Are United done after De Gea, Jones and Young?

The Hairdryer said:
I have said it muliple threads that we need another midfielder and Fergie will sign one given the right circumstances.

I just detest this "movement" among fans who believe our midfield is poor and not good enough. One bellend even said it's the 14th best in Europe. This is just nonsense. Our midfield is the best in England and among the top side in world, excluding Barcalona who are just so far ahead in the midfield department at the moment they would be impossible to catch.
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Come on now, you usually don't take nonsense but that's complete bullshit.
 
The Hairdryer said:
I have said it muliple threads that we need another midfielder and Fergie will sign one given the right circumstances.

I just detest this "movement" among fans who believe our midfield is poor and not good enough. One bellend even said it's the 14th best in Europe. This is just nonsense. Our midfield is the best in England and among the top side in world, excluding Barcalona who are just so far ahead in the midfield department at the moment they would be impossible to catch.
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No it isn't, quite clearly it isn't.

Why do some fans chose to act like this, do you think it makes you a 'better fan' or a 'top red'.

If you cannot see that our midfield clearly needs to be addressed then you really have got some super-thick-red-tinted-specs.
 
Sharky7 said:
That's the day (and there were many last year that had me close), that I finally gave up on the Fletcher/Carrick midfield combo, as a 2 they are just not good enough against the best. Both can offer a LOT, but not together in a 2.
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Indeed.

I've said this before time and again, particularly about Carrick who simply wants to long on the ball at times - against the bigger sides you need a bit more urgency.

Some on here seem to think its unfair making this sort of comment on the likes of Carrick and Fletcher but I dont agree - its not meant as an out and out criticism, just a simple fact - both are very good players who as a fan, I respect greatly for their qualities, but neither is the answer to the midfield problem as last season proved.
 
Robbie Boy said:
No it isn't, quite clearly it isn't.

Why do some fans chose to act like this, do you think it makes you a 'better fan' or a 'top red'.

If you cannot see that our midfield clearly needs to be addressed then you really have got some super-thick-red-tinted-specs.
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But it's true! You don't do as well as we do, without having a very good centre midfield!

Hell it's probably the most important part of the pitch! We may not have the big names, and sometimes perhaps it does let us down,but at other times, Carrick, Anderson and Fletcher can be awesome!

It's quite simply not true that our CM is a massive weakness. Is it somewhere which could be upgraded? For sure.

I don't know if our transfer dealings are done. Realistically no-one has a clue one way or the other. I don't really care either.
 
Twigginater said:
But it's true! You don't do as well as we do, without having a very good centre midfield!

Hell it's probably the most important part of the pitch! We may not have the big names, and sometimes perhaps it does let us down,but at other times, Carrick, Anderson and Fletcher can be awesome!

It's quite simply not true that our CM is a massive weakness. Is it somewhere which could be upgraded? For sure.

I don't know if our transfer dealings are done. Realistically no-one has a clue one way or the other. I don't really care either.
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Yes it is.
 
cina said:
Yes it is.
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NO team with a massive weakness would win the PL and get to the CL final in these days. It's simply not doable. If we've got a massive weakness so have:

Arsenal,
Chelsea,
City,
Liverpool,
Tottenham,
Inter,
AC,
Bayern,
Shalke,
Valencia,
etc etc etc etc.
 
Twigginater said:
But it's true! You don't do as well as we do, without having a very good centre midfield!

Hell it's probably the most important part of the pitch! We may not have the big names, and sometimes perhaps it does let us down,but at other times, Carrick, Anderson and Fletcher can be awesome!

It's quite simply not true that our CM is a massive weakness. Is it somewhere which could be upgraded? For sure.

I don't know if our transfer dealings are done. Realistically no-one has a clue one way or the other. I don't really care either.
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Why aren't Carrick and Fletcher big names if they have been dominating England and Europe for 5 years?
 
Twigginater said:
NO team with a massive weakness would win the PL and get to the CL final in these days. It's simply not doable. If we've got a massive weakness so have:

Arsenal,
Chelsea,
City,
Liverpool,
Tottenham,
Inter,
AC,
Bayern,
Shalke,
Valencia,
etc etc etc etc.
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As has been pointed out many a time, our defense and attack are what gets us so far in these competitions. Our midfield does not, and has cost us a lot of points at times. it is absolutely nowhere near our defense or attack in terms of quality, it's miles behind, wouldn't even be classed as in the top 5 in Europe. You're fecking deluded.

Just because those teams didn't make it to the final means we've a better midfield than them? Nothing to do with the fact that we've a much better defense than them all, and a better attack than most of them?

"Our midfield is perfectly ok, look at me, I'm a top red cause I don't think we've got any weaknesses in the squad and we're great as we are"

Our midfield could consistent of O Shea and Gibson and you'd probably argue it was world class.
 
Twigginater said:
NO team with a massive weakness would win the PL and get to the CL final in these days. It's simply not doable. If we've got a massive weakness so have:

Arsenal,
Chelsea,
City,
Liverpool,
Tottenham,
Inter,
AC,
Bayern,
Shalke,
Valencia,
etc etc etc etc.
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I could pick a midfield player from most of those clubs who would walk into United's central midfield - two in some cases. In any event - United should have a midfield better than mot of those sides year on year if they want to compete with the Barca's and Real Madrid's of the world.

United won the league last year despite their shortcomings in midfield - due to strengths in other areas of the team and fergie's tactical njouse and motivational skills.

You're entitled to your opinion but how anyone can look at the perfromaces last year, especially away from home, and deny that there is a gulf in class between central midfield and other areas of the side is utterly beyond me.
 
Funny how the signing of Michael Carrick and the rise of Darren Fletcher also coincided with our most succesful period in history. As i've said repeatedly you just don't win things without a strong midfield. It's impossible. Our midfield is one of the best in the world and the record speaks for itself. It's not rose-tinted anything, just simply a fact.

As i've also said repeatedly we could do with another quality midfielder but this pretending our midfield is shit in the vain hope that the management of the club will somehow agree with you and go on shopping frenzy like a well-to-do teenage girl with daddy's credit card is just beyond realistic. Fergie knows we have a highly capable and strong midfield hence the lack of transfer activity in that area.
 
RedRover said:
I could pick a midfield player from most of those clubs who would walk into United's central midfield - two in some cases.
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Just like Carrick and Fletcher could walk into any of those sides and be constant first team starters. Works both ways champ, only we Fletcher and Carrick have a PROVEN track record with our club.
 
The Hairdryer said:
Funny how the signing of Michael Carrick and the rise of Darren Fletcher also coincided with our most succesful period in history. As i've said repeatedly you just don't win things without a strong midfield. It's impossible. Our midfield is one of the best in the world and the record speaks for itself. It's not rose-tinted anything, just simply a fact.

As i've also said repeatedly we could do with another quality midfielder but this pretending our midfield is shit in the vain hope that the management of the club will somehow agree with you and go on shopping frenzy like a well-to-do teenage girl with daddy's credit card is just beyond realistic. Fergie knows we have a highly capable and strong midfield hence the lack of transfer activity in that area.
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I think there were far more significant things than that that contributed to the most successful period in our history.

Answer this, is the midfield as strong as it was from 07 to 09? The best period we've had in the last 10 years.
 
The Hairdryer said:
Funny how the signing of Michael Carrick and the rise of Darren Fletcher also coincided with our most succesful period in history. As i've said repeatedly you just don't win things without a strong midfield. It's impossible. Our midfield is one of the best in the world and the record speaks for itself. It's not rose-tinted anything, just simply a fact.

As i've also said repeatedly we could do with another quality midfielder but this pretending our midfield is shit in the vain hope that the management of the club will somehow agree with you and go on shopping frenzy like a well-to-do teenage girl with daddy's credit card is just beyond realistic. Fergie knows we have a highly capable and strong midfield hence the lack of transfer activity in that area.
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Funny that period coincided with Rio, Vidic, VDS becominf a world class unit, Scholes getting back in form, Rooney and Saha performing up top, and a hitherto one trick pony on the right ripping every defense in the country open.

Ffs.
 
You still don't win things with a poor midfield despite how good you are in other areas.
 
The Hairdryer said:
Just like Carrick and Fletcher could walk into any of those sides and be constant first team starters. Works both ways champ, only we Fletcher and Carrick have a PROVEN track record with our club.
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They wouldnt get in the first choice Arsenal or Chelsea sides. Or Inter, or Bayern Munich, City and arguably Spurs (maybe Flecther alongside Modric) although I personally dont think he's that much better than Huddlestone as a holding player (and the young Brazilian kid also looks tidy so far).

Fletcher I really like - good engine and hard worker and has improved dramitcally before his illness kept him out last year. The fact is however he's a limited footballer - especially in terms of his passing and technical ability.

Carrick has only proved one thing consistently - that in the big games over his United career he has often been found wanting.

Its a pointless discussion to have as you're obviously convinced that they are top players and the fact that we've been succesful fules the self fulfilling prophecy.

Your are of course entitled to your opinion and I presume you're therefore convinced that Fergie wont be spending any cash on a new midfield player to take a first team place for the first game of the season?
 
Carrick wouldn't get into Chelsea and Arsenal's sides? Madness. Arsenal's consists of Fabregas, an extremely promising teenager and Song. Chelsea's consists of three out of Lampard, Essien (who hasn't been all that for a good while) and Ramires and Mikel...
 
It comes down to this. There is definitely a need for another player in central midfield but if Fergie can't find exactly what he wants in this department, i'd be fine with him not buying anybody. I'm confident we have enough in midfield with Carrick, Fletcher, Anderson and Giggs with Park, Cleverley and Jones as backup to start favourites for the title.

We won't be favourites for the Champions League but I don't think any one midfielder would solve that anyway.
 
adexkola said:
Funny that period coincided with Rio, Vidic, VDS becominf a world class unit, Scholes getting back in form, Rooney and Saha performing up top, and a hitherto one trick pony on the right ripping every defense in the country open.

Ffs.
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And how did, Scholes, Saha and Ronnie help us to the Prem last year? Or the CL final?

Fletcher and Carrick are great great players. They're integral parts of our team in our most successful spell ever.

You can have all the great forwards and defenders you want, if you have a CM pairing which is apparently equivalent to Spurs and worse than any other top club.
 
kietotheworld said:
Why aren't Carrick and Fletcher big names if they have been dominating England and Europe for 5 years?
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Because they don't score enough goals. No other reason.

A 12-15 goal season from either of those two would elevate them up the rankings significantly. It doesn't make a huge different to United though, as we don't rely on goals from that area. Not to say that 12 goals from a midfielder wouldn't be a very welcome addition though, but I think Ferguson views our midfield as a base to provide rather than an end product in itself.
 
The Hairdryer said:
You still don't win things with a poor midfield despite how good you are in other areas.
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This is correct. We've had better midfields in the last ten years, and we'll have better in the next ten years, but you don't win PL titles and reach CL finals consistently with fodder in the middle of the pitch.

Saying we need strengthening is fair enough. I think some people (and I'm in that camp) take issue with this viewpoint that these players are worse than they actually are.
 
Bilbo said:
Because they don't score enough goals. No other reason.

A 12-15 goal season from either of those two would elevate them up the rankings significantly. It doesn't make a huge different to United though, as we don't rely on goals from that area. Not to say that 12 goals from a midfielder wouldn't be a very welcome addition though, but I think Ferguson views our midfield as a base to provide rather than an end product in itself.
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That's bullshit, Iniesta has never scored 10 or more goals in a season and Xavi has only done it once, and they finished 2nd and 3rd in the Ballon d'Or. Sneijder has never scored 10 goals for Real Madrid or Inter and he is similarly ranked as one of the best midfielders in the world. Mascherano has never scored more than one goal in a season and he's considered one of the best DMs in world football. Xabi Alonso has never scored more than 5 and he's also ranked as one of the best midfielders in the world.

There are plenty of big name central midfielders who are not 12 goal a season players, who also don't play in a team where the central midfielders are expected to score a lot of goals. They are rated as the best in the world, whereas the 'world class' Carrick and Fletcher are not, I can't understand why that would be.
 
Bilbo said:
This is correct. We've had better midfields in the last ten years, and we'll have better in the next ten years, but you don't win PL titles and reach CL finals consistently with fodder in the middle of the pitch.

Saying we need strengthening is fair enough. I think some people (and I'm in that camp) take issue with this viewpoint that these players are worse than they actually are.
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I don't think that's really what we're saying. Fletcher and Carrick are good players but they're not world beaters. Giggs is 37 and Anderson has yet to prove himself despite being here 4 years. That is basically our central midfield right now with Hargreaves & Scholes gone, and Gibson probably off too. All this talk that Jones will play midfield is pure hope rather than anything else because he's not ready to do so yet by any means.

So yes, it's a weak midfield, maybe not the players in it themselves, but the fact that there's noone properly brilliant in it and there's only 4 players actually available.
 
Jones bought to play a DM role man marking Messi in the next 3 CL finals. We don't need a CM. You heard it here first.
 
Yes, I reckon we're done. Don't reckon we'll get Nasri, Sneijder or Modric, and that Sir Alex will do with what he has instead of buying someone else.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Yes, I reckon we're done. Don't reckon we'll get Nasri, Sneijder or Modric, and that Sir Alex will do with what he has instead of buying someone else.
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So SAF won't improve his first team from last season? despite our away form and the fact that Chelsea and shitty will buy big?

That's not even mentioning Barca.
 
Sharky7 said:
So SAF won't improve his first team from last season? despite our away form and the fact that Chelsea and shitty will buy big?

That's not even mentioning Barca.
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There are many ways to improve.

That's probably why they are training every day.

If Sir Alex can get one of the three mentioned for what he deems reasonable money, he will buy one of them.

Who can improve us?
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Who can improve us?
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About a dozen or so midfielders around the world certainly can.


If we start the season without strengthening our first 11 then we'll get smashed again if we come up against Barca and we'll have a very VERY difficult time in the league. Last year our away form was shocking, we won't get away with it again, Chelsea will be much stronger I'm sure.
 
It's not just about goals, it's about all-round play. Fletcher and Carrick are fine - for the same role. Playing them together leaves the team totally clueless in terms of creativity. The question is who plays against them. Giggs can only do that once a weak, which would leave us asking a big jump from Anderson. I'm not sure I'm willing to put all the eggs in the Anderson basket. We need another player who can hold the ball comfortably and pass it.

We got smashed in midfield by pretty poor opposition last season. Now Scholes and gone and Giggs is a year older. Yes, there is some upside to the midfielders we have, Anderson especially, Fletcher discovering his form again. But it's not enough to base our midfield of 2011/12 on similar players who have not done anywhere near well enough the previous season. It's been too much of a problem just to expect it to go away.
 
I reckon City will be a lot tougher too. Which further adds concern to what Sharky7 wrote.
 
Sharky7 said:
About a dozen or so midfielders around the world certainly can.


If we start the season without strengthening our first 11 then we'll get smashed again if we come up against Barca and we'll have a very VERY difficult time in the league. Last year our away form was shocking, we won't get away with it again, Chelsea will be much stronger I'm sure.
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Are those dozen midfielders available?

I'd be very surprised if we, with the current squad, are not competing for the title come next May.

As for Barca, unless we buy Messi, Iniesta and Xavi, we'll struggle to match them whoever we buy.
 
Personally, I think Sir Alex has landed a player he didn't expect to land this summer; Jones.

And I think he will match him in midfield quite a lot. He's not not going to give Jones a decent amount of games, which he is unlikely to get as a centrehalf - unless there is long term injuries to a couple of the centrehalves.

Hence I reckon, unless Sir Alex manages to get one of his preferred midfield targets, he will go with what he has.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
As long as the player is still doing the business, doesn't matter if he is above 35.
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It matters. Because age could suddenly catch up with him like it did Scholes last season, leaving us screwed. I don't believe SAF will take such a risk. I can't' see us not adding an attack minded midfielder. Especially when SAF admitted there is one he wanted in January that he couldn't get then.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
It matters. Becasue age could suddenly catch up with him like it did Scholes last season, leaving us screwed. I don't believe SAF will take such a risk. I can't' see us not adding an attack minded midfielder. Especially when SAF admitted there is one he wanted in January that he couldn't get then.
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Age didn't suddenly catch up with Scholes, it's happened over the last few years.

Sir Alex will rather wait and go with what he wants instead of buying for the sake of, if he can't get his targets.

I thought the player in January was Young. He's not currently available...
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Age didn't suddenly catch up with Scholes, it's happened over the last few years.
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Last season there was a dramatic drop. What saved us is we had Giggs.


CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Sir Alex will rather wait and go with what he wants instead of buying for the sake of, if he can't get his targets.
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No one believes SAF will buy for the sake of it. We just believe he will strengthen his midfield. We can't see him losing 3 midfielders and not bring in at least 1 new face.

CnutOfAllCnuts said:
I thought the player in January was Young. He's not currently available...
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Young has never been a central midfielder. I'm certain it wasn't him.
 
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