Are you confident of success in the INEOS era?

They need to be more ruthless and proactive with managers. I don’t like this system under the Glazers where we give them performance clauses based on Champions League qualification or something and then seemingly chain ourselves to them. God knows how many seasons could have been turned around if someone with balls just sacked the manager at the time and got a new one. We wait far, far too long to do anything.

Can you imagine Real Madrid tolerating the risk of not making Champions League football? They’d sack the manager and hire a new one in the blink of an eye to try turn things around. We just seem to sit there and accept our fate.

Fans need to get the Ferguson comparisons out of their heads. He was a pretty hotshot manager before he even stepped foot in Old Trafford. He was not some average joe manager who magically blossomed into the GOAT manager just because United persisted with him.
 
Chairman Steve said:
They need to be more ruthless and proactive with managers. I don’t like this system under the Glazers where we give them performance clauses based on Champions League qualification or something and then seemingly chain ourselves to them. God knows how many seasons could have been turned around if someone with balls just sacked the manager at the time and got a new one. We wait far, far too long to do anything.

Can you imagine Real Madrid tolerating the risk of not making Champions League football? They’d sack the manager and hire a new one in the blink of an eye to try turn things around. We just seem to sit there and accept our fate.

Fans need to get the Ferguson comparisons out of their heads. He was a pretty hotshot manager before he even stepped foot in Old Trafford. He was not some average joe manager who magically blossomed into the GOAT manager just because United persisted with him.
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Tbf for Real Madrid not making it into the CL would be the equivalent of United hovering about the relegation zone. La Liga is so skewed towards two clubs that it would be almost impossible for them not to qualify.
 
Unfortunately we are seeing all of the same indecision as in previous years.

I will wait until the start of next season before making a definitive opinion.

ETH has failed at everything this season. Literally everything.

Finishing bottom of the CL group would have been enough for most top teams to sack him.

If he stays after this season then I will lose all faith in Ineos being any different from the Glazers.
 
Garethw said:
Unfortunately we are seeing all of the same indecision as in previous years.

I will wait until the start of next season before making a definitive opinion.

ETH has failed at everything this season. Literally everything.

Finishing bottom of the CL group would have been enough for most top teams to sack him.

If he stays after this season then I will lose all faith in Ineos being any different from the Glazers.
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Well he hasn’t literally failed at everything has he?

They aren’t being indecisive at all, they’re hiring key people into footballing roles to make decisions I.e. what everyone on the cafe has been calling for for years.
 
Berbasbullet said:
Well he hasn’t literally failed at everything has he?

They aren’t being indecisive at all, they’re hiring key people into footballing roles to make decisions I.e. what everyone on the cafe has been calling for for years.
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This season he has failed every single metric that matters.

We may very well win the FA Cup but can you honestly see it with his suicidal tactics?
 
Garethw said:
This season he has failed every single metric that matters.

We may very well win the FA Cup but can you honestly see it with his suicidal tactics?
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He hasn’t literally failed at everything though has he? That’s what you said.

Doesn’t matter, he’s got us to the final, that isn’t failure.
 
Slightly more than the previous regime but the trust has to be earned. It's easy to talk a good game but delivering on it is something else. Let's see.
 
Sir Jim is like J.D. in Scrubs.

Spent years pining after Elliot, only to then realise that he doesn't want here when he finally gets her. He's not ready.

Now he has control and is like "shit... I have to actually to do something!" :D
 
Fallon d'Floor said:
Sir Jim is like J.D. in Scrubs.

Spent years pining after Elliot, only to then realise that he doesn't want here when he finally gets her. He's not ready.

Now he has control and is like "shit... I have to actually to do something!" :D
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Except he’s doing a lot?
 
Berbasbullet said:
Except he’s doing a lot?
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Not when it comes to most important decision of them all. The manager.

It's all well and good hiring best in class , but that process is dragging on due to him basically placing all of his trust in Ashworth.

I think INEOS should have had alternatives in place. They probably assumed that Newcastle wouldn't have been as bitter about this as they have been.

It could cost the club valuable time. A new manager and transfer targets all need to be decided soon. We'll just have to hope that Wilcox can do a good job in the short term.
 
Fallon d'Floor said:
Not when it comes to most important decision of them all. The manager.

It's all well and good hiring best in class , but that process is dragging on due to him basically placing all of his trust in Ashworth.

I think INEOS should have had alternatives in place. They probably assumed that Newcastle wouldn't have been as bitter about this as they have been.

It could cost the club valuable time. A new manager and transfer targets all need to be decided soon. We'll just have to hope that Wilcox can do a good job in the short term.
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Cost the club valuable time - what valuable time? If they believe hiring Berrada, Wilcox, Ashworth for those roles is the best decision for us, then you just gotta wait it out. It's nothing but patience. The clubs not going to get relegated or implode. It's just some fans who demand instant changes and success who don't understand that it's not the end of the world if the rebuild takes a bit longer. Ineos I'm sure would have loved to have gotten in earlier. I'm sure they would have loved for this process to have been completed early last year, and not late February of this year. They only took over 2 months ago, which means that everything was delayed massively, not because of them. So yes, the first thing to do logically is change the structure. Most of the guys aren't starting their jobs yet. It is what it is. Waiting it out rather than rushing into a/b/c/d because some fans are impatient is absolutely the correct thing to do.
 
Fallon d'Floor said:
Not when it comes to most important decision of them all. The manager.

It's all well and good hiring best in class , but that process is dragging on due to him basically placing all of his trust in Ashworth.

I think INEOS should have had alternatives in place. They probably assumed that Newcastle wouldn't have been as bitter about this as they have been.

It could cost the club valuable time. A new manager and transfer targets all need to be decided soon. We'll just have to hope that Wilcox can do a good job in the short term.
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There isn't really a point in making changes right now, is there? Maybe the FA Cup final, but that's it. They are surely making decisions behind the scenes that we don't know about yet. Wilcox has just joined as the first new football executive, it ain't unreasonable to give the structure time to settle in before making big changes. Making the wrong decision now would arguably be a lot more damaging than giving EtH out the season.
 
Fallon d'Floor said:
Not when it comes to most important decision of them all. The manager.

It's all well and good hiring best in class , but that process is dragging on due to him basically placing all of his trust in Ashworth.

I think INEOS should have had alternatives in place. They probably assumed that Newcastle wouldn't have been as bitter about this as they have been.

It could cost the club valuable time. A new manager and transfer targets all need to be decided soon. We'll just have to hope that Wilcox can do a good job in the short term.
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Very odd take. He's decided that he's going to hire the best in class TO make decisions like the manager.

I mean he's a very successful business man but he's not an expert in football or football dealings.
He hires the best in class, like you said, then they look at potential manager options.

Sir Jim has already said walk not run and I fully agree with this. If it takes us four or five seasons to consistently be pushing for titles again, then so be it. It's far better than what we have now, which is making snap decisions without a long term goal.

Be patient. If INEOS turn out to be garbage, then it doesn't matter if its one season or ten anyway.
 
Skills said:
I think they're like the Glazers. Weak.

We needed an authoritarian in the mould of an Abramovic or Florentino Perez.
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This is obviously nonsense. The Glazers didn't care about making decisions to help the club, they just felt they can make it work with just their buddies in big roles.

Ineos have come in, hired an actual technical director, hired an actual director of football, and hired Berrada as CEO from City. At that point, they now place the trust and responsibility in those guys and the main portion of the job for Ineos is actually done, in terms of personnel changes. Now it's on the new guys, whenever they come in to which is how any successful company works. When higher ups start trying to play the part of positions they know feck all about, that's when any big company goes to shit, and that's what happened here. Let the experts handle what they are good at.
 
bosnian_red said:
Cost the club valuable time - what valuable time? If they believe hiring Berrada, Wilcox, Ashworth for those roles is the best decision for us, then you just gotta wait it out. It's nothing but patience. The clubs not going to get relegated or implode. It's just some fans who demand instant changes and success who don't understand that it's not the end of the world if the rebuild takes a bit longer. Ineos I'm sure would have loved to have gotten in earlier. I'm sure they would have loved for this process to have been completed early last year, and not late February of this year. They only took over 2 months ago, which means that everything was delayed massively, not because of them. So yes, the first thing to do logically is change the structure. Most of the guys aren't starting their jobs yet. It is what it is. Waiting it out rather than rushing into a/b/c/d because some fans are impatient is absolutely the correct thing to do.
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INEOS are under pressure to deliver. If they drag their feet over decisions like hiring a new manager, that will cost them and the club.

They only took over 2 months ago, but have known they were getting control for months. They didn't wait until they got the keys to start making decisions. That would be amateur hour.

You'd have to hope that Ashworth and others are in regular contact from the shadows. Not waiting to "officially"start. Corporate espionage.

If INEOS sack ten Hag before June, I'll have more confidence in them. I think they'll wait until a week after The FA Cup. They'll want to avoid a LvG sitaution. Rumours on the day of the final.
 
Poor start. Dithering Glazers style on what to do with Ten Hag.
 
Every passing day that they leave this manager in place despite another chaotic performance, and result I'm losing more and more faith.
 
Hope they are working on a lot of things simultaneously behind the scenes.

1) Need to get Ashworth officially on board
2) Need to get a new manager and establish a style of play
3) Need to identify and negotiate players signings earlier before transfer window start
4) Need to appoint a Head of Recruitment?
5) Need to revamp our fitness and medical department?

Otherwise next season will be a difficult and long season again
 
Fallon d'Floor said:
Not when it comes to most important decision of them all. The manager.

It's all well and good hiring best in class , but that process is dragging on due to him basically placing all of his trust in Ashworth.

I think INEOS should have had alternatives in place. They probably assumed that Newcastle wouldn't have been as bitter about this as they have been.

It could cost the club valuable time. A new manager and transfer targets all need to be decided soon. We'll just have to hope that Wilcox can do a good job in the short term.
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He’ll be gone at the end Of the season . There’s a lot happening in the background with sorting out staff with previous clubs dragging their heels etc
 
Remember the geese said:
He'll be gone at the end of the season. They were never sacking him mid season.
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I think that sometimes results and performances become so desperately poor that sacking a a manager mid season is completely necessary to maintain standards. Just my personal opinion.
 
You can never be confident of success, as we've seen this season in the FA Cup ETH has fluked getting fixtures against mostly non Premier league teams this season.

I am confident with Wilcox and Ashworth and a proper structure coming in, that some standards will again be instilled at the club.

I think ten Hag's already gone by mutual consent, I don't think INEOS wanted their first big act to be sacking the manager. His contract is up the end of next season and there is zero talk about a renewal. The silence is deafening.
 
I think the way it's going with the new backroom changes , means ETH is going to get the bullet, and there going to get there man in.

I just hope it's not Southgate. But something tells me they will go for guy like him.. I'd rather have a guy who gives some crap back to the media with some aggressive attitude. ETH is gone after the FA cup..
 
They'll sack him after the cup final and bring in Tunchel. Seems the most obvious thing on earth.
 
Shark said:
I think that sometimes results and performances become so desperately poor that sacking a a manager mid season is completely necessary to maintain standards. Just my personal opinion.
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I agree. However, that wasn't going to happen this season due to the ownership situation dragging on and then making sure we have the right people in place before commiting to a decision. It's unlikely that we would have been able to appoint the manager of our choice until the summer anyway. I doubt they would have wanted the extra upheaval of bringing in an interim for a couple of months either.
 
Im glad the footballing side takeover happened mid season. Now they have all the data to work with and problems to solve. If it happened near the end of season then there wont be alot of change. They will need more time to analyze.
 
Always thought Ineos would take 5 years to show significant improvement, maybe 2 years to show signs of getting there.

There's a lot to fix, mainly around training and recruitment and I don't think some realize how long it did take other clubs to get up there. Sure a manager can impress in a few months but we often see them return back like at Spurs or Chelsea. To get in the top 1-3 and deep in the CL each year will take a lot of work to get the flow of players right that are priced well and fit a profile.

Despite all the talk of getting the signings right under Murtough 2 years ago, it's been another horror story of extremely poor value and mega money spent.
 
Fallon d'Floor said:
Not when it comes to most important decision of them all. The manager.

It's all well and good hiring best in class , but that process is dragging on due to him basically placing all of his trust in Ashworth.

I think INEOS should have had alternatives in place. They probably assumed that Newcastle wouldn't have been as bitter about this as they have been.

It could cost the club valuable time. A new manager and transfer targets all need to be decided soon. We'll just have to hope that Wilcox can do a good job in the short term.
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Getting the stadium change moving/implementing a proper football structure > manager.

Imagine INEOS hiring a dud and then we are stuck with them and the very people whose job it is to deal with that haven’t had a say. Could set us back years.

We need to be patient here, they’re making some great moves already.
 
Dan_F said:
The season has long gone. It has no benefit to sack him now and rush into hiring someone else.
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Yes and no. Sacking him now is pointless. Looking for a replacement is essential. I hope this is taking place behind the scenes, because other clubs are getting their ducks in a row, and we will find ourselves with an ever decreasing pool of candidates.

Unlesss, that is, INEOS is waiting for Southgate.
 
Berbasbullet said:
Getting the stadium change moving/implementing a proper football structure > manager.

Imagine INEOS hiring a dud and then we are stuck with them and the very people whose job it is to deal with that haven’t had a say. Could set us back years.

We need to be patient here, they’re making some great moves already.
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Whats with this mindset that if we hire the wrong manager we're stuck with them and it'll set us back years? That's exactly what we're moving away from
 
AndySmith1990 said:
Whats with this mindset that if we hire the wrong manager we're stuck with them and it'll set us back years? That's exactly what we're moving away from
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Because we’re hiring a bunch of people to set a way of us playing and then we hire a manager who doesn’t match that. Surely it makes sense to get the people to set the template of what we want and then replace the manager (which is a costly thing to do).

Firing managers costs a lot.
 
Chairman Steve said:
They need to be more ruthless and proactive with managers. I don’t like this system under the Glazers where we give them performance clauses based on Champions League qualification or something and then seemingly chain ourselves to them. God knows how many seasons could have been turned around if someone with balls just sacked the manager at the time and got a new one. We wait far, far too long to do anything.

Can you imagine Real Madrid tolerating the risk of not making Champions League football? They’d sack the manager and hire a new one in the blink of an eye to try turn things around. We just seem to sit there and accept our fate.

Fans need to get the Ferguson comparisons out of their heads. He was a pretty hotshot manager before he even stepped foot in Old Trafford. He was not some average joe manager who magically blossomed into the GOAT manager just because United persisted with him.
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Well that wasn't the case with Jose or Solskjaer but yeah we did wait too long to sack Moyes, probably Van Gaal, definitely Jose and Ole and we seem to be taking the piss with Ten Hag. Who's done enough this season to seem him sacked 3-4 times over it's been so bad.
 
It’s nuts to me that anyone can think Ineos are behaving weak or dithering. They’ve literally been in about 4 months and in that time booted out non footballing people and are hiring truly best in class talent in decision making roles.

it seems this all stems from not firing ETH but to me, that’s great leadership. Get the people in place that can identify the RIGHT replacement, not make knee jerk decisions based on a season that was over before they arrived. There’s absolutely no point sacking ETH for one game. Even prime Ferguson wouldn’t make us anything other than solid underdogs for that game. We’re very lucky to even be there in the first place!

Let the new structure get together and work on the direction at the club with football first. Then we’ll see improvements.
 
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