[Orton]

Did he not play most of the season as a right or left wing back and occasional full back before the Spurs result?

He's only just recently had a run on the left as a winger again.

Still, hardly any productivity. He has improved but that's because he was so bad before.

 

[ottosec]

All this thread lacks is a "If he was foreign and had an exotic name everybody would have said he's world-class" post...


Yeah, he's got a good season by his standards, the only problem is that his standards are not so high.

He did well and contributed this year more than any of us would expect, but the truth is that we need better there and he shouldn't start every game.

 

[Snow]

Did he not play most of the season as a right or left wing back and occasional full back before the Spurs result?

He's only just recently had a run on the left as a winger again.

More than half of his game has come as a starting winger. Only three as a full back. His wing back role was basically the same offensively as his winger role.

Before the City game Valencia had been more productive and effective from the right back spot but since then Young has been a lot better than Valencia.

 

[Man-United]

His wing back role was basically the same offensively as his winger role.

Not a chance.

 

[Ole'sbodyguard]

Still, hardly any productivity. He has improved but that's because he was so bad before.

Wing back and occasional full back is a very different job position though and he should not be judged by the same standards of productivity as a winger which is basically what you are doing.

Young's basically been playing as a left winger since the Spurs game which if he only had 1 goal and one assist before then means he has managed 4 assists and one goal(if those CAF stats are correct) in 8 games as a winger which is generally pretty good going.

Shows to me that Young's basically been used as a stop gap solution because of Di Maria's suspension and done a generally good enough job to keep his place since then.

 

[Ole'sbodyguard]

More than half of his game has come as a starting winger. Only three as a full back. His wing back role was basically the same offensively as his winger role.

Before the City game Valencia had been more productive and effective from the right back spot but since then Young has been a lot better than Valencia.

Playing as a wing back is a very different role to playing as a wide player in a 4-3-3. You would expect much better numbers in terms of goals and assists from the latter.

 

[Orton]

Wing back and occasional full back is a very different job position though and he should not be judged by the same standards of productivity as a winger which is basically what you are doing.

Young's basically been playing as a left winger since the Spurs game which if he only had 1 goal and one assist before then means he has managed 4 assists and one goal(if those CAF stats are correct in 8 games as a winger which is generally pretty good going.

Shows to me that Young's basically been used as a stop gap solution because of Di Maria's suspension and done a generally good enough job to keep his place since then.

According to whoscored he has started 16 matches on the left wing. A few of those possibly as a wing back, but then it also includes a further 2 as an attacking left midfielder. Didn't know the 5 assists included the handball... 4 proper assists then, and 2 goals. Half of that came in 1 game.

 

[Snow]

Playing as a wing back is a very different role to playing as a wide player in a 4-3-3. You would expect much better numbers in terms of goals and assists from the latter.

You can call it a wingback but his role offensively was effectively the same. He was even less marked than now because of the congested midfield.

 

[Snow]

Not a chance.

So he didn't get forward, was expected to beat his man and put in crosses? Did he not stay out wide, hugging the line and make the occasional run forward when opportunity arrived?

 

[Orton]

Take into account Di Maria has started 19 matches, in 7 different positions (according to whoscored) and contributed 3 goals and 10 assists in the league. Young has started 18 of his matches on the left side/wing. Obviously general play is a big thing here, and Di Maria hasn't been anywhere near good enough in that sense, but stats wise, and comparing who offers more of a threat it should be a no brainer. Young's output is pretty shocking really.

Also, Di Maria has played a grand total of 144 minutes since Arsenal in the cup. Young has played 645. Clearly been given a much better chance of playing his way into form in one position.

 

[Ole'sbodyguard]

You can call it a wingback but his role offensively was effectively the same. He was even less marked than now because of the congested midfield.

His role was not "effectively the same". He had far more defensive responsibility as a wing back on either side of the pitch when we played three at the back.

In a 4-3-3 he actually has a full back behind him and his defensive responsibilities are far less onerous which means he spends far more time in attacking positions and in this system is allowed to press far higher up the field.

The positions are very different. You can't compare the two as if they are the same, especially when it comes to goals and assists. It should be fairly obvious a wide player in a 4-3-3 is going to be expected to create and score more than a wing back.

 

[Man-United]

So he didn't get forward, was expected to beat his man and put in crosses? Did he not stay out wide, hugging the line and make the occasional run forward when opportunity arrived?

Did you think Evra should have had plenty of goals and assists too then?
And no, I don't agree with you at all. It's a huge difference between the role he played at first compared to now.

 

[Ole'sbodyguard]

According to whoscored he has started 16 matches on the left wing. A few of those possibly as a wing back, but then it also includes a further 2 as an attacking left midfielder. Didn't know the 5 assists included the handball... 4 proper assists then, and 2 goals. Half of that came in 1 game.

I looked at whoscored and they basically have put down his games playing as a wing back as a left midfielder. It's a weird way of classifying those games. Anyone who watched us playing 3 at the back should be able to very easily identify that Young's role has been very different since we changed to this 4-3-3 system and dropped Di Maria.

I'm not arguing that Young should be a first team regular btw, I would hope Di Maria or Depay will have that role next season as I think they will be better players long-term. I just think that his stats and productivity should be judged appropriately and fairly in the right context. He's only been used as a winger in a very small sample of games this season and generally done well in the role.

 

[Man-United]

I'm not arguing that Young should be a first team regular btw, just that his stats and productivity should be judged appropriately in the right context. He's only been used as a winger in a very small sample of games this season and generally done well in the role.

Well, if it's between Young and Di Maria it's pretty simple for me, Young has performed for us this season, Di Maria just for a few games at the start of the season.

And if we should go on whoscored then Di Maria should not really be playing winger for us, as you know stats means so much for those who defend Di Maria.

 

[Orton]

Well, if it's between Young and Di Maria it's pretty simple for me, Young has performed for us this season, Di Maria just for a few games at the start of the season.

And if we should go on whoscored then Di Maria should not really be playing winger for us, as you know stats means so much for those who defend Di Maria.

They also show that he is being moved around more than any player in the league and not given a fair crack at one position in a settled side.

 

[Man-United]

They also show that he is being moved around more than any player in the league and not given a fair crack at one position in a settled side.

He has been given chances and not taken them. Simple for me.

 

[Ole'sbodyguard]

Well, if it's between Young and Di Maria it's pretty simple for me, Young has performed for us this season, Di Maria just for a few games at the start of the season.

And if we should go on whoscored then Di Maria should not really be playing winger for us, as you know stats means so much for those who defend Di Maria.

We have signed Depay as well now. I think Young has done well as a stop gap solution and has shown that he can provide goals and assists in that position, so he's proven his worth as part of the squad. I would hope eventually though he would be able to coax something like Di Maria's best form out of him if we were looking to win trophies next season. There's obviously a top class player there.

 

[Man-United]

Young's first game as a winger for us this season was on 28th of feb against Sunderland. In the games before he either played left back or left wing back.
In 10 games as winger he has 2 goals and 3 assists, but also gives so much more to our team than Di Maria this season imo.

 

[justboy68]

Jesus we have people wanting to give Nani another chance after 3 years of dross and getting booed off but for Ashley helping us get top 4 this season is still not worthy of praise. Laughable. Looks like LVG has judged the players rightly mind.

Nani helped us win a league title in the past yet doesn't stop you ripping into him. Young has hardly helped us that much even this season with his poor output. A better player in his place and we would have in all likelihood done better. In fact if Fergie hadn't made some dodgy signings in his last couple of seasons, with Young being a prime example, then there's hardly any doubt we'd be in a better situation than we currently find ourselves in. In that sense Young is a symbol of our demise and not remotely good enough to be a starter for United. Imagine him getting games at Barca, Bayern or Real? That's something truly laughable, yet when we bought him we were competing with these sides and we have the financial resources to do so again, so United's standards shouldn't be any lower. Young being a starter at United should be almost as much of a joke as the thought of him lining up alongside Messi and Suarez or Ronaldo and Rodriguez at the Spanish giants. It tells you exactly what has gone wrong when that isn't the case.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

Mata isn't a winger. Champions league a low level? Alright.

He's been used as one and his best periods have been as one. A champions League Group can be prettyu low level, Chelsea obviously arent' but he did feck all against them and Schalke is average and Maribor is Maribor.

He hasn't got a goal or assist against any of the top portuguese sides, while you've never even Heard of the ones he has scored against.

 

[Orton]

Young's first game as a winger for us this season was on 28th of feb against Sunderland. In the games before he either played left back or left wing back.
In 10 games as winger he has 2 goals and 3 assists, but also gives so much more to our team than Di Maria this season imo.

I'd guarantee you could stick any of our wingers out there for those 10 games and over 600 minutes and they would offer a bigger threat than Young. In comparison, in the same time Mata has 4 goals and an assist. Di Maria has 3 assists in under 200 mins of football, and no starts since Arsenal.

 

[Orton]

He's been used as one and his best periods have been as one. A champions League Group can be prettyu low level, Chelsea obviously arent' but he did feck all against them and Schalke is average and Maribor is Maribor.

He's been our best winger (obviously not with us) this season, played well against the best clubs in Portugal and was one of the best players in the group stages. If Young can come back from exile after 2 seasons of complete dross then why can't Nani be given another chance? He done a lot more for this club than Young ever did but you would think he was worse than Anderson the way people speak of him.

 

[Ole'sbodyguard]

Young's first game as a winger for us this season was on 28th of feb against Sunderland. In the games before he either played left back or left wing back.
In 10 games as winger he has 2 goals and 3 assists, but also gives so much more to our team than Di Maria this season imo.

Your right. Forget he played in that position in that game and then the Newcastle and Arsenal match.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

He's been our best winger (obviously not with us) this season, played well against the best clubs in Portugal and was one of the best players in the group stages. If Young can come back from exile after 2 seasons of complete dross then why can't Nani be given another chance? He done a lot more for this club than Young ever did but you would think he was worse than Anderson the way people speak of him.

Come-back is a bit strong, he's done alright but people exaggerate IMO. He's not been that much better than he's been previously. His goal/assist output is actually worse this year compared to last year and just slightly better than the year Before that. But you can depend on Young to give 100% and to help out the defense, the same can't be said for Nani. When he's not firing up front, and he hasn't been for us the last 2 seasons, he contributes feck all. He's an incredibly talented player but he just can't translate it into his performances consistantly enough. Obviously not as bad as Anderson but not far from it in the last 2 seasons for us which is sop far from what we need.

 

[Orton]

Come-back is a bit strong, he's done alright but people exaggerate IMO. He's not been that much better than he's been previously. His goal/assist output is actually worse this year compared to last year and just slightly better than the year Before that. But you can depend on Young to give 100% and to help out the defense, the same can't be said for Nani. When he's not firing up front, and he hasn't been for us the last 2 seasons, he contributes feck all. He's an incredibly talented player but he just can't translate it into his performances consistantly enough. Obviously not as bad as Anderson but not far from it in the last 2 seasons for us which is sop far from what we need.

He looks to have got a lot of confidence back from his loan spell. It would be a shame if we just flog him without giving him some sort of opportunity that the likes of Young has been given this season. Yeah, he offered nearly nothing for 2 years but that comes down to a variety of reasons, mainly injuries.

 

[ManUArfa]

I think people are forgetting the main problem with ADM and that's the amount of times he gives away the ball. Young is far more efficient with the ball and, despite this, he still seems to be able to take it past his man with a simple drop of the shoulder or a nutmeg. This provides a much better overall contribution (and thus balance) to the team which is why he's getting the nod. ADM is a more exciting player, no doubt, but he's also a high risk player. That's why he's only been coming on when we've needed to offer something different and when the opposition is tired.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

He looks to have got a lot of confidence back from his loan spell. It would be a shame if we just flog him without giving him some sort of opportunity that the likes of Young has been given this season. Yeah, he offered nearly nothing for 2 years but that comes down to a variety of reasons, mainly injuries.

If Van Gaal trusts him then I'm all for giving him another shot from a squad player role. It depends on a few things though, mainly if we hire another winger for our right side and then on wether Januzaj stays or leaves on loan. I wouldn't have him back in any role which meant that we would be dependant on him, or in one that could hurt Januzajs development.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Fair enough, I'll rephrase that by saying in terms of form and end product he's definitely ahead of most of the English wingers picked i.e. Sterling, Townsend, Welbeck etc.

his end product is most certainly not as good as either Sterling or Welbeck, both of whom are considerably younger than him as well. In fact the main criticism in here is the fact that despite this seemingly great come back season he's having, where he apparently looks a player reborn and has been our best outfield player in the eyes of some (lunatics), he still has 2 goals and 4/5 assists total, and his end product is worse than it was for us last season!

 

[caisenma]

his end product is most certainly not as good as either Sterling or Welbeck, both of whom are considerably younger than him as well. In fact the main criticism in here is the fact that despite this seemingly great come back season he's having, where he apparently looks a player reborn and has been our best outfield player in the eyes of some (lunatics), he still has 2 goals and 4/5 assists total, and his end product is worse than it was for us last season!

and i'd wager he has had a lot more minutes as well.

 

[caisenma]

oh geez. it was cina. i keep quoting him in here. no cina, i'm not following you, but i'll brace for a barrage of withering verbal abuse nevertheless.

 

[stepic]

If we have any designs on European glory Ashley Young should be nowhere near the starting 11. Nor should Fellaini, Valencia and Blind for that matter.

 

[Snowjoe]

If we have any designs on European glory Ashley Young should be nowhere near the starting 11. Nor should Fellaini, Valencia and Blind for that matter.

There is always space for Blind in the squad with hair like that. The glorious bastard.

 

[caisenma]

There is always space for Blind in the squad with hair like that. The glorious bastard.

this is not up for debate. and his performances in general have been excellent for us too.

 

[Steven Seagull]

This "beating his man" that people keep mentioning, is that when he moves the ball back onto his right foot 535 times before whipping a cross straight onto the centre backs head? I can recall Young beating a man about 4 times all season and 2 of them were CB's playing as full backs.

 

[Ole'sbodyguard]

This "beating his man" that people keep mentioning, is that when he moves the ball back onto his right foot 535 times before whipping a cross straight onto the centre backs head? I can recall Young beating a man about 4 times all season and 2 of them were CB's playing as full backs.

Did you watch the Palace match? I can remember him beating his man 4 times in the second half. It was simple as knocking the ball passed the full back and outpacing him but Young regularly beat Ward in the second half.

 

[Sam]

If we have any designs on European glory Ashley Young should be nowhere near the starting 11. Nor should Fellaini, Valencia and Blind for that matter.

Brutally harsh, but bang on the money.

If we start next season with any of those 4 as 'first teamers' then something has gone seriously wrong in the Summer, and any hope of winning the title will be lost already.

 

[mattsville]

Brutally harsh, but bang on the money.

If we start next season with any of those 4 as 'first teamers' then something has gone seriously wrong in the Summer, and any hope of winning the title will be lost already.

I know where this sentiment and observation is coming from, they have definitely shown enough this season to still be here next season as part of the squad and offer options but if our expectations are set correctly they won't be starters, I can see the front 3 being very different (no Fellaini) once we get a more solid defence and dynamic midfielder to allow a more expansive and free flowing attack, the signing of Depay and LVG's recent comment on signing a player in the Carrick role is evidence of that.

 

[Sam]

I know where this sentiment and observation is coming from, they have definitely shown enough this season to still be here next season as part of the squad and offer options but if our expectations are set correctly they won't be starters, I can see the front 3 being very different (no Fellaini) once we get a more solid defence and dynamic midfielder to allow a more expansive and free flowing attack, the signing of Depay and LVG's recent comment on signing a player in the Carrick role is evidence of that.

Agreed, all four deserve a place in the squad for now. But none should be nailed on starters.

 

[Snow]

Did you think Evra should have had plenty of goals and assists too then?
And no, I don't agree with you at all. It's a huge difference between the role he played at first compared to now.

Evra played full back with a winger in front of him. Young as a wing back is a different thing.

 

[Snow]

His role was not "effectively the same". He had far more defensive responsibility as a wing back on either side of the pitch when we played three at the back.

In a 4-3-3 he actually has a full back behind him and his defensive responsibilities are far less onerous which means he spends far more time in attacking positions and in this system is allowed to press far higher up the field.

The positions are very different. You can't compare the two as if they are the same, especially when it comes to goals and assists. It should be fairly obvious a wide player in a 4-3-3 is going to be expected to create and score more than a wing back.

I said his role offensively. He had the whole wing to himself.