Athletic Bilbao's player recruitment policy

I'm not sure I have that much of an opinion on it either way, but I must say I have always been surprised that there hasn't been more discussion or controversy around it in the game. Unless of course there has been, and I have totally missed it all.

Football today is particularly sensitive with regards to equality issues, and a club openly declaring that you cannot play for them unless you are from a certain geographical region seems to have gone down surprisingly well.

I know it's not quite the same thing, but when Zenit's fans stated they did not want black players at the club, there was an issue made of it (rightly so, of course).

I don't know if the term is too simplistic, but Bilbao's recruitment policy seems, well... racist.

Interesting take actually.. Never thought about it this way, never thought about their policy as something which is a bad thing. I do think that by the definition of racism you are correct in your take, excluding people based on racial/demographical features is racist.

The thing is however that the line is very thin right, when we consider it something which is a bad thing.

I think everyone agrees that Zenit not wanting black players is a racist thing (I read this as a comment somewhere else in this thread). Is it however fundamentally different than Bilbao only wanting their own Basque players? Im not sure actually?

In NL there is quite some racism against Maroccan/Turkish people by the right-winged part of the country. There is however consensus in that its racism when someone named Mohamed Sukur has less chances on the workforce and has uneuqal chances getting a job, as opposed to someone who's name is Jan de Jong. We all consider it racism when Mohamed is more qualified, but Jan gets the job, because a company owner only wants to work with blond blue eyed dutch guys. Is this example fundamentally different from Athletic Bilbao only wanting to work with homegrown Basque players?

In any office its age discrimination if - in case of two equally qualified people - the younger colleague gets more chances/attention than the older colleague. But in football we all agree it makes sense we start 19 year old structurally who is of the same level (or even marginally worse) than a 33 year old colleague. There are ofcourse non-racial reasons for this (player value, development), but still.. It's as much age discrimination as it would be in the normal workforce..
 
I think everyone agrees that Zenit not wanting black players is a racist thing (I read this as a comment somewhere else in this thread). Is it however fundamentally different than Bilbao only wanting their own Basque players? Im not sure actually?

The law in Spain protects from discrimination due to age, race, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, religion, ethnicity, nationality, ideology, political affiliation, handicap, or socioeconomic status. The Basque signing policy has nothing to do with age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion, ideology, political affiliation, handicap, or socioeconomic status, so those are out.

That leaves race, ethnicity, and nationality. Athletic Bilbao's policy is that they sign players who were born in the Basque country or players who developed in Basque academies. That is very broad, and thus prevents it from being discrimination for race (people of various 'races' have played for Athletic Bilbao), ethnicity (merely being born in the Basque country or being formed in a Basque academy does not make one 'ethnically Basque'), or nationality.
 
Interesting take actually.. Never thought about it this way, never thought about their policy as something which is a bad thing. I do think that by the definition of racism you are correct in your take, excluding people based on racial/demographical features is racist.

The thing is however that the line is very thin right, when we consider it something which is a bad thing.

I think everyone agrees that Zenit not wanting black players is a racist thing (I read this as a comment somewhere else in this thread). Is it however fundamentally different than Bilbao only wanting their own Basque players? Im not sure actually?

Bilbao's recruitment policy has got nothing to do with race, and is not racist.
They sign basque-born players, players with basque heritage, or players who played at a basque club from a young age.
That includes anyone who moves to basque country and fields a player from young age with any basque club.

Sure it wasn't a great look before Jonas Ramalho became the first black player, but it's got nothing to do with the club not allowing for players of other races, because they do field players of any color as long as they have one of the aformentioned connections to basque country. i.e. currently the Williams brothers are born to Ghanaian parents who moved to Bilbao. They are both loved by the club, and loves the club back. Iñaki even signed a nine-year deal.

Nationalistic? Sure.
Racist? Nope.
 
Reminds me of a cafe near me that has a sign on the front saying "No English", it's been there for years and it doesn't appear that anyone has made much fuss about it. There are plenty of other cafes to choose from.
 
As much as I love seeing kids come through the ranks, I'd hate it if Chelsea excluded non-English people or whatever the regional equivalent would be.

No Zola, no Drogba, no Kante? Imagine Man United with no Best, no Cantona, no Alex Ferguson? feck that.

Also, can you legally exclude people based on their heritage? Feels icky to me.

Interestingly Bilbao do allow non-Basque managers - after all the club was set up by English footba fans and the first couple of managers were English

Bielsa, Heynkes and Howard Kendall have all been there in recent times

And there is no legal issue, who exactly is being excluded?
 
Bilbao's recruitment policy has got nothing to do with race, and is not racist.
They sign basque-born players, players with basque heritage, or players who played at a basque club from a young age.
That includes anyone who moves to basque country and fields a player from young age with any basque club.

Sure it wasn't a great look before Jonas Ramalho became the first black player, but it's got nothing to do with the club not allowing for players of other races, because they do field players of any color as long as they have one of the aformentioned connections to basque country. i.e. currently the Williams brothers are born to Ghanaian parents who moved to Bilbao. They are both loved by the club, and loves the club back. Iñaki even signed a nine-year deal.

Nationalistic? Sure.
Racist? Nope.

Yeah i get your point.. its easy to mix up racism and discrimination.. What they are doing is definetely some accepted form of discrimination based on demographics (explained from a nationalistic standpoint indeed), but its not racism..
 
Could you play for them? Could Ronaldo? Could Messi? Or are you all excluded because you lack the "right" heritage, place of birth or where you grew up?
No, but I couldn’t play for Manchester United W.F.C. either or join the Women’s Institute. Feel free to get up in arms about that too.
 
I never understood why Lizarazu was never fully accepted by the fans. If they identify themselves primarily as Basque then why does it matter which side of the border of Basque country he is from?
Yet they accepted Laporte whose Basqueness was more tenuous. Think it was through his grandparents.
 
Could you play for them? Could Ronaldo? Could Messi? Or are you all excluded because you lack the "right" heritage, place of birth or where you grew up?

I dont want to play for them - do Ronaldo or Messi? No - so no one is being excluded

The point is, who exactly is going to have an issue with the policy?
There are hundreds of clubs for a pro footballer to play for
 
I dont want to play for them - do Ronaldo or Messi? No - so no one is being excluded

The point is, who exactly is going to have an issue with the policy?
There are hundreds of clubs for a pro footballer to play for

That’s true. What’s the big deal when players can just choose a different club to Zenit?
 
I dont want to play for them - do Ronaldo or Messi? No - so no one is being excluded

The point is, who exactly is going to have an issue with the policy?
There are hundreds of clubs for a pro footballer to play for

My sister probably doesn't want to play on a mens only golf course. Does that make it OK that she's not allowed on one?

There's 1000s of other golf courses she can play at after all.

Bilbao's policy isn't the most harmful thing in the world, of course it's not. It just feels so out of place to have a top tier club with such a policy.
 
I don't think all types of exclusion are bad when you consider what the purpose is.

It doesn't seem Bilbao's criteria for who is Basque is that strict. They're hardly looking for pure-blooded Basque people and their philosophy is based on improving opportunities for people in the region.
 
I don't think all types of exclusion are bad when you consider what the purpose is.

It doesn't seem Bilbao's criteria for who is Basque is that strict. They're hardly looking for pure-blooded Basque people and their philosophy is based on improving opportunities for people in the region.
How they were treated by Franco and Spain you cannot be surprised that they want to protect their heritage now that they can.
 
Very interesting topic.

Question for people who are better read on the issue than I am - if say a 13-14yo Asian teenager moved to one of the basque academies and stayed there for 5-6 years then will he be eligible to play for Bilbao?

If yes, then isn't this a stricter (or rather the strictest) implementation of the 33% home-grown quota policy that PL clubs have? Or am I over-simplifying it?
 
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That’s true. What’s the big deal when players can just choose a different club to Zenit?
My sister probably doesn't want to play on a mens only golf course. Does that make it OK that she's not allowed on one?

There's 1000s of other golf courses she can play at after all.

Bilbao's policy isn't the most harmful thing in the world, of course it's not. It just feels so out of place to have a top tier club with such a policy.

Completely different when someone is excluded due to sex or race - all races, sexes, religions welcome at Athletic Bilbao so where is the problem?
 
Completely different when someone is excluded due to sex or race - all races, sexes, religions welcome at Athletic Bilbao so where is the problem?

I'll repeat myself because I guess you missed where I pretty clearly said what my issue is with this:

The only discriminatory policy that should exist in club football when it comes to getting picked or not is "you're too shit to play for us".

If your son was excluded from a club because of his heritage or where he was born or raised, I think that is bullshit.
 
Completely different when someone is excluded due to sex or race - all races, sexes, religions welcome at Athletic Bilbao so where is the problem?

Yes, it is completely different when someone is excluded due to race or sex. This is literally a different exclusion, exclusion by way of not being Basque. So what, not sure the point? I’m aware of the difference between race, sex and regional connection. I’m questioning when the regional connection thing became a perfectly reasonable ground for exclusion in club football.

Is it at that point of regional connection that it becomes a case of ‘just play for another club then’? But any other ground is abhorred. Whatever is said, however noble the intention - this is club football, not international football. Trying to apply national football principles to club football is against the spirit of club football on the whole. They should form a Basque nation and register with UEFA and compete against other teams that apply exclusions based on connection and heritage.

Although it may sound differently, I don’t particularly care either way, for the record. But it is exactly what it is, though, is all I’m saying.
 
Yes, it is completely different when someone is excluded due to race or sex. This is literally a different exclusion, exclusion by way of not being Basque. So what, not sure the point? I’m aware of the difference between race, sex and regional connection. I’m questioning when the regional connection thing became a perfectly reasonable ground for exclusion in club football.

Is it at that point of regional connection that it becomes a case of ‘just play for another club then’? But any other ground is abhorred. Whatever is said, however noble the intention - this is club football, not international football. Trying to apply national football principles to club football is against the spirit of club football on the whole. They should form a Basque nation and register with UEFA and compete against other teams that apply exclusions based on connection and heritage.

Although it may sound differently, I don’t particularly care either way, for the record. But it is exactly what it is, though, is all I’m saying.
By the way, if they could form a separate nation they would. They are in the same boat as the Catalans.
 
If this were here he would have been convinced by the fans and media that he is fatigued and needs a rest long before then.
Inaki sounds like a bit of a physical freak here, but I’m sure the fact that he’s not played any Europe midweek football for the past three seasons, or national team football (one call up his entire career in 2016) is helping that.
 
I'll repeat myself because I guess you missed where I pretty clearly said what my issue is with this:

The only discriminatory policy that should exist in club football when it comes to getting picked or not is "you're too shit to play for us".

If your son was excluded from a club because of his heritage or where he was born or raised, I think that is bullshit.

But it doesnt work like that - you do not choose a club, they choose YOU so no one is ever excluded - thats why comparisons of golf courses etc are irrelevant

And Bilbao will accept any talented kid who lives in the area in their academy regardless of where they are born
 
But it doesnt work like that - you do not choose a club, they choose YOU so no one is ever excluded - thats why comparisons of golf courses etc are irrelevant

And Bilbao will accept any talented kid who lives in the area in their academy regardless of where they are born

A lot of top golf clubs are and were invitation only, if they don't choose you, you can't play.

Same as Bilbao, just a different criteria.
 
Yes, it is completely different when someone is excluded due to race or sex. This is literally a different exclusion, exclusion by way of not being Basque. So what, not sure the point? I’m aware of the difference between race, sex and regional connection. I’m questioning when the regional connection thing became a perfectly reasonable ground for exclusion in club football.

Is it at that point of regional connection that it becomes a case of ‘just play for another club then’? But any other ground is abhorred. Whatever is said, however noble the intention - this is club football, not international football. Trying to apply national football principles to club football is against the spirit of club football on the whole. They should form a Basque nation and register with UEFA and compete against other teams that apply exclusions based on connection and heritage.

Although it may sound differently, I don’t particularly care either way, for the record. But it is exactly what it is, though, is all I’m saying.

There is already an unofficial Basque national team (same as Catalonia) - Im sure people from the area would love it to be official but politically it will never happen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_Country_national_football_team

For me the Bilbao policy is something to be applauded, just like how I love the fact that our club has had an academy player in every line up for decades
 
I personally think football would be very interesting if all clubs followed Bilbao's policy. It would remove alot of this mercenary nonsesne forcing inflated prices and wages. It would all come down to how well each area a team is in to fund grass root football and overhall under age football with proper trained coaches.

It could give smaller leagues like the League of Ireland a chance to compete rather than losing players over sea's albeit the FAI spending less on their own boardroom mercenaries and more into the grassroots.

Can you imagine having tough determined Scottish sides like the historic Celtic squad in the 60's.

Scouting would be more or less the back bone to the club rather than a transfer committee.

Anyone feel i am wrong or?
 
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I personally think football would be very interesting if all clubs followed Bilbao's policy. It would remove alot of this mercenary nonsesne forcing inflated prices and wages. It would all come down to how well each area a team is in to fund grass root football and overhall under age football with proper trained coaches.

It could give smaller leagues like the League of Ireland a chance to compete rather than losing players over sea's albeit the FAI spending less on their own boardroom mercenaries and more into the grassroots.

Can you imagine having tough determined Scottish sides like the historic Celtic squad in the 60's.

Scouting would be more or less the back bone to the club rather than a transfer committee.

Anyone feel i am wrong or?
Football will also lose plenty of tv revenue if that happens.
 
I personally think football would be very interesting if all clubs followed Bilbao's policy. It would remove alot of this mercenary nonsesne forcing inflated prices and wages. It would all come down to how well each area a team is in to fund grass root football and overhall under age football with proper trained coaches.

It could give smaller leagues like the League of Ireland a chance to compete rather than losing players over sea's albeit the FAI spending less on their own boardroom mercenaries and more into the grassroots.

Can you imagine having tough determined Scottish sides like the historic Celtic squad in the 60's.

Scouting would be more or less the back bone to the club rather than a transfer committee.

Anyone feel i am wrong or?

Let’s go a step further and do that for all industries. To be fair, Eastenders were way ahead of time there. Everyone works, lives and dates within Albert Square.
 
I personally think football would be very interesting if all clubs followed Bilbao's policy. It would remove alot of this mercenary nonsesne forcing inflated prices and wages. It would all come down to how well each area a team is in to fund grass root football and overhall under age football with proper trained coaches.

It could give smaller leagues like the League of Ireland a chance to compete rather than losing players over sea's albeit the FAI spending less on their own boardroom mercenaries and more into the grassroots.

Can you imagine having tough determined Scottish sides like the historic Celtic squad in the 60's.

Scouting would be more or less the back bone to the club rather than a transfer committee.

Anyone feel i am wrong or?

Isn’t that what international football is for?
 
This rule was and still is a political message, in a context of cultural oppression and attempt to eradicate regional identities. The North of Spain and South of France are the regions where it was the strongest, they don't abhor other cultures or reject them but try to protect something that both countries tried to make disappear.
 
This rule was and still is a political message, in a context of cultural oppression and attempt to eradicate regional identities. The North of Spain and South of France are the regions where it was the strongest, they don't abhor other cultures or reject them but try to protect something that both countries tried to make disappear.
Exactly. They were not allowed their own poetry, songs, literature and most of all their own language.
 
Isn’t that what international football is for?

How is it when you got players playing for Ireland underage and then swapping to England when they reach 18+, this would stop this nonsense of Jack Grealish being grilled for playing underage for Ireland and fecking off the moment England come sniffing. You play in your area that you came through the youth ranks, not play for Shamrock Rovers till 19 or 20 then go off over to Chelsea because your granddad was born in London....

This thing about revenue being a problem? How will it be? What would you really need revenue for if you haven't got to pay 300k+ wages on one player so he doesn't get his attention drawn to Real Madrid or having to pay for 50mill for Relegation fodder players? I wonder how the lads back in the 70s-80s managed to survive on the equivalent of todays money being around 3k a week? The current players will be homeless on that the poor sods. Money ruined this sport along time ago! You can only go and see what City and PSG have done, even Barcelona stopped using La Masia effectively to pay inflated prices for players they didn't actually need.

Now tell me how a loss of revenue is a bad thing compared to actually watching teams who play for the badge and the fans rather than the bank account!
 
I don't think all types of exclusion are bad when you consider what the purpose is.
Without patriotism and nationalism, many small regional identities, cultures and languages would be suffocated by their more powerful neighbours and slowly cease to exist over time.

There’s a difference between positive policies that promote, protect and champion local culture and identity of a minority (i.e. Athletic Bilbao) and ideas that are purely designed to discriminate against specific minorities in a wider context (i.e. Zenit’s Landskrona).

Many European nation states (Spain, USSR, etc) have looked to eliminate other smaller national/regional identities over the last several hundred years. I fully support those who wish to ensure their survival by protecting and promoting them
 
this is club football, not international football. Trying to apply national football principles to club football is against the spirit of club football on the whole.
These rules already exist to varying degrees in club football. Club football is based on employment in a country, and employment in a country is determined by nationality. Countries within the European Union are an exception, but that's still fairly recent.

I’m questioning when the regional connection thing became a perfectly reasonable ground for exclusion in club football.

At the core of this question is another question: what is the purpose of a football club?

If a football club is simply a place that employs footballers so that they can win titles and provide entertainment, there shouldn't be any grounds for exclusion. But if we follow this line of logic, then it would be perfectly fine for Manchester United to move to a different city tomorrow.

If a football club is an institution that belongs to a community, then there shouldn't be anything wrong with that community focusing on its own development.

Question for people who are better read on the issue than I am - if say a 13-14yo Asian teenager moved to one of the basque academies and stayed there for 5-6 years then will he be eligible to play for Bilbao?

It would depend on the circumstances in which the kid moved to a basque academy in the first place.
 
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How is it when you got players playing for Ireland underage and then swapping to England when they reach 18+, this would stop this nonsense of Jack Grealish being grilled for playing underage for Ireland and fecking off the moment England come sniffing. You play in your area that you came through the youth ranks, not play for Shamrock Rovers till 19 or 20 then go off over to Chelsea because your granddad was born in London....

This thing about revenue being a problem? How will it be? What would you really need revenue for if you haven't got to pay 300k+ wages on one player so he doesn't get his attention drawn to Real Madrid or having to pay for 50mill for Relegation fodder players? I wonder how the lads back in the 70s-80s managed to survive on the equivalent of todays money being around 3k a week? The current players will be homeless on that the poor sods. Money ruined this sport along time ago! You can only go and see what City and PSG have done, even Barcelona stopped using La Masia effectively to pay inflated prices for players they didn't actually need.

Now tell me how a loss of revenue is a bad thing compared to actually watching teams who play for the badge and the fans rather than the bank account!


Wasn’t Jack Grealish born in England though. Seems an odd example. It works both ways as well. There are plenty of players who are English with Irish heritage who have played for Ireland after not getting a sniff of an England call up.
 
Very interesting topic.

Question for people who are better read on the issue than I am - if say a 13-14yo Asian teenager moved to one of the basque academies and stayed there for 5-6 years then will he be eligible to play for Bilbao?

If yes, then isn't this a stricter (or rather the strictest) implementation of the 33% home-grown quota policy that PL clubs have? Or am I over-simplifying it?

Yes they would - although there have been instances of the club inviting young players that the fans were not as happy about as they questioned their Basque connection

The PL has had several rules over the years like the homegrown rule too - in fact Man Utd used to get shafted by the foreigner rule until that was done away with

Also the '90 minute rule' dictating how far academy players could be recruited
 
Wasn’t Jack Grealish born in England though. Seems an odd example. It works both ways as well. There are plenty of players who are English with Irish heritage who have played for Ireland after not getting a sniff of an England call up.
Its like your side stepping the point I am making...
Wasn’t Jack Grealish born in England though. Seems an odd example. It works both ways as well. There are plenty of players who are English with Irish heritage who have played for Ireland after not getting a sniff of an England call up.
It doesn't matter though does it? He felt he was Irish enough to play under-age but wasn't Irish enough to stick at it when England were mentioning his name. But again, its like your side stepping my point. Did Jack Grealish grow up in Dublin? No, this is where I would see how what I am saying would come into play. Just like GAA in Ireland, you are literally tied to the county you lived in. You can't leave Waterford and go up to Dublin and try your luck at winning an All-Ireland medal, its not allowed. Jack Grealish would be able to choose from 3 major clubs in Birmingham were he was born and bred to play for. So no, this would fix this nonsense of money taking the place of pride in football.

Damien Duff, Shay Given, Roy Keane, Robbie Keane and Dennis Irwin would never have appeared in a club in England under my vision. Them alone would have increased the start of LOI football a lot more than any pathetic attempt as of now.
 
How is it when you got players playing for Ireland underage and then swapping to England when they reach 18+, this would stop this nonsense of Jack Grealish being grilled for playing underage for Ireland and fecking off the moment England come sniffing. You play in your area that you came through the youth ranks, not play for Shamrock Rovers till 19 or 20 then go off over to Chelsea because your granddad was born in London....

This thing about revenue being a problem? How will it be? What would you really need revenue for if you haven't got to pay 300k+ wages on one player so he doesn't get his attention drawn to Real Madrid or having to pay for 50mill for Relegation fodder players? I wonder how the lads back in the 70s-80s managed to survive on the equivalent of todays money being around 3k a week? The current players will be homeless on that the poor sods. Money ruined this sport along time ago! You can only go and see what City and PSG have done, even Barcelona stopped using La Masia effectively to pay inflated prices for players they didn't actually need.

Now tell me how a loss of revenue is a bad thing compared to actually watching teams who play for the badge and the fans rather than the bank account!
Sorry but is the bone of your argument ‘only local players for local clubs’?
 
Its like your side stepping the point I am making...

It doesn't matter though does it? He felt he was Irish enough to play under-age but wasn't Irish enough to stick at it when England were mentioning his name. But again, its like your side stepping my point. Did Jack Grealish grow up in Dublin? No, this is where I would see how what I am saying would come into play. Just like GAA in Ireland, you are literally tied to the county you lived in. You can't leave Waterford and go up to Dublin and try your luck at winning an All-Ireland medal, its not allowed. Jack Grealish would be able to choose from 3 major clubs in Birmingham were he was born and bred to play for. So no, this would fix this nonsense of money taking the place of pride in football.

Damien Duff, Shay Given, Roy Keane, Robbie Keane and Dennis Irwin would never have appeared in a club in England under my vision. Them alone would have increased the start of LOI football a lot more than any pathetic attempt as of now.
The Irish players you mention would never have developed into the players they became had they stayed in LOI. Ireland is too small to expect that every club would have decent players.
Secondly some of Ireland’s greatest moments in football wouldn’t have been seen - big Jack wouldn’t have coached, Ray Houghton wouldn’t have scored against England and Italy, you would never have seen the likes of Townsend, McGrath, cascarino and Aldridge pull on the green jersey
 
I personally think football would be very interesting if all clubs followed Bilbao's policy. It would remove alot of this mercenary nonsesne forcing inflated prices and wages. It would all come down to how well each area a team is in to fund grass root football and overhall under age football with proper trained coaches.

It could give smaller leagues like the League of Ireland a chance to compete rather than losing players over sea's albeit the FAI spending less on their own boardroom mercenaries and more into the grassroots.

Can you imagine having tough determined Scottish sides like the historic Celtic squad in the 60's.

Scouting would be more or less the back bone to the club rather than a transfer committee.

Anyone feel i am wrong or?

In the real, current world I think this would be illegal, since it restricts the free movement of workers across borders in the EU, so Britain would be excempt from this since they don't want people coming over. If a club wants to hire someone international they have a right to.

In the fantasy though: yeah that's a interesting idea, certainly.

The inherent risk is that it could make some leagues less appealing since there's not that many talents in the country. I'm not sure that the scouting and talent development on a national level isn't already working hard at developing players as it is.

Generally, this idea would mean the collapse of football economy as we know it, since TV deals will be worth significantly less and less money would exist in the game overall. Ultimately the only thing interestin for foreigners will likely not be the local leagues, but the one competition that allows everyone to compete against each other: the European contests