it had anything to do with his nationality? No need to be so inaccurate. It was a bad example given because we did actually choose to sign Hargreaves instead of Vieira. That was the answer to the genius question of whether we'd sign Hargreaves over Vieira.

 

[Nighteyes]

Who said it had anything to do with his nationality? No need to be so inaccurate. It was a bad example given because we did actually choose to sign Hargreaves instead of Vieira. That was the answer to the genius question of whether we'd sign Hargreaves over Vieira.

That suggests we had a choice which is not true

 

[Ekeke]

That suggests we had a choice which is not true

Of course its true. We could have chosen to go after Vieira or anyone else. He wasn't an important player

 

[Rood]

Ive not disappeared, and it discriminates against anyone not from the basque region. Personally I dont give a feck in all honesty, the only people its going to affect is the club and its supporters, I just dont like the way one particular form of discrimination is held up and lauded as wonderful, whilst others are frowned upon and legislated against. Either all prejudice is wrong, or none is. It really is that simple.

Anyway, neither side is going to change its mind so Im gone.

what you don't seem to understand is that the Bilbao policy does not harm any particular group of people - that is why it is not discrimination and there is no prejudice here. If there was then quite obviously there would be uproar from the footballing world and many people trying to get this policy changed.

Do you not wonder why there is a completely different reaction to the old Zenith policy? It is because it was clearly racially discriminatory against black players.

 

[ronnie dazzler]

They will when someone wealthy enough complains.

Not really relevant though is it. I'd love to apply to be a player of Man Utd and get turned down. Could just claim it's because I'm Irish or simply that I'm a shit footballer.

As Fergie himself used to say when we were recruiting for a position, there would be maybe 5 players that might interest him. We recruit for the position and find who interests us, rather than ask formpele to apply. if you can't get one, move onto the next one. Will be just as useful if of the right character.

By the other logic, you could argue then that English football prior to Premier league was uber racist and extreme, due to lack of foreign players. British stoicism and guts being best and all that!! However, that mentality won Liverpool, Notts Forest and Aston Villa a lot of European Cups. Their managers at the time felt this quality was more important than a player with more ability and less personality

 

[Dion]

If it is so noble, everyone should be doing it.

Playing football for it's own value rather than for glory and money? I wonder why they aren't...

 

[adexkola]

what you don't seem to understand is that the Bilbao policy does not harm any particular group of people - that is why it is not discrimination and there is no prejudice here. If there was then quite obviously there would be uproar from the footballing world and many people trying to get this policy changed.

Do you not wonder why there is a completely different reaction to the old Zenith policy? It is because it was clearly racially discriminatory against black players.

How is it not harming anyone? A kid in Spain who's good enough to play for Bilbao otherwise is overlooked for an inferior player who just happens to hail from the region.

"But if they're good enough, they can play elsewhere"

Doesn't the same apply to Zenit?

But I'm missing the point obviously, so I'll leave again.

 

[Rood]

How is it not harming anyone? A kid in Spain who's good enough to play for Bilbao otherwise is overlooked for an inferior player who just happens to hail from the region.

"But if they're good enough, they can play elsewhere"

Doesn't the same apply to Zenit?

But I'm missing the point obviously, so I'll leave again.

So where is the harm exactly? Who exactly do you think is ever going to have a problem with this policy?
In fact it is only the club themselves who lose out as they try to compete with ever increasing budgets at other clubs.

I believe that the club actually had a vote among their fanbase at some point to ask if they wanted to relax the policy to help them to compete and the result was an overwhelming 'No'. They would prefer to play in the 2nd division with local players rather than to win the league with 'foreigners'.

You are actually right in your comparison that the end result is actually the same as a player can simply play elsewhere in both cases, however the reasons that lead to it are very different and you seem to refuse to acknowledge this fact. One is clearly based on excluding certain players due to racial discrimination, whereas the other is not aimed to exclude anyone specific.

Athletic can be accused of regionalism/nationalism/patriotism - whether these things are positive or negative is up for debate. However there is not any form of negative discrimination or prejudice involved here.

 

[Theon]

Spot on Rood, great post

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Barcelona don't do that out of a sense of fairness, they do it because they value success on the pitch as paramount. Bilbao don't, it's a club based on a group of people doing something they enjoy and are proud of. That shunting of commercialism in football in favour of holding to your original values (that the club is a vehicle for showing Basque footballing culture) is something to be cheered in and of itself. Being successful and making money at the expense of all else is a judgement call and clubs vary on their position along that scale (Bilbao at one end, Man City/Monaco etc. at the other), clubs started out as an entirely regional thing anyway. All this talk about stealing a place away from a better player is nonsense because Bilbao don't want a collection of the best players they can possibly acquire, they don't want to be a business or a team driven entirely to succeed at all costs, they just want to represent their footballing culture in the best way they can.

That variation in ideals is good, the diversity it provides is good, if every team was simply just out to buy the very best players it could to generate the most money and win the most trophies at all costs football would be a duller place.

Several good points. If you regard the Bilbao policy as a simple case of promoting/upholding local culture, then it's obviously looking at it from the wrong angle to call it discrimination. There are - to use a random example - record labels that will only sign bands or artists from a specific area, in order to - well - promote that area. These areas are rarely rich or influential ones and the labels themselves are usually idealistic, even non-profit ones. Would it be discrimination if such a label said no to Lady Gaga or Bieber if they came asking for a contract? Well, I suppose it would - but who really cares, right?

However, as I suggested above, this is about the size of the operation more than anything. Bilbao are a fairly big team. They play in a major league and they also play more or less regularly in European competitions. That makes it more problematic. I'm not saying their policy is absolutely detestable. But it's not absolutely unproblematic either. They aren't a non-profit organization, so to speak.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Of course its true. We could have chosen to go after Vieira or anyone else. He wasn't an important player

You're not making a great deal of sense. By the same logic, or lack thereof, we didn't show a bias towards English players by signing Hargreaves but a bias towards injury-prone players of Canadian descent who play for German teams. Just as we showed a clear preference for Arsenal players when we signed RVP - and homeless players when we signed Bebe. You're just stating the most blatant fact: We bought the man. The question is obviously whether we did so out of principle or not.

 

[fishfingers15]

Barcelona have incredible talent coming out of La Masia now, so they are playing them. Else, they would be signing Saviola and Kluivert to play for them. It's kind of like us and our 92 class. We don't get to pick the cream of Spain's kids due to the proximity rule and it basically gives Barcelona the edge (and Real Madrid too). It's a bit of a misnomer to say Barcelona values it's Catalan roots when it picks players from La Masia. Say it the talent dries up, they'll act like the worst muppet club ever and throw money around. Their case is not comparable with Athletic Bilbao.

Bilbao is a club that does a lot of things by their history. Their name itself is not Atletico like Spanish clubs, but Athletic in English to signify the help they got from English clubs in their starting years. They have Sunderland like jerseys because Sunderland donated it to them in early 1900's (reportedly), and some of that 'traditional' stuff has become outdated now. What was acceptable then, has become questionable now. Everybody is moving with the times, while Athletic have not. Hence, they are going to split opinions. Some fans would commend them for being true to their traditional roots, some fans would stick their boots in, claiming they are xenophobic. Both are valid claims really, depending on how you think.

 

[Platato]

Ive not disappeared, and it discriminates against anyone not from the basque region. Personally I dont give a feck in all honesty, the only people its going to affect is the club and its supporters, I just dont like the way one particular form of discrimination is held up and lauded as wonderful, whilst others are frowned upon and legislated against. Either all prejudice is wrong, or none is. It really is that simple.

Anyway, neither side is going to change its mind so Im gone.

You're allowing your argument to be pulled in many different directions. One can use the word discrimination in terms of friends.

Consider this definition of discrimination: the quality or power of finely distinguishing

Isn't this what we do with how we choose our mates or the people we choose to be surrounded with? The issue comes within the context and the motivation for your discrimination. Inevitably, one form of discrimination will be lauded more than another. Your logic is very disturbing. "Either all prejudice is wrong, or none is". So you're telling me if my mate has a prejudice towards alcohol, it's wrong? When we analyse such delicate situations, we have to consider definition, context, intent and other factors. It is not just enough to say it is that simple. When someone is hurt from the prejudice, we can further ascertain the validity,soundness, ethics, and morality of the situation and the prejudice which led to the harmful action.

If someone uses prejudice with the definition of "preconceived judgment or opinion", is it inherently wrong? Your framework lends you to two possibilities. Life has shown oversimplifying what's around us rarely bodes well for understanding the intricacies in various situations.

 

[Platato]

Again fishfingers15, be careful how you use the word "xenophobia". It implies a fear or hatred of others. I doubt the basque people have a fear or hatred of non-basque players. They just would rather stick with their own. That's not the same as xenophobic towards a specific group as far as I can tell.

 

[fishfingers15]

Again fishfingers15, be careful how you use the word "xenophobia". It implies a fear or hatred of others. I doubt the basque people have a fear or hatred of non-basque players. They just would rather stick with their own. That's not the same as xenophobic towards a specific group as far as I can tell.

If you are asking me to be careful about the use of Xenophobic, surely you could be more careful about 'basque people'. I've never said anything that suggests Basque people are xenophobic. I was mentioning how Athletic Bilbao's policy can be construed as xenophobic by some people. I think Xenophobia could be described as irrational fear or hatred towards foreign people to the culture. Their refusal to sign other players who can undoubtedly improve their team and within their budget, often to the detriment to the overall football club could be construed as irrational at least.

Like I said, whether it's xenophobic or not, it's up to interpretation. For what it's worth, I don't have any issues with their policy, but I can also understand if some don't like it and slate them.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

You're allowing your argument to be pulled in many different directions. One can use the word discrimination in terms of friends.

Consider this definition of discrimination: the quality or power of finely distinguishing

Isn't this what we do with how we choose our mates or the people we choose to be surrounded with? The issue comes within the context and the motivation for your discrimination. Inevitably, one form of discrimination will be lauded more than another. Your logic is very disturbing. "Either all prejudice is wrong, or none is". So you're telling me if my mate has a prejudice towards alcohol, it's wrong? When we analyse such delicate situations, we have to consider definition, context, intent and other factors. It is not just enough to say it is that simple. When someone is hurt from the prejudice, we can further ascertain the validity,soundness, ethics, and morality of the situation and the prejudice which led to the harmful action.

If someone uses prejudice with the definition of "preconceived judgment or opinion", is it inherently wrong? Your framework lends you to two possibilities. Life has shown oversimplifying what's around us rarely bodes well for understanding the intricacies in various situations.

Some very good points.

I totally agree I oversimplify on this issue, mainly because I dont really believe what Im saying, I just thought the thread was turning into a bit of a Bilbao lovefest and fancied playing devils advocate for a bit

 

[Platato]

Precisely. When everything that has been released publicly about their policy has been under the guise of maintaining the Basque culture, I don't see how xenophobia comes into it. They don't have a national team so in some sense their club with all basque players is the epitome of their ideals.

Their refusals may be construed as irrational but from their perspective, they obviously side with the rationale supporting the club policy. Furthermore, their rationale is supported by the fact that their fans do not seem to have their eyes set on winning trophies. Maintaining the culture in the community and the club is a higher priority than bringing in silverware.

Again, some could construe Bilbao's policy as xenophobic but I question how deep they've delved into the situation or if they're choosing to make a knee-jerk reaction.

P.S fishfingers, this is my reply to your post. I got lazy.

 

[Platato]

Some very good points.

I totally agree I oversimplify on this issue, mainly because I dont really believe what Im saying, I just thought the thread was turning into a bit of a Bilbao lovefest and fancied playing devils advocate for a bit

Balance is fine. You could have exploited the increased likelihood of lack of success angle a bit more. It's better than trying to apply moral/ethical arguments to a football club. We can all agree clubs have had their fair share of dubiousness. Hence, why I laugh at Arsenal fans who say their club is one of the few clubs who act with dignity and class. Cringeworthy stuff really.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Balance is fine. You could have exploited the increased likelihood of lack of success angle a bit more. It's better than trying to apply moral/ethical arguments to a football club. We can all agree clubs have had their fair share of dubiousness. Hence, why I laugh at Arsenal fans who say their club is one of the few clubs who act with dignity and class. Cringeworthy stuff really.

That was where I was heading, but to be fair I have been distracted by watching Merlin on netflix and lost interest

 

[fishfingers15]

I think this comes more and more into focus with the way that the game has changed, and more broadly how the world has changed. We always boasted of a 'British spine' in the team, we laud our Mancunian players and praise them as 'local boy done good', however exclusivity is a bit far fetched. Nowdays, the game is global. Talent pool is not restricted to scouts seeing players. You post a youtube video and the club arranges a trial if you are worth it. 16 year old Brazilians are not afraid to move to England and have a go.

Additionally, irrespective of Athletic Bilbao's Basque policy or fielding local lads, I always found the Basque problem a bit melancholic. Maybe Basque's feel a bit threatened that their culture will decay and want to be separate from the 'Spanish', but the Basques are hardly white rhinos and Sumatra tigers that may go extinct and their culture would vanish. I will apologize to any Basque who reads this and gets offended, but I'm sure FCBarca, the only guy who maybe Basque is from Switzerland.

Platato, don't get lazy, you cnut. Drag your ass to Thiago thread, that's where it's all going down.

 

[Rado_N]

I appreciate that they have strong ties with the local community, but shouldn't it be such that they should try to sign Basque players, but not make it a policy only to do so. If there is a choice between two players of similar qualities, one of whom has Basque ties, and the other doesn't, than by all means go and sign the Basque player. But if a better player is available for cheap shouldn't they go for him? It's alright now because only they are doing it, if everyone starts to do that, well, that would hardly be ideal.

It is part of the club identity. For example, over the past 30 years, Manchester United has solidified the club identity as being a winner. The brand identity that Manchester United has anywhere is that of a winner, and that is because of consistent success. Athletic Club on the other hand have a very strong club identity, but that is based on their relationship towards their socios and to their fans. Why should they go for a player that doesn’t in any way exemplify what the club is trying to project? Bear in mind that Athletic Club now allows a more lenient tie to being an Euskal through parentage, birth, or through their formation of football abilities. Before it was never like this, and that is when you could have actually criticized Bilbao of being xenophobic, or racist. What should make Athletic Club want to go for a player that does not have the same values as the others that play for them? Nothing, really. Athletic Club have been incredibly successful in Spanish football. All this with their proud tradition.

I respect Barcelona's policy by the way, they try to give the Catalonian players a chance first, but if they are deemed not good enough, they try to recruit from elsewhere, which is how it should ideally be. Athletic's policy is just plain xenophobic, and I don't respect discrimination of such a kind in an organization which is getting funds not only from the region, but from international sponsors as well.

First off, do not compare Barcelona to Athletic Club. What Barcelona does at La Masia and what Athletic Club does at the Lezama is different. All you need to do is look at where the players come from with Barcelona, and the same with Athletic Club. Whereas Barcelona scout players from all over the world to join their cantera, Bilbao searches for players in Euskal Herria. Look at some of the players from Barcelona’s current squad that claim to come through their cantera:

Pedro Rodriguez – Canary Islands
Jonathan Dos Santos – Mexico
Thiago Alcantara – Italy
Lionel Messi – Argentina
Andrès Iniesta – Albacete

The rest have come from Cataluña, which merely shows the talent pool that is in Spain. Looking back into history, at the beginning of Athletic Club’s Euskal policy, the majority of players in La Liga were Basque. I believe it was over 50%, because of the sheer talent in that area. But now the talent has spread, and clubs have been procuring talent from over the world. Is it because Athletic Club stick to a policy that has had them revered in Spain for so long that makes them xenophobic, now? That they search for players of any race or heritage, provided that they have any tie to Euskal Herria? That makes them xenophobic? Fernando Amorebieta identified himself as Venezuelan, but since he was raised in Euskal Herria as well has having his parental links to there, he was given consent to don the prestigious kit. Jonas Ramalho, the first black Euskal to play for Athletic Club, played with the main squad in a match when he was 14. He was raised in Euskal Herria and had formed his footballing skills there, learning the style of football that is taught at the Lezama. If you’re trying to make yourself seem stupid, it’s sort of working, you know. But I’ll make it simple for you, emphasizing on the points that you need to understand - Athletic Club is OWNED by the SOCIOS, the ASSOCIATES of the CLUB that WANT the policy to exist. They ELECTED the new PRESIDENT of the CLUB, Josu Urrutia, who is a EUSKAL and who was RAISED through the Lezama. Athletic Club’s vice-president, José Ángel Corres, is also an Euskal who was raised in Euskal Herria. He holds degrees in Economics and Business, acquired from the Unversitad de Deusto, a famous university in Euskal Herria. He worked for several years for the Basque government, representing the autonomous community of Euskal Herria. In 2010 he was elected President of the Chamber of Commerce, Industry, and Navigation of Bilbao. As you can see, Athletic Club’s ownership is LOCAL. Athletic Club only started having their kit SPONSORED in 2009. Guess what kind of company sponsors their kit? Petronor, a BASQUE oil and gas company that is HEADQUARTERED in Euskal Herria. Their chairman, Josu Jon Imaz, is from where? You guessed it, EUSKAL HERRIA. There is a REASON for why they choose this policy and how they implement it. IT IS FOR THE ADVANCEMENT of BASQUE CULTURE, and BASQUE FOOTBALL.

Xenophobic policy. This debate came up when Zenit declared they didn't want black players. The fans said it was cultural as well but because that was racism people jumped on the hate Zenit band-wagon. These are the same. Not employing someone because of something they are incapable of changing. One is xenophobic the others racism. You can't support one and condemn the other.
You either accept that every club has a right to decide who they want to play for their club or no one has that right based on race/nationality etc.

This would have been true more than a decade ago, but now this is not true. Athletic Club now accepts those who are:

1] Born in Euskal Herria
2] Have parental ties to Euskal Herria
3] Raised and are ingrained in Basque culture
4] Taught their football in Euskal Herria

That’s the rough guidelines. Ander Herrera was born in Euskal Herria, but he was taught how to play football in Aragón, another autonomous country. He was there from the age of 5 until 22, from their cantera until their first team squad. So, he was not raised in Basque culture, and he was not taught football in Euskal Herria. But, he was born there and had parental ties, so it was applicable. During the mid-1990s, there was player from Equatorial Guinea, named Benjamin Zarrandona. He later recalled how Athletic Club wanted to sign him from Real Valladolid, but he was apparently denied because he was black. He claims to have been told by Luis Fernández that he was rejected due to the colour of his skin. He concludes by saying “We’re talking 10 years ago, it was not like it is now”. I will go back even further – in the 1950s, there was talk that Athletic Club would have bought Miguel Jones, born in Equatorial Guinea. Jones lived in Euskal Herria since he was 5, and was taught football in Euskal Herria. When Athletic Club rejected him to play for their club, there was media rife about how Athletic Club was racist, because Jones would have been the first Black to play for Athletic Club. Jones even admits that is a lie, because he said: “The idea that I didn't play for Athletic because I was black is media rubbish. They didn't sign me because I was not from Vizcaya. I was born in Equatorial Guinea and came to the Bilbao at the age of 4.” Do you want to know how that checks out as well? During that same period, Athletic Club were linked with both Chus Pereda and José Gárate. They never signed those two players, because they were not from Vizcaya. They had been raised, and were taught football in one of the most central neighbourhoods of Bilbao in Indautxu. Pereda captained Vizcaya’s U16 squad and identified himself as Basque. BUT – Pereda was born in the autonomous community of Castille and Leon, whereas Gárate was born in Argentina. They were white too, so there was no implication of racism there. It’s that the policy was extremely strict, and was incredibly xenophobic but now you cannot say that. Nowadays, someone like Gárate or Pereda or Jones or Zarrandona would easily be able to play for Athletic Club provided they have the talent. Before, they didn’t have that right. Nowadays, you can be any colour or even any nationality (it depends). You just need some form of link to the club now in order to play for them. That’s not xenophobic at all – that’s just upholding the tradition.

so, it's a case of all things being equal, Barca will have a Catalan over anyone else. I don't have a problem with that. the thing that's hard to figure out is the equality part.

They wouldn’t. Plain and simple. Barcelona would have a product of La Masia over anyone else, but Catalan or not, it really does not matter. I’m speaking in general here, because I really am not that interested into La Masia a lot unlike other football institutions, but a product of La Masia is seen as someone with greater value than someone that is not from there. And it is simply due to the fact that after the intervention of Cruijff, La Masia has played their own brand of football that has allowed Barcelona to allow their canteranos to progress into the main team almost seamlessly, provided they have the talent. Although currently with Eusebio at the reigns of Barça B, they are playing a different kind of football, but through their cantera you can see the reference points to how Barcelona’s main squad would play.

Because clubs are employers and business' and discrimination regarding to employment in any form is illegal under European law.

Athletic Club follows the laws of the government of the autonomous community of Euskal Herria. If the capital government of Spain were to intervene, there would be a massive issue. But it’s a different case – people apply for jobs at regular employers. I know for a fact that Athletic Club actually scouts players from all the provinces of Euskal Herria, because I have seen the Lezama and I have spoken to people from there.

..

 

[Rado_N]

Would it be prejudice if we suddenly came out and said we were going to start giving preference to players from Manchester?

Isn’t it Manchester United that goes ahead and scouts for players, and not the other way around? For example, wasn’t it Manchester United that gave a trial to Guillermo Varela, and not the other way around? Because it is the club that searches for players. Of course, nowadays when people squeak “RACISM”, “PREJUDICE”, “STEREOTYPE”, “DISCRIMINATION” at almost anything controversial, it would be seen like that. But you have to understand the context in which Athletic Club began the tradition. Early in the history of Spanish football, almost every player hailed from Euskal Herria. The talent was so good in that area that they could select only players from there and still be very competitive. Now, I do not know much about Manchester, but can you say that a city with an estimated population of 512,000 can produce elite players that can win titles and trophies, following the TRADITION of Manchester United? Because I do not see it sustainable for a long period of time. You would have to loosen the rules a bit, just like how Athletic Club have. Look at Real Sociedad – they started buying foreigners from 1989 with John Aldridge because they couldn’t sustain signing only Basques for their club. The next year, Real Sociedad signed Dalian Atkinson from Sheffield Wednesday, becoming their first black player. However; REAL SOCIEDAD DID NOT SIGN NON-BASQUE SPANIARDS UNTIL 2003, when they bought Boris Gonzalez from Real Oviedo. Can I see Athletic Club reaching that level? No, because they are owned by their socios, and that is the crux of their policy. Their owners prefer to have Basques. In the 1990s, sparked by their rivals (Real Sociedad) purchases of foreigners, El Mundo published a poll for the socios of Athletic Club. Over 75% of the socios would rather see Athletic Club relegated than to see them end the policy. That speaks volumes, especially considering the pride that emanates from being one of only three clubs to have never been relegated from the Spanish 1st division.

The hypocrisy in here is laughable. Wasn't everyone up in arms when the fans in Zenit made their statement about preferring white players?

It’s not hypocrisy, it’s just ignorance. Ignorance towards the culture of Euskal Herria and ignorance towards the history of the club. You’re part of it, considering how you actually put them together in the same basket. Have any Athletic Club supporter groups (not ultras) specifically say that they do not want Blacks or Homosexuals to play for their club? Besides, you are completely manipulating what the Zenit supporter group said to make yourself seem like you are knowledgeable here. This is a direct translation from Russian of a segment of their manifesto:

“The absence of black Zenit players is just an important tradition that underlines the team's identity and nothing more.”

ABSENCE OF BLACK ZENIT PLAYERS. DIRECTLY DISCRIMINATING AGAINST BLACK PLAYERS. That’s discrimination. Athletic Club have a black player in the squad, and a few more in their cantera from the Benjamín to the Juvenil level. Has there been anything written by an Athletic Club supporter group that directly said “the absence of x-characteristic is an important tradition that underlines the team’s identity”? Can you find anything? Of course not, because there isn’t. Remember the term – team identity. Team/Club identity can be used interchangeably, but that Zenit supporter group understands the importance of club tradition and what it means to the club. Even Manchester United supporters have given a greater form of admiration to the Busby Babes, because almost all of them were born in England, and raised through Manchester United’s academy. I use a list of the players that unfortunately passed away, or survived in the Munich Air Disaster:

Geoff Bent – Salford
David Pegg – Doncaster
Thomas Taylor – Barnsley
William Whelan - Republic of Ireland
Duncan Edwards – Worcestershire
Mark Jones – South Yorkshire
Eddie Colman – Salford
Roger Byrne – Manchester
Robert Charlton (survived) – Northumberland
Johnny Berry (survived) – Aldershot
John Blanchflower (survived) – Northern Ireland

So if Zenit restricted its player pool to people who have Cossack ancestors, eliminating the possibility of a black player playing for them, you think it would go down well with football? Would it feck.

Once again, completely different to the guidelines that Athletic Club has for potential players. They are NOT the same, so don’t compare the two.

You do realize that by default black players are excluded from Atletico's squad? How many Black Basques exist? Talk less of those who are good enough to play.

First off, it’s Athletic Club. Secondly, I’ll just show you two pictures of the youth that play in the Lezama.

Athletic Club NextGen Squad 2013

Athletic Club Benjamín Squad 2013 (class of 2001)

But of course, by default Blacks are excluded from Athletic Club’s squad. It’s not like Athletic Club has had a Black player on their bench in 2009 who was aged only 16, who then in 2011 made his first appearance at age 18 against Sevilla. His name is Jonas Ramalho, and he is one of their top defensive talents to come through the Lezama. Do you even know anything about Athletic Club? Because from these posts it sure looks like you don’t.

Do they allow non basque players, with absolutely no ties to the region to play for them?

I can give you a hypothetical scenario because I am not sure as to if this has ever happened for Athletic Club.

‘A child is born in Holland, in 1994. His parents are both Dutch. They have no ancestry in Euskal Herria, and they do not know the culture. They move to Bilbao when he is 4 years old, in 1998. He learns how to play football there, and he becomes a part of the culture. He now identifies himself as Basque, as he is now a citizen of Euksal Herria.’ I am quite sure that considering the relaxed policy of Athletic Club nowadays, he would be given consent to play for the club. But if you mean a player that is born in Holland, has Dutch parents, and lives in Holland until the age of 18 where he requests a transfer to Athletic Club, there is no chance of him joining the club.

Now nobody would give two fecks about that University if they were a medium sized one and there were lots of others available, people would be saying that it is providing a platform for the local lads to get higher education. But if every Uni in the country had such a policy? Quality of education would fall. Same with Athletic. They are doing good for their community, but the policy they are following is not particularly conducive for growth of football in the larger picture.

So let me get this straight: you’re using a hypothetical situation in which if every other football club follows what Athletic Club does, it will be an issue? Well no shit, but it obviously won’t happen. Are Athletic Club an admirable institution? Yes. Why? Because:

1] They have admirable history.
2] They have an admirable relationship with their socios and supporters.
3] They have an admirable financial situation.

You hear all the time about Spanish football clubs being in debt, and how Spanish football as a whole is in despair. Athletic Club has no tax debt whatsoever, and that is due to their stringent policies not just to players, but to ownership and management. They play an admirable style of football, they have an admirable history, and they have an admirable relationship with their fans. And look at what that is the by-product of? It’s because of them admiring and wanting to progress Basques as a whole and they want to be the real representatives of Basque culture because after 1989, Real Sociedad could not claim that as well.

It's the same with Bilbao, they're simply there to represent their culture. They aren't declaring that their culture is better than anyone elses, it's simply proving a vehicle for Basque players who want to play football and represent their culture. They aren't doing it because they don't like any other culture, they're doing it because they want to represent their own culture as a footballing entity.

This post is fantastic, and this is what I am trying to say in short. It is basically the re-iteration of their mission as a football club, and that is why I respect Athletic Club. I'm not a Euskal, nor do I support Athletic Club. It's just that this topic interested me a long time ago, and so since I wanted to learn more about it, I researched it and came to my own conclusions. It's the same thing that many of you should be doing. Because there are posts in here that are just pure conjecture, and that is why they simply cannot be agreed with. And by the way, this is not a formal policy. It's unwritten, sort of like how Rangers had an unwritten policy to not buy Catholic players. But it's part of the Basque culture, and that is what is the catch here. Many of you are ignorant to the culture of these people and you won't understand why they make these decisions, and how they are allowed. If you've ever researched Spanish history, or have ever gone to Euskal Herria for example, you'd be able to see it with your own eyes.

some more from the newbie, this fecker likes long posts.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Bloke knows his stuff, fair play. Someone promote him.

 

[fishfingers15]

Well, it's a long post. Interestingly, do you agree with Rangers policy of not signing Catholic players?

 

[rcoobc]

It's a good post. You shouldn't take one clubs culture to extremes, applying it to EVERY club or EVERY university or EVERY shopping center. That's ridiculious.

The most worrying part is the bit about Rangers though.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Well, it's a long post. Interestingly, do you agree with Rangers policy of not signing Catholic players?

Meh, Personally I find the possibility of a club denying themselves a potentially quality player on the basis of which imaginary friend they choose to talk to hilarious.

 

[adexkola]

It's unwritten, sort of like how Rangers had an unwritten policy to not buy Catholic players.

How noble.

 

[fishfingers15]

Meh, Personally I find the possibility of a club denying themselves a potentially quality player on the basis of which imaginary friend they choose to talk to hilarious.

Exactly. The basic premise is to sign a player that'll improve the team. Rangers don't sign Catholic players, Bilbao doesn't sign players who are not Basque or from the area. They are going to sound as the bastion of tradition for someone and a source of ridicule to someone else. Even after going through all the Spanish and Basque history, it could still sound ridiculous to many.

 

[Sarni]

It's unwritten, sort of like how Rangers had an unwritten policy to not buy Catholic players.

How noble.

So out of a long post with almost entirely valid points you've decided to take one extract and have a go at it?

 

[Platato]

He's prejudiced against Basques

 

[Bestie07]

Several good points in that very long post, and most of them I think everybody had a general idea about. I am fairly sure they do not see themselves as superior, and of course, the intentions behind this policy is good. But still doesn't make it correct. Why don't they promote a local business by putting their name on the shirt instead of an oil company if they are not interested in profits and want to promote their culture?

 

[Platato]

Several good points in that very long post, and most of them I think everybody had a general idea about. I am fairly sure they do not see themselves as superior, and of course, the intentions behind this policy is good. But still doesn't make it correct. Why don't they promote a local business by putting their name on the shirt instead of an oil company if they are not interested in profits and want to promote their culture?

..................

 

[adexkola]

So out of a long post with almost entirely valid points you've decided to take one extract and have a go at it?

It's a very detailed and informative post, and I stand corrected on blacks not being able to play for Bilbao by default. Kudos to da gawd.

However he's rehashing points made earlier in this thread, and that Rangers comparison takes the cake.

 

[Rood]

Several good points in that very long post, and most of them I think everybody had a general idea about. I am fairly sure they do not see themselves as superior, and of course, the intentions behind this policy is good. But still doesn't make it correct. Why don't they promote a local business by putting their name on the shirt instead of an oil company if they are not interested in profits and want to promote their culture?

Petronor is originally a Basque company - in fact like Barca, it is only recently that Athletic have had any shirt sponsor at all.

 

[Rood]

It's unwritten, sort of like how Rangers had an unwritten policy to not buy Catholic players.

How noble.

I dont think anyone is saying that the Rangers policy was a good thing - of course that policy ended a long time ago anyway.

 

[Rozay]

Playing football for it's own value rather than for glory and money? I wonder why they aren't...

Because it is a profession for those involved.

 

[Dion]

Because it is a profession for those involved.

It was a profession long before the money got crazy.