Are you confident of success in the INEOS era?

[horsechoker]

They need to be more ruthless and proactive with managers. I don’t like this system under the Glazers where we give them performance clauses based on Champions League qualification or something and then seemingly chain ourselves to them. God knows how many seasons could have been turned around if someone with balls just sacked the manager at the time and got a new one. We wait far, far too long to do anything.

Can you imagine Real Madrid tolerating the risk of not making Champions League football? They’d sack the manager and hire a new one in the blink of an eye to try turn things around. We just seem to sit there and accept our fate.

They sacked a manager for winning the champions league!

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

Because we’re hiring a bunch of people to set a way of us playing and then we hire a manager who doesn’t match that. Surely it makes sense to get the people to set the template of what we want and then replace the manager (which is a costly thing to do).

Firing managers costs a lot.

ten Hag only has a year left on his deal. It's not that expensive. They'll be signing players for a lot more money than what it costs to sack him.

If INEOS continue on with ten Hag beyond this season, my confidence in them would plummet to 0%. He has to go. I get the impression that you don't mind ten Hag?

 

[pascell]

I expect they'll keep ten Hag another season, simply because they'll want the structure in place (including Ashworth) before choosing the next manager.

I also think we're a good 3 seasons away from challenging, I expect the likes of Villa, Chelsea and Spurs to be stronger and more consistent next season, which increases the bar set to better.

 

[Berbasbullet]

ten Hag only has a year left on his deal. It's not that expensive. They'll be signing players for a lot more money than what it costs to sack him.

If INEOS continue on with ten Hag beyond this season, my confidence in them would plummet to 0%. He has to go. I get the impression that you don't mind ten Hag?

The sacking Ten Hag bit isn’t what I’m on about. It’s hiring someone else who doesn’t match the new structures vision and then sacking the new manager.

For me, get the structure in place and let them call the shots.

 

[Shark]

I expect they'll keep ten Hag another season, simply because they'll want the structure in place (including Ashworth) before choosing the next manager.

I also think we're a good 3 seasons away from challenging, I expect the likes of Villa, Chelsea and Spurs to be stronger and more consistent next season, which increases the bar set to better.

You honestly think new ownership that'll want to quickly make a statement of intent going forward, will just ignore current results and performances because of structure? because if that's the case we're truly doomed.

 

[OsloRed]

ten Hag only has a year left on his deal. It's not that expensive. They'll be signing players for a lot more money than what it costs to sack him.

If INEOS continue on with ten Hag beyond this season, my confidence in them would plummet to 0%. He has to go. I get the impression that you don't mind ten Hag?

I think the point is that hiring a new manager before the structure is in place is a risk. If that manager doesn't fit and doesn't work, that will be an expensive mistake. More importantly, it'll have cost us a lot of time. But this point has been made several times over the last couple of pages.

 

[Berbasbullet]

I think the point is that hiring a new manager before the structure is in place is a risk. If that manager doesn't fit and doesn't work, that will be an expensive mistake. More importantly, it'll have cost us a lot of time. But this point has been made several times over the last couple of pages.

This is my point exactly.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

The sacking Ten Hag bit isn’t what I’m on about. It’s hiring someone else who doesn’t match the new structures vision and then sacking the new manager.

For me, get the structure in place and let them call the shots.

But the new structure will be hiring him. Wilcox is already here and City are allowing Berrada to move on amicably. Ashworth can make decisions from the shadows. There is no way that he's not in regular contacts with Sir Jim. He will be getting regular updates from Wilcox on things. Football is a shady business. INEOS already have a big database and tools to aid them with decision making.

It would be depressing to see ten Hag in the dugout come August.

 

[OsloRed]

You honestly think new ownership that'll want to quickly make a statement of intent going forward, will just ignore current results and performances because of structure? because if that's the case we're truly doomed.

I'd say that's the smart way of going about it. Sacking EtH and hiring a new manager now would be doing the same thing we've done the last ten years. INEOS is actually making meaningful changes to the organization around the first team, and making big decisions right now before it is in place would be to shoot themselves in the foot. It's painful right now, but they believe the course they've set us on will be better in the long term. Walking towards the right decision, not running to the wrong one as Ratcliffe said.

 

[AndySmith1990]

I'd say that's the smart way of going about it. Sacking EtH and hiring a new manager now would be doing the same thing we've done the last ten years. INEOS is actually making meaningful changes to the organization around the first team, and making big decisions right now before it is in place would be to shoot themselves in the foot. It's painful right now, but they believe the course they've set us on will be better in the long term. Walking towards the right decision, not running to the wrong one as Ratcliffe said.

Ten Hag is clearly not the right man though, whether we're walking or running to the next destination. No amount of trying to rationalise it with talk of structure gets around that cold hard fact

 

[Shark]

I'd say that's the smart way of going about it. Sacking EtH and hiring a new manager now would be doing the same thing we've done the last ten years. INEOS is actually making meaningful changes to the organization around the first team, and making big decisions right now before it is in place would be to shoot themselves in the foot. It's painful right now, but they believe the course they've set us on will be better in the long term. Walking towards the right decision, not running to the wrong one as Ratcliffe said.

You cannot give a manager that's being dominated by championship level sides home and away, another season. There's nothing smart whatsoever about that. We're essentially saying that we should just plod along regardless of results and performances because our previous set of below par managers failed also. Madness.

 

[Rojofiam]

They need to be more ruthless and proactive with managers. I don’t like this system under the Glazers where we give them performance clauses based on Champions League qualification or something and then seemingly chain ourselves to them. God knows how many seasons could have been turned around if someone with balls just sacked the manager at the time and got a new one. We wait far, far too long to do anything.

Can you imagine Real Madrid tolerating the risk of not making Champions League football? They’d sack the manager and hire a new one in the blink of an eye to try turn things around. We just seem to sit there and accept our fate.

Fans need to get the Ferguson comparisons out of their heads. He was a pretty hotshot manager before he even stepped foot in Old Trafford. He was not some average joe manager who magically blossomed into the GOAT manager just because United persisted with him.

Real Madrid haven't had to worry about top 4 in La Liga for about 20 years now. The Premier League is a totally different ballgame. Says it all that they wouldn't be higher than 3rd this season if they played in it instead of La Liga.

 

[OsloRed]

But the new structure will be hiring him. Wilcox is already here and City are allowing Berrada to move on amicably. Ashworth can make decisions from the shadows. There is no way that he's not in regular contacts with Sir Jim. He will be getting regular updates from Wilcox on things. Football is a shady business. INEOS already have a big database and tools to aid them with decision making.

It would be depressing to see ten Hag in the dugout come August.

They might hire a new manager in the summer, but it takes time to put a new organizational structure in place. Wilcox being here now means the work has started, but it will take time. Hopefully we see some improvement in recruitment this summer, but expecting everything to be in place just because Wilcox and Berrada is in their offices is unrealistic. We need to be patient.

I want to see change in the managerial position too, believe me, but I wouldn't be too surprised to see ten Hag here in August. That wouldn't make me believe INEOS is just as bad as the Glazers, however.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

They might hire a new manager in the summer, but it takes time to put a new organizational structure in place. Wilcox being here now means the work has started, but it will take time. Hopefully we see some improvement in recruitment this summer, but expecting everything to be in place just because Wilcox and Berrada is in their offices is unrealistic. We need to be patient.

I want to see change in the managerial position too, believe me, but I wouldn't be too surprised to see ten Hag here in August. That wouldn't make me believe INEOS is just as bad as the Glazers, however.

I'd retire from watching football. Each to their own.

 

[OsloRed]

Ten Hag is clearly not the right man though, whether we're walking or running to the next destination. No amount of trying to rationalise it with talk of structure gets around that cold hard fact

You cannot give a manager that's being dominated by championship level sides home and away, another season. There's nothing smart whatsoever about that. We're essentially saying that we should just plod along regardless of results and performances because our previous set of below par managers failed also. Madness.

I agree that he isn't the right man. I was originally answering to people wanting the decision to be made right now, which I disagreed with. I do believe that he is a better manager than the results this season would indicate but I think it has gone too far and would take a miracle to salvage at this point. However, making decisions before structures have come in place could be disastrous. Wrong steps now could have us being in a similar situation in a year, and that would be an expensive mistake to make. I'd rather give ten Hag some more time, even into next season, while Wilcox and Berrada (when he starts) gets the structure functioning. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

I'd rather we get a manager in this summer but the market is hard right now, so who knows what it looks like in two months.

 

[pascell]

You honestly think new ownership that'll want to quickly make a statement of intent going forward, will just ignore current results and performances because of structure? because if that's the case we're truly doomed.

It's been reported many times INEOS will leave the decision up to the people within the new structure.

 

[Dan_F]

Yes and no. Sacking him now is pointless. Looking for a replacement is essential. I hope this is taking place behind the scenes, because other clubs are getting their ducks in a row, and we will find ourselves with an ever decreasing pool of candidates.

Unlesss, that is, INEOS is waiting for Southgate.

I’m sure they are, but there will be a period of waiting to get the right people through the door first. Realistically, Wilcox is the first person in who is qualified to in put into these kind of decisions and he joined last week. It won’t be Brailsford or Jim choosing the manager, rightfully so.

 

[The Mitcher]

I think the point is that hiring a new manager before the structure is in place is a risk. If that manager doesn't fit and doesn't work, that will be an expensive mistake. More importantly, it'll have cost us a lot of time. But this point has been made several times over the last couple of pages.

Hiring any manager in any context is a risk, such a moot point.

 

[The Mitcher]

It's been reported many times INEOS will leave the decision up to the people within the new structure.

They aren't all here yet, so someone has to make a decision and stop dithering. It's cost us champions league football.

 

[OsloRed]

Hiring any manager in any context is a risk, such a moot point.

Yes, it is, but the point still isn't moot. The situation at United atm is special, and makes it more of a risk than usual.

 

[Hammondo]

They aren't all here yet, so someone has to make a decision and stop dithering. It's cost us champions league football.

There is no way they were going to make that decision early enough to give us a chance of CL, who would they even get in? That would have been a panic decision and have looked really weak.

 

[The Mitcher]

There is no way they were going to make that decision early enough to give us a chance of CL, who would they even get in? That would have been a panic decision and have looked really weak.

Does it matter? There are managers all over the top leagues, many of whom are doing better than ETH who can come in. There are even very well regarded managers who are out of a job like Conte who could have been an interim.

 

[DevilRed]

It's been reported many times INEOS will leave the decision up to the people within the new structure.

Maybe we are actually finally going to be a modern football club. Amazing.

 

[pocco]

If we've genuinely moved early to solidify Rashford's position at the club, and are considering keeping ETH, then the fecking alarm bells are going to be ringing soon... They're just going to make the same mistakes as always, if so.

Let's see how this plays out.

 

[Ish]

I'm hopeful mostly due to the fact that we'll have actual competent people in charge of making footballing decisions. It'll obviously not be an overnight improvement and they won't get everything right either. So I guess we'll see.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Lack of interest in dead career footballers like Choupo-Moting or Arnautović is somekind of a start, I guess... The day Berrada will step into the office could be still quite a shock for him.

There's just so many things in need of immediate attention, he'll definitely need Sir Jim, Ashworth & Wilcox to step in strong. Perhaps success is somewhat still achievable in the right mindset, but the club is pure styrofoam right now.

 

[Melville Red]

The sacking Ten Hag bit isn’t what I’m on about. It’s hiring someone else who doesn’t match the new structures vision and then sacking the new manager.

For me, get the structure in place and let them call the shots.

That sounds too sensible an idea.

 

[Melville Red]

Lack of interest in dead career footballers like Choupo-Moting or Arnautović is somekind of a start, I guess... The day Berrada will step into the office could be still quite a shock for him.

There's just so many things in need of immediate attention, he'll definitely need Sir Jim, Ashworth & Wilcox to step in strong. Perhaps success is somewhat still achievable in the right mindset, but the club is pure styrofoam right now.

It might take them a while to find the treasury tags and the one hole punch.

 

[Van Piorsing]

It might take them a while to find the treasury tags and the one hole punch.

Heh. They should probably just burn it to the ground, but they actually need to come up with coordinated plan this time. I doubt even Sir Jim deploying Bruce Wayne bucks will help against obstacles, the club created for themselves.

 

[Melville Red]

Heh. They should probably just burn it to the ground, but they actually need to come up with coordinated plan this time. I doubt even Sir Jim deploying Bruce Wayne bucks will help against obstacles, the club created for themselves.

Very true.

 

[Kaos]

If they're serious about keeping Rashford (assuming its not a bluff) and if the talk of us bringing in Southgate/Potter as Ten Hag's replacement is real, then I'll start to cast serious doubts.

Until then I'll choose to remain optimistic.

I think its too soon to come any conclusions anyway.

 

[Juice Juiced]

Nah.
They are slow.

 

[TheNewEra]

They might hire a new manager in the summer, but it takes time to put a new organizational structure in place. Wilcox being here now means the work has started, but it will take time. Hopefully we see some improvement in recruitment this summer, but expecting everything to be in place just because Wilcox and Berrada is in their offices is unrealistic. We need to be patient.

I want to see change in the managerial position too, believe me, but I wouldn't be too surprised to see ten Hag here in August. That wouldn't make me believe INEOS is just as bad as the Glazers, however.

I expect top 3 or top 4 next year as a target honestly.

We're bigger than Spurs and Villa, that's the benchmark IMO.

 

[noodlehair]

Any confidence I did have (and there wasn't a lot other than it being based on "lets wait and see what they do") has been completely removed with this "our whole squad is for sale" stupidity.

Its the sort of thing a child or one of the more unhinged people on here would do. Throw the toys out of the pram because CL qualification has disappeared over the horizon and it means your wallet gets hurt, basically. Shouldn't have fecking taken on part ownership under the mantra of wanting to make the club successful again if you weren't prepared for an entirely forseable thing to happen that might make it more difficult.

There's no actual sound strategy to it because whatever you raise ofree up selling players will need to be re-invested to replace them, and if you've undervalued every single player but putting them all up for sale at once, any money you recoup from that is only going to get you someone worse, or at best a young/unproven player who will be a big gamble.

There is no example of a team that has been successful by effectively trying to threaten its players into doing better. There is no example of a team that's sold and replaced most of its squad in a very short space of time (without losing a sh*t tonne of money in the process) and then suddenly got loads better. Most of the time when teams have done things like this they have ended up getting relegated.

Its dangerous to pretend hat INEOS are doing isn't extremely stupid/wreckless based on nothing other than them being new/not the Glazers. Ratcliffe, and this was my issue with him from the start, has a track record of this sort of behavour. Where he doesn't seem to understand that paying people money doesn't mean they are slave to his will. It might work when you're up against weak unions or near minimum wage workers. It isn't going to work as a tactic on millionaire footballers or the nuances of creating a succesfully performing football team from them.

Also, our wage bill is the 4th highest in the league I think? We finished 3rd last year and won a cup. We will probably be 6th-7th this year and are in the final of a cup. If you're looking at it purely financially, they haven't underperformed to anywhere near a bad enough level to justify throwing them all out the door. The season when they weren't ravaged by injuries, strange management and the club going through a sale/not sale fiasco for months on end, they actually over performed.

 

[Stobzilla]

Any confidence I did have (and there wasn't a lot other than it being based on "lets wait and see what they do") has been completely removed with this "our whole squad is for sale" stupidity.

Its the sort of thing a child or one of the more unhinged people on here would do. Throw the toys out of the pram because CL qualification has disappeared over the horizon and it means your wallet gets hurt, basically. Shouldn't have fecking taken on part ownership under the mantra of wanting to make the club successful again if you weren't prepared for an entirely forseable thing to happen that might make it more difficult.

There's no actual sound strategy to it because whatever you raise ofree up selling players will need to be re-invested to replace them, and if you've undervalued every single player but putting them all up for sale at once, any money you recoup from that is only going to get you someone worse, or at best a young/unproven player who will be a big gamble.

There is no example of a team that has been successful by effectively trying to threaten its players into doing better. There is no example of a team that's sold and replaced most of its squad in a very short space of time (without losing a sh*t tonne of money in the process) and then suddenly got loads better. Most of the time when teams have done things like this they have ended up getting relegated.

Its dangerous to pretend hat INEOS are doing isn't extremely stupid/wreckless based on nothing other than them being new/not the Glazers. Ratcliffe, and this was my issue with him from the start, has a track record of this sort of behavour. Where he doesn't seem to understand that paying people money doesn't mean they are slave to his will. It might work when you're up against weak unions or near minimum wage workers. It isn't going to work as a tactic on millionaire footballers or the nuances of creating a succesfully performing football team from them.

Also, our wage bill is the 4th highest in the league I think? We finished 3rd last year and won a cup. We will probably be 6th-7th this year and are in the final of a cup. If you're looking at it purely financially, they haven't underperformed to anywhere near a bad enough level to justify throwing them all out the door. The season when they weren't ravaged by injuries, strange management and the club going through a sale/not sale fiasco for months on end, they actually over performed.

I don't think it's.quite as deep as all that, it's probably been identified that there are only 3 players we definitely want to keep and that like any sane club, we will consider the right offers for anyone else.

I don't think it has been suggested that we take losses or accept any bid that comes through the door.

 

[noodlehair]

I don't think it's.quite as deep as all that, it's probably been identified that there are only 3 players we definitely want to keep and that like any sane club, we will consider the right offers for anyone else.

I don't think it has been suggested that we take losses or accept any bid that comes through the door.

I don't think you publicly let it be known you'll consider offers for your entire squad unless there is a reason...and I can't think of a reason that isn't a stupid one.

Apart from the obvious non contributors who we'd struggle to get any kind of offer for, or anyone who actively wants to leave, I can't think of any players we can afford to let go before identifying a replacement. We've barely had enough defenders or forwards fit all season and our midfield is held together by a teenager and a 32 year old.

I would be more inclined to look at why our manager has brought or signed 6 midfielders into the team since he joined yet refuses to play with a midfield, or why a player he publicly fell out with is performing well in a CL semi final for a different team.

Or in other words don't start thinking about selling and replacing assets at all when you aren't even utilising them well enough to possibly know what you can afford to keep/lose

 

[Todd]

I expect top 3 or top 4 next year as a target honestly.

We're bigger than Spurs and Villa, that's the benchmark IMO.

As grim as things are looking right now, that's honestly not an unreasonable thing to aim for next season.

City and Arsenal are well clear of everyone, but with all the big changes looming at Liverpool one would expect them to fall off next season. Villa I wouldn't be surprised to see pull a Newcastle and have some difficulty adjusting to their newfound Champions League lifestyle. You never know with Spurs, and unfortunately Chelsea are a club that definitely seem to be on the right trajectory.

With some key summer moves and a bit more luck on the injury front I could definitely see us challenging for 3rd or 4th with Chelsea and Liverpool.

 

[Lyng]

The whole forcing people back in to the office is a weird turn of events.

 

[Shinjch]

The whole forcing people back in to the office is a weird turn of events.

They are probably hoping that it helps them with cost cutting too, which is pretty underhanded.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

If we look at what they have done at Nice it's nothing to get excited about. After 4 years of ownership, they finished 9th in the league.