More confident than before but it is hard to really know how things are going so far, particularly in terms of mid/long term progress before the new signing bed in properly (or don't). You also suspect that, barring a huge change of form, ETH is a dead man walking. Who we get to replace him, and when, will have a big influence. Obviously.
Are you confident of success in the INEOS era?
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Mid-season sackings are never ideal. Unless you have someone with the pedigree of Klopp waiting in the wings jobless. That kind of once in a lifetime opportunity is very rarely available.
Right now it's about preventing the rot and trying to salvage something out of the season, with no guarantees that it will work (Didn't work with Rangnick). That is why it would have been prudent to relieve ETH during the summer and get someone going from the pre-season on. We will quite literally be rolling the dice now unless we can convince Zidane or Klopp to take over.
No, really dislike Brailsford on board.
If they've actually voted to keep Ten Hag because they think he's going to turn it around, then I have no confidence whatsoever.
It's impossible to make any sense of how they could look at all the data available and decide that it's the right thing to keep him on. (Other than they can't afford it)
Zero confidence if they don't sack him.
Zero confidence if they don't sack him.
Yes
When do they have to sack him though?
The hysteria seems to be based on it not having happened immediately yesterday.
Not confident really, based on the Ten Hag farce at this point. They wont sack him this year, even if we end up in the relegation zone, he has jester's licence. It is like they are hell bent on giving him all the time this season and basically crashing this season to the wall just to keep this fool at the helm and back their stupid decision in the summer.
Although there have been promising signs, they haven't demonstrated that killer instinct/ decisiveness you would expect is needed, but its still very early days so I won't write there chances off yet.
It has to be in this break. No benefit from dragging it out.
Yes
True but I never thought it would happen 10 mins after the meeting ended either.
What I noticed in the Phil Jones/Rio podcast was that Phil was still talking of the club like it was cut throat.
He was saying if you don't reach an elite level, if you don't match the standards of the past, you're out.
But that is objectively not true. You can be at United for 5 to 10 years doing bugger all. Phil himself managed that.
Mayne first thing INEOS can do on the road to success is work out why players feel they're in a top level, eilte, sporting environment when they're clearly not. They're actually in an incredibly soft, giving, sporting environment.
I wonder if they are talking to who they want to take over Ten Hag before they sack him
I don’t think they are going to be aiming particularly highly, ie despite the talk about getting us back to title race by 2028 I think they will be happy with much, much less than that. I think our ambitions have already gone down to a pretty low level and they are about to sink further. Eventually it will probably become more like get us back to CL by 2027-28 rather than any title race kind of thing.
This isn't a promising start
I honestly believe they know what they are doing and are well aware of ETH's shortcomings.
I believe they've already got a manager lined up, but he's not available right now which is why ETH is still here.
I believe they've already got a manager lined up, but he's not available right now which is why ETH is still here.
They had a great start to be fair, but the handling of EtH in the summer and now; it’s not looking good.
If they keep him now they are not able to correct mistakes. That’s not leadership at all.
Getting the best managers at this point will probably be hard, but it’s possible to get someone talented or a care taker while working on someone long term.
If they keep him now they are not able to correct mistakes. That’s not leadership at all.
Getting the best managers at this point will probably be hard, but it’s possible to get someone talented or a care taker while working on someone long term.
Possible. Would fit their pattern of waiting months for people they want and while doing that wasting the clubs time, money and chances to win stuff.
It happened this way wirh Ashworth and Berrada, so why should it be different for the manager position?
However hopefully you and I are wrong.
Yep. I think the short term narratives that drive football are hard to look past. United not scoring goals, oh you're losers for not signing an attacker or 2x CBs injured, we don't have squad depth or Eriksen gassed after 60 mins, we don't have midfielders. Hojlund is injured, oh no how can United not have a WC striker !?!?
If you're not doing well, you can pick and choose some narrative of choice and run with it.
I think overall the squad is in a healthier place. We sold well. Everyone brings up 200m spend ignoring the net spend this year entirely. Of course we need some attacking talent and probably a better coach but they'll make the right calls without too much messing about.
If you're not doing well, you can pick and choose some narrative of choice and run with it.
I think overall the squad is in a healthier place. We sold well. Everyone brings up 200m spend ignoring the net spend this year entirely. Of course we need some attacking talent and probably a better coach but they'll make the right calls without too much messing about.
Had it. Still seeing 10hag around, lost it.
Absolutely not.
Pretty much this. I was confident when they arrived, but not so much anymore after how they've handled the manager situation.
I don't expect us to compete for the league or even get back into the Champions League any time soon.
Things aren't looking any more promising now than they were before SJR entered the picture.
Things aren't looking any more promising now than they were before SJR entered the picture.
The first red flag really occurred in the summer when Ten Hag was still in the job. That's cool though, I expect a mistake from any hierarchy.
The real problem is that they still have him in charge, they've made the same mistake twice, and seem to be in state of inertia in terms of actually making a decision.
I don't actually think we have the money to sack him, but then it begs the question, why did we extend his contract by a year? That just means the money would have to pay out has doubled.
The real problem is that they still have him in charge, they've made the same mistake twice, and seem to be in state of inertia in terms of actually making a decision.
I don't actually think we have the money to sack him, but then it begs the question, why did we extend his contract by a year? That just means the money would have to pay out has doubled.
This needs a poll
I find this weird but then if you’re solely looking at table position without anything else understandable.
When you look wider at the club and it’s future so much has changed and moved forward since January I’m staggering any genuine fan of the club can’t acknowledge that.
The stadium progress, Carrington, overhaul of football operations including appointing a number of best in class individuals to key roles. Even the smoothness of the transfer window and the signing of Leny Yoro should be acknowledged as a major coup.
When you look at other levels of the club, such as the youth academy, we have some fantastic player’s in each age group with the under 18s winning everything they possibly could. Then you look at the signing of Obi Martin from Arsenal and the other deals we are doing to further strengthen for the future.
The only thing INEOS haven’t done yet is actually identify and pick their manager. Remember Ten Hag wasn’t their choice.
I think there’s plenty to be positive about now despite the difficulties on field and I’m pretty optimistic about the future moving forward. The next manager choice needs to be the right one as it’s potentially the last part of the puzzle and the man Berrada and the others want to deliver this project.
I understand people are frustrated and impatient but you must have your head firmly in the sand if you can’t see how things are improving at the club.
I did not any more after their apparent blindness towards the manager
They should never have kept him on last summer, remember when no top 4 used to be a sacking offence?
Yet we continue in free fall and now they won't pull the trigger because they obviously don't want to admit keeping him in the summer was a stupid decision
We are closer to relegation than winning everything at this point
They should never have kept him on last summer, remember when no top 4 used to be a sacking offence?
Yet we continue in free fall and now they won't pull the trigger because they obviously don't want to admit keeping him in the summer was a stupid decision
We are closer to relegation than winning everything at this point
This!
I was very underwhelmed by our first window under Ineos direction.
With the exception of Yoro, we're still just buying players who top clubs decided couldn't hack it at that level. Zirkzee, Ugarte, de Ligt, and Mazraoui are players who are fine if your goal is to compete for 5th but they're never going to turn you into a team that wins the EPL or goes deep in the CL.
We will not compete until we have world class players. In the current squad, there are probably only two players who have potential to be world class, Mainoo and Yoro, and given our track record the club are more likely to derail their careers than turn them into world beaters.
If Ineos are serious about bringing the club back to its former glory they'll be in for players like Osimhen, Musiala, Lamine Yamal, Nico, Vini Jr, Camavinga, Kimmich, Davies, etc. Every summer it's pretty much a foregone conclusions that the best players available will either go to Madrid, Barca, or City. We've gotta disrupt that if we're gonna get back to that level.
It's funny you name players like Osimhen, Vini Jr, Camavinga, Davies etc. None of whom were world-class players when they signed for their teams
I've not been a big fan of this INEOS concept from the start (think it's just a smokescreen for more of the same Glazers crap), but I won't rule judgement on them so early.
The decision to keep/sack ten Hag seems to compromise that season but that might have been their "intention" from the start. They haven't exactly made any marquee signings, just improved depth in areas where it was needed. Not signing a LB was an oversight but ten Hag probably played a role there with his inverted full back idea. In the meantime, they've sold some deadwood and trimmed the squad size.
Looking from a distance, it seems like they're okay with biding time and letting ten Hag take the flak while they decide on the next manager/signings. Ten Hag himself said that the board had decided to go in the direction of signing young players, which probably means a) they don't trust him with the big signings, and b) at the same time, they're ensuring squad depth with decent/promising players who will be handy for any manager.
This strategy does mean that this season is a write-off. For us fans, that is unacceptable but for them, it's the initial phase of a project where no rash decisions are to be made. The manager will either redeem himself or be the scapegoat for the write-off..
The decision to keep/sack ten Hag seems to compromise that season but that might have been their "intention" from the start. They haven't exactly made any marquee signings, just improved depth in areas where it was needed. Not signing a LB was an oversight but ten Hag probably played a role there with his inverted full back idea. In the meantime, they've sold some deadwood and trimmed the squad size.
Looking from a distance, it seems like they're okay with biding time and letting ten Hag take the flak while they decide on the next manager/signings. Ten Hag himself said that the board had decided to go in the direction of signing young players, which probably means a) they don't trust him with the big signings, and b) at the same time, they're ensuring squad depth with decent/promising players who will be handy for any manager.
This strategy does mean that this season is a write-off. For us fans, that is unacceptable but for them, it's the initial phase of a project where no rash decisions are to be made. The manager will either redeem himself or be the scapegoat for the write-off..
There is no reason to believe that having a rebuild and actually improving is not possible at the same time. In fact, continuing with a genuinely awful manager will make the rebuild longer and it will likely break, maybe for good, our young players.
I find it hard to be confident in them considering their clear indecisiveness on ETH.
Agreed. Also they want us to have a recognisable way of playing at all levels. I can't believe this way is EtHs. Get the man in who will play the way they want.
Pretty much this. INEOS will be judged on their long term achievements, some of the management have been in the job for barely 5 months and there seems to be a toxic portion of the 'Caf that have already written them off.
Every single minute that ETH stays in charge after his disaster class in the league and Europe is a further black mark against INEOS.
He should have been sacked days after the FA cup final
He should have been sacked days after the FA cup final
Some people think the fortunes of this club can chance at a flick of a switch. This is going to take years and there seems to be a sizable portion of our fanbase who can't face that reality. We'll probably not see a Premier League title or Champions League title this decade. We are miles behind in pretty much every measurable way compared to Liverpool/Arsenal/City.
INEOS are just acting like ten Hag. Inept!
Things can change very quickly in football. Teams are nowhere near and then 2-3 years later they are up there with the best (or sometimes it’s the other way around). Leverkusen were down there mid-table and soon after went a season without losing a game. Villa were middling or worse and are now playing Bayern in CL.
100% agreed. Also, to add to your argument, we are probably the best equipped club with the most resources that to turn things around quickly.
Sometimes, you can have great minds at sporting level, but your project still takes a good number of years to achieve it's goal, because of a lack of resources. Even for Arsenal under Arteta, and Liverpool under Klopp, it slowed down their progress and also stagnated it in the latter's case, despite both being relatively very rich clubs.
United and Ineos/Ratcliffe don't have that obstacle in their way. Both are filthy rich.