Are United done after De Gea, Jones and Young?

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Last season there was a dramatic drop. What saved us is we had Giggs.
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Nah, what "saved" us what that we had a great squad of players.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
No one believes SAF will buy for the sake of it. We just believe he will strengthen his midfield. We can't see him losing 3 midfielders and not bring in at least 1 new face.
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If he can get a player that will strengthen us, he will. Agree. Problem being, not many will strengthen us, and even fewer of those are obtainable.

One of those three midfielders hasn't played for 2-3 years. The other two were bit-part players. Not very dramatic departures. We still have plenty of numbers to take from in midfield.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Young has never been a central midfielder. I'm certain it wasn't him.
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Fecked if I know who you/Sir Alex is referring to, if anyone.
 
Using the trophies we've won in the past 5 yrs to justify our CM is incorrect. We're talking about half a decade which is quite a long time in football. 5 yrs ago Scholes was at his peak. Having such maestro dictating the game helps a lot and such talent blessed us for at least 3 more years with Scholes's form declining slowly 2 seasons ago to then dip significantly last season.

However saying that our midfield is shite is incorrect. Scholes couldn't do the job all by himself so let's give some praise to Carrick, Anderson and Fletch whom in the past 5 yrs had some brilliant moments of their own. What we need is someone who replaces Scholes. Its a massive job which may require a big name signing but I have this feeling that if we find that then everything in midfield will slot in nicely.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
It matters. Becasue age could suddenly catch up with him like it did Scholes last season, leaving us screwed. I don't believe SAF will take such a risk. I can't' see us not adding an attack minded midfielder. Especially when SAF admitted there is one he wanted in January that he couldn't get then.
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Spot on.

Last season United were too reliant on Scholes and Giggs, and were lucky that Giggs stayed injury free to the end of the season, because the key games upoon which the season turned - being Chelsea over two legs in the CL (and arguably) Chelsea at home in the league he was top drawer - arguably matchwinning performances.

The question is whether Carrick, Fletcher or Anderson could have done that? I see nothing in any of them so far that suggests they can, although Anderson certainly has plenty of potential if he can get a good run in the side.

Carrick and Fletcher are very good players, but neither has done anything to suggest they are capable of providing what we lack - that is an attacking pivot who can take hold of a game and dictate tempo.

Last season's achievement (for me at least) was even more special because of the fact that we weren't as strong as we have been, but make no mistake - the rest of the top four will spend big to bridge the gap. Last season Chelsea were close despite being largely awful throughout the middle of the season, Arsenal dropped a lot of points (as they usually do) and City - had they been a bit more adventurous rather than simply want to finish top four would have gone even closer still.

Anyone who watched United play last season, especially in away games can see that we lack real quality in midfield. Yes we won the league but like it or not, a lot of performaces were at best poor. Fergie will have seen it and I have no doubt he realise that there are issues to be addressed. You strengthen on the back of success - its always how its been done at United, and I have no doubt it'll happen again.
 
We can't compete in the transfer market with the likes of Real, Chelsea, City et al.... Which is why we're better off buying younger players and grooming them into first teamers. Basically don't even bother even fantasising about Modric, Sneijder and co.

Sorry
 
People seem to be arguing whether the players are or are not good enough, but everyone seems to be forgetting that there are FOUR of them including a 37 year old.

Never mind the quality of the players, we haven't fecking got enough of them in the first place.
 
this Modric, Sneijer and Nasri rumours don't seem to be moving on for us, i guess its very difficult for us to sign them we have to look for other alternatives.
 
cina said:
People seem to be arguing whether the players are or are not good enough, but everyone seems to be forgetting that there are FOUR of them including a 37 year old.

Never mind the quality of the players, we haven't fecking got enough of them in the first place.
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Only four quality players to compete in central midfield. Oh no!!

And yes I know you're actually right, it's just a marker of how the game has changed, and not in a good way.
 
Anderson showed enough promise last season - his season was, again, unluckily hampered by injury.

His conditioning will be good from the first minute of this season, thanks to a full summer break, and that will make a big difference to him. You often hear players say that without the pre season, they're playing catch up for the entire season.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Giggs and Cleverly would be enough as cover if we were sure Anderson was set to make the leap in development Nani made last year. But that isnt a given. At the very least we need any insurance policy in case that back fires.
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I don't want us to keep relying on a 37-year old Giggs to bail us out of trouble to make up for the midfield problem...its just ridiculous... we simply have to buy someone that can control the game for us and keep the ball better.
 
Kelvin said:
I don't want us to keep relying on a 37-year old Giggs to bail us out of trouble to make up for the midfield problem...its just ridiculous... we simply have to buy someone that can control the game for us and keep the ball better.
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I agree 100%.

Let's hope Fergie agrees too.
 
Kelvin said:
this Modric, Sneijer and Nasri rumours don't seem to be moving on for us, i guess its very difficult for us to sign them we have to look for other alternatives.
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In order of preference, which players are the alternatives in your view?
 
I think it is definitely a case of the herd thinning on our options when it comes to buying a new CM, I doubt for a second that Fergie wouldn't buy one this summer if he can actually get one he wants.

Modric - Will only go for the kind of silly money City and Chelsea pay.
Sneijder - We most likely wont pay his wages.
Nasri - Wenger wont sell to us.

Thiago has signed a new deal and Rodwell would be merely developing here. So it doesn't leave that many options. I'm in full agreement with Ekeke when it comes to Banega but he seems very unlikely and I don't see us paying Javi Martinez' release fee.

Who does that leave? Defour? Vidal?
 
I'd think we are pretty decent in the CM department.

-M. Carrick,
-D.Fletcher
-Anderson
-R.Giggs (fewer, selected games)
- R. Tunnicliffe (League Cup games)
- Morrison (League Cup games).

I remember we used to have like only 3 excellent CM such as Keane, Scholes, Butty (as reserve) with Philly Neville used occassionally as special task operations. Backups were the likes of Jonathan Greening, Ronnie Wallwork
 
Laphroaig said:
Carrick wouldn't get into Chelsea and Arsenal's sides? Madness. Arsenal's consists of Fabregas, an extremely promising teenager and Song. Chelsea's consists of three out of Lampard, Essien (who hasn't been all that for a good while) and Ramires and Mikel...
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It's no secret that Wenger has long been a fan of Carrick. Carrick's game revolves around one or two touch passing with excellent vision and technique. He'd be suited to Arsenal's style and would now be an "experienced" head they so desperately need.
 
Longlivekeano said:
I'd think we are pretty decent in the CM department.

-M. Carrick,
-D.Fletcher
-Anderson
-R.Giggs (fewer, selected games)
- R. Tunnicliffe (League Cup games)
- Morrison (League Cup games).

I remember we used to have like only 3 excellent CM such as Keane, Scholes, Butty (as reserve) with Philly Neville used occassionally as special task operations. Backups were the likes of Jonathan Greening, Ronnie Wallwork
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Exactly. Numbers wise we are okay, though one more signing would be nice to just sure up the numbers in midfield. The problem is the expectation that our squad should match that of City, Chelsea or Real Madrid. We have never had large squads of "Galacticos" with Fergie prefering to work with a small core of players. Ferguson is also big on proper management techniques and buys players as to meet certain team dynamics. Leaders, followers, workers etc

We never ever have players whinging to the media that they aren't getting enough games and those who have tried have been quickly sold or reprimanded in such a way they don't do it again.

Like cnut I also hate this belief here that the only way to improve is to buy players. There's many other ways to improve a team that doesn't involve the writing of cheques.

There's also the fact that we just can't simply afford a large squad and the wage demands that come with it. We are hundreds of millions of dollars in the red and we are not bankrolled by a billionaire.

I laughed when I read the threads on here about "complete squad overhauls" earlier in the summer. It's just not the way we have done things, ever. We bring in two to three players at a time.
 
Spoony Youngblood said:
We can't compete in the transfer market with the likes of Real, Chelsea, City et al.... Which is why we're better off buying younger players and grooming them into first teamers. Basically don't even bother even fantasising about Modric, Sneijder and co.
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There's something so much more satisfying about polishing your own rough diamonds and producing another title winning team.
 
It is getting harder and harder to buy promising players as well these days. Prices may be lower than they are for top end players but they are silly anyway and I suppose you are also taking a bigger risk. My feeling is that SAF thinks we need another CM unless our sounding out of Nasri, Modric and Sneijder is all unfounded tabloid bollocks - which I doubt.
 
Midfield was the second position that needed most strengthening (After gk). I doubt that SAF has given a higher priority to the flanks and defense (which were already very strong) then CM.
 
Kelvin said:
this Modric, Sneijer and Nasri rumours don't seem to be moving on for us, i guess its very difficult for us to sign them we have to look for other alternatives.
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Its early in the window and deals for big players take time to resolve with various agents and things like image rights to deal with. Things dont usually kick off unitl after July 1st when players starte getting back from holiday.

United may not get a big name, indeed Fergie may have his eyes on other targets he think can do the job - but I think its a little early to suggest things aren't moving on - The club could after all be in negotiations with any number of players behind the scenes.
 
This time last year the big clamour was for central midfielders. We didn't get one, and we went on to have a very successful season. I see no reason why the same thing cannot happen again.

As has been said numerous times in this thread, the majority seem to think that it is inevitable that we bring a midfielder in. I think its far from inevitable. The number of realistic targets are very small, and we're in competition with some very big spenders.

Unless the club pull another Hernandez out of the air (and I certainly wouldn't put it past them to do so), its going to be very difficult to land any of the players being discussed on here.
 
Bilbo said:
This time last year the big clamour was for central midfielders. We didn't get one, and we went on to have a very successful season. I see no reason why the same thing cannot happen again.

As has been said numerous times in this thread, the majority seem to think that it is inevitable that we bring a midfielder in. I think its far from inevitable. The number of realistic targets are very small, and we're in competition with some very big spenders.

Unless the club pull another Hernandez out of the air (and I certainly wouldn't put it past them to do so), its going to be very difficult to land any of the players being discussed on here.
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Our CM was weak last season and will get weaker next year with Scholes retirement, Hargreaves leaving the club and Giggs growing older. Im not saying that our CM is shite. However a stronger CM may allow us to withstand Barcelona for more then the usual 10 minutes. If United can spend money on a 4/5th choice center back and a 4th choice winger then I guess it can also find space for a quality playmaker.
 
I don't think the pool of quality central midfielders is anything like as small as people are implying. We've been linked with M'Villa today, who I'd never heard of until kouroux started raving about him last season (and he knows his onions) There's bound to be dozens more where he came from. This Sjneider/Modric obsession is based on the assumption we need to immediately replace Scholes at his prime. I don't think we do. We just need a quality, well-rounded young central midfielder with the potential to become top class at a club like United. Someone like M'Villa, Defour or the loads of other, similar, players out there I've never heard of.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
By all accounts he's more than just a destroyer.

If jones is going to be used in midfield, I could see us sticking with Cleverley, Jones and A.N.Other as the replacements for Gibson, Scholes and Hargreaves.
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In that case I'd expect A.N. Other to be a top player with experience as Fergie has said in the past that he'd probably need to go down that route to galvanise the younger ones coming through.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I don't think the pool of quality central midfielders is anything like as small as people are implying. We've been linked with M'Villa today, who I'd never heard of until kouroux started raving about him last season (and he knows his onions) There's bound to be dozens more where he came from. This Sjneider/Modric obsession is based on the assumption we need to immediately replace Scholes at his prime. I don't think we do. We just need a quality, well-rounded young central midfielder with the potential to become top class at a club like United. Someone like M'Villa, Defour or the loads of other, similar, players out there I've never heard of.
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I've been saying since the start of the window that getting both of those would be great, seeing as combined they'd still cost less than Modric or Sneijder and would fit into the team far better than the latter.

If we were to only get one though it'd have to be M'Vila I think.
 
devilish said:
Our CM was weak last season and will get weaker next year with Scholes retirement, Hargreaves leaving the club and Giggs growing older. Im not saying that our CM is shite. However a stronger CM may allow us to withstand Barcelona for more then the usual 10 minutes. If United can spend money on a 4/5th choice center back and a 4th choice winger then I guess it can also find space for a quality playmaker.
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I just fundamentally disagree with this notion that our central midfield is that bad. As I've posted before, we've had better midfields in the last ten years and we'll have better in the next ten, but we've also had worse.

It seems clear that we are looking for another option in there, and we should be, but is Nasri or Modric going to elevate us into Barcelona class? No, it won't, and we should really be looking at our domestic rivals first and foremost. I think our squad compares favourably against all of them.
 
Press conference today.May get a hint if the cheque book remains open or job done.
 
Bilbo said:
I just fundamentally disagree with this notion that our central midfield is that bad. As I've posted before, we've had better midfields in the last ten years and we'll have better in the next ten, but we've also had worse.

It seems clear that we are looking for another option in there, and we should be, but is Nasri or Modric going to elevate us into Barcelona class? No, it won't, and we should really be looking at our domestic rivals first and foremost. I think our squad compares favourably against all of them.
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Our CM is neither shite nor good. I think that its pretty average (big club's speaking). We've got midfielders whom while they can hold the line pretty well they need someone special around them to make everything gel together bringing that much needed class in it. 3 yrs ago we had Scholes at his prime and guess what? We kept the second coming of the Christ at bay and ended up winning the CL. Now we need someone else.

I doubt that we will ever have a central midfield strong enough to be able to compete with Barcelona's. However do we need that? We were never the type of team who relied heavily from CM. In fact much of our creativity comes from the flanks or by our forward line. What we need is a good midfield who doesn't constantly give the ball away whenever its under some real pressure. We lack of that maestro who can move the ball to the right channels even under pressure etc.

In my opinion this central midfield is weaker then the Double Double team, the treble and the 3rd CL win team. Its stronger only to the one in which we features Smith, Djemba and Kleberson in it.
 
Bilbo said:
I just fundamentally disagree with this notion that our central midfield is that bad. As I've posted before, we've had better midfields in the last ten years and we'll have better in the next ten, but we've also had worse.

It seems clear that we are looking for another option in there, and we should be, but is Nasri or Modric going to elevate us into Barcelona class? No, it won't, and we should really be looking at our domestic rivals first and foremost. I think our squad compares favourably against all of them.
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90 points in 2009, 85 points in 2010, 80 points in 2011. During this period our problems in central midfield have become more and more obvious, up to last season when we more often than not just crumbled whenever an opponent had the guts to come out and press our midfield. That had a lot to do with playing Scholes in a two-man midfield or playing Gibson at all, I admit but still, it was a glaring weakness that cost us points.

It will cost points again if we don't address the issues. We cannot assume the rivals will just stagnate, we have to stay ahead of them. Forget Barcelona, we need to strengthen the midfield to maintain our grip on the league.
 
I love Fergie's summer Press Conferences, he always seems more relaxed and doesn't mind talking transfers.
 
Devil may care said:
I think it is definitely a case of the herd thinning on our options when it comes to buying a new CM, I doubt for a second that Fergie wouldn't buy one this summer if he can actually get one he wants.

Modric - Will only go for the kind of silly money City and Chelsea pay.
Sneijder - We most likely wont pay his wages.
Nasri - Wenger wont sell to us.

Thiago has signed a new deal and Rodwell would be merely developing here. So it doesn't leave that many options. I'm in full agreement with Ekeke when it comes to Banega but he seems very unlikely and I don't see us paying Javi Martinez' release fee.

Who does that leave? Defour? Vidal?
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If those players aren't availabe its down to the club and its no doubt well funded scouting network to go out and find alternatives.

United probably need a player of this type to build on last season, and arguably to compete with what might be vastly improved rivals in the PL. As one of the richest clubs in the world if that means breaking the bank to do it then they should be able to do so.

If they dont then there is nobody else to blame if next season sees the club slipping behind City or Chelsea - falling back on the "no value in the market" bollocks won't change a thing, and will irritate fans who have seen significant sums spent on positions where we were already strong.

For that reason I dont see United being scared off by inflated prices - not all of the top players can move to City or Chelsea even if they offer vast sums, and United have huge pulling power to any potential signing.

Tp put it simply its clear United need at least one central midfield player - Fergie isn't going to spend the money he has on Jones and Young if it would leave them unable to compete for preferred midfield targets.
 
Siorac said:
90 points in 2009, 85 points in 2010, 80 points in 2011. During this period our problems in central midfield have become more and more obvious, up to last season when we more often than not just crumbled whenever an opponent had the guts to come out and press our midfield. That had a lot to do with playing Scholes in a two-man midfield or playing Gibson at all, I admit but still, it was a glaring weakness that cost us points.

It will cost points again if we don't address the issues. We cannot assume the rivals will just stagnate, we have to stay ahead of them. Forget Barcelona, we need to strengthen the midfield to maintain our grip on the league.
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Good post.

People seem to rely on the fact that we won the league last year, even though that points total is the lowest winning total for ages.
 
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